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Adriana Nolen
Sama Guild
45
   |
Posted - 2014.08.11 18:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
With the super highway/ PVP best friends changes coming. It's time that C4 sites got their blue loot isk quantities doubled. Frontier barracks should be 132m isk, Sleeper information Sanctum = 128m, Frontier Command Center = 120m, & IT = 115m. This will enable larger groups to be able to actually live there & "FUND PVP" activities.
Allow carriers & freighters {not dreads} to jump through any C4 holes that link to C4+.
Toned down Carrier Escalations, maybe like 6 safeguards spawned for the first, 8 for the second. Make the safeguards ewar immune to discourage dread use.
Side Note: anyone know the new static combo's. |
epicurus ataraxia
Lazerhawks
988
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 19:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
I agree that the values of C4 wormholes needs to be addressed, in fact all lower class wormholes need attention here if we wish people to be able to live here and finance PVP through working their home system.
I do not agree with changing the mass limits though, It will already be a serious disruption of occupants life as it is, that will just put them over the edge, and make them nothing but an empty freeway.
I think it is part of the philosophy of wormhole life, that we will discover the mechanics for ourself, but I would Strongly believe that a lot will gain a C2 static.
That would be the most balanced and lead to the most vibrancy.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Ziirn
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
32
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 19:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
Can you still solo some sites in tengu and run all sites with 2xRR tengu 10-15min ish (per site)? (non data-relic)
If above is correct I think the sleepers need to be a bit harder in some way to up the ISK in c4's. When I used to run em it was pretty good isk/hour. Granted that is over 2+ years ago now and stuff have changed.
As for carrier and freighters in the hole it's not something I'm against but I would think that C4 wh's would become way jucier targets and that is what most c4 peeps seem to not want.
If they want to do escalations they could just move to a C5, theres plenty of empty ones or with offline towers. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
Situation: Normal
2297
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 20:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
C4 site's aren't all that bad. Move the spawns a little closer and they would be fine.
I mean I've had Data sites where the last spawn was so far away it spawned off grid. |
Bronya Boga
Isogen 5
433
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 20:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote: but I would Strongly believe that a lot will gain a C2 static.
There will be 54 c4> c4/c2 wormholes total. Confirmed by fozzie on dtp
Host of Down The Pipe-áIngame Channel DTP Podcast
www.downthepipe-wh.com
GÇïIsogen 5 is recruiting. Check us out
|
unimatrix0030
Viperfleet Inc.
Disavowed.
143
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 20:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Check corbexx blog, he is making a list of what people earn in what class of wormholes.
So that good comparisons are possible.
After that it will be quite easy to show CCP where the lack in rewards are.
Maybe you should give him a hand? |
Jack Miton
Isogen 5
3635
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 21:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
C4s are pretty high up there solo ISK/hour wise, second only to C5s. Doubling it is extremely over the top and no you should not be able to jump caps into C4s.
C2s are FAR more important to address.
In any case, it's being worked on.
Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe:-á http://downthepipe-wh.com/ |
corbexx
eXceed Inc.
No Holes Barred
555
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 21:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:C4s are pretty high up there solo ISK/hour wise, second only to C5s. Doubling it is extremely over the top and no you should not be able to jump caps into C4s.
C2s are FAR more important to address.
In any case, it's being worked on.
C4 sites are attually some of the best out there.
Corbexx for CSM 9 - Wormholes deserve better |
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Cult of Mooby
238
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 23:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:C4 site's aren't all that bad. Move the spawns a little closer and they would be fine.
I mean I've had Data sites where the last spawn was so far away it spawned off grid.
I have had those off-grid spawns as well, I don't know what CCP is using to dictate the spawns on C4 Data/Relic sites but I think they have a "feature" in the code somewhere that could use some addressing. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
Ixtab.
