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Dumus	Posted - 2006.07.14 08:08:00 - [1] Just remove it from the game completly. It sucks. /emote whine and gnashing of teeth. Yes I just lost a HAC to 4 pilots wielding ECM as thier primary weapon and I did'nt like it.
Great Artista	Posted - 2006.07.14 08:35:00 - [2] Thats why there is no point flying anything expensive, 3x cruisers can take out hac, if 2 of them are blackbirds ------------- ½Artista - One name. One legend.+ -Sloganizer.net
Samirol	Posted - 2006.07.14 08:43:00 - [3] fit extra warp scra... wait a sec... ecm sucks when it is being used against you Originally by: Tekka Originally by: ISD "Can I have your stuff?" isn't constructive neither is 95% of the internet
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.07.14 08:46:00 - [4] I think target jamming should only be possible on special EW ships. Right now you have about 40-50% chance to jam a cruiser for almost 30 seconds (jam + relock) using a single multispectral. Its overpowered and stupid. What Hac do you use Dumus? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Dumus	Posted - 2006.07.14 09:01:00 - [5] My first post was a bit of a joke TBH. I was just venting steam But there is a serious point to be made. I hate the whole ECM thing mostly because there is no real counter for it. I tried out those eccm thingermebob wotsits and it gave something like 28 points strength. (stronger than a BS!) Mellarinn tried jamming me with 2 multi specs and perma jammed me. So we tried it with just one, and guess what, jammed me 8 times out of 10! It blows because there is no counter that works. In PVP it is the same as handcuffing someone hands behind their back, tyeing one of there legs to the handcuffs and repeatedly punching them in the face. Anyone who has been beaten by ECM knows my pain. I can take being beaten, its why I PVP. I love the rush of it, but being battered and beaten and not being able to do squat but get my Pod ready for the bang 'n' warp make me cry I hate it TBH and think it would improve PvP more than any other nerf. P.S. I was in my SAC
Niivvy	Posted - 2006.07.14 09:06:00 - [6] / signed i agree eve is turning into not who ha the best ship or the busr skills. its who can jam who first, target jammers are lame and warp jammers are lame there all lame i have the skills but dont use em cos i aint lame..... come on ccp de-bork pvp make it fun again [url="http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.07.14 09:08:00 - [7] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 14/07/2006 09:16:01 Originally by: Dumus My first post was a bit of a joke TBH. I was just venting steam But there is a serious point to be made. I hate the whole ECM thing mostly because there is no real counter for it. I tried out those eccm thingermebob wotsits and it gave something like 28 points strength. (stronger than a BS!) Mellarinn tried jamming me with 2 multi specs and perma jammed me. So we tried it with just one, and guess what, jammed me 8 times out of 10! It blows because there is no counter that works. In PVP it is the same as handcuffing someone hands behind their back, tyeing one of there legs to the handcuffs and repeatedly punching them in the face. Anyone who has been beaten by ECM knows my pain. I can take being beaten, its why I PVP. I love the rush of it, but being battered and beaten and not being able to do squat but get my Pod ready for the bang 'n' warp make me cry I hate it TBH and think it would improve PvP more than any other nerf. P.S. I was in my SAC Target jamming is what sucks the most. There really should be better modules to prevent it, not to mention the chance of jamming seems bugged... We might not need another thread on it, but i get annoyed just hearing about people losing ships to this crap. Every 20 seconds you have 40-50% chance of disabling the enemy ship if you are in a cruiser and trying to jam another cruiser. If the jam succeeds, you almost always win the fight. Even if the jam fails, after 20 seconds, you get a new chance. The whole thing just gets me annoyed. Its just wrong. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Dumus	Posted - 2006.07.14 09:16:00 - [8] Sorry Jim I meant Jammers. Warp scrams webbers etc I am fine with. It just those 'stop you fighting back' mods I hate.
Jack Z	Posted - 2006.07.14 09:20:00 - [9] Originally by: Dumus Just remove it from the game completly. It sucks. /signed simply lost too many ships to jammers.../me hates jammers ---------------------------------- Jack Z. CEO of Free Arms
Merdaneth	Posted - 2006.07.14 09:24:00 - [10] Originally by: Dumus Sorry Jim I meant Jammers. Warp scrams webbers etc I am fine with. It just those 'stop you fighting back' mods I hate. That's what really a core problem with ECM, no so much 'unbalanced' but more 'unfun'. Games (certainly games with RP elements) are supposed to empower those who play, ECM is nothing short of a severe virtual castration. It makes you feel that nothing what you do matters. That's the problem.
