Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Akopian Atrebates
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 00:11:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Akopian Atrebates on 19/07/2006 00:19:27 I'm a member of GTU for just a few more hours now, and since I've been asked to leave, I don't feel particularly constrained to follow their rules about not posting political things unless you are a director. That said, even if they ask me back, I won't go back (which they won't) but hopefully that will add a little creditbility to what I say. I'm not trying to curry favor. I'm just trying to say it like I see it.
I began as a member of GTU about 11 months ago, but nevery really got much involved in things with the rest of the corp. So I've always sort of been an outsider looking in. When I joined GTU, IRON controlled Deklein, and GTU would happily mine away Crokite and enjoyed doing all the little things you do to get rich in 0.0 space.
Then BOB invaded Deklein. GTU wasn't a member of IRON--just a resident that had been there from before the existance of IRON. But GTU saw the threat to their home from BOB and so did their best to supply all the ships and material they could to the IRON alliance. The warriors in the corp even joined in some of the battles.
The battle won, the leadership of IRON seemed to be worn out and decided to leave Deklein. All GTU wanted was to be in peace in their little part of Deklein. Three active Pos's and that was it. It appeared though that to be at peace, they were STILL going to have to fight. So they joined NFC since all the corps in NFC were right around where they were. That was the power in their neighborhood so that's who they had to join forces with or fight against. Unfortunately, they really didn't have an option about not joining an alliance this time around even though they didn't much like it.
Then we had the first NFC/FLA war. The folks at GTU, for the most part, didn't really know exactly WHY the war started and why we couldn't come to terms, but again, the threat to GTU's neck of the woods seemed pretty real and GTU participated in the defense as they felt honor bound to do as part of the alliance and as a good neighbor. I don't think the leadership in GTU really enjoyed it. And I think some enemies were made of necessity that they really never wanted to make. But they were consistently worried about their parts of space that they have mined for almost as long as Dek has been around.
Well, that seemed to settle down and GTU tried their best to be a good neighbor again, but then things really went crazy. I honestly feel like GTU strove to do the right thing consistently, but events were so convoluted and crazy that they were left twisting back and forth trying to go the right direction. One thing they were concerned about throughout was protecting the area they had traditionally been in. That was the rudder that guided the boat. When NFC seemed to lose interest in fighting things out and was on the verge of extinction, GTU joined Sparta since they seemed interested in helping to preserve things in Deklein. GTU put their entire efforts into it with only a few exceptions (I was in Empire the whole time, so I'm one but I'm leaving remember). Finally, it was made abundantly clear that Sparta only intended to defend their home system and not support or attempt to also defend all the corporations from the old NFC that were trying to survive to the south of Sparta.
Well, by that time GTU was simply out of gas. They had fought and fought and fought, but I think the Sparta decision dissillusioned them. It finally sank in that there was nobody left that was going to help them keep their place in Deklein and GTU couldn't go on fighting anymore. They had been fighting for months, it was a constant strain, and it just had to stop. Not only that, but they had been fighting friends constantly.
I don't know how many times I heard people talk about how they had a really hard time firing on people they considered their friends even though the political situation had declared them enemies. They HATED these wars.
In the end they had nothing left.
|
Akopian Atrebates
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 00:17:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Akopian Atrebates on 19/07/2006 00:21:42 Part 2. They had nothing left. As GTU moved made plans to move out of Deklein more than a few people found that they didn't even have money to insure their ship. GTU gave their absolute all. They simply had nothing to fight with.
And yet I can't help but think that ANYBODY would want these people as their neighbors. They were loyal to their neighbors. Only when it was abundantly clear that there was no hope in one direction did they switch gears to go from NFC to Sparta and finally decide to leave.
They fought their hearts out to the very end. I've heard praise on GTU on all sides. Yet, without a doubt, I can't help but feel that they are the victims here. Whoever wins, GTU lost it all.
By the way, my main is Alekhine Atrebates but for some reason, despite switching things in settings, I always show up as Akopian Atrebates. Well, Alekhine is the main, and I'm not trying to hide my identity here.