1722
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 23:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
If we assume that less people are going to be farming after the patch, the value of sleeper salvage should go up anyway 
... Then when T3s get nerfed into the ground, it will fall right back down 
+1 |
Blake Nosferatu
Phoenix of the Black Sun
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 23:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
corbexx wrote:Jack Miton wrote:C4s are pretty high up there solo ISK/hour wise, second only to C5s. Doubling it is extremely over the top and no you should not be able to jump caps into C4s.
C2s are FAR more important to address.
In any case, it's being worked on. C4 sites are attually some of the best out there.
I think jack means to include escalation isk in c5's which is about a bil isk vs the normal atm 80 mil per site in c4's. Now there will be more traffic aka more risk there should be m or reward which I agree. Also please ccp fix the broken c4 relic/data sites. After a can has been hacked successfully the next waves usually don't spawn. C1's and c2's definitely need a boost in isk. C3's atm seem good were they are. You can make almost the same amount in a c3 with a tengu as a golem in a c4 atm.
|
Bleedingthrough
Raptor Navy
90
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 23:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
Blake Nosferatu wrote:corbexx wrote:Jack Miton wrote:C4s are pretty high up there solo ISK/hour wise, second only to C5s. Doubling it is extremely over the top and no you should not be able to jump caps into C4s.
C2s are FAR more important to address.
In any case, it's being worked on. C4 sites are attually some of the best out there. I think Adriana means to include escalation isk in c5's which is about a bil isk vs the normal atm 80 mil per site in c4's. Now there will be more traffic aka more risk there should be more reward which I agree. Also please ccp fix the broken c4 relic/data sites. After a can has been hacked successfully the next waves usually don't spawn. C1's and c2's definitely need a boost in isk. C3's atm seem good were they are. You can make almost the same amount in a c3 with a tengu as a golem in a c4 atm. Also I agree no caps should be able to travel through c4's .
You are talking about different things here. ISK/h is ok compared to other lowclass WHs but as soon as your corp grows a bit you might need to crush a lot to find a static with enough total amount of isk in it to be worth the effort.
|
Blake Nosferatu
Phoenix of the Black Sun
0
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 00:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
Maybe if one of my statics is a c4 that would not be a issue? Maybe myself and my corp do not want to deal with caps and that's why we like the lower class wh life. The corp growing vs isk income does not bother me as it might have in the past due to these nice changes coming up. :) |
Jack Miton
Isogen 5
3636
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 00:49:00 -
[14] - Quote
Blake Nosferatu wrote:corbexx wrote:Jack Miton wrote:C4s are pretty high up there solo ISK/hour wise, second only to C5s. Doubling it is extremely over the top and no you should not be able to jump caps into C4s.
C2s are FAR more important to address.
In any case, it's being worked on. C4 sites are attually some of the best out there. I think Adriana means to include escalation isk in c5's which is about a bil isk vs the normal atm 80 mil per site in c4's. Now there will be more traffic aka more risk there should be more reward which I agree. Also please ccp fix the broken c4 relic/data sites. After a can has been hacked successfully the next waves usually don't spawn. C1's and c2's definitely need a boost in isk. C3's atm seem good were they are. You can make almost the same amount in a c3 with a tengu as a golem in a c4 atm. Im for keeping the mass limitations as they are in c4's.
I'm counting escalations too.
ISK per account on C5/6 escalations is only slightly higher than solo C4s and then only if youre running them with minimum numbers which most people do not.
You also need to commit a fleet that is way more skill intensive and is worth probably 10x as much as whatever ship youre running C4s solo in.
Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/
Down the Pipe:-á http://downthepipe-wh.com/ |
TomyLobo
U2EZ
135
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 07:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:C4s are pretty high up there solo ISK/hour wise, second only to C5s. Doubling it is extremely over the top and no you should not be able to jump caps into C4s.
C2s are FAR more important to address.
In any case, it's being worked on.
