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Sky Hunter Rage and Terror	Posted - 2006.07.15 00:02:00 - [31] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: Double TaP Originally by: DarKDruG imo, i wonder why you even train for a command ship if not for the use of gang modules and fleet combat. To each his own i guess... It's because in a gang, a field command ship (well except for the nighthawk which sucks) will kick serious ass. But for solo pvp most HACs are great. Especially the deimos and ishtar draggy. And they can take down t1 battlecruisers pretty well most of the time noobhunter. Would not engage battleships though. sure any skilled bc pilot will eat deimos alive my point i that for 1x1 pvp only ship is vaga and that hacs are so overpriced, tbh comand ships cost les so if i will need to select take hac or command ship i will take coomand one and even that 1x1 pvp is so dead mostly posible i end ganked ... easier yet, a HAC is less forgiving for mistakes done in it. yeah they do cost alot, i myself would really like them go back onto 120-140mil plank where they still not easy to get, but 220mil? -=-
wierchas noobhunter Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.15 00:09:00 - [32] Originally by: Sky Hunter Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: Double TaP Originally by: DarKDruG imo, i wonder why you even train for a command ship if not for the use of gang modules and fleet combat. To each his own i guess... It's because in a gang, a field command ship (well except for the nighthawk which sucks) will kick serious ass. But for solo pvp most HACs are great. Especially the deimos and ishtar draggy. And they can take down t1 battlecruisers pretty well most of the time noobhunter. Would not engage battleships though. sure any skilled bc pilot will eat deimos alive my point i that for 1x1 pvp only ship is vaga and that hacs are so overpriced, tbh comand ships cost les so if i will need to select take hac or command ship i will take coomand one and even that 1x1 pvp is so dead mostly posible i end ganked ... easier yet, a HAC is less forgiving for mistakes done in it. yeah they do cost alot, i myself would really like them go back onto 120-140mil plank where they still not easy to get, but 220mil? problem is that most time when i loss ships or any other pilot o it its when u are baited into trap its not abaut your agility or ships speed ( well not for vaga ) tbh in deimos u will not run away from interceptor, and if u dont kill or nos him then les in 30 sec gang will jump and own your ass or u will end jumpind on gate camp ... tbh triing to solo in hac is way to expensive .. ( i am triing to spell corectly sry guys i am realy drunk ) join col ! now
Cruz eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.07.15 04:23:00 - [33] Originally by: Sky Hunter T2 BC doesnt stand a chance against high skill and exprience close-range BS setup. Will be brought to complete lock-down and then shot no matter how hard his tank is. T2 BC solo - asking to get ganked. Having less agility, being alot easier to chase and kill, having slower lock and not being able to catch small stuff that HAC can. Astarte does more dps then close range BSs.... And has roughly the same armor/better tank... Absolution farts 600dps while being capable of tanking 600dps on its own with just t2 gear. Dunno about the other ships. --------------------------- For the glory of the empire!
kessah Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.15 04:37:00 - [34] Originally by: Sky Hunter T2 BC doesnt stand a chance against high skill and exprience close-range BS setup. Will be brought to complete lock-down and then shot no matter how hard his tank is. T2 BC solo - asking to get ganked. Having less agility, being alot easier to chase and kill, having slower lock and not being able to catch small stuff that HAC can. as for HACs in particular..they arent fragile at all, just you need to get used to them. Ofc youll loose a few before youll start getting good. Normally i would agree, but arguably a BS will be brought down by an experienced T2 BC pilot. Those things have the same lows, meds and same highs with better resistances and 4 bonuses than a battleship. Effectivly the battleship Should die. All circumstancial tho. -------------------------------------------------------- Forever Pirate
Nemain Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.15 04:57:00 - [35] I can't really speak for comparing the gally and min HACS and command ships (I fly the HACS not the BC), but if the amarr ones are anything to go by, I find the HAC (zealot in this case) to be more survivable (due to much better speed and agility and more easily sustaiable tank) than the CS (Absolution). The low speed, bigger sig and harder to sustain tank (seems odd to me that I can tank a zealot on 1 l large peroxide battery, but need a couple of Cap relays as well on the AB) seem to out weigh the better resists and damage. If I were you i'd swallow my pride and go for the vaga, after you have flown it a while u will soon change your mind. Well thats my view anyway. I wish most domi and vaga pilots wouldn't fly them due to their looks as it would make my life easier, and save me isk on zealot replacements :)
Cruz eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.07.15 05:18:00 - [36] Originally by: Nemain I can't really speak for comparing the gally and min HACS and command ships (I fly the HACS not the BC), but if the amarr ones are anything to go by, I find the HAC (zealot in this case) to be more survivable (due to much better speed and agility and more easily sustaiable tank) than the CS (Absolution). The low speed, bigger sig and harder to sustain tank (seems odd to me that I can tank a zealot on 1 l large peroxide battery, but need a couple of Cap relays as well on the AB) seem to out weigh the better resists and damage. If I were you i'd swallow my pride and go for the vaga, after you have flown it a while u will soon change your mind. Well thats my view anyway. I wish most domi and vaga pilots wouldn't fly them due to their looks as it would make my life easier, and save me isk on zealot replacements :) rofl large cap battery to tank, thats classic. --------------------------- For the glory of the empire!
