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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Kaylana Syi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.18 20:35:00 -
[1]
Hello Tux,
I'd like to see Carriers getting the abilty to use Clone Vats. Lets put it this way, if carriers are able to field a fleet of frigates I would like my carrier to have the abilty to jump clone the pilots to it.
I really don't see the reason why there has been a line drawn on clone vats as motherships and titans only. The way this system is means there is a large amount of favoritism going into large alliances where jump clones can be installed at outposts and uber capital ships ( dunno if this even works yet tho ). However, what about the small dedicated corps that would go into battle making EVE more tactical?
I feel that game mechanics should be given to everyone for a level playing field. While alliances need tools to protect their space, the little guys need tools to give them a reason to do so.
Team Minmatar |
Succoros
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.18 21:20:00 -
[2]
Hp boost, larger ship carrying capacity, size boost and this would ftw.
-----------------------------------
Death is more eternal than life.
Everyone dies but not everyone lives. |
Andrea Jaruwalski
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.19 08:52:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Andrea Jaruwalski on 19/07/2006 08:53:24
I totally agree, On a small scale. for example:
Level 4 skills for clonebay would allow your carrier to allow 20 clones, which means you have 20 pilots cloning to your carrier.
The ship maintenance can carry enough for those, 20 or so.
Move the carrier somewhere, and there you go. You have a 20 man inty gang, cloning to your carrier.
Makes invading fun. :)
You can then stay there, refuel them, repair them, they can refit, replacements maybe (not really, the carrier would be full - but could jump back to get more in the ship since it would be empty after they cloned to it).
I definitly like that idea.
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WiseMagic
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.19 09:05:00 -
[4]
If the carrier goes pop do the clones go pop aswell, if so u can imagine that could get expensive 20x clone with full head of implants going pop its like another carrier going pop. But I don`t know how this works, does ne1 know what happens when a Mothership or titan goes pop? Do the clones go pop?
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Andrea Jaruwalski
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.19 09:11:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Andrea Jaruwalski on 19/07/2006 09:11:51
 Originally by: WiseMagic
If the carrier goes pop do the clones go pop aswell, if so u can imagine that could get expensive 20x clone with full head of implants going pop its like another carrier going pop. But I don`t know how this works, does ne1 know what happens when a Mothership or titan goes pop? Do the clones go pop?
Alright, When you install a clone in a carrier.
What happens is, you have a jumpable clone, if your pilot jump from a station from empire, they will jump to an empty clone in/near the carrier. (a pod outside)
Leaving their implants 'in' the station they left.
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Lord WarATron
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.19 10:38:00 -
[6]
Originally by: WiseMagic
If the carrier goes pop do the clones go pop aswell, if so u can imagine that could get expensive 20x clone with full head of implants going pop its like another carrier going pop. But I don`t know how this works, does ne1 know what happens when a Mothership or titan goes pop? Do the clones go pop?
What kind of moron would use a Jumpclone for PvP and have his PvP Jumpclone carrying all his implants? And no, slave set does not count :)
---
Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour
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XGS Crimson
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Posted - 2006.07.19 11:00:00 -
[7]
i <3 andrea 
signature to large, and advertising in a sig are not allowed - Acario Vito |
Stamm
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.19 11:24:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Hello Tux,
I'd like to see Carriers getting the abilty to use Clone Vats. Lets put it this way, if carriers are able to field a fleet of frigates I would like my carrier to have the abilty to jump clone the pilots to it.
I really don't see the reason why there has been a line drawn on clone vats as motherships and titans only. The way this system is means there is a large amount of favoritism going into large alliances where jump clones can be installed at outposts and uber capital ships ( dunno if this even works yet tho ). However, what about the small dedicated corps that would go into battle making EVE more tactical?
I feel that game mechanics should be given to everyone for a level playing field. While alliances need tools to protect their space, the little guys need tools to give them a reason to do so.
Yeah, and since my corp won't ever be able to afford a titan, can our dreadnought get a doomsday weapon? If you don't let us it's unfair because we can't compete with alliances.