Because everyone living in a C4 is solo... |
Keith Planck
Lazerhawks
856
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 07:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
He's mad because he can't sustain his corp off home sites. He doesn't want to have to run sites in his static. He wants the Thanatos he spent weeks building to not be worthless.
can i content yet? |
Adriana Nolen
Sama Guild
47
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 08:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
Keith Planck wrote:He's mad because he can't sustain his corp off home sites. He doesn't want to have to run sites in his static. He wants the Thanatos he spent weeks building to not be worthless.
You're grossly mistaken. When I did live in C4-C4, I ran sites in both my home & statics. I never got jumped/ganked/killed while running statics. Never built a cap in my home wh. I did leave C4 space when I started running C5 sites. My basic C4 comp of 2 domis & logi only needed boosts to run C5 sites in a cata successfully. Once I discovered the insanity that is cap escalations, even with only swapping out carriers, I never went back. |
Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
525
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 12:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
Having a C4 static, I'm all for improving the income potential in C4 system. They don't need it, but I'm sure as heck not going to complain if they get it.
I'd say first to look at lower class income, and then to address the fact that the only use for Sleeper salvage and WH gas is for a single line of ships that CCP wants to nerf into the ground. Maybe once they finish fixing what ain't broke, they'll get around to fixing what is.
|
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Cult of Mooby
238
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 17:01:00 -
[19] - Quote
Meytal wrote:Having a C4 static, I'm all for improving the income potential in C4 system. They don't need it, but I'm sure as heck not going to complain if they get it.
I'd say first to look at lower class income, and then to address the fact that the only use for Sleeper salvage and WH gas is for a single line of ships that CCP wants to nerf into the ground. Maybe once they finish fixing what ain't broke, they'll get around to fixing what is.
I tend to agree with this, and on the subject of WH loot only being used for T3 production maybe it is time to add to the "T3/WH" line of products. I would like to see the Sleeper missiles being added to the player arsenal, I don't really know about stats but you could even make them disallowed in K-space due to some "interference" with the local/Concord network that prevents them from locking targets. This would allow them to be a small type of WH-only content, and even if they aren't limited to WH's I would still like to see them added to the game. The mystery surrounding Sleeper tech would allow the Dev's to create some real off-the-wall uses for Sleeper missiles. Just a thought, and I know it has plenty of holes in it. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
Situation: Normal
2299
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 17:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
Meytal wrote:Having a C4 static, I'm all for improving the income potential in C4 system. They don't need it, but I'm sure as heck not going to complain if they get it.
I'd say first to look at lower class income, and then to address the fact that the only use for Sleeper salvage and WH gas is for a single line of ships that CCP wants to nerf into the ground. Maybe once they finish fixing what ain't broke, they'll get around to fixing what is.
I would agree with the lower class WH income. To be fair though the comment about nerfing T3's into the ground was made what like 2 years ago at this point? It was made by someone other than CCP Fozzie, and a lot of other balancing has happened in the meantime which may make that comment no longer valid. |
Andrew Jester
Origin.
Black Legion.
616
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 17:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:Meytal wrote:Having a C4 static, I'm all for improving the income potential in C4 system. They don't need it, but I'm sure as heck not going to complain if they get it.
I'd say first to look at lower class income, and then to address the fact that the only use for Sleeper salvage and WH gas is for a single line of ships that CCP wants to nerf into the ground. Maybe once they finish fixing what ain't broke, they'll get around to fixing what is.
I tend to agree with this, and on the subject of WH loot only being used for T3 production maybe it is time to add to the "T3/WH" line of products. I would like to see the Sleeper missiles being added to the player arsenal, I don't really know about stats but you could even make them disallowed in K-space due to some "interference" with the local/Concord network that prevents them from locking targets. This would allow them to be a small type of WH-only content, and even if they aren't limited to WH's I would still like to see them added to the game. The mystery surrounding Sleeper tech would allow the Dev's to create some real off-the-wall uses for Sleeper missiles. Just a thought, and I know it has plenty of holes in it.
