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Carrier/Dread production in secure Empire (0.5 - 0.7)

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Avon Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 10:24:00 - [31] Originally by: Infinity Ziona If your going to blow each others POS up then I dont see why you cant just declare war on each other if you really want to hit them in Empire as well. If your unwilling then thats a consequence you face. Eve is supposed to be harsh and favour the aggressor. Right. Except of course that they can defend their POS with Capital ships, which you can't bring, and can refuel it with alts which you can't shoot. How is that favouring the aggressor exactly? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Ruffio Sepico Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.18 10:31:00 - [32] Originally by: Blighter Perhaps you cannot wap a Capital ship into a mission area, but you can assign a BS or other ship fighters, and have them burn through the missions with the fighters. Then you don;t even need weapon skill to run missions anymore. Drone 5, tank skill, and you can run any level 4 mission Can only assign fighters in 0.0 afaik. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Hellspawn01 Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.18 10:36:00 - [33] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Infinity Ziona If your going to blow each others POS up then I dont see why you cant just declare war on each other if you really want to hit them in Empire as well. If your unwilling then thats a consequence you face. Eve is supposed to be harsh and favour the aggressor. Right. Except of course that they can defend their POS with Capital ships, which you can't bring, and can refuel it with alts which you can't shoot. How is that favouring the aggressor exactly? If Corp A can build dreads in high sec, then Corp B, C or D can do that too. WST Dread in high sec wont be uncommon if this "feature" stays. Ship lovers click here
SengH Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.07.18 10:49:00 - [34] Edited by: SengH on 18/07/2006 10:50:16 Originally by: Hellspawn01 Originally by: Avon Originally by: Infinity Ziona If your going to blow each others POS up then I dont see why you cant just declare war on each other if you really want to hit them in Empire as well. If your unwilling then thats a consequence you face. Eve is supposed to be harsh and favour the aggressor. Right. Except of course that they can defend their POS with Capital ships, which you can't bring, and can refuel it with alts which you can't shoot. How is that favouring the aggressor exactly? If Corp A can build dreads in high sec, then Corp B, C or D can do that too. WST Dread in high sec wont be uncommon if this "feature" stays. Uhh when dreads (cold war i think) were released right up to carriers were released was a period of 6 months when building dreads in high sec was possible (how do you think chirrba got his?). This wasnt a big deal. Why should it be now? How do you think the .5. killed xetics POSes back in teneriffis before dreads were released? Magic Pixie dust? Someone fix the ***** forums btw... this bugged relogin ** sucks.
nahtoh Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 10:54:00 - [35] Originally by: Rod Blaine Well that reduces the issue. On the other hand, in the world of alliance warfare logistics are the main target of conflict these days. If you allow no-risk production of capital ships you remove a viable part of alliance warfare. Wasn't that the main reason why their production was moved to low sec only in the first place ? I thought it was to do with people building them in areas that they could not move them from... ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
Avon Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 10:55:00 - [36] Originally by: Hellspawn01 If Corp A can build dreads in high sec, then Corp B, C or D can do that too. WST Dread in high sec wont be uncommon if this "feature" stays. But corp A can put a POS at each moon in the system. How do you get your Empire built (or any) dread / carrier in? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Chewan Mesa Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.07.18 10:58:00 - [37] Edited by: Chewan Mesa on 18/07/2006 11:00:07 Originally by: Avon Originally by: Hellspawn01 If Corp A can build dreads in high sec, then Corp B, C or D can do that too. WST Dread in high sec wont be uncommon if this "feature" stays. But corp A can put a POS at each moon in the system. How do you get your Empire built (or any) dread / carrier in? Signed. You shouldnt be forced to put/build your own Capital Ships in a certain high sec system "just" because you want to kill a certain POS/POSs in there... It doesnt make sense allowing to build them there while not being able to destroy the POS they are built at. How do you justify an Alliance with a 30-Ship capital fleet leaving those at home and going in with battleships destroying Large POSs, hardened to the Teeth? It's totally unrealistic to ask from someone.