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Andrea Jaruwalski
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.19 11:27:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Andrea Jaruwalski on 19/07/2006 11:27:40
Originally by: Stamm
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Hello Tux,
I'd like to see Carriers getting the abilty to use Clone Vats. Lets put it this way, if carriers are able to field a fleet of frigates I would like my carrier to have the abilty to jump clone the pilots to it.
I really don't see the reason why there has been a line drawn on clone vats as motherships and titans only. The way this system is means there is a large amount of favoritism going into large alliances where jump clones can be installed at outposts and uber capital ships ( dunno if this even works yet tho ). However, what about the small dedicated corps that would go into battle making EVE more tactical?
I feel that game mechanics should be given to everyone for a level playing field. While alliances need tools to protect their space, the little guys need tools to give them a reason to do so.
Yeah, and since my corp won't ever be able to afford a titan, can our dreadnought get a doomsday weapon? If you don't let us it's unfair because we can't compete with alliances.
Sarcasm detected, attempting to sign this post failed.
CCP gave horrible ways to build motherships in the first place, they require dedication and constant watch, which in the long run, is 'very' hard and for most, a waste of time to even try to build one.
That's why noone has them (but a few exceptions - counted on my hand). Ohh shiny Capital ship array there?!!! You claim this system? I wonder why. Let's pop your POS with 10 dreadnaught!
15-20 bil wasted.
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Stamm
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.19 11:35:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski
Sarcasm detected, attempting to sign this post failed.
CCP gave horrible ways to build motherships in the first place, they require dedication and constant watch, which in the long run, is 'very' hard and for most, a waste of time to even try to build one.
That's why noone has them (but a few exceptions - counted on my hand). Ohh shiny Capital ship array there?!!! You claim this system? I wonder why. Let's pop your POS with 10 dreadnaught!
15-20 bil wasted.
Very valid points. However, those are problems with motherships, not problems with carriers. Motherships are scarily expensive because of the logistics they provide. CCP have already adjusted stuff to cater for motherships (cap ship maint arrays), I'm sure they'll tweak things further.
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Kaylana Syi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.19 12:48:00 -
[11]
Ok lets put it this way stamm...
The way EVE is going all the tools are being given to large alliances to put vice grips on 0.0 space. Large alliances claim every reagion in space. Some war over identical claims. Noone owns a good 80% of space yet they claim it because they can. They build dread fleets.
They go and take down half a billion or so in POS equipment and atleast another half billion in time spent setting up the POS. There is no balance to the risk vs reward. The alliance isn't going to loose anything and the corp is going to loose everything. This is the way 0.0 works right now. Buy a pass or sneak in and risk everything. Eitherway the alliance has you bent over a desk.
Now...
What would a clone vat on a carrier bring to the game? It would give small corps the ability to get their voice heard. It would open up PvP to people in much the same way GoonFleet has. Carebears wouldn't dream of 'one day' being able to traverse 0.0 they could clone to a carrier and grab an assault frig.
It would also allow Large Alliances to field tactical incursions to their enemy. Blobs? Why bother? You can send 10 carriers out with differnt complements. You can send 1 carrier with frigs, 1 carrier with HACs and interdictors and 1 carrier with command ships. 3 squads to tactically engage at different areas and one for backup.
Now... you want chaos? You have to deal with the defending alliance and also have to look for random corp x that has the same ability. This could lead to more targets OR more allies. Battleships can fight over choke points and frig, destroyer, cruiser and battlecruisers can battle in the field like it SHOULD BE. It could also lead to small, unknown corps getting the ability to prove themselves in battle and get reputation. It would shake up the monotony of 0.0 politics and the alliance elitism.
As it stands now... only the best alliances have the tools at their disposal. Its go to 0.0 and be at the mercy of someone bigger.
Team Minmatar |
WiseMagic
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.19 12:54:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Originally by: WiseMagic
If the carrier goes pop do the clones go pop aswell, if so u can imagine that could get expensive 20x clone with full head of implants going pop its like another carrier going pop. But I don`t know how this works, does ne1 know what happens when a Mothership or titan goes pop? Do the clones go pop?