So I think, whoever prevails in Deklein, that they should remember that GTU consistently was interested in local stability so that they could do what they loved in Deklein. They fought hard to preserve their home and I'm sure that they would do it again--once they regroup. I think whoever prevails in Deklein would do well to carve out a place in Deklein for this basically peaceful corp that yet had the grit to give it all for themselves and their neighborhood. Who could ask for a better neighbor?
|
Berrik Radhok
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 00:21:00 -
[3]
Hopefully you folks get back on your feet soon and will be able to return to your home someday Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content - Cortes |
liquidism
Asgard Schiffswerften Dusk and Dawn
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 00:26:00 -
[4]
sad story m8 tbh i didnt get the reason for the nfc/fla war at all, all i know is sparta napped the goons and we did what has to be done with backstabbers. lets see how this thingy evolves..
good luck on your future endeavors!
|
Bitter Vet
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 00:32:00 -
[5]
D2 is just reminding all the other slave corps what happens when you get uppity and want your own space
|
Hampstah
Chosen Path Center for Disease Creation
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 00:35:00 -
[6]
A rare, honest and from the heart post - reminds me of the early days of EVE. I hope you find a good home and good luck in the future. ----- http://www.epicfaction.com/images/hampsig4.jpg Beware Rodentz with Gunz
Max signature size is 400x120 pixels and 24,000 bytes. Email us for questions ([email protected]) -Eldo
|
Bavarian Punk
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 00:53:00 -
[7]
Very good post, mate! I almost cried
Maybe the time in Deklein doesn't have to be over and the corp can now finally find the peace and stability that you/they were looking for. ---
Go buy your stuff at T R U S T Shop |
Dinique
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 00:56:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Bitter Vet D2 is just reminding all the other slave corps what happens when you get uppity and want your own space
*****s a whip
MORE CROK FFS I NEED MORE CROKITE. _____
There's so many different worlds So many different suns And we have just one world But we live in different ones
|
Aramark
Total Warehouse Logistics
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 01:13:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Bitter Vet D2 is just reminding all the other slave corps what happens when you get uppity and want your own space
i don't know if you hate D2, or want to be them. you jump in every thread and have to "OMG D2 DID ....." it is all D2's fault that sparta napped Goons and set all there old friends to -10 if you need someone to talk to so bad i'm here to listen bitter alt.. i mean vet. just remember even when everyone hates you on the forums.. i have alittle place in my heart for you.
Aasia: Are you implying you are mean by nature and it requires conscious choice on your part to fight your nature and be nice? Aramark: yes |
Calenth
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 01:57:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Aramark
Originally by: Bitter Vet D2 is just reminding all the other slave corps what happens when you get uppity and want your own space
i don't know if you hate D2, or want to be them. you jump in every thread and have to "OMG D2 DID ....." it is all D2's fault that sparta napped Goons and set all there old friends to -10 if you need someone to talk to so bad i'm here to listen bitter alt.. i mean vet. just remember even when everyone hates you on the forums.. i have alittle place in my heart for you.
Sparta only nap'd us goons because d2 had already hung them out to dry by refusing to support them in the face of IRON's attack. I really feel for the Sparta folks because d2's failure to support them basically left them in an unwinnable situation.
|
|
Aramark
Total Warehouse Logistics
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 02:09:00 -
[11]
oh ok. Calenth you can have a hug too.. but thats where i draw the line... oh BTW D2 wasn't busy at that time were they.. they were just sitting around, passin the pipe..
Aasia: Are you implying you are mean by nature and it requires conscious choice on your part to fight your nature and be nice? Aramark: yes |
Zimi Vlasic
F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 02:19:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Zimi Vlasic on 19/07/2006 02:20:23
Originally by: Calenth
Originally by: Aramark
Originally by: Bitter Vet D2 is just reminding all the other slave corps what happens when you get uppity and want your own space
i don't know if you hate D2, or want to be them. you jump in every thread and have to "OMG D2 DID ....." it is all D2's fault that sparta napped Goons and set all there old friends to -10 if you need someone to talk to so bad i'm here to listen bitter alt.. i mean vet. just remember even when everyone hates you on the forums.. i have alittle place in my heart for you.
Sparta only nap'd us goons because d2 had already hung them out to dry by refusing to support them in the face of IRON's attack. I really feel for the Sparta folks because d2's failure to support them basically left them in an unwinnable situation.
This line of reasoning just makes no sense.