SengH Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.07.18 11:01:00 - [38] Edited by: SengH on 18/07/2006 11:04:25 Originally by: Avon Originally by: Hellspawn01 If Corp A can build dreads in high sec, then Corp B, C or D can do that too. WST Dread in high sec wont be uncommon if this "feature" stays. But corp A can put a POS at each moon in the system. How do you get your Empire built (or any) dread / carrier in? You get your friends and do it the old fashioned way... also running a POS at EVERY moon in a empire system would be financially unsuccessful since your not allowed to anchor harvesters in empire. I suppose you could run reactions though to make up some of the cost but it seems it would be VERY hard to break even. Then again a cargoexpanded dread to move the reactions to and from a stn would/could make this possible/feasible hmm. Originally by: Chewan Mesa Edited by: Chewan Mesa on 18/07/2006 11:00:07 Originally by: Avon Originally by: Hellspawn01 If Corp A can build dreads in high sec, then Corp B, C or D can do that too. WST Dread in high sec wont be uncommon if this "feature" stays. But corp A can put a POS at each moon in the system. How do you get your Empire built (or any) dread / carrier in? Signed. You shouldnt be forced to put/build your own Capital Ships in a certain high sec system "just" because you want to kill a certain POS/POSs in there... It doesnt make sense allowing to build them there while not being able to destroy the POS they are built at. How do you justify an Alliance with a 30-Ship capital fleet leaving those at home and going in with battleships destroying Large POSs, hardened to the Teeth? It's totally unrealistic to ask from someone. POSes came ingame waaay before dreads.... like a year. How do you think ppl got rid of them before then. Also do you think the empire would allow 30 dreadnoughts romping around their space? Its giant security risk.... then again given the relative power of their titans to player titans. It wouldnt suprise me if an empire dreadnought has 2x the number of slots/turret hardpoints as the ones we have and 100x the hp.
Avon Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 11:09:00 - [39] Originally by: SengH POSes came ingame waaay before dreads.... like a year. How do you think ppl got rid of them before then. They couldn't be defended by capital ships then though, could they? And how were they destroyed? Drones played the biggest part tbh. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
SengH Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.07.18 11:14:00 - [40] Edited by: SengH on 18/07/2006 11:14:57 Originally by: Avon Originally by: SengH POSes came ingame waaay before dreads.... like a year. How do you think ppl got rid of them before then. They couldn't be defended by capital ships then though, could they? And how were they destroyed? Drones played the biggest part tbh. Not really... we didnt use drones at all the first time we destroyed their POSes (was suprm alone)... for the smalls we sniped it from 200+ out using carb L. God that took a while... The 2nd time was the jzv incident where xetic got a /heal on their POS for us using drones. We then did it all over again without using a single drone. Ask Thol about it, it was pretty cool too the second time we did it. Felt more like real combat.. you see everyone taking fire around you but dont know whats going on outside your own squad, just buckle your head down and do your job.
Chewan Mesa Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.07.18 11:16:00 - [41] Originally by: SengH Also do you think the empire would allow 30 dreadnoughts romping around their space? Its giant security risk.... then again given the relative power of their titans to player titans. It wouldnt suprise me if an empire dreadnought has 2x the number of slots/turret hardpoints as the ones we have and 100x the hp. Didnt you just say it's ok to build Capital Ships in Empire? So that's ok, but bringing in those that arent build in empire isnt? Doesnt make sense.