What kind of moron would use a Jumpclone for PvP and have his PvP Jumpclone carrying all his implants? And no, slave set does not count :)
Well let me see some moron with alot of isk and yes slave implants do count. I have multiple clones with diff sets of impants so am I moron? If it was up to u prob yes but hey its not up to u so just go and get a nice cup of STFU and move on with ur own buisness.
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hitech redneck
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Posted - 2006.07.19 13:00:00 -
[13]
I could also remember that ccp said the new carries would be priced so they could be bought by smaller corps and players. 1 bil for the ship. 20mil per fighter not to mention the cost of mods. As a small corp this is a bit outside our price rand when you add the cost of skills in also. We are not hardcore players we have a rl and family.
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Nafri
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.19 13:13:00 -
[14]
Originally by: hitech redneck
I could also remember that ccp said the new carries would be priced so they could be bought by smaller corps and players. 1 bil for the ship. 20mil per fighter not to mention the cost of mods. As a small corp this is a bit outside our price rand when you add the cost of skills in also. We are not hardcore players we have a rl and family.
CCP also wanted them to be frontline ships, the capital ship for daily PvP use. The main ships of fleetwars.
Well, they are POS hugging afk boats assigning their fighers to intereceptors
From Dusk till Dawn
Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
Stamm
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.19 20:54:00 -
[15]
I see what you're saying Kaylana.
But Eve is supposed to be an Empire building game - it's the real attraction for me.
In Eve you have an individual, with his own goals, the individual joins a corporation, to further his ends, and be part of something bigger. His corporation joins an alliance, to share with other corporations a future.
I'm a big fan of Empire building. I want alliances to have defended territory. I want them able to lock down their space, lock down their assets, prevent other people coming in and pasting their miners and POSs. Of course I do realise that that kills much of the PvP fun in the game.
I do not want a game where people can instantly be wherever they want in the game. I don't want pirate corps being able to easily move a gang of 12 people 20 jumps into enemy 0.0 space and start shooting. People are always saying that more fights is more fun. I think there's plenty of fighting going on just now if you want it, and the more you focus on fighting the more the other aspects of the game drown out. Make it too easy to gank and the game suffers - likewise make it more difficult and it suffers too.
Now, I hope you don't take offence, but there's a chip on your shoulder, there's a few things that give it away, let me explain.
Your corporation can't join the three alliances you've applied to. I noticed your comment about Goonfleet. That isn't what they're about. Goonfleet opened up PvP to Goonfleet members, not to anybody else in Eve.
Chaos? I don't think anybody wants chaos. How can we have an empire building game where anyone can literally go anwhere in the game?
The monotony of 0.0 politics and the alliance elitism is your own opinion. It seems very much to me as if you're bitter you're not part of the monotony and elitsm.
Ans as for being at the mercy of someone bigger - that's Eve, it's life too. It's the way it is. What's the point in grasping for power, building Empires, industrialising 0.0, creating alliances if nobody ends up at your mercy.
As for carriers and clone vats - no. I'm against giving the logistical ability to everybody in the game to put anyone anywhere. Because with clone bays the only thing carriers can't move is battleships, and they're generally only for fleet battles and ratting/mining. You can harass people just as well with HACs, cruisers, BCs, command ships, interceptors, assault frigates etc. And right now people do that, they just have to get in and out of hostile space - which is a good thing. There's already complaints about login traps and so on. How's that going to work when you can cyno in 3 carriers and within 5 minutes have a gang of 30 people there?
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Kaylana Syi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.19 22:16:00 -
[16]
one moment
Team Minmatar
Carriers need Clone Vats
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Kaylana Syi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.19 22:16:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Stamm
I see what you're saying Kaylana.
But Eve is supposed to be an Empire building game - it's the real attraction for me.
In Eve you have an individual, with his own goals, the individual joins a corporation, to further his ends, and be part of something bigger. His corporation joins an alliance, to share with other corporations a future.
I'm a big fan of Empire building. I want alliances to have defended territory. I want them able to lock down their space, lock down their assets, prevent other people coming in and pasting their miners and POSs. Of course I do realise that that kills much of the PvP fun in the game.
The first paragraph is bloddy obvious. The second paragraph is unbalanced and destroys the very nature of what EVE is. There should always be tools given to empires to defend their space but NEVER to hold vice grips on it. Tools should never be better than those who use it. When alliances hold several motherships you will see the very thing YOU dislike about my idea happening on a one sided stick.
