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O2 jayjay
Tres Corvi INC. Mordus Angels
13
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Posted - 2014.08.07 16:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
So a friend of mine was banned because he was accused of bot mining. Not a 30 day ban either but a full ban. I am trying to make sense of CCP logic. I know of several friends that were ganked or bombed by multi boxers. I have also seen plenty of people multi boxing incursions and are still playing to this day. I have seen an entire alliance report a multi boxer for weeks and nothing happen to that player. Multi boxing is against the rules and is suppose to be a ban-able offense. CCP doesn't reimburse the player because "it was done under normal game mechanics" which doesnt make any sense if the rules were broken. The point i am trying to make is there needs to be more consistency (conformity in the application of something, typically that which is necessary for the sake of logic, accuracy, or fairness) when the rules are broken. If you are going to allow multi boxer to break the rules then you need to allow bot-ing. if not then both need to be ban or the rules need to be re written. I dont know how many subscriber you have lost because of this but eve needs as many as possible. This inconsistency is showing favoritism to a certain game style and players which isn't right for other players. This is a problem that needs attention ASAP. |

xalongskam
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2014.08.07 16:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
O2 jayjay wrote:Multi boxing is against the rules and is suppose to be a ban-able offense.
Source? |

Paranoid Loyd
1193
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 16:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
O2 jayjay wrote:This is a problem that needs attention ASAP.
So you thought breaking more rules was the right solution? "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite |

CompleteFailure
DAWGS Corp.
183
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 16:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
O2 jayjay wrote:Multi boxing is against the rules and is suppose to be a ban-able offense.
No it's not. Botting is against the rules, and multiboxing is not botting. |

Jamagh
Grand Violations
252
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 16:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
xalongskam wrote:O2 jayjay wrote:Multi boxing is against the rules and is suppose to be a ban-able offense. Source?
This is what I thought when I read that line. CCP likes people to have multiple accounts. That means more money for them. They do take reports of people botting seriously. They investigate the claims, which sometimes can take weeks, and when they determine that the person is in violation... they drop the ban hammer. HARD. "Please stop reopening silly rumor threads."-á CCP Navigator. |

Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
5473
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 16:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
O2 jayjay wrote:I am trying to make sense of CCP logic "Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue." The Muppets: P+¦pc++rn (thanks Ria!) "So.. youre saying you cant create content.... because other people are out... creating content?" --United Arab Emirates |

O2 jayjay
Tres Corvi INC. Mordus Angels
13
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Posted - 2014.08.07 16:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
I guess i am the only one the Reads the EULA top to bottom |

Paranoid Loyd
1193
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 16:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
O2 jayjay wrote:I guess i am the only one the Reads the EULA top to bottom
Nope you are the one taking it a face value. "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite |

Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
5474
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 16:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
O2 jayjay wrote:I guess i am the only one the Reads the EULA top to bottom The EULA itself does not describe the rules by which CCP operates. They are rules that can be applied to you as CCP, a private company, sees fit. This isn't a country with a parliament and citizens, so stop acting like it's a civil rights issue. The Muppets: P+¦pc++rn (thanks Ria!) "So.. youre saying you cant create content.... because other people are out... creating content?" --United Arab Emirates |

O2 jayjay
Tres Corvi INC. Mordus Angels
13
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Posted - 2014.08.07 16:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.
Copy and paste from EULA |
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O2 jayjay
Tres Corvi INC. Mordus Angels
13
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Posted - 2014.08.07 16:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:O2 jayjay wrote:I guess i am the only one the Reads the EULA top to bottom The EULA itself does not describe the rules by which CCP operates. They are rules that can be applied to you as CCP, a private company, sees fit. This isn't a country with a parliament and citizens, so stop acting like it's a civil rights issue.
read OP Before posting. Then read other post about how CCP can keep more subscribers |

Toshiro Hasegawa
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
44
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Posted - 2014.08.07 16:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
I was under the impression there was no rule breaking with multiboxing - heard that from very reliable multi-boxers. :) History is the study of change. |