Avon Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.18 11:16:00 - [42] Originally by: SengH Not really... we didnt use drones at all the first time we destroyed their POSes (was suprm alone)... for the smalls we sniped it from 200+ out using carb L. God that took a while... The 2nd time was the jzv incident where xetic got a /heal on their POS for us using drones. We then did it all over again without using a single drone. Ask Thol about it, it was pretty cool too the first time we did it. I wasn't having a go at you, trust me. Good logistics made POS takedowns pretty 'safe', it just took a long time. But then, most POS's weren't deathstars like they seem to be today. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
SengH Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.07.18 11:20:00 - [43] Edited by: SengH on 18/07/2006 11:21:34 Originally by: Chewan Mesa Originally by: SengH Also do you think the empire would allow 30 dreadnoughts romping around their space? Its giant security risk.... then again given the relative power of their titans to player titans. It wouldnt suprise me if an empire dreadnought has 2x the number of slots/turret hardpoints as the ones we have and 100x the hp. Didnt you just say it's ok to build Capital Ships in Empire? So that's ok, but bringing in those that arent build in empire isnt? Doesnt make sense. Its ok for them to move 1 way out... but moving 30 dreads back in from 0.0 would probably be viewed as an invasion force... sorry thats what I was trying to mean. 2#$#@king forum bugs suck btw... fix it CCP... edited a bit for clarification.
Chewan Mesa Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.07.18 11:21:00 - [44] Originally by: SengH Originally by: Chewan Mesa Originally by: SengH Also do you think the empire would allow 30 dreadnoughts romping around their space? Its giant security risk.... then again given the relative power of their titans to player titans. It wouldnt suprise me if an empire dreadnought has 2x the number of slots/turret hardpoints as the ones we have and 100x the hp. Didnt you just say it's ok to build Capital Ships in Empire? So that's ok, but bringing in those that arent build in empire isnt? Doesnt make sense. Its ok for them to move 1 way out... but moving back in from 0.0 would probably be viewed as an invasion force... sorry thats what I was trying to mean. This basically sounds like making a RP-point of view up to justify manufacturing them in high sec but not moving them in to remove POSs. It doesnt matter if I can build 30 Dreads in a sys or move them in to destroy a player-POS, not even from a RP-POV.
SengH Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.07.18 11:23:00 - [45] Originally by: Chewan Mesa Originally by: SengH Originally by: Chewan Mesa Originally by: SengH Also do you think the empire would allow 30 dreadnoughts romping around their space? Its giant security risk.... then again given the relative power of their titans to player titans. It wouldnt suprise me if an empire dreadnought has 2x the number of slots/turret hardpoints as the ones we have and 100x the hp. Didnt you just say it's ok to build Capital Ships in Empire? So that's ok, but bringing in those that arent build in empire isnt? Doesnt make sense. Its ok for them to move 1 way out... but moving back in from 0.0 would probably be viewed as an invasion force... sorry thats what I was trying to mean. This basically sounds like making a RP-point of view up to justify manufacturing them in high sec but not moving them in to remove POSs. It doesnt matter if I can build 30 Dreads in a sys or move them in to destroy a player-POS, not even from a RP-POV. Think about it this way... the US exports military hardware. But if China parked 5 carriers off the west coast chocked full of F-16s ... im sure you'd hear some colorful words.
Chewan Mesa Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.07.18 11:25:00 - [46] According to your analogy...it would be: China builds 5 Carriers IN the USA, and then uses them, or China moves in 5 Carriers. It's not the empire that builds them at that POS...
SengH Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.07.18 11:27:00 - [47] Edited by: SengH on 18/07/2006 11:30:01 Originally by: Chewan Mesa According to your analogy...it would be: China builds 5 Carriers IN the USA, and then uses them, or China moves in 5 Carriers. It's not the empire that builds them at that POS... The point of my analogy US Airforce doesnt build the F-16s. A Company Lockeed Martin does... was talking about the fighters not the carriers sorry. Edit: even if they were built in the US... if they moved them back to China then repositioned them again off the west coast a couple years later... there would probably be an uproar.
