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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
interstellar initiative Incorporated
303
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Posted - 2014.08.20 21:44:58 -
[31] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Rek Seven wrote:...I have spoken to many corporations in wormhole space who say they are seeing some of their members turning to incursions to plex their accounts. As you pretty much have to be 100% dedicated to live in wormhole space within a PVP corp, these members end up leaving wormholes to run incursions or simply leave the game all together because they are tired of the grind. My experience in WH space suggests the bleeding of income focused play to incursions is self inflicted. If you are in a WH PvP corp it's reasonable to expect that PvE isk making opportunities will be concentrated into short, highly focused periods for both reasons of interest in the task and security. The rest of the time is understandably PvP focused, often to the point of closing some lesser PvE opportunities for any PvP opportunities. That limits the in WH options available for members that miss the boat or have need or desire of excess beyond what the corp/alliance is willing to collectively support. If a corp wants to have a PvP focus it should be a given that some of their members will seek the most effective outside source of isk.
Not too mention that WH's don't currently have the ISK potential that they once did, so it makes sense for people to go grind incursions to pay the ever-rising price of Plex. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
Ixtab.
1751
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Posted - 2014.08.20 22:00:00 -
[32] - Quote
What do you mean by "it makes sense"? Are you saying that it's a good thing that people are being driven out of wormhole space just to farm isk?
+1 |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
1939
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Posted - 2014.08.20 22:00:34 -
[33] - Quote
What do you mean by "it makes sense"? Are you saying that it's a good thing that people are being driven out of wormhole space just to farm isk?
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
If a corp wants to have a PvP focus it should be a given that some of their members will seek the most effective outside source of isk.
That's my point. Wormholers shouldn't have to look to outside sources to make isk but the combination of no risk + lots of isk in incursions, is driving people out.
+1
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Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1205
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Posted - 2014.08.20 22:01:00 -
[34] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:It's noting to do with ISK sinks. It's about how wealthy a player gets off running incursions and how that effects rest of the game.
*affects
Rek Seven wrote:I have spoken to many corporations in wormhole space who say they are seeing some of their members turning to incursions to plex their accounts. As you pretty much have to be 100% dedicated to live in wormhole space within a PVP corp, these members end up leaving wormholes to run incursions or simply leave the game all together because they are tired of the grind.
I never understood people who go to wormholes to grind ISK. The logistics are terrible, unless you're in a C1, and then the ISK isn't so great. No wonder they leave the game. I can tell you right now that that was never why I was in J-space. I was in J-space primarily because people I like were there, but it didn't hurt that it was unpredictable, interesting and profitable enough to keep me in ships.
If I ever decide to run Incursions, they'll be the low sec ones, because that will be kind of like running sites in a wormhole: not bad for EVE PVE, and somebody might show up to make it more interesting. If the group is chill and funny I might even stick around.
Seriously, EVE is not a game about burning yourself out doing something you hate. For the cost of a pizza, you can get yourself a whole bunch of ISK whenever you want it; failing that, there are a lot of ways to earn it in game. No matter what you do there will be some tedium involved, but you have to at least be able to tell yourself that it's a necessary part of doing something you want to do.
Basically, you can pick any part of the game with a NPC-bestowed award, and it will be less profitable than station trading. So is your argument that everyone should be station trading? No, that's silly.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables. |
Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1236
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:01:28 -
[35] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:It's noting to do with ISK sinks. It's about how wealthy a player gets off running incursions and how that effects rest of the game.
*affects
Rek Seven wrote:I have spoken to many corporations in wormhole space who say they are seeing some of their members turning to incursions to plex their accounts. As you pretty much have to be 100% dedicated to live in wormhole space within a PVP corp, these members end up leaving wormholes to run incursions or simply leave the game all together because they are tired of the grind.
I never understood people who go to wormholes to grind ISK. The logistics are terrible, unless you're in a C1, and then the ISK isn't so great. No wonder they leave the game. I can tell you right now that that was never why I was in J-space. I was in J-space primarily because people I like were there, but it didn't hurt that it was unpredictable, interesting and profitable enough to keep me in ships.
If I ever decide to run Incursions, they'll be the low sec ones, because that will be kind of like running sites in a wormhole: not bad for EVE PVE, and somebody might show up to make it more interesting. If the group is chill and funny I might even stick around.
Seriously, EVE is not a game about burning yourself out doing something you hate. For the cost of a pizza, you can get yourself a whole bunch of ISK whenever you want it; failing that, there are a lot of ways to earn it in game. No matter what you do there will be some tedium involved, but you have to at least be able to tell yourself that it's a necessary part of doing something you want to do.