O2 jayjay
Tres Corvi INC. Mordus Angels
13
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Posted - 2014.08.07 16:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:O2 jayjay wrote:I guess i am the only one the Reads the EULA top to bottom Nope you are the one taking it a face value.
Exactly! so you are agree that there is no consistency. If the rules cannot be taken to face value and CCP will decide that one player can do this and its fine while a different player did the same exact thing and gets ban that is called favoritism. |

O2 jayjay
Tres Corvi INC. Mordus Angels
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 16:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
CompleteFailure wrote:O2 jayjay wrote:Multi boxing is against the rules and is suppose to be a ban-able offense. No it's not. Botting is against the rules, and multiboxing is not botting.
You should read the rules before posting. That was you dont look silly |

Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
5474
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 16:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
O2 jayjay wrote:You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.
Copy and paste from EULA
I decided to have this discussion earlier with Tippia, because I enjoy digging into semantics for no good reason whatsoever (and I suspect Tippia does too!). Anyway, this is her take on it, and maybe it should be stickied.
Quote:When you accept the EULA (which you do when you establish an account or at the latest when you log in for the first time), you get a licensed copy -- merely by accepting, the bit at the very start of the License section now applies to you "Subject to the terms of the EULA, CCP grants you a limited, non-exclusive, revocable license to use the Software". Congratulations, clicking the button means you have Gǣbought a licenseGǥ for all the intents of the EULAGǪ now you just have to cough up the cash for an account as well, which is a (very vaguely) separate requirement to play.
The rest about copies is just a left-over from when you got the game on DVDs and created accounts by entering the license number. For each DVD you bought, you could install the game twice and back up once. The other guy in the thread was right about one thing: CCP does not fully enforce their EULA, but he was wrong about which part wasn't enforced. Like you say, no-one cares about installed copies for an MMO since the code on the computer is useless without an account, so CCP does not give one whit about how many installs you have on how many computers from how many downloads. Since they don't care about installs, they also don't care about any shortcuts you take to save space GÇö you are supposed to launch each client from its own separate install, but why bother?
The restriction he claims GÇö one account only per computer GÇö is a misreading of that install limit. It says GÇ£you may install a copy of the Software on, and access the System from, a single computer [GǪ]. You must purchase a separate license to the Software for each additional Account you register [GǪ]. You may not use more than one Account with a single licensed copy of the Software.GÇ¥ He's essentially reading it backwards: the EULA dictates computers per copy, not copies per computer.
It does not say GÇ£you may only install a single copy on, and access the system from, a single computer [for each account]GÇ¥. Since they've given me the right to download and install, they would have to explicitly exclude the right to do it multiple times under certain circumstances, and they simply don't. The closest thing is the bit at the end, where each install is only really meant to be used with one account, but again, that just means you can use multiple installs (and you will have all the licenses required because otherwise you won't have enough accounts to use them all) on the same computer.
The Muppets: P+¦pc++rn (thanks Ria!) "So.. youre saying you cant create content.... because other people are out... creating content?" --United Arab Emirates |

Paranoid Loyd
1193
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 16:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
O2 jayjay wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:O2 jayjay wrote:I guess i am the only one the Reads the EULA top to bottom Nope you are the one taking it a face value. Exactly! so you are agree that there is no consistency. If the rules cannot be taken to face value and CCP will decide that one player can do this and its fine while a different player did the same exact thing and gets ban that is called favoritism.
Nope, that is called understanding it is not a black and white situation and making a case by case decision based on the evidence. "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite |

Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2513
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 16:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
I'm running 3 clients as I write this post. Can somebody report me, please! Eve Online Overview Wizard: Forum thread Homepage
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Malcolm Shinhwa
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
2772
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 16:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
While I sympathize and happen to think that tools like isboxer should be banned, CCP does not feel the same way and draw a clear distinction between multiboxing and botting. Your friend was botting, which is a no-no. Get isboxer, get fleet of miners, mine all you like and only visit your computer every 15min or so to do stuff. Its sickening, but its the rules. Thankfully there is also the New Order of Hisec, and their own set of rules to bring balance to hisec mining. If we're not supposed to shoot pods in hisec, why are they filled with meat? |