Chewan Mesa Beagle Corp	Posted - 2006.07.18 11:28:00 - [48] Originally by: SengH Originally by: Chewan Mesa According to your analogy...it would be: China builds 5 Carriers IN the USA, and then uses them, or China moves in 5 Carriers. It's not the empire that builds them at that POS... The point of my analogy US Airforce doesnt build the F-16s. A Company Lockeed Martin does... was talking about the fighters not the carriers sorry. Let us just drop it :)
Hellspawn01 Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.18 12:48:00 - [49] Originally by: Chewan Mesa Edited by: Chewan Mesa on 18/07/2006 11:00:07 Originally by: Avon Originally by: Hellspawn01 If Corp A can build dreads in high sec, then Corp B, C or D can do that too. WST Dread in high sec wont be uncommon if this "feature" stays. But corp A can put a POS at each moon in the system. How do you get your Empire built (or any) dread / carrier in? Signed. You shouldnt be forced to put/build your own Capital Ships in a certain high sec system "just" because you want to kill a certain POS/POSs in there... It doesnt make sense allowing to build them there while not being able to destroy the POS they are built at. How do you justify an Alliance with a 30-Ship capital fleet leaving those at home and going in with battleships destroying Large POSs, hardened to the Teeth? It's totally unrealistic to ask from someone. Avon, just buy the dreads in that system Using Dreads/carriers in high sec in a war is kinda pointless unless its to remove hostile POS¦s. Basicly you use the same tactics in empires as in 0.0. Its just that nobody would build a fleet of dreads in empire only to have them trapped there which they are in many systems (out of jump range to low sec). Building them to move later to 0.0 is an advantage and actually more a good way for capital ship builders for better market saturation. As for mission runners, dreads are useless for missions due to the lack of turrets and its very time consuming. Carriers are abit better with fighters but both dont really qualify as solo mission runners. Dont forget that dreads and carriers got ganked in empire because they were overconfident like a pirate in a naglafar or a complex runner got killed by a moros (ATUF?). Ship lovers click here
bobeeb Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.18 12:51:00 - [50] i did some test`s weeks ago on sisi and we managed it to build a carrier in a 0.5 sys now we are offering them on tq and untill ccp decide its an exploit or told us to stop we do deliver them in highsec but i think after all this discussions they will patch the large assembly array soon so get one while its hot
Ray McCormack BIG	Posted - 2006.07.18 13:06:00 - [51] Originally by: Ruffio Sepico Can only assign fighters in 0.0 afaik. Incorrect, I've had them assigned to me in 0.4. Unsure of higher sec than that. \| The BIG Lottery \| BIG Sales \| 665413 \|
Villiger	Posted - 2006.07.19 01:21:00 - [52] You guy's just want to impose a NBSI policy in empire. Never seen so many alliances agree on something b4. Get 10 or 20 good highsec systems filled with Capital ships in them (1 being Jita), wardec the commerce and you can change the face of the Eve universe. All jokes aside, I'm sure this idea crossed a few power-mongrel minds...
5678309	Posted - 2006.07.19 01:33:00 - [53] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Ruffio Sepico Can only assign fighters in 0.0 afaik. Incorrect, I've had them assigned to me in 0.4. Unsure of higher sec than that. This has been verified: Fighters CANNOT be deligated out higher than 0.4 sec. Thus meaning that fighters cannot be assigned to others so they can insta missions all day. Which is a good thing tbh.
Lurtz Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.19 03:29:00 - [54] Originally by: Lorth Capital ships in missions, makes for an easy isk maker. The problem is, that you can't get them into high sec, unless of course you build them there. Which means of course, any mission in the same system that your capital ship is in..... The other question/problem, are they ancorable by someone in an NPC corp. There's a huge issue if capatail ship production can be done in a POS that is effectivly immune. OK so only low sec mission runners should be able to use them in missions? Yes, some are. As for NPC, non-issue, pos are deployed for corp, not for an individual, and a person in an npc corp can never get the role to deploy equipment in space.
Countess Kari Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.21 01:52:00 - [55] Originally by: Hellspawn01 Originally by: Hakzor Actually a Dread can infanitly tank Concorde as i done with my Revelation in Hig sec on Sisi Not dying to concord is an exploit. Anyone that does tank concord is to be petitioned. You mean if a group goes after concord, just as they would any other NPC, and wipes them out, and no player dies, its is an exploit???
Karina Harington Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.07.21 12:42:00 - [56] Originally by: Countess Kari You mean if a group goes after concord, just as they would any other NPC, and wipes them out, and no player dies, its is an exploit??? Yeah, good luck trying that.

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