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Eagle = Red headed step child of HACs?

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Ender Fal Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.20 00:21:00 - [1] Why is the Eagle hardly ever used or talked about? It's always about the Cerebus, which is why those prices are so ungodly. Is it because most people flying them want on missles? The tank is just as good, and most of the attributes are actually a little better. What makes it a Tier 1 Tech 2 ship? Now, as a recent and non-seasoned HAC pilot, of course I went for a Cerebus. Thats what everyone said to get. "Ignore the Eagle, get the Cerebus!!!" It's almost like a really really really really good marketing campaign by the few people that own the Cerebus BPOs. My question is this: Is the Eagle just as good as the Cerebus? In PVP? In PVE? In Missions? I want to get an Eagle so I can actually afford to fit the darn ship! But I'm afraid that I won't be able to solo my lvl 4's in it. I'm not worried about tank, the tank is fine as the resists are the same. I'm worried about DPS. I have 5.5 mil SP in Missles, and 1 mil SP in Gunnery. Is it worth it for me to get an Eagle? Or should I just go all the way again and get a second mortgage on my Pod???
Outa Rileau	Posted - 2006.07.20 00:23:00 - [2] Edited by: Outa Rileau on 20/07/2006 00:23:28 go for the cerb. It uses no cap on weapons, it can fit the same tank and you dont have to worry about range... ... and obviously you have better skills for it ------------------------- Getting Sig Removed / Rank 8 / SP: 762039 of 2048000
Stamm Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.20 00:31:00 - [3] Eagle is less expensive because there's less demand for it. Caldari pilots have missile skills generally speaking (I'm sure some smart arse can post and say they have mainly gunnery skills, but generally it's missile), hence why so many people go for it. Missiles are better than guns for missions, they don't miss, and they do 100% of the damage type you want them to. For PvP the eagle is a supreme sniper. Got a pack of BSs you've sniper fitted, want to stop that inty flying towards you? Eagle pops it.
Ghoest	Posted - 2006.07.20 00:35:00 - [4] I have started using a Beagle(all T2 equoment) for missions. Im a bit disappointed. My old rail Ferox(all T2) does them better. I think the real problem with the Eagle is no drones at all. It really should have 25 units of drone space. It wouldnt have any effect on the PvP balance of sniper Eagles, because if they get close nough for drones they are screwd anyway and drones wont save them. Wherever you went - here you are.
Outa Rileau	Posted - 2006.07.20 00:36:00 - [5] Originally by: Ghoest I have started using a Beagle(all T2 equoment) for missions. Im a bit disappointed. My old rail Ferox(all T2) does them better. I think the real problem with the Eagle is no drones at all. It really should have 25 units of drone space. It wouldnt have any effect on the PvP balance of sniper Eagles, because if they get close nough for drones they are screwd anyway and drones wont save them. You can't compare a Beagle to a Railrox ------------------------- Getting Sig Removed / Rank 8 / SP: 762039 of 2048000
Nemain Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.20 00:55:00 - [6] Sadly the eagle fits into the runt catagory for T2 ships, each race has one, Galante get the deimos, Minmatar get the Muninn and Amarr get the sacrilige. Each is rather specialised or just isn't quite as usefull pvp wise compared to the other HAC for each race. Thats not to say they are useless tho (ok the sacrillege verges on it, and thats the last you will here from me on that matter). The eagle as mentioned is a very good sniper, it's an excelent support ship for picking off frigs at extreme range, it is also a better tank than the cerb (ok maybe not so much when you factor in the weapons cap usage, but definetly on resists). The Cerb is popular because its a bit of a jack of all trades and can operate at any range, the eagle on the other hand has put all it's eggs in one basket (either long or short range, not both), and does what it does very well. The blaster eagle is a popular choice at present, and can be a suprise to many, so it's not entirely inflexible, just less so than a cerb.