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.07.15 06:50:00 - [37] Originally by: kessah Normally i would agree, but arguably a BS will be brought down by an experienced T2 BC pilot. Those things have the same lows, meds and same highs with better resistances and 4 bonuses than a battleship. Effectivly the battleship Should die. All circumstancial tho. No matter how buffed it is, a medium repairer is still a medium repairer and your cap is still 1/3 to 1/2 what the battleship has. And battleships have more slots - Eos has 10 med+lows, Dominix 12, Astarte has 10 meds+lows, Megathron 11 - this is similar all the way around. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Sky Hunter Rage and Terror	Posted - 2006.07.15 11:49:00 - [38] Edited by: Sky Hunter on 15/07/2006 11:50:05 Originally by: Cruz Originally by: Sky Hunter T2 BC doesnt stand a chance against high skill and exprience close-range BS setup. Will be brought to complete lock-down and then shot no matter how hard his tank is. T2 BC solo - asking to get ganked. Having less agility, being alot easier to chase and kill, having slower lock and not being able to catch small stuff that HAC can. Astarte does more dps then close range BSs.... And has roughly the same armor/better tank... Absolution farts 600dps while being capable of tanking 600dps on its own with just t2 gear. Dunno about the other ships. note the word 'lockdown'. you cant lock, you cant move. I had engagement with Astarte in Tempest, it ran with wcs from me after he has been brought to a complete 'stand still ready to die'. I dont care about it DPS or tank....just if he havent got any reinforcements, he will go down. Its just matter of who you run into. You might run into the BS you kill in a few secs, or might run into one that will make you cry when you wont be able to use your sheer dps. and btw, Tempest does pump out 600 dps close range. p.s. even with less agility T2 BC still alot easier to catch in hostile space. edit: even fleet command ships got lower resistas then HAC class, btw. -=-
Dragy	Posted - 2006.07.15 11:50:00 - [39] So to sum up. If you want to solo and get in a hac it needs to be a vaga, otherwise you'll be ganked or defeated by well setuped bc. But if you get in a CS you can defeat almost everything BUT cause of agility and speed you'll be ganked. Oh damn
Nemain Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.15 14:44:00 - [40] Originally by: Cruz Originally by: Nemain I can't really speak for comparing the gally and min HACS and command ships (I fly the HACS not the BC), but if the amarr ones are anything to go by, I find the HAC (zealot in this case) to be more survivable (due to much better speed and agility and more easily sustaiable tank) than the CS (Absolution). The low speed, bigger sig and harder to sustain tank (seems odd to me that I can tank a zealot on 1 l large peroxide battery, but need a couple of Cap relays as well on the AB) seem to out weigh the better resists and damage. If I were you i'd swallow my pride and go for the vaga, after you have flown it a while u will soon change your mind. Well thats my view anyway. I wish most domi and vaga pilots wouldn't fly them due to their looks as it would make my life easier, and save me isk on zealot replacements :) rofl large cap battery to tank, thats classic. Oi, don't knock it, it works very well . Large peroxide batteries work very well on cruisers if you can fit it and spare a mid. It frees up the lows for all tank and damage mods. It works especially well in pve. Admitedly in pvp the mid could be used for a scrambler in the case of the zealot, but if someone eles is tackling it can be an asset. Not only does it mean you can fit a non compromised damge tank setup (no cap relays or the like) but it can be a helpfull nos buffer if u get caught off guard. It runs very well on my vanilla zealot setup - 4 focused medium pulse II, 10mn AB II, Fleeting web, Large Peroxide Battery, medium armour rep II, EANM II, Thermal ENM II, Internal Forcefield DC, 3x HS II. Guns and Rep and AB and rep run 23/7 and all 3 can last for around 5+ mins with little problem. Ok maybe not everyones ideal setup but it fit my niche

Double TaP The Establishment	Posted - 2006.07.15 14:47:00 - [41] Originally by: Dragy So to sum up. If you want to solo and get in a hac it needs to be a vaga, otherwise you'll be ganked or defeated by well setuped bc. But if you get in a CS you can defeat almost everything BUT cause of agility and speed you'll be ganked. Oh damn No. Damn it, dont listen to the nubs. A deimos and ishtar work great for solo pvp.