Quote:
I do not want a game where people can instantly be wherever they want in the game. I don't want pirate corps being able to easily move a gang of 12 people 20 jumps into enemy 0.0 space and start shooting. People are always saying that more fights is more fun. I think there's plenty of fighting going on just now if you want it, and the more you focus on fighting the more the other aspects of the game drown out. Make it too easy to gank and the game suffers - likewise make it more difficult and it suffers too.
Pirates do that already with WCS and jump clones. There is a very skewed amounts of fighting going on. Ganks are already too easy, didn't you get the memo? Not much has changed in this department since the day EVE opened its doors. Alliances and their allies already have the means neccessary to jump 100s of jumps accross the gallaxy to mobilize forces. ISS opens this also to most of EVE... so I fail to see any point you try to make.
Anser me this : Where in your EVE utopio does the non-allianced corps supposed to fit into EVE? Alliances will tell you empire. Well... if carriers are supposed to be the corporation and alliance tools then why are they gimped for fighting in both places? They can't assign fighters in 0.4 which is rediculous. They have little use in empire space other than carrying things to 0.0.
Now, I want to divert your attention to something. Alliances don't own 0.0 according to the tools given to them that say what they own. So, in what regards to you believe that corporations shouldn't get the chance to motivate into 0.0 like alliances can if they invest into a carrier? Because Lokta Voltera, for example, claim omist and tenerifis doesn't mean they actually do. Infact, they don't according to the map. No... they have soverenty in areas IN that area but they don't completely own that area. Why should they be the only ones that can put a cyno up 20 jumps from their sov space into legally unclaimed territory and not someone else?
Even if you can hold ~30 frigates its just frigates. An alliance should already have the ability to take out 30 frig pilots swarming around since t2 precision cruise, heavies, smart bombs, drones and nighthawks already have the ability to take on frigates with ease.
All you suggest is an alliance should have the privaledge of this type of tactic exclusively. I disagree. Pilots will always be worth more than any ship and how its used. And since there is no legal game mechanic supported claim for territory ownership then I really can't see how you can claim that empire control tools should be so exclusive.
continued...
Team Minmatar
Carriers need Clone Vats
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Noriath
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Posted - 2006.07.19 22:24:00 -
[18]
I think the system is fine the way it is to be honest. Yea, I'd like to see more powerful carriers as well, but there would just be no point to getting a moshi if carriers can fill the same role...
Motherships should maybe be cheaper and easier to get...
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Jovius Marginus
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Posted - 2006.07.19 22:29:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Jovius Marginus on 19/07/2006 22:29:50
Originally by: Noriath
I think the system is fine the way it is to be honest. Yea, I'd like to see more powerful carriers as well, but there would just be no point to getting a moshi if carriers can fill the same role...
Motherships should maybe be cheaper and easier to get...
Because Motherships could move BS fleets while Carriers could only move cruser fleets. I outlined my ideas here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=366865&page=1 except with a bit more of the specifics.
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Kaylana Syi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.19 22:42:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Noriath
I think the system is fine the way it is to be honest. Yea, I'd like to see more powerful carriers as well, but there would just be no point to getting a moshi if carriers can fill the same role...
Motherships should maybe be cheaper and easier to get...
Motherships are immune to ewar, they hold bigger ships and have more corp hangar capacity. Have you ever flown one? I have on Sisi and they are very hard to *****. I'd give up my nidhoggur any day for a Hel.
Team Minmatar
Carriers need Clone Vats
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CelestialWind
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Posted - 2006.07.19 22:43:00 -
[21]
i thought motherships+titans didnt disapre when loged off so thats why they get the clone vats as you would be ****ed if you were poded and you had set you clone to the titan and it was loged off so you were stuck out of game
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Vicarrah
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.19 23:25:00 -
[22]
/me <3 Kaylana
signed, double, and triple signed.
Stamm, when you play empire building games, do you build a vast, spread out, indefensible sprawl, or start with a tight core and work out? IMO there are very few alliances who can actually defend the space they claim.
