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New Minmatar EWar system

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OrangeAfroMan Suffoco Noctis Atrocitas	Posted - 2006.07.20 22:52:00 - [31] Originally by: Naughty Boy Edited by: Naughty Boy on 20/07/2006 22:09:10 Originally by: Tranklukator I suggest signature reduction modules for minmatar ecm. their trashcans will last a bit longer ) It could be good, but it has to be carefully balanced with tracking disruptors as you don't want to bring them out of their role with a more versatile and more powerful counter. Still, it doesn't help the gang, as opposed to tracking disruptors so... I kinda like it. NB. Yeah, definately agreed. Though I do also like the OP's ideas, in fact its a tossup between which of these two I'd prefer =p Both add to the Minmatar geurilla tactics etc, perhaps have both, except just the ships in the OP ? Really hope a dev reads this thread :( Gronsak is Tux's angry alt.
Maya Rkell Corsets and Carebears	Posted - 2006.07.20 23:00:00 - [32] Ithildin, I don't think it's a bad idea. But I don't think it's appropriate for a Racial EW. Racial EW should be defensive, imo. Destroyer hull isn't a bad idea either. I'd prefer recon frigs which can lock onto and follow in warp, mind you. (fragile and have 2 highslots with no bonuses) Sig reduction modules, yes...if they're cruiser+ only. You don't want invulraceptors. Really.
Stamm Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.20 23:03:00 - [33] Hmm, here's a simple idea. How about a module that affects the acceleration/deceleration of a ship? Perhaps a 25% nerf at base T1 stats. Rising to 30% for T2/best named stats. A 5% bonus from the appropriate skill, coupled with a 5% bonus from ship bonuses. Would mean that a Minmatar in a Huginn with the skill at level 4 and HAC skill at level 4 using a T2 (hmm, I need a name!) would have urm. 301.21.2=43.2% nerf to acceleration speed of target. With a second module on it'd bring it down to around 20% and a third with stacking penalty would take it to maybe 12-15%. It'd serve two main purposes. It'd stop ships getting into warp for a while - they have to slow down (if they are moving) point towards something and accelerate. And for faster ships where that's not too much of an issue, it'd really nerf their agility hard, they'd struggle to orbit, or change direction etc. This would leave target painters free for all races to use, without ship bonuses.
Traeon SniggWaffe	Posted - 2006.07.20 23:05:00 - [34] I suggested the minmatar EW to be like a tracking disruptor, but only for missiles. A Missile Disruptor
Nyxus GALAXIAN	Posted - 2006.07.20 23:06:00 - [35] At first I read Ithilidin's original post and said "YESSSSSS!!!!!" Then I read Hippo's post and though about POS and said "Ohnoooeeessss!" Then I though about it some more and said "Sometimes....." I don't like this as a Minnie Ewar. Sorry. I do, however, REALLY like this as a high slot utility mod. You activate it on a target and if they warp out you get a "Follow Target to Warp?" confirmation box. I can then decide whether to follow into warp or not (if gang lead I can send my entire group after them). It can follow the target ship in a way similar to fighter drones (err...except without the getting unrecoverably lost part). It provides a decent counter to stabs by allowing them to be followed all about, while being VERY dangerous to the aggressor because unless you were watching closely you won't know where he was going. I like it. A lot. The thought of following those 4 stabby cowards around the system and chewing thier armor a bit at a time while they scream is very very very enticing. Of course....the idea of getting gang warped to a deathstar pos is not. Nyxus Originally by: Tux The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
Maya Rkell Corsets and Carebears	Posted - 2006.07.20 23:09:00 - [36] Originally by: Nyxus Of course....the idea of getting gang warped to a deathstar pos is not. Yea well, if you didn't scout and don't realise in time, you deserve all you get tbh :P
Stamm Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.20 23:11:00 - [37] Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Nyxus Of course....the idea of getting gang warped to a deathstar pos is not. Yea well, if you didn't scout and don't realise in time, you deserve all you get tbh :P Yep, but the problem is you can't scout. You have to follow your target in warp or not, regardless of where he's going. There's no way to tell if he's warping to Planet XVII or Planet XVII Moon 12, or indeed the stargate orbiting that planet.
Nemain Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.20 23:14:00 - [38] Edited by: Nemain on 20/07/2006 23:16:06 Sounds kind of like the warp sensors (or whatever they were) in Elite II - Frontier, where a ship that went to warp left behind it's signature alowing you to follow it (I used to love that in kill missions, if you didn't get to your target on time you had to go on a real hunt). Yes it could be usefull for both sides, one for laying traps, the other for preventing SS'ing. Could be nasty tho, as it would mean noone could escape unless they could warp further than the one following, would also reduce the WCS/scramble usefullness. Maybe some sort of warp shielding or similar skill would be in order as well. I'd love to see it in missions tho, where you have to track someone, or like frontier, you have to get to them in time or else have to chase their warp signature.