Notorious Fellon
Republic University Minmatar Republic
313
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 16:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
O2 jayjay wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:O2 jayjay wrote:I guess i am the only one the Reads the EULA top to bottom Nope you are the one taking it a face value. Exactly! so you are agree that there is no consistency. If the rules cannot be taken to face value and CCP will decide that one player can do this and its fine while a different player did the same exact thing and gets ban that is called favoritism.
Consistency is not the top priority in a for-profit company otherwise it would be labeled "for-consistency".
CCP has made it quite clear that not only is multi-boxing fine, users can even use key-sharing apps that fork commands into multiple windows of the game.
Consistency and logic are not considered important on this topic. |

O2 jayjay
Tres Corvi INC. Mordus Angels
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 16:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:O2 jayjay wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:O2 jayjay wrote:I guess i am the only one the Reads the EULA top to bottom Nope you are the one taking it a face value. Exactly! so you are agree that there is no consistency. If the rules cannot be taken to face value and CCP will decide that one player can do this and its fine while a different player did the same exact thing and gets ban that is called favoritism. Nope, that is called understanding it is not a black and white situation and making a case by case decision based on the evidence.
LOL sorry bro but the rules are clear. NO third party or homemade software. So if you are multi boxing using a third party software or are botting that is breaking the rules. Black and white with no room for argument. |
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Toshiro Hasegawa
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
44
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 16:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
O2 jayjay wrote:You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.
Copy and paste from EULA
might be getting into legalees .. but that doesnt say no multiboxing.
"patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items,... ... at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play" and "You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data" is not occuring when multiboxing.
Multiboxing is like running multiple accounts, which is legal. It just makes it easier to press, for example all the undock buttons at once. Now one could argue that speeds up ordinary game play .. but i do not think that was the intention of the part of text you copied, but rather a section on not fiddling with game code, or macros to dupe the game mechanics. Not even if that section is describing boting ... really seems more about hacking, duping or breaking existing code. The keys being "accelerated rate" and "not actually acquired or achieved in the Game".
History is the study of change. |

Paranoid Loyd
1193
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 16:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
O2 jayjay wrote:LOL sorry bro but the rules are clear. NO third party or homemade software. So if you are multi boxing using a third party software or are botting that is breaking the rules. Black and white with no room for argument.
The evidence seems to dictate otherwise. "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite |

Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2513
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 16:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:Get isboxer, get fleet of miners, mine all you like and only visit your computer every 15min or so to do stuff. Its sickening, but its the rules. Thankfully there is also the New Order of Hisec, and their own set of rules to bring balance to hisec mining.
Because bots are only mining and only in hisec  Eve Online Overview Wizard: Forum thread Homepage
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Notorious Fellon
Republic University Minmatar Republic
313
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 16:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
O2 jayjay wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:O2 jayjay wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:O2 jayjay wrote:I guess i am the only one the Reads the EULA top to bottom Nope you are the one taking it a face value. Exactly! so you are agree that there is no consistency. If the rules cannot be taken to face value and CCP will decide that one player can do this and its fine while a different player did the same exact thing and gets ban that is called favoritism. Nope, that is called understanding it is not a black and white situation and making a case by case decision based on the evidence. LOL sorry bro but the rules are clear. NO third party or homemade software. So if you are multi boxing using a third party software or are botting that is breaking the rules. Black and white with no room for argument.
CCP as reserved the right to interpret the rules they wrote.
Your interpretation is not only irrelevant, it is pointless to discuss.
CCP could actually declare that rule #1 in the Eula means "You may not ride an albino alpaca while mining". |

Barzai Mekhar
True Confusion
159
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 16:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
O2 jayjay wrote:You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.
Copy and paste from EULA
Copied, pasted, not understood, as usual.
It has been clarified that the "accelerated rate" phrase refers to a "per account" and not a "per player" comparison. When multi boxing each individual account will usually operate at slightly reduced efficiency. |