Jump into k-space because you're fighting on a null/LS hole: "GUY PLS WAIT 5-10 SECONDS I HAVE TO RELOAD BECAUSE I CAN'T SHOOT MY GUNS HERE"
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy |
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
1339
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 17:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ziirn wrote:Granted that is over 2+ years ago now and stuff have changed.
LOL, CCP change wormholes?
Also, double c4 income? Damn, I'm moving out of c5s and into c4s.
Not sure what kind of fever dream you're having to make you think doubling the income fo one of the best solo income sources in the game is a good idea, but whatever caused it must have been some good stuff. Pass the pipe around will you? |
Kuya Third
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 18:42:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Blake Nosferatu wrote:corbexx wrote:Jack Miton wrote:C4s are pretty high up there solo ISK/hour wise, second only to C5s. Doubling it is extremely over the top and no you should not be able to jump caps into C4s.
C2s are FAR more important to address.
In any case, it's being worked on. C4 sites are attually some of the best out there. I think Adriana means to include escalation isk in c5's which is about a bil isk vs the normal atm 80 mil per site in c4's. Now there will be more traffic aka more risk there should be more reward which I agree. Also please ccp fix the broken c4 relic/data sites. After a can has been hacked successfully the next waves usually don't spawn. C1's and c2's definitely need a boost in isk. C3's atm seem good were they are. You can make almost the same amount in a c3 with a tengu as a golem in a c4 atm. Im for keeping the mass limitations as they are in c4's. I'm counting escalations too. ISK per account on C5/6 escalations is only slightly higher than solo C4s and then only if youre running them with minimum numbers which most people do not. You also need to commit a fleet that is way more skill intensive and is worth probably 10x as much as whatever ship youre running C4s solo in.
Pretty funny how people are coming up with false arguments.
You need 1 dread pilot and 3 more cap sitter which just warp in and go safe again to fully escalate.
One dread is shooting an escalation wave in a bit over 3 minutes. 4x3=12min to earn little bit more than what?
And since you do not run the site itself, it will respawn the next 3 days. Hm, any other wormhoe runs out of sites pretty quick.
In another thread you complain about loosing the mechanic to insta close the static which is not possible in any lower class wormhole.
No wonder you are bored and cry for content. Can you imagine that your targets don't have the income to run a srp in that dimension? In that income area any argument about the risk fielding a dread is irrellevant...
Rebalancing is not necessary. Just remove or at least fix escalations and you fix many issues in eve - also outside wh space.
PS: oh, plz dont tell me that solo escalating is not happening .. just dont plz. |
Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
527
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 18:45:00 -
[24] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:To be fair though the comment about nerfing T3's into the ground was made what like 2 years ago at this point? It was made by someone other than CCP Fozzie, and a lot of other balancing has happened in the meantime which may make that comment no longer valid.
True, but it was made at a time when T3 fleets were as popular in Nullsec as they are now (ie: not that much), by Nullsec-minded devs who didn't understand the WH meta, WH mechanics, or why they were so important for W-space.
Some of the HAC changes are good, some maybe a little too good (Ishtar), and many still underwhelming. But the Nullsec hivemind still can't understand that you can't fit a Proteus for 1200 dps, 400k EHP, cloaky and interdiction nullified with 100MN prop mod all at the same time. That you can't even change between them at will without significant expense isn't even enough. Just the simple fhe fact that it can do all of those things is sufficient enough to warrant its destruction. When you have CSM crying that W-space groups decimate their renters' ratting fleets, you see the quality of "advice" CCP is receiving, and then many of the changes they've been making start making sense.
T3 fleets still aren't popular in Nullsec, devs still focus on Nullsec and still do not understand W-space. They're even changing WH mechanics to favour those from Nullsec, instead of investing time and effort into trying to understand what we have and why we love it, allowing differences to exist in their game.