Sky Hunter Rage and Terror	Posted - 2006.07.15 14:55:00 - [42] Originally by: Double TaP Originally by: Dragy So to sum up. If you want to solo and get in a hac it needs to be a vaga, otherwise you'll be ganked or defeated by well setuped bc. But if you get in a CS you can defeat almost everything BUT cause of agility and speed you'll be ganked. Oh damn No. Damn it, dont listen to the nubs. A deimos and ishtar work great for solo pvp. Noone said they arent. Id love to have Ishtar alt p.s. As for others who been judging all ships by their DPS....thats just...sad...DPS is just one of stats, and not even the most important one. Never think One ship > Another ship just because of how much DPS it can give out or how much DPS it can tank. -=-
Jerick Ludhowe Arcana Imperii Ltd. Verisum Family	Posted - 2006.07.15 14:58:00 - [43] Edited by: Jerick Ludhowe on 15/07/2006 14:58:38 Originally by: Sky Hunter edit: even fleet command ships got lower resistas then HAC class, btw. Way to be completely wrong. http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/ships/default.asp
Contralto Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.15 16:16:00 - [44] Edited by: Contralto on 15/07/2006 16:17:38 nm
Nemain Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.15 16:21:00 - [45] Edited by: Nemain on 15/07/2006 16:22:00 Originally by: Contralto Originally by: Benglada Edited by: Benglada on 14/07/2006 23:55:03 wierchas please learn to spell. For all that is holy, learn to spell! Not everyone in the world is a native english speaker!! Spelling should not be an issue on international forums. Yeah you tell him, english is my first and only language (does talking balls count) and even with an english A level (wahay got an A all the way back when that counted for about 85%+ not the ****y 45%+ they give them out for these days, man I feel old, I can remember eve when it was all fields) my spelling can be pretty dire Edited for spelling mistakes
Sky Hunter Rage and Terror	Posted - 2006.07.15 16:26:00 - [46] Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe Edited by: Jerick Ludhowe on 15/07/2006 14:58:38 Originally by: Sky Hunter edit: even fleet command ships got lower resistas then HAC class, btw. Way to be completely wrong. http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/ships/default.asp Claymore got 5% more shield Em resist then Vagabond got..ok fine, its higher..what about field ones? -=-
Aramendel	Posted - 2006.07.15 17:16:00 - [47] Edited by: Aramendel on 15/07/2006 17:15:56 Originally by: Sky Hunter Claymore got 5% more shield Em resist then Vagabond got..ok fine, its higher..what about field ones? Firstly, Claymore and Vagabound have exactly the same resistances. Just as every HAC vs the same races fleet command ship. As shown in that link btw. Secondly, yes, field commands have lower resistances. But considering you said even fleet command ships got lower resistas then HAC class, btw. that does not matter, you are still completely wrong.
Sky Hunter Rage and Terror	Posted - 2006.07.15 20:22:00 - [48] Originally by: Aramendel Edited by: Aramendel on 15/07/2006 17:15:56 Originally by: Sky Hunter Claymore got 5% more shield Em resist then Vagabond got..ok fine, its higher..what about field ones? Firstly, Claymore and Vagabound have exactly the same resistances. Just as every HAC vs the same races fleet command ship. As shown in that link btw. Secondly, yes, field commands have lower resistances. But considering you said even fleet command ships got lower resistas then HAC class, btw. that does not matter, you are still completely wrong. yup, i said im, i messed up thinking that both BCs got same resists. now shud i go jump off my chair for being wrong? -=-
Imhotep Khem Vortex.	Posted - 2006.07.16 02:34:00 - [49] Originally by: Cruz Originally by: Sky Hunter T2 BC doesnt stand a chance against high skill and exprience close-range BS setup. Will be brought to complete lock-down and then shot no matter how hard his tank is. T2 BC solo - asking to get ganked. Having less agility, being alot easier to chase and kill, having slower lock and not being able to catch small stuff that HAC can. Astarte does more dps then close range BSs.... And has roughly the same armor/better tank... Absolution farts 600dps while being capable of tanking 600dps on its own with just t2 gear. Dunno about the other ships. Sleipnir can mount a helluva cap-light tank. Main advantage BS gets is nosfaratu, and that is not so effective vs. an injecting Sleipnir. My money is on the Sleipnir. And whats with this lockdown? BC is fat as it is, its not really avoiding any shots, its resisting them. ____ "If your not dyin' your not tryin'." "Are you prepared to go all the way, Alexi?" DuGalle
Ghoest	Posted - 2006.07.16 05:25:00 - [50] Edited by: Ghoest on 16/07/2006 05:25:47 Id like to see a close range BS take on a tanked Vulture packing blasters. Wherever you went - here you are.