You can pick any part of the game with a NPC-bestowed award, and it will be less profitable than station trading. So is your argument that everyone should be station trading? No, that's silly.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
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Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1236
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Posted - 2014.08.20 22:02:52 -
[36] - Quote
[forum burp]
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
Ixtab.
1751
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:12:00 -
[37] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:
You can pick any part of the game with a NPC-bestowed award, and it will be less profitable than station trading. So is your argument that everyone should be station trading? No, that's silly.
You have your spelling nailed but it doesn't look like you can read very well... My point was clear; the risk/reward of high sec incursions is driving people out of the part of space that rely on those very people for "content".
+1 |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
1939
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Posted - 2014.08.20 22:12:18 -
[38] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:
You can pick any part of the game with a NPC-bestowed award, and it will be less profitable than station trading. So is your argument that everyone should be station trading? No, that's silly.
You have your spelling nailed but it doesn't look like you can read very well... My point was clear; the risk/reward of high sec incursions is driving people out of the part of space that rely on those very people for "content".
Dersen Lowery wrote: counterinflationary.
*Counter-inflationary (i can be a prick too)
+1
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scorchlikeshiswhiskey
interstellar initiative Incorporated
239
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:33:00 -
[39] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:What do you mean by "it makes sense"? Are you saying that it's a good thing that people are being driven out of wormhole space just to farm isk? Tyberius Franklin wrote:
If a corp wants to have a PvP focus it should be a given that some of their members will seek the most effective outside source of isk.
That's my point. Wormholers shouldn't have to look to outside sources to make isk but the combination of no risk + lots of isk in incursions, is driving people out.
Edit: Forum ate my post, wait one |
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
interstellar initiative Incorporated
303
|
Posted - 2014.08.20 22:33:06 -
[40] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:What do you mean by "it makes sense"? Are you saying that it's a good thing that people are being driven out of wormhole space just to farm isk? Tyberius Franklin wrote:
If a corp wants to have a PvP focus it should be a given that some of their members will seek the most effective outside source of isk.
*Forum ate my first post, so here is V2 (Seriously CCP, can you fix the post eating?) That's my point. Wormholers shouldn't have to look to outside sources to make isk but the combination of no risk + lots of isk in incursions, is driving people out.
It makes sense given the cost of Plex vs the profitability of WH loot for people to have to move to running incursions to pay for Plex, and from what I have read of your posts you are probably against people grinding ISK in WH's too, but I could be wrong there.
Your post makes no sense, Incursions wouldn't drive people out of WH's if they were in a good place for income, Incursions provide an easier way for a small number of pilots (maybe they're in a different TZ than the primary one in the hole) to buy their Plex. As for the alleged "no risk", Null Sec can be made pretty safe with gate-bots and scouts so maybe we should fix that? Incursions are low risk because the communities made them that way, and gankers are too lazy/too busy whining on forums to actually work for their targets.
In conclusion, either show us on the doll where the Incursion touched you or take the time to figure out the real cause of the problems you perceive as plaguing Eve. |
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
1939
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Posted - 2014.08.20 23:01:10 -
[41] - Quote
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:Rek Seven wrote:What do you mean by "it makes sense"? Are you saying that it's a good thing that people are being driven out of wormhole space just to farm isk? Tyberius Franklin wrote:
If a corp wants to have a PvP focus it should be a given that some of their members will seek the most effective outside source of isk.
*Forum ate my first post, so here is V2 (Seriously CCP, can you fix the post eating?) That's my point. Wormholers shouldn't have to look to outside sources to make isk but the combination of no risk + lots of isk in incursions, is driving people out. It makes sense given the cost of Plex vs the profitability of WH loot for people to have to move to running incursions to pay for Plex, and from what I have read of your posts you are probably against people grinding ISK in WH's too, but I could be wrong there. Your post makes no sense, Incursions wouldn't drive people out of WH's if they were in a good place for income, Incursions provide an easier way for a small number of pilots (maybe they're in a different TZ than the primary one in the hole) to buy their Plex. As for the alleged "no risk", Null Sec can be made pretty safe with gate-bots and scouts so maybe we should fix that? Incursions are low risk because the communities made them that way, and gankers are too lazy/too busy whining on forums to actually work for their targets. In conclusion, either show us on the doll where the Incursion touched you or take the time to figure out the real cause of the problems you perceive as plaguing Eve.
err... I don't under... i can't... what the **** are you talking about dude? 
I don't think you really understand how this game works. I don't really want to waste my time in here anymore explaining to people how, if it is safer and easier to make isk in concord patrolled high sec, other parts of the game will suffer.