Nooey Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2006.07.20 03:29:00 - [7] The Eagle is a fantastic HAC and a real steal at it's current price. It's a lot more versatile than people will often give it credit for. It's viable with both long-range setups and short-range setups, in both PvE and PvP. The Long-Range Eagle, where it really shines, is quite a spectacle and alone worth the money you pay for one, not evne factoring the attractive possibilities available with some close-range rigs. This is a typical Mission Rig that uses Rails. For PvE you want Rails since having range is important for churning through missions without having to close range on every single ship with blasters. High: 2xAssault Missile Launcher II's 4x250mm Railgun II's Med: Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II Medium Shield Booster II Fleeting Webifier 10mn Afterburner II Low: Power Diagnostic II x 2 Magnetic Field Stabilizer II x 2. This is what I use to work through lowsec level 3's (In my opinion, a better solo earner in terms of ISK/Hour, with the right skills and agent, than IV's). It hits with Antimatter with an optimal around 35km, with a falloff around 15km, meaning an effective engagement range of 50km. You instapop frigates at range, or as they close. If they do close range, or start off close to you, web them and either close towards them or fly away from them with your afterburner, lowering your transversal, which will land shots on them even with 250 II's, and with the added DPS of dual Assault II's, you're not ever going to be worried about close-range frigates. It can tank any Level 3 Mission with relative ease. Some of the harder missions need to be approched properly or they'll require a warp out. This is a fleet fitting for long range. PvP. High: 2xAssault Missile Launcher II's 4x250mm Railgun II's Medium: 2xSensor Booster II's 2xTracking Computer II's Medium Shield Booster II OR 10MN Afterburner II OR Additional Sensor Booster II (It really is up to you, each choice has its own merits of adding moderate safety with a light tank, manouverability in areas without instas, or extra engagement flexibility with the ability to lock out to almost Maximum range) I kinda forget how far 3xSB II with Long Range Targetting V gets you, but it's around 240km I think. Low:* Either All Magnetic Field Stabilizer II's Or 3xMagnetic Field Stabilizer II's 1xTracking Enchancer II, which will put your Optimal with Spike at around 220km, meaning almost the maximum possible engagement envelope. This variant of the eagle just murders small ships. Period. It can pop an interceptor and the pod in just a few volleys if they are sitting at maximum range or being careless with their transversal. Spike does 75% of the damage of Antimatter, and it does it with EXTREME range. And now for the close-range Blaster Eagle for PvP. This is just a rig I've been playing with on Sisi. High: 4xHeavy Ion Blaster II's 2xMedium Nosferatu II Med: Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier Photon Scattering Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Injector with 800 Charges loaded and 10 in Cargo Low:[/b] 3xPower Diagnostic System II's. 1xInternal Force Field Array (Or best Dmg Control you can afford) This thing is obviously not a solo rig, and needs tackle support. With Null M it can hit out to 16km. With Void it can hit around 5-6km if I recall correctly. Once it manages to get both Nosferatu on something, it barely needs to even inject due to a super recharge rate, coupled with resistances ranging from 88% upwards. Basically it tanks like an absolute monster whilst still delivering decent DPS. It's the ship you drop into the middle of an enemy gang to get them all to agress. It will live long enough for the Cavalry to arrive, easily. For those that don't believe me, try it on Sisi sometime, I tanked two Geddons in this baby. Things got rather silly when I plugged the Crystals in! ____
Sorja	Posted - 2006.07.20 03:31:00 - [8] I'm Caldari and have gunnery trained (medium rails/blasters specialized). The Eagle is good at sniping. That's it. So, basically, it sucks. It's a very nice ship for PvE though, if you like rails or can't afford the outrageously high prices of the Cerberus. I killed Rachen Mysuna solo in a Vengeance level 4 with a blaster Eagle, but other races hacs could do that too... faster. Unfortunately, Tuxford discarded all the points brought to the table about the Moa/Eagle weaknesses, making them the worst ships of their category if you are not born a wussy sniper.