D2 didn't want to shoot at friends so they stayed out of the conflict. Sparta may have given support to D2, but so had IRON. Both alliances were friends, and Sparta wanted them to pick sides.
Not to mention the fact that D2 was already previously engaged.
Sparta got what they wanted, really. they forced D2 to pick a side.
|
Cringeley
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 02:19:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Aramark oh ok. Calenth you can have a hug too.. but thats where i draw the line... oh BTW D2 wasn't busy at that time were they.. they were just sitting around, passin the pipe..
And of course Sparta weren't sending ships down to fight us in XZH
I can only say how it looks from the outside, and how it looks is that D2 slipped their old friends IRON the word that it would be fine to push more recent residents out of Deklein and that D2 wouldn't stop them, which is a lousy thing to do to people who were contributing significantly to external defense.
--------------------------------------------
Thrice is he armed who has his quarrel just, But four times he who gets his blow in fust. |
Calenth
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 02:30:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Calenth on 19/07/2006 02:31:51
Originally by: Zimi Vlasic
This line of reasoning just makes no sense.
D2 didn't want to shoot at friends so they stayed out of the conflict. Sparta may have given support to D2, but so had IRON. Both alliances were friends, and Sparta wanted them to pick sides.
Not to mention the fact that D2 was already previously engaged.
Sparta got what they wanted, really. they forced D2 to pick a side.
\ That really doesn't make sense at all. For one thing, d2 wasn't even neutral, because they were allowing IRON to stage dreads out of d2 stations for attacks against Sparta and NFC -- we know that for a fact, because we killed two IRON dreads (out of four, the other two docked successfully) while they were docking at a d2 station. Secondly, even if d2 had actually been acting neutral, that very neutrality in the face of IRON's aggression showed pretty clearly that d2 valued IRON's friendship more than they valued Sparta's. If one of my friends starts punching another friend of mine, and I don't do anything to stop them, it's pretty clear which friend I value more.
D2 had quite obviously picked a side from the moment they allowed IRON to aggress Sparta and NFC without intervening to stop the conflict or force a peaceful resolution. Their feigned neutrality was a facade that's been pretty clearly exploded by now. I just feel sorry for the folks in Sparta who got hung out to dry by their former friends.
|
Zimi Vlasic
F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 02:37:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Zimi Vlasic on 19/07/2006 02:38:47 (Sparta was docking and ratting in Fade with no problems at all during the conflict as well. who says they couldn't have staged dreads there?)
Well, before the NAP with you guys anyhow.
|
Zen TseTse
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 02:41:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Zen TseTse on 19/07/2006 02:41:46
Originally by: Cringeley
Originally by: Aramark oh ok. Calenth you can have a hug too.. but thats where i draw the line... oh BTW D2 wasn't busy at that time were they.. they were just sitting around, passin the pipe..
And of course Sparta weren't sending ships down to fight us in XZH
I can only say how it looks from the outside, and how it looks is that D2 slipped their old friends IRON the word that it would be fine to push more recent residents out of Deklein and that D2 wouldn't stop them, which is a lousy thing to do to people who were contributing significantly to external defense.
Listen... ive seen this discussed on several forums and i think Goons have been fed a lot of non-sense and are repeating it.
D2 was nuetral, from what i can tell, in a battle among D2 friends. You cite things D2 did "to sparta" yet sparta had all these same rights that IRON had. It's a false argument.
In the end, frankly, perhaps if sparta felt the need to be independent they'd have a right to do so... but these arguments have been shown over and over again to have no grounds whatsoever.
They didnt become nuetral to D2, but instead they crossed ALL of Fade and lost tons of their own best pvp players in the process. It was non-sense and folly.
In my short time here i've come to respect a ton of (ex-)sparta people and i have no grudges against any of them.
I just personally think some really bad information and arguments swept through them, and frankly... goons tried to use them. They got burnt. ---------------------- Ф Blood Eagle ---------------------- |
Calenth
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 02:55:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Zimi Vlasic Edited by: Zimi Vlasic on 19/07/2006 02:38:47 (Sparta was docking and ratting in Fade with no problems at all during the conflict as well. who says they couldn't have staged dreads there?)
Well, before the NAP with you guys anyhow.