Vicarrah
Tahiri |
Orvas Dren
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.19 23:49:00 -
[23]
Motherships and Titans do disappear if the pilot in them logs off in it.
You cannot clone back to a JumpClone on pod destruction, you will still clone back to a medical facility like you always have, at which point you could jump clone back to the mothership.
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DigitalCommunist
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.19 23:52:00 -
[24]
With all due respect, this is a terrible idea simply because of the sheer power jump clones have in EVE. A mothership is not restricted to alliances, we've seen smaller corporations beat them to the punch, and even certain individuals trying to buy one solo (albeit being exploiting dirtbags in the latter).
A Mothership holds a maximum of 45 clones. Out of an alliance of 1000+ with peak activity of 200 pilots in alliance chat on a daily basis, this is nothing. You'd need a small fleet of motherships to ensure that all your active pvpers can participate on the front lines. They can also carry around 40 cruisers and 30 frigates, which comes down to one replacement per person in one fleet. Still as impressed? Motherships are not qualified to be called alliance-scale toys, they're within range of any medium to large sized 0.0 corporation.
If every jackhole and his dog started hopping around the map for the price of a new pair of pants, we'd see more abuse of the travel system than innovative combat. Cause lets face it, Corp Taxi would be a role more common than diplomat. I wholeheartedly disagree that all game mechanics should be given to everyone. EVE is not a level playing field but for only one moment in your existance - creation. Everyone starts off with the same wealth. Where you go from there, and what powers you wield is dependant on how much effort you put in. The 'little guy' is nigh on unstoppable with current mechanics. True territorial control is still the same as it was 3 years ago. Whoever has more people in the system owns it. Putting your name on the map means nothing.
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
Hehulk
5punkorp
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.07.19 23:56:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Motherships are immune to ewar, they hold bigger ships and have more corp hangar capacity. Have you ever flown one? I have on Sisi and they are very hard to *****. I'd give up my nidhoggur any day for a Hel.
I've got to ask, How did you get your hands on a Hel on Sisi? They arn't seeded....
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Please choose one signature image, as per the forum rules. - Teblin |
Outa Rileau
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Posted - 2006.07.20 00:01:00 -
[26]
Originally by: XGS Crimson
i <3 andrea
It's a dude...
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Getting Sig Removed / Rank 8 / SP: 762039 of 2048000 
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Ange1
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.20 00:07:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Ange1 on 20/07/2006 00:08:55
Originally by: Hehulk
I've got to ask, How did you get your hands on a Hel on Sisi? They arn't seeded....
There was short period of time where Motherships and Titans were seeded and so everyone and his mother who had the skills, were flying them.
I agree with DC that Motherships - as The Establishment has shown - are not limited to Alliances. All it takes is some hard work and alot of willpower and it can be done. Bear in mind it too us 5 months to construct ours.
The Establishment is at your service...
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Outa Rileau
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Posted - 2006.07.20 00:10:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ange1
Edited by: Ange1 on 20/07/2006 00:08:55
Originally by: Hehulk
I've got to ask, How did you get your hands on a Hel on Sisi? They arn't seeded....
There was short period of time where Motherships and Titans were seeded and so everyone and his mother who had the skills, were flying them.
I agree with DC that Motherships - as The Establishment has shown - are not limited to Alliances. All it takes is some hard work and alot of willpower and it can be done. Bear in mind it too us 5 months to construct ours.
Tank was getting his own mothership... 
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Getting Sig Removed / Rank 8 / SP: 762039 of 2048000
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Ange1
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.20 00:11:00 -
[29]
I would expect nothing less 
The Establishment is at your service...
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Kaylana Syi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.20 00:23:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Hehulk
Originally by: Kaylana Syi
Motherships are immune to ewar, they hold bigger ships and have more corp hangar capacity. Have you ever flown one? I have on Sisi and they are very hard to *****. I'd give up my nidhoggur any day for a Hel.
I've got to ask, How did you get your hands on a Hel on Sisi? They arn't seeded....
Because I had one, which was over a month ago, they were seeded on friday and saturday that the SiSi had first reopened. I also had about 3 titans.
Team Minmatar
Carriers need Clone Vats
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