Double TaP The Establishment	Posted - 2006.07.20 04:42:00 - [9] Missiles are not better for pve. Guns can get the job done better. Missiles require little effort though, so its something someone can do easy after a long day at work (or at work, lol) without having to pay as much attention.
Nikolai Nuvolari Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.20 06:16:00 - [10] Edited by: Nikolai Nuvolari on 20/07/2006 06:17:09 Originally by: Stamm Caldari pilots have missile skills generally speaking (I'm sure some smart arse can post and say they have mainly gunnery skills, but generally it's missile), hence why so many people go for it. I'm Caldari, I'm a smartass, and I have about 6.5mil in gunnery vs 71K in missiles. You called? As for being the redheaded stepchild of ALL assault frigs...yes, it is. It's really only good at one thing, sniping frigates at range. Honestly, that's a TERRIBLY pathetic job for an assault cruiser. Even the Beagle is pretty lame. I mean sure, it's a bit of a surprise, but the Deimos is actually good at short-range combat, whereas the Beagle is pretty half-assed...optimal range isn't even a good bonus for blasters, because most of your range is from falloff. EDIT: Anyway, the Eagle really needs its hardpoint split changed from 4/2 to 5/1, and a slight powergrid boost to facilitate that. ------------------ Originally by: kieron Buy ISK for RL cash here! Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!

Hitomi Ayame Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.20 06:24:00 - [11] The Eagle is useful. Try flying a Sacrilege some time. But seriously, I've seen some nasty Beagles. Serisouly scary stuff. - - - The Royal Knights of Khanid are now recruiting! Step up and serve God and Khanid today!
Crellion	Posted - 2006.07.20 07:08:00 - [12] 5th turret (with the grid it needs) would be super. Even an extra mid for one less low would make it a passable Beagle though. Mwd web scram Em Extender med booster are all needed (are injector large booster instead of extender med booster). With 5 slots you cant have a good solo Beagle and in gang the raileagle is better anyway... so meh. (When I say in gang the rail eagle is better than beagle I dont mean the one with 3 sensor bs 2 track comps 3 mfsII and 1 enhancer; I mean the ab /web /sens b /shield b/ Em hard, 3mfsII 1pduII... thts a nice small gang set up...In fact if you are certain of good tackling suypprt even ditch the web for injector/extender/track comp) Essentially problem with Beagle is this: (starting range 15-20km) 1 Deimos > 1 Beagle 2 Deimoi > 2 Beagles 1 Deimos > 1 Raileagle 2 Deimooi < 2 Raileagles 3xDemoi <<< 3xRaileagles If you see what I mean...
Nikolai Nuvolari Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.20 07:19:00 - [13] Originally by: Crellion 5th turret (with the grid it needs) would be super. Yes. Originally by: Crellion Even an extra mid for one less low would make it a passable Beagle though. No. The Eagle needs to be balanced for rails, not blasters. If you want to make a half-assed blaster ship out of a rail sniper, fine, that's creative, but the ship shouldn't be balanced for that. ------------------ Originally by: kieron Buy ISK for RL cash here! Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
Meat Sauce	Posted - 2006.07.20 07:28:00 - [14] I'd be willing to take any cerb pilot 1v1 in my eagle. Just g-mail me and we will organize it.