lestradd Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.16 07:49:00 - [51] Edited by: lestradd on 16/07/2006 07:50:51 Originally by: Double TaP Originally by: DarKDruG imo, i wonder why you even train for a command ship if not for the use of gang modules and fleet combat. To each his own i guess... It's because in a gang, a field command ship (well except for the nighthawk which sucks) will kick serious ass. But for solo pvp most HACs are great. Especially the deimos and ishtar draggy. And they can take down t1 battlecruisers pretty well most of the time noobhunter. Would not engage battleships though. Can somebody explain what is wrong with the Nighthawk, so i don't make a mistake that would be a big waste of time.
Shoele Lialos	Posted - 2006.07.16 13:05:00 - [52] I suspect that anything an Ishtar can kill or tank, an Eos can do it better.
Jerick Ludhowe Arcana Imperii Ltd. Verisum Family	Posted - 2006.07.16 14:29:00 - [53] Originally by: Ghoest Edited by: Ghoest on 16/07/2006 05:25:47 Id like to see a close range BS take on a tanked Vulture packing blasters. I really doubt that the Vulture will be able to break a good close range BS tank even with blasters.
Ishmael Hansen	Posted - 2006.07.16 14:42:00 - [54] FIX the NH plz
Ghoest	Posted - 2006.07.16 14:44:00 - [55] But could the BS break the Vultures tank any better? PS: The NightHawk sucks because its DPS is crap. All its good for is shooting frig and destroyer classes, but its a big slow tank. Its a silly combo. Wherever you went - here you are.
Sky Hunter Rage and Terror	Posted - 2006.07.16 14:59:00 - [56] Originally by: Imhotep Khem Originally by: Cruz Originally by: Sky Hunter T2 BC doesnt stand a chance against high skill and exprience close-range BS setup. Will be brought to complete lock-down and then shot no matter how hard his tank is. T2 BC solo - asking to get ganked. Having less agility, being alot easier to chase and kill, having slower lock and not being able to catch small stuff that HAC can. Astarte does more dps then close range BSs.... And has roughly the same armor/better tank... Absolution farts 600dps while being capable of tanking 600dps on its own with just t2 gear. Dunno about the other ships. Sleipnir can mount a helluva cap-light tank. Main advantage BS gets is nosfaratu, and that is not so effective vs. an injecting Sleipnir. My money is on the Sleipnir. And whats with this lockdown? BC is fat as it is, its not really avoiding any shots, its resisting them. lock down means no lock, no moving, no cap. even with cap you wont tank forever if you cant lock your opponent. -=-
Cruz eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.07.16 15:50:00 - [57] Originally by: Sky Hunter Originally by: Imhotep Khem Originally by: Cruz Originally by: Sky Hunter T2 BC doesnt stand a chance against high skill and exprience close-range BS setup. Will be brought to complete lock-down and then shot no matter how hard his tank is. T2 BC solo - asking to get ganked. Having less agility, being alot easier to chase and kill, having slower lock and not being able to catch small stuff that HAC can. Astarte does more dps then close range BSs.... And has roughly the same armor/better tank... Absolution farts 600dps while being capable of tanking 600dps on its own with just t2 gear. Dunno about the other ships. Sleipnir can mount a helluva cap-light tank. Main advantage BS gets is nosfaratu, and that is not so effective vs. an injecting Sleipnir. My money is on the Sleipnir. And whats with this lockdown? BC is fat as it is, its not really avoiding any shots, its resisting them. lock down means no lock, no moving, no cap. even with cap you wont tank forever if you cant lock your opponent. Yes because every ship fits ECM And with cap yes you will tank forever in a command ship --------------------------- For the glory of the empire!
Sky Hunter Rage and Terror	Posted - 2006.07.16 18:55:00 - [58] Nothing can tank 'forever'. Like i said, given that BS pilot has good expirience, sp, fitting he will win in most cases in close-range BS with full fledged T2 pack. -=-
Ross Ice Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.17 01:31:00 - [59] Originally by: Dragy So would a deimos be better for solo than astarte ? No. Astarte has 4 mids and deimos 3, with a blaster fitting you need MWD, injector, web, scram.. that makes 4 mids, with the deimos usually you leave out the injector, which is a very important toy for blasterboats. Another point is the bonus', deimos has the useless MWD bonus (still -6% to cap, so not really a bonus) while astarte has the rep bonus, which is really a blessing. As a final note the only reason you would choose a HAC is cause of the speed and agility but the deimos is slower than the thorax and slightly more agile than the astarte. Not to forget deimos is jammed much easier.


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