O2 jayjay
Tres Corvi INC. Mordus Angels
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 16:34:00 -
[26] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:O2 jayjay wrote:You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.
Copy and paste from EULA I decided to have this discussion earlier with Tippia, because I enjoy digging into semantics for no good reason whatsoever (and I suspect Tippia does too!). Anyway, this is her take on it, and maybe it should be stickied. Quote:When you accept the EULA (which you do when you establish an account or at the latest when you log in for the first time), you get a licensed copy -- merely by accepting, the bit at the very start of the License section now applies to you "Subject to the terms of the EULA, CCP grants you a limited, non-exclusive, revocable license to use the Software". Congratulations, clicking the button means you have Gǣbought a licenseGǥ for all the intents of the EULAGǪ now you just have to cough up the cash for an account as well, which is a (very vaguely) separate requirement to play.
The rest about copies is just a left-over from when you got the game on DVDs and created accounts by entering the license number. For each DVD you bought, you could install the game twice and back up once. The other guy in the thread was right about one thing: CCP does not fully enforce their EULA, but he was wrong about which part wasn't enforced. Like you say, no-one cares about installed copies for an MMO since the code on the computer is useless without an account, so CCP does not give one whit about how many installs you have on how many computers from how many downloads. Since they don't care about installs, they also don't care about any shortcuts you take to save space GÇö you are supposed to launch each client from its own separate install, but why bother?
The restriction he claims GÇö one account only per computer GÇö is a misreading of that install limit. It says GÇ£you may install a copy of the Software on, and access the System from, a single computer [GǪ]. You must purchase a separate license to the Software for each additional Account you register [GǪ]. You may not use more than one Account with a single licensed copy of the Software.GÇ¥ He's essentially reading it backwards: the EULA dictates computers per copy, not copies per computer.
It does not say GÇ£you may only install a single copy on, and access the system from, a single computer [for each account]GÇ¥. Since they've given me the right to download and install, they would have to explicitly exclude the right to do it multiple times under certain circumstances, and they simply don't. The closest thing is the bit at the end, where each install is only really meant to be used with one account, but again, that just means you can use multiple installs (and you will have all the licenses required because otherwise you won't have enough accounts to use them all) on the same computer.
you completely went away from my point. i dont care if you have 1000 toons. The point is you cannot have 1000 toons logged in at the same time and assist in ganking a player ect. That is against the rules.
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O2 jayjay
Tres Corvi INC. Mordus Angels
14
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 16:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:While I sympathize and happen to think that tools like isboxer should be banned, CCP does not feel the same way and draw a clear distinction between multiboxing and botting. Your friend was botting, which is a no-no. Get isboxer, get fleet of miners, mine all you like and only visit your computer every 15min or so to do stuff. Its sickening, but its the rules. Thankfully there is also the New Order of Hisec, and their own set of rules to bring balance to hisec mining.
You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.
written clear as day. this was copied and past from eve website http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/eve-eula/ |

Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
5480
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 16:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
O2 jayjay wrote:you completely went away from my point. i dont care if you have 1000 toons. The point is you cannot have 1000 toons logged in at the same time and assist in ganking a player ect. That is against the rules.
Oh I see, you didn't read the quote. The Muppets: P+¦pc++rn (thanks Ria!) "So.. youre saying you cant create content.... because other people are out... creating content?" --United Arab Emirates |

Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2513
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 16:36:00 -
[29] - Quote
O2 jayjay wrote:The point is you cannot have 1000 toons logged in at the same time and assist in ganking a player ect.
Why not?
O2 jayjay wrote:That is against the rules.
Maybe yours but definitely not CCP's. Not currently at least. Eve Online Overview Wizard: Forum thread Homepage
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
247
|
Posted - 2014.08.07 16:37:00 -
[30] - Quote
O2 jayjay wrote:You may not use your own or any third-party software, macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.
Copy and paste from EULA This statement is based entirely on the definition of "ordinary Game play", which is inherently arbitrary. If CCP considers players running multiple clients at once "ordinary Game play", then multi-boxing, in and of itself, is not a bannable offense. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook.
I want to create content, not become content. |
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