ELECTR0FREAK Eye of God	Posted - 2006.07.20 07:30:00 - [15] IMO the Eagle is too specialized. Its a sniper BS wannabe simply because the Caldari have no other real sniper ships. Its basically just a means for Caldari to get in on sniper action. With the introduction of the Caldari Tier 3 Rail BS I think it'll lose most of it's functionality. The advantage of HACs vs BS is primarily mobility. Snipers don't use a lot of mobility in general. The new Caldari BS will probably overshadow the Eagle and make it somewhat obsolete. I asked for it months ago. Take off 1 of the optimal range bonuses and swap it for a RoF bonus. The Eagle would gain enough firepower to be an effective mid-range HAC that focuses on a balance between a decent tank and acceptable firepower. I think that could be it's new purpose. -Electrofreak Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
Nikolai Nuvolari Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.20 07:36:00 - [16] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK With the introduction of the Caldari Tier 3 Rail BS I think it'll lose most of it's functionality. Yeah, when the Tier 3 comes out, I'll probably stop flying my Eagle entirely. Twice the number of guns, plus the flexibility of all the extra slots? I mean I'd like to have the extra mobility, but the Eagle is pretty limited as a sniper. Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Take off 1 of the optimal range bonuses and swap it for a RoF bonus. The Eagle would gain enough firepower to be an effective mid-range HAC that focuses on a balance between a decent tank and acceptable firepower. I think that could be it's new purpose. Hybrids never get RoF bonuses ------------------ Originally by: kieron Buy ISK for RL cash here! Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
ELECTR0FREAK Eye of God	Posted - 2006.07.20 07:43:00 - [17] Edited by: ELECTR0FREAK on 20/07/2006 07:45:51 Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Hybrids never get RoF bonuses We can dream... I say RoF bonus because We'd need to add firepower while differentiating the ship from the Gallente. Best I could come up with Another idea was tracking speed but that is SO Minmatar -Electrofreak Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
ZelRox Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.20 07:45:00 - [18] I think eagles do just fine. Highly specialized role, but damn they are good at it. WTB 250km optimal on my munin. ---------------------- I got pwnt by the giggling admiral BiH 4tw
ELECTR0FREAK Eye of God	Posted - 2006.07.20 07:48:00 - [19] Originally by: ZelRox I think eagles do just fine. Highly specialized role, but damn they are good at it. WTB 250km optimal on my munin. Tell me one thing the Eagle will be able to do that a Tier 3 Caldari Rail BS with T2 large hybrid turrets and ammo won't be able to do just as well? AND, how much you want to bet that the Caldari Rail BS will have some drone bay to deal with pesky smaller ships like Interceptors? -Electrofreak Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
Sharrow Za	Posted - 2006.07.20 07:57:00 - [20] Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Originally by: ZelRox I think eagles do just fine. Highly specialized role, but damn they are good at it. WTB 250km optimal on my munin. Tell me one thing the Eagle will be able to do that a Tier 3 Caldari Rail BS with T2 large hybrid turrets and ammo won't be able to do just as well? AND, how much you want to bet that the Caldari Rail BS will have some drone bay to deal with pesky smaller ships like Interceptors? Er, what kind of reasoning is that? Show me one thing an ishtar can do that a dominix can't do just as well? Or a zealot vs a geddon? etc etc... The point is the HACs are a lot nimbler and in many cases tougher than the battleships, which won't change unless the tier3 battleships are going to be fast and have tech2 resists, which isn't the case...

Meat Sauce	Posted - 2006.07.20 08:08:00 - [21] So my offer still stands against a Cerb, but on a side note. I can use large t2 rails and fly a sniper Mega for fleet, but have caldari BS to 4. As soon as the tier 3 caldari rail ship comes out I am on it like a fat kid on cake. 250km sniper ftw.
Antwon Stylez	Posted - 2006.07.20 09:12:00 - [22] name another cruiser that can snipe and stay out of sentry gun range. just do that all day, have an alt on the gate to pick up loot, and make isk for a cerb... but if your not a pirate, then, uh.. err.. ?..