Crumplecorn	Posted - 2006.07.14 09:30:00 - [11] Make it work like WCS. Too few points of ECM on them and nothing happens at all, and give all decent ships enough points that it takes a dedicated ship (or more depending on size) to actually jam them. ---------- Always Up To SomethingÖ One of us is really thick, and I hope its you - Kalaan Oratay
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.07.14 09:34:00 - [12] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 14/07/2006 09:39:46 Originally by: Crumplecorn Make it work like WCS. Too few points of ECM on them and nothing happens at all, and give all decent ships enough points that it takes a dedicated ship (or more depending on size) to actually jam them. It used to work that way in the beginning. There was no chance involved at all. If your jammers combined strength were higher than the ships, you would jam. I think jamming should be possible only on blackbird/scorpion and other EW ships. Perhaps recons as well. Just not all ships. Just like all ships in the military is not capable of electronic warfare. I get the argument that "Eve should be free and without limits... dont tell us what to fit" when i say that though. But I personally think its ruining otherwise good fights, and also means people blob even more. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Yolan	Posted - 2006.07.14 09:36:00 - [13] I disagree the ECM should be removed from the game as it adds a huge tactical element especially in fleet engagements. However I do beleive it should be restricted to the specialist ew ships, and those ew ships should be support craft and not able to solo gank. It could be done along similar lines to the cov ops cloak which can only be fitted to cov ops ships. They could make jammers and sens damps only able to be fitted to specialist ew ships. This will force people to setup their gangs tactically and would remove the frig gangs all with a sens damp/jammer fitted to each one.
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.07.14 09:39:00 - [14] /me wouldnt say ECM is totally broken and neither would I say ECM is working perfectly. But when you jam, you cant tackle, can you? When you solo vs 3-5 people, you dont expect to live, do you? ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.07.14 09:42:00 - [15] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire /me wouldnt say ECM is totally broken and neither would I say ECM is working perfectly. But when you jam, you cant tackle, can you? When you solo vs 3-5 people, you dont expect to live, do you? The problem with target jamming is that you dont need the gang to win. You need a multispectral. Thats it. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Infrared Raven	Posted - 2006.07.14 09:43:00 - [16] Originally by: Dumus Just remove it from the game completly. It sucks. /emote whine and gnashing of teeth. Yes I just lost a HAC to 4 pilots wielding ECM as thier primary weapon and I did'nt like it. not remove it from game, but limit it to special ships, ie EW-Slots. Scorp would have 8 EW-Slots...
Jenny Spitfire	Posted - 2006.07.14 11:02:00 - [17] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 14/07/2006 11:02:22 Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Jenny Spitfire /me wouldnt say ECM is totally broken and neither would I say ECM is working perfectly. But when you jam, you cant tackle, can you? When you solo vs 3-5 people, you dont expect to live, do you? The problem with target jamming is that you dont need the gang to win. You need a multispectral. Thats it. You put one multi and pray for luck. In the meantime, you can either web or scram. Not everyone armour tank, you know... ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Wanoah	Posted - 2006.07.14 11:10:00 - [18] You know, I cautiously welcomed the chance-based stuff when it came in, but now I think I preferred it the way it was. Some magical, invisible roll of the dice that decides whether you live or die is just *******s really and it leaves you feeling cheated. Equally, when you are the jammer rather than the 'jammee' and you see all of your jamming attempts fail for absolutely no reason it leaves you feeling cheated. What is the point of having sensor strengths and racial types etc if it just boils down to a percentage? No, if a ship has 28 points of LADAR strength, I should be able to fit the appropriate jammers to jam 28+ points of LADAR and it should just work.
Sean Dillon	Posted - 2006.07.14 11:17:00 - [19] If u can't beat them join them.