Moongoo lets you print ISK and control a huge portion of the market. Part of that is required because of poorly-implemented Nullsec mechanics and the fallacy of "if it's expensive, it will discourage (whatever) from happening", but stop and imagine for a moment if the W-space community was able to gain even a temporary stranglehold on the market, upsetting T2 industry ... what might happen to us?
No, T3 cruisers will still be nerfed hard, and any non-blue loot income from W-space will dry up the way the gas market has fallen. Unless they create another use for W-space raw materials, balancing the importance of nanoribbons with the rest of the salvage.
Maybe a little harsh, and maybe leaning a little too much in the direction of "the sky is falling", but when you go to change something that you don't understand, you break a lot more than you intend. |
Kalel Nimrott
1120
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 18:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
Lower class income problems are not the isk per site but the spawn rate of the sites. Still is somewhat good. I live in a c3 and I could use an extra spawn or two a day-
Brasil, decime qu+¬ se siente / tener en casa a tu pap+í / Te juro, que aunque pasen los a+¦os / nunca nos vamos a olvidar / Que el Diego te gambete+¦ / que Cani te vacun+¦ / que est+ís llorando desde Italia hasta hoy |
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
75
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 18:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
Oh look it-¦s this again:
People, if you are making bad isk/h, esp compared to C1-3s, running c4 sites and even homesites you are bad at eve and should feel bad.
I cannot wait for the T3 prices to rise to awesome again once they take away the SP loss  But I really doubt we will ever see the demand from tengus #1 in nullblobs, missionrunning and even smallscale PvP all over eve again. |
Andrew Jester
Origin.
Black Legion.
618
|
Posted - 2014.08.12 19:10:00 -
[27] - Quote
Kalel Nimrott wrote:Lower class income problems are not the isk per site but the spawn rate of the sites. Still is somewhat good. I live in a c3 and I could use an extra spawn or two a day.
P.S.: C4s are not lower class systems. They are.... something.
Middle class?
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy |
Kalel Nimrott
1122
|
Posted - 2014.08.13 01:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
I don't dare to categorize it.
Brasil, decime qu+¬ se siente / tener en casa a tu pap+í / Te juro, que aunque pasen los a+¦os / nunca nos vamos a olvidar / Que el Diego te gambete+¦ / que Cani te vacun+¦ / que est+ís llorando desde Italia hasta hoy |
TomyLobo
U2EZ
135
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 04:06:00 -
[29] - Quote
corbexx wrote:Jack Miton wrote:C4s are pretty high up there solo ISK/hour wise, second only to C5s. Doubling it is extremely over the top and no you should not be able to jump caps into C4s.
C2s are FAR more important to address.
In any case, it's being worked on. C4 sites are attually some of the best out there.
How did you arrive at this conclusion? Have you tried to run a corp (5-10members) in a C4 with all corp members revenue coming from anoms alone?
If one person were to solo all the sites then what exactly is left for the remaining corp members? I encourage you to approach this from a different standpoint. Don't just run a handful of sites then compare isk/hr. It just doesn't work that way. That approach would be sensible if wh sites were infinite but we all know they aren't. |
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
1342
|
Posted - 2014.08.14 04:38:00 -
[30] - Quote
TomyLobo wrote:corbexx wrote:Jack Miton wrote:C4s are pretty high up there solo ISK/hour wise, second only to C5s. Doubling it is extremely over the top and no you should not be able to jump caps into C4s.
C2s are FAR more important to address.
In any case, it's being worked on. C4 sites are attually some of the best out there. How did you arrive at this conclusion? Have you tried to run a corp (5-10members) in a C4 with all corp members revenue coming from anoms alone? If one person were to solo all the sites then what exactly is left for the remaining corp members? I encourage you to approach this from a different standpoint. Don't just run a handful of sites then compare isk/hr. It just doesn't work that way. That approach would be sensible if wh sites were infinite but we all know they aren't.
Try farming your static some time. |
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