Heh, that wouldn't really have helped them any, though, would it? IRON was attacking them, not the reverse. Which is kinda the point.
Originally by: Zen TseTse
I just personally think some really bad information and arguments swept through them, and frankly... goons tried to use them. They got burnt.
All I can say is that, from the outside looking in, the folks in Sparta and NFC didn't have much, if any, choice once d2 chose not to support them. They tried fighting IRON and FLA on their own and that didn't work and NFC folded. So since that wasn't working, they tried allying with us goons instead, and we gave what help we could, but too many SPARTA member corps skipped out before our help could make a difference.
The real tragedy is that Sparta just didn't have any good options once d2 failed to support them. They turned to us out of desperation, but by then it was probably already too late, at least in terms of morale.
|
Furycharm
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 03:05:00 -
[18]
well as a SPARTA member (now ex for some reason :-P)
SPARTA COULDN'T HELP NFC due to external issues which I won't go into here
and then when sparta turned and said F you to D2 it was down to a choice...
we HAD TO fight the choice was
BOB or D2 and a few of the command decided that D2 was the target... in the end it turned out to be the wrong move...
yes I am posting from an alt.. but I WAS is SPARTA
|
Anille Kole
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 03:35:00 -
[19]
Quite a few of these GoonSwarm posts are somewhat silly..... Shoo bees!
Not only was IRON's aggression in this conflict warranted, since Sparta not only broke off contact after declaring they were taking all of the NFC space that IRON/FLA/friends were claiming, but absorbed most of the NFC that were fighting IRON/FLA/friends. This included the propaganda spewing Avril Dewar and David Hope that helped start the NFC conflict. Therefore, not only did D2 have to decide between friends in a conflict while it had its hands full trying to keep bees out of its pants, but it had to choose between, in the case of Sparta, a group of friends trying to take the territory they earned, and a group of friends who changed leadership drastically and started trying to take over more space than was warranted, in addition to working with the Goons. Besides, why would they sacrifice forces to stop a war when it's fairly obvious to everyone but the propaganda alts, enemies, and complete idiots that it's entirely neccesary?
Seems pretty cut and dry when you look at the big picture, don't it? Sparta not only harbored the remnants of NFC that wanted to abuse their neutrality, but in doing so they revealed their turncoat nature and ****ed off not only their allies, but their own members that joined just to return to peace in the region they loved.
Lovable alt. <3 |
Cringeley
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 03:43:00 -
[20]
See it's the IRON posts that always make the whole thing seem sinister to me. You talk about Sparta trying to "take" space that IRON and FLA were "claiming", so just answer straight up, did NFC and Sparta try to take IRON and FLA territory, or did IRON and FLA instead decide that some of the territory that NFC and Sparta thought was theirs' would actually look much nicer on IRON's mantelpiece? Everything I have heard so far leads me to believe that IRON were the aggressors, from a territorial standpoint.
--------------------------------------------
Thrice is he armed who has his quarrel just, But four times he who gets his blow in fust. |
|
Nahual
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 04:09:00 -
[21]
Good post @ OP, more of you were in eve then we'd be lucky! Best luck for the future and I know when I lived in dek GTU were a great help!
At rest of posters: shut the **** up about sparta/nfc/fla/iron thing, there is 15 other threads concerning the topic, if you want to send another one towards "discussion" well cant stop ya! You're saying the same argument again and again, it's like watching the same TV episode 20 times in a row... -----------------------------------------------
|
Akopian Atrebates
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 04:15:00 -
[22]
I didn't realize I was creating an occasion to rehash all the confusion and accusations behind the Deklein conflicts, but I guess it underscores just how confusing things were and how the honest to goodness efforts of a corporation like GTU to hold its own could be swept aside by the bigger picture.
Still when it is all said and done, I still think the same thing regardless of who is at fault or not. I've been accused of being overly dramatic for saying this here, but I truly believe it. GTU would be a great neighbor regardless of who wins out in Deklein and it would just make the world of EVE seem a little more just and a little less capricious if GTU were given back their small share of Deklein.
I hope that basic message isn't lost in the maelstrom of accusations and reciminations I see here and elsewhere.
So for my last bit of drama,
FAREWELL GTU and FAREWELL DEKLEIN!
|
Lorth
Synchro.