Hoshi Blackguard Brigade Curse Coalition	Posted - 2006.07.20 10:12:00 - [23] Originally by: Sharrow Za Originally by: ELECTR0FREAK Tell me one thing the Eagle will be able to do that a Tier 3 Caldari Rail BS with T2 large hybrid turrets and ammo won't be able to do just as well? AND, how much you want to bet that the Caldari Rail BS will have some drone bay to deal with pesky smaller ships like Interceptors? Er, what kind of reasoning is that? Show me one thing an ishtar can do that a dominix can't do just as well? Or a zealot vs a geddon? etc etc... The point is the HACs are a lot nimbler and in many cases tougher than the battleships, which won't change unless the tier3 battleships are going to be fast and have tech2 resists, which isn't the case... For a short to mid range ship speed and agility is important but as the range grow the need for that shrink. Same with tanking ability. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aram Gishno Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.20 10:37:00 - [24] Keep underestimating and underpricing (compared to other HACs) this great, great ship. With The Correct Setup(TM) it has insane locking times, and is great for popping careless Cov-Ops pilots or other small ships instantly. Tired of the ceptors getting all the kills in your gang? Switch to an Instapopinator Eagle(TM) today! :D
MECHcore Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2006.07.20 11:51:00 - [25] The nos beagle is awesome for pvp , 2x med nos T2 gives u a nice cap addition to maintain ur tank while dealing decent dps with ur T2 ions. For pve i use my beagle with T2 neutrons and its capable of dealing nice damage , as can be seen below 2006.07.19 15:09:27 combat Your Heavy Neutron Blaster II perfectly strikes Serpentis Flotilla Admiral, wrecking for 959.2 damage. It was on structure offcorse , but afterall not to bad
Torath Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.20 11:53:00 - [26] The longer the Eagle is poo poo'd as being a half a$$ed redheaded second class junk pile the longer us users can wallow in the benifits of knowing how to fly such a ship. Its always easy to pick on something you dont know anything about or compare out of context with other ships. So keep it up for a long time please.... ...oh one last thing 110mil against 160+ mil says it all. You want it I got it....erm unless I sold it, then some one else has it!?! :/
Gee'Kin Tha Specialz	Posted - 2006.07.20 13:24:00 - [27] pos : good tank , uber range bonus on rails. neg : ugly , plz remove the 2 missle slots ! fantastic lvl 3 mission runner tho. 6 rails on a eagle would be nice .. yeah dream on :s --------------------------------------------> Plz tickle my brain. I wanna have a Brainfart ! -------------------------------------------->
Nikolai Nuvolari Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.20 14:42:00 - [28] Originally by: Aram Gishno Keep underestimating and underpricing (compared to other HACs) this great, great ship. With The Correct Setup(TM) it has insane locking times, and is great for popping careless Cov-Ops pilots or other small ships instantly. Tired of the ceptors getting all the kills in your gang? Switch to an Instapopinator Eagle(TM) today! :D Doesn't it bother you that an assault cruiser worth more than a battleship is only good for shooting frigates, and would have trouble killing most T1 cruisers? Originally by: Gee'Kin plz remove the 2 missle slots ! But only in exchange for another turret! ------------------ Originally by: kieron Buy ISK for RL cash here! Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
Escobar Noreaga Kings of Kill	Posted - 2006.07.20 16:34:00 - [29] Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari Doesn't it bother you that an assault cruiser worth more than a battleship is only good for shooting frigates, and would have trouble killing most T1 cruisers? This is a laughable response. I'll take any t1 cruiser any day of the week. And idk how many people still fit rails on their eagles, but i don't. Eagle w/ rails has such a limited role. Fit blasters and go blow ** up. T2 neutrons pack quite a punch. ------------------------------------------------- Pimpin Hoes and Slammin Cadillac Doors...... I'm stealth like a robot hidden in the fat ***** of Cartman.....
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Kimotoro Directive	Posted - 2006.07.20 16:36:00 - [30] Originally by: Nemain Sadly the eagle fits into the runt catagory for T2 ships, each race has one, Galante get the deimos, Minmatar get the Muninn and Amarr get the sacrilige. Oh yeah, the Deimos, Muninn and Sac are really runts... The Eagle's nice for popping frigs at 200km but that's really it tbh.



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