Antaris Xenal	Posted - 2006.07.14 11:19:00 - [20] I just gotta agree with the op here, sorry if anyone disagrees. Jamming is bull**** and should be nerfed. 'nuff said. (along with stabs and escrow scams)
Lord WarATron	Posted - 2006.07.14 11:24:00 - [21] The issue with ecm would be far far better it it effected the enemy's chance to hit, rather than force-break their lock on you. The Current system is that some recon pilot get in the middle of a 30man gang and activates ecm burst to disable most of them in a swoop :) --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Slirtdan Uheran	Posted - 2006.07.14 11:31:00 - [22] Backup arrays. Or you do not wish to scratch your tanking or damage? 5.79 a hypnos multispec with lvl 4 signal dispersion means 20-30% jamming a HAC without a backup array. Place one and feel good.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.07.14 11:34:00 - [23] Originally by: Slirtdan Uheran Backup arrays. Or you do not wish to scratch your tanking or damage? 5.79 a hypnos multispec with lvl 4 signal dispersion means 20-30% jamming a HAC without a backup array. Place one and feel good. Thats the medslot version that cuts the chance to get jammed in half. I would much rather put a multispectral in that medslot and maybe jam the other guy first. System is fubar. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Antaris Xenal	Posted - 2006.07.14 11:35:00 - [24] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Slirtdan Uheran Backup arrays. Or you do not wish to scratch your tanking or damage? 5.79 a hypnos multispec with lvl 4 signal dispersion means 20-30% jamming a HAC without a backup array. Place one and feel good. System is fubar. QFT!
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.14 11:39:00 - [25] Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 14/07/2006 11:39:13 Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Slirtdan Uheran Backup arrays. Or you do not wish to scratch your tanking or damage? 5.79 a hypnos multispec with lvl 4 signal dispersion means 20-30% jamming a HAC without a backup array. Place one and feel good. Thats the medslot version that cuts the chance to get jammed in half. I would much rather put a multispectral in that medslot and maybe jam the other guy first. System is fubar. Hmmm... may be the system isnt bad afterall. If WCS can be made chance based on activation. :O Also those Backup Arrays and ECCM midslot anti-jam arrays can be fixed so when it is used and we get jammed, there will be a minimum amount of target lock remaining instead of losing everything. ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Locke DieDrake Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.07.14 11:41:00 - [26] The funny part is, if you don't have a bunch of LVL4 or 5 skills ECM is worthless. And if you do, you jam more often than not. I know a pilot that just purchased a rook and refuses to fly it until he has the right skills. Mind you this guy runs T2 multi's on his scorp. ECM is strong, when you have the skills for it. It's relatively easy to defeat if you don't. Of if you fit backup arrays. Or if you use ECM first. Or if you have a rifter with ECM bursts on it. Or.... yeah, so the list goes on. Let me ask you something. How often does your HAC take out three cruisers in an engagement? Pretty often right? So... whats the counter to that? Skill up and get a HAC? Do you appreciate irony? ___________________________________________ The deeper you stick it in your vein, the deeper the thoughts there's no more pain. ___________________________________________
Keta Min Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2006.07.14 11:42:00 - [27] yep ecm needs to be changed. the current state just sucks.
Infinity Ziona Funshine Bears	Posted - 2006.07.14 11:46:00 - [28] Might be better if being jammed just caused your offensive modules to be much less effective. That way if you were jammed you could still counter jam back just not as effectively, you could also still fire back less effectively and have the semblence of still actually playing rather then spectating the destruction of your ship.
Slirtdan Uheran Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.14 11:48:00 - [29] Edited by: Slirtdan Uheran on 14/07/2006 11:48:53 As i remember backup arrays are low slot, not med slot. So please take off your WCS from your HAC and place backup arrays.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.14 11:52:00 - [30] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Edited by: Jenny Spitfire on 14/07/2006 11:39:13 Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Slirtdan Uheran Backup arrays. Or you do not wish to scratch your tanking or damage? 5.79 a hypnos multispec with lvl 4 signal dispersion means 20-30% jamming a HAC without a backup array. Place one and feel good. Thats the medslot version that cuts the chance to get jammed in half. I would much rather put a multispectral in that medslot and maybe jam the other guy first. System is fubar. Hmmm... may be the system isnt bad afterall. If WCS can be made chance based on activation. :O Also those Backup Arrays and ECCM midslot anti-jam arrays can be fixed so when it is used and we get jammed, there will be a minimum amount of target lock remaining instead of losing everything. Even more dices deciding fate? If I believed in luck over skill, I would play the lotto. But ok, for the sake of argument, if warp scramblers/jammers/all EW was chance based, then it would be pretty annoying to play this game. Most of the important decisions that would affect life or death would be made randomly by the server. The best players wouldnt be the best, they would just be the luckiest. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate

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