Maya Rkell Corsets and Carebears	Posted - 2006.07.20 23:17:00 - [39] Originally by: Stamm Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Nyxus Of course....the idea of getting gang warped to a deathstar pos is not. Yea well, if you didn't scout and don't realise in time, you deserve all you get tbh :P Yep, but the problem is you can't scout. You have to follow your target in warp or not, regardless of where he's going. There's no way to tell if he's warping to Planet XVII or Planet XVII Moon 12, or indeed the stargate orbiting that planet. ...Scouting to see if the enemy have POS in that system.
Stamm Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.20 23:18:00 - [40] Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Stamm Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Nyxus Of course....the idea of getting gang warped to a deathstar pos is not. Yea well, if you didn't scout and don't realise in time, you deserve all you get tbh :P Yep, but the problem is you can't scout. You have to follow your target in warp or not, regardless of where he's going. There's no way to tell if he's warping to Planet XVII or Planet XVII Moon 12, or indeed the stargate orbiting that planet. ...Scouting to see if the enemy have POS in that system. Ah, yeah. That's true. But it's a lot of work to do in order to use your racial EW. I don't have anything against the idea, I just don't think it's good enough to be Minmatars racial EW.
Nyxus GALAXIAN	Posted - 2006.07.20 23:22:00 - [41] Thats why it should be a highslot utility mod. Ganglead> Should we follow them? Tackler 1> HELL YEA! DPSBBOAT> Absolutely Ganglead> Rgr that, initiating warp. May god have mercy on our souls.... I want it. Risky, you have to be smart to employ it, but oh so lovely when you pop back outta warp and call them primary. Nyxus Originally by: Tux The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
Nemain Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.20 23:28:00 - [42] yeah that does sound good, it would be a must have for covert ops ships as well. You could follow unseen, and check before the rest of your ships follow
Maya Rkell Corsets and Carebears	Posted - 2006.07.20 23:34:00 - [43] Originally by: Nyxus Thats why it should be a highslot utility mod. Yep! Sounds useful.
Stamm Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.20 23:37:00 - [44] Yep, sounds good. Also Nyxus, I just realised your character picture looks as if it's trying not to fart.
Nemain Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.20 23:52:00 - [45] Originally by: Stamm Yep, sounds good. Also Nyxus, I just realised your character picture looks as if it's trying not to fart.
Forsch Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.07.21 00:12:00 - [46] Originally by: Traeon I suggested the minmatar EW to be like a tracking disruptor, but only for missiles. A Missile Disruptor Jep. Also in line with the lore (caldari/amarr vs gallente/minmatar). Forsch Defender of the empire More love for side factions!
Cohkka	Posted - 2006.07.21 01:05:00 - [47] Originally by: HippoKing I'd be terrified to use it if I hadn't scanned all the moons and I wasn't flagged in lowsec Imagine a covert ops using that. You'd have to make at least two warps to be sure he doesn't follow you around... and probably busts your fleet regrouping spot. Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5...
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.07.21 01:18:00 - [48] Originally by: Forsch Originally by: Traeon I suggested the minmatar EW to be like a tracking disruptor, but only for missiles. A Missile Disruptor Jep. Also in line with the lore (caldari/amarr vs gallente/minmatar). mah imo it makes more sense for gallentes than matari and also missiles (should) have alredy their counter in defenders. atm they are not really working but there should be a defender revamp in kali
Deros Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.21 01:43:00 - [49] maybe it should come in as a t2 ship as you described, a possibility for minmatar EW could be a module that reduces the number of max targets that a ship can lock. there are already mods (high slot) to increase the number of lockable targets, which atm are hardly used. there are also skills in the game (multi-tasking) that isnt really needed once you have targeting to lvl 4 or 5. maybe a module that reduces the number of active targets that a ship has by 2, this could be doubled on the recon cruisers, and a range bonus, so that they do -4 perhaps. this would give a use for modules that are already in the game, but not used, and skills that have the same problem. i dont really know, its a tricky question, while i like the concept of the original idea, i think it would work as a standalone idea. its not really a race specific module, for any of the races. Deros
Kaylana Syi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.21 01:48:00 - [50] Originally by: Stamm Originally by: Kaylana Syi I'd either like the amarr and minmatar ewars switched or better bonuses on the current minmatar ewar system. Oh I see. You don't like your current EW, so make Amarr have it and take theirs? Look d.bag... I have 2 ammar accounts that are specialized in turret disruption one happens to fly amarr recon ships. The skinny of the situation is simply that ECM and Dampners used against each other in combat because one is gallente and the other is caldari. Their weapon systems also benefit from their ewar. Turret users amarr are pure and simple have an ewar to work against gasp themselves the best. While target painters don't really benefit minmatar in weapon systems in general since their weapon systems NEED tracking computers and enhancers in the first flace. Tracking computers > Target Painters pure and simple on minmatar ships. Lasers on the other hand could use a bonus to hiting since larger guns will have even better ability to hit targets. This way it won't be so overpowered to increase the bonus to say 15% per level. You can't deny that its pretty silly that minmatar don't get a ewar taht is built to fight their racial enemy who are all turrets yet amarr get one to fight themselves. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.07.21 01:53:00 - [51] Originally by: Cohkka Originally by: HippoKing I'd be terrified to use it if I hadn't scanned all the moons and I wasn't flagged in lowsec Imagine a covert ops using that. You'd have to make at least two warps to be sure he doesn't follow you around... and probably busts your fleet regrouping spot. It'd be an active module, so the covops would have to decloak before using it. To the people complaining about POSes and so forth - this obviously a module that you'd primarily be using primarily as a defending alliance member - you'd have problems if the opponent has a friendly (to them) POS in system... --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Meridius Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.21 02:03:00 - [52] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Stamm Originally by: Kaylana Syi I'd either like the amarr and minmatar ewars switched or better bonuses on the current minmatar ewar system. Oh I see. You don't like your current EW, so make Amarr have it and take theirs? Look d.bag... I have 2 ammar accounts that are specialized in turret disruption one happens to fly amarr recon ships. The skinny of the situation is simply that ECM and Dampners used against each other in combat because one is gallente and the other is caldari. Their weapon systems also benefit from their ewar. Turret users amarr are pure and simple have an ewar to work against gasp themselves the best. While target painters don't really benefit minmatar in weapon systems in general since their weapon systems NEED tracking computers and enhancers in the first flace. Tracking computers > Target Painters pure and simple on minmatar ships. Lasers on the other hand could use a bonus to hiting since larger guns will have even better ability to hit targets. This way it won't be so overpowered to increase the bonus to say 15% per level. You can't deny that its pretty silly that minmatar don't get a ewar taht is built to fight their racial enemy who are all turrets yet amarr get one to fight themselves. It's still too huge a nerf even tho it might make sense. Too drastic a change... Also, T2 Minmatar with a tracking disruptor bonus would completely ***the ** out of anything Amarr. If somehow minnies were to get the TD bonus, i would suggest the Amarr get a bonus to webber range (to counter those fast minnies) or a multi-weapon disruption system that affects both turrets and missiles as that makes RP sense as well. Of course, the % penalty it would give would be much less then a TD since it works for 2 systems instead of 1. - _____
Stamm Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.21 02:36:00 - [53] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Stamm Originally by: Kaylana Syi I'd either like the amarr and minmatar ewars switched or better bonuses on the current minmatar ewar system. Oh I see. You don't like your current EW, so make Amarr have it and take theirs? Look d.bag... I have 2 ammar accounts that are specialized in turret disruption one happens to fly amarr recon ships. The skinny of the situation is simply that ECM and Dampners used against each other in combat because one is gallente and the other is caldari. Their weapon systems also benefit from their ewar. Turret users amarr are pure and simple have an ewar to work against gasp themselves the best. While target painters don't really benefit minmatar in weapon systems in general since their weapon systems NEED tracking computers and enhancers in the first flace. Tracking computers > Target Painters pure and simple on minmatar ships. Lasers on the other hand could use a bonus to hiting since larger guns will have even better ability to hit targets. This way it won't be so overpowered to increase the bonus to say 15% per level. You can't deny that its pretty silly that minmatar don't get a ewar taht is built to fight their racial enemy who are all turrets yet amarr get one to fight themselves. Just going to point out the flaws in what you've said and ignore the insults. Minmatar are mixed weapon users, they have drones, missiles and turrets, they're more mixed than any other race. Target painters help drones a bit, help missiles a lot and help turrets a touch. The Amarr ships that use tracking disruptors are the drone ships - apart from the crucifier which almost nobody uses, and the anathema, and it's not used for combat. It's not going to help their lasers, and realistically anybody flying those ships with lasers is using small ones on a medium ship and has no issues with sig radius. Now you're posting in a Minmatar EW thread, as a Minmatar and your suggestion is to swap your EW with Amarrs or give it a boost. Excuse me if I see that for what it looks like. As for the racial EW itself? It's not designed to be against anybody in particular. Caldari - they're sensor specialists (look at the sensor values on their ships), it makes sense that they get something to affect that. Amarr - Turret specialists, makes sense that their EW is turret based. Minmatar - All gank and no tank, makes sense that their EW is designed to help inflict more damage. As far as tracking enhancers being better than target painters? Don't try to sell that... Perhaps tracking computers are better than painters, it does depend on what you are firing at. But as far as I'm concerned in theory target painters are suited to Minmatar style, if they aren't as effective as they should be, then look at removing the stacking penalty they get, or look at giving them a slight nudge.
Benglada Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.07.21 04:02:00 - [54] Originally by: Tachy Usability in PvE = 0 Oh wow, you mean like sensor dampening ecm and and turret disruption?.. --------------------------- Originally by: Wrangler Unfrtinately you dnot get to vote..
Hugh Ruka Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.21 05:38:00 - [55] I actualy like the idea. The ship using the analyser should get a beacon in overview from it for a short duration, so it can initiate a gang warp. Will be very handy for frig/inty squads that warp faster so they actualy arrive before the target. But it makes safespots pointless. ------------------------------ if you want peace, prepare for war ... ------------------------------ Removed due to offensive