I have to put 6+ billion isk on the field in our wormhole before I can compete with incursion levels of income and at any point, someone can come and destroy it all without worrying about CONCORD swooping in to save the day... if you can't understand why some people choose to take the easy option (incursions) and how that is bad for the game, there's no point talking to you.
Goodbye o/
+1
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
1263
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Posted - 2014.08.20 23:21:31 -
[42] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:What do you mean by "it makes sense"? Are you saying that it's a good thing that people are being driven out of wormhole space just to farm isk? Tyberius Franklin wrote:
If a corp wants to have a PvP focus it should be a given that some of their members will seek the most effective outside source of isk.
That's my point. Wormholers shouldn't have to look to outside sources to make isk but the combination of no risk + lots of isk in incursions, is driving people out. I mean that while both are team efforts one is open to PUG's and thus you don't need a small set group of select people to be ready at that time to partake. You can join up with any of the other groups already running.
If it's a WH PvP corp then they probably spend a significant time PvP'ing. If your WH corp is hunting for PvP you aren't making much isk most likely. If you want to earn isk you obviously go elsewhere during that time. Highsec in general is the easiest place to farm, regardless of the content. Incursions are the most lucrative highsec content.
"WH'ers shouldn't have too look elsewhere" is an unrealistic expectation that assumes we all have a full C5 escalation fleet and the sites at our disposal whenever each individual wants to get paid. It also assumes no determined hostile activity, which has always benefited highsec in general. Though contrary to your statement no one is being driven there, they go there of their own free will to make what they need beyond what their corp mates feel need to actively support. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
174
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Posted - 2014.08.22 00:35:16 -
[43] - Quote
Big fan of the changes, and highsec incursions are definitely one of the success stories of Eve. The fact that less than 1% of Eve players logged in at any given time are running highsec incursions strongly indicates that the risk/reward balance is perfectly fine. In the future I would love to see some new sites, and perhaps a more difficult MOM site to prevent some of the ragepopping. |
Faraboot
BALKAN EXPRESS
1
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Posted - 2014.08.22 05:49:13 -
[44] - Quote
I've got a lock asking one simple question regarding incursions, directed to this thread instead, so I guess this is the place to ask the question.
Quote:I noticed one little thing that keeps getting overlooked, and it wasn't mentioned in a dev blog regarding Incursion changes in Hyperion, and that is low sec Incursions.
For example, there are always 2 Incursion sites in both high sec and null, but always 1 site in low sec. May I ask is there a valid reason for this?
Can I get a dev to answer this perhaps, since there is no mention of it anywhere in the forums (correct me if I'm wrong), or in the dev blog regarding the Incursion changes in Hyperion. Tyvm. |
SFX Bladerunner
Black Serpent Technologies
The Unthinkables
2
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Posted - 2014.08.22 07:56:43 -
[45] - Quote
"Not too mention that WH's don't currently have the ISK potential that they once did, so it makes sense for people to go grind incursions to pay the ever-rising price of Plex. "
Interesting to me would be -why- Plex prices (in ISK) are 'ever-rising'.
Logic would dictate that ISK is simply becoming less valuable.
A plex costs roughly the same to purchase IRL (aside from exchange rate fluctuations and the occasional promotion).
So either RL currency is inflating in worth or ISK is deflating.
Seeing as how the almighty crisis has left many a man and woman jobless, wages are cutthroat and employee benefits are non-existent one might speculate RL currency has risen in value. This would make a Plex more valuable.
ISK printing (incursions) would also make a Plex more valuable in terms of ISK worth, obviously. As it becomes more easy for someone to grind/farm ISK it stands to reason the price of a Plex would rise proportionally to compensate for supply/demand.
More people thinking they can sub with plex leads to less supply and obviously the sellers of Plex's want their money's worth too.
For me it's simple, I value time. I value enjoyment. I play EVE for enjoyment. I do not enjoy grinding ISK. I enjoy the social (PVP, corp, alliance, etc) aspect of EVE.
How much time does it cost me to grind for a plex in-game?
How much time does it cost me to work IRL to pay for a plex?
If the second is reasonably lower than the first, to me it makes more sense to just buy plex IRL and convert to ISK to pay for my pvp needs. the second option becomes even more appealing when you realize that your 'grinding'/working time is actually spent contributing to something in RL society, instead of just increasing a fictional wallet in a game.
Luckily though plenty of people rather spend hours and days a month grinding for ISK to sub their account(s) using plex so I get more worth out of my hard-earned euro's. |
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