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 04:17:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Calenth
Originally by: Zimi Vlasic Edited by: Zimi Vlasic on 19/07/2006 02:38:47 (Sparta was docking and ratting in Fade with no problems at all during the conflict as well. who says they couldn't have staged dreads there?)
Well, before the NAP with you guys anyhow.
Heh, that wouldn't really have helped them any, though, would it? IRON was attacking them, not the reverse. Which is kinda the point.
Originally by: Zen TseTse
I just personally think some really bad information and arguments swept through them, and frankly... goons tried to use them. They got burnt.
All I can say is that, from the outside looking in, the folks in Sparta and NFC didn't have much, if any, choice once d2 chose not to support them. They tried fighting IRON and FLA on their own and that didn't work and NFC folded. So since that wasn't working, they tried allying with us goons instead, and we gave what help we could, but too many SPARTA member corps skipped out before our help could make a difference.
The real tragedy is that Sparta just didn't have any good options once d2 failed to support them. They turned to us out of desperation, but by then it was probably already too late, at least in terms of morale.
Don't ever try an pin this on D2. You know as well as I do that the situation in dek, for D2 was a fight between two sides that were both at posisitve standings to D2.
***** all you want about sparta not getting help from D2. But the fact of the matter is niether side had anthing to do with D2 untll Sarata decided that since they weren't helping them they must be enemys.
------------- Recruit me |
BuSHiDo ZiN
GoonWaffe GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 05:09:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Lorth
Originally by: Calenth quote pyramid
Don't ever try an pin this on D2. You know as well as I do that the situation in dek, for D2 was a fight between two sides that were both at posisitve standings to D2.
***** all you want about sparta not getting help from D2. But the fact of the matter is niether side had anthing to do with D2 untll Sarata decided that since they weren't helping them they must be enemys.
What about the IRON dreads that were staging from your stations?
|
31i73
BGG Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 05:21:00 -
[25]
Why every thread about deklein gets jumped by the legion of goons & alts? And flaming D2? Get over it, D2 is enemy of goons and their allies. duh
To the OP:
I'm not very touched. You just wanted to mine, but HAD to attack FLA? (first fla/nfc war AKA the great backstab) Riight. Your corp should have been more aware. There was plenty of info available here on what is happening. You reap what you sow..
|
Fred0
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 05:35:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Bitter Vet D2 is just reminding all the other slave corps what happens when you get uppity and want your own space
The upper level goon alts are so cute nowadays.
|
Sharcy
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 06:49:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Nahual Good post @ OP, more of you were in eve then we'd be lucky! <...>
At rest of posters: shut the **** up about sparta/nfc/fla/iron thing, there is 15 other threads concerning the topic
Amen to that. I love all the soap & drama, but a thread like this from someone who speaks from his heart shouldn't be derailed.
--
Sonnema is recruiting! |
Darko1107
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 07:03:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Calenth
Originally by: Aramark
Originally by: Bitter Vet D2 is just reminding all the other slave corps what happens when you get uppity and want your own space
i don't know if you hate D2, or want to be them. you jump in every thread and have to "OMG D2 DID ....." it is all D2's fault that sparta napped Goons and set all there old friends to -10 if you need someone to talk to so bad i'm here to listen bitter alt.. i mean vet. just remember even when everyone hates you on the forums.. i have alittle place in my heart for you.
Sparta only nap'd us goons because d2 had already hung them out to dry by refusing to support them in the face of IRON's attack. I really feel for the Sparta folks because d2's failure to support them basically left them in an unwinnable situation.
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. We had no intentions to attack sparta until alot of NFC joined them and then wouldnt hand over VFK OR JU, which were basically still controlled by NFC under a different name.
------------------
Sig removed, please keep it under the 24,000 byte limit, if you have any questions please email [email protected] - Xorus |
Hamish
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 07:15:00 -
[29]
damn that really sucks :( |
Cringeley
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.19 07:21:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Darko1107
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. We had no intentions to attack sparta until alot of NFC joined them and then wouldnt hand over VFK OR JU, which were basically still controlled by NFC under a different name.
What was your claim to VFK and JU?
--------------------------------------------
Thrice is he armed who has his quarrel just, But four times he who gets his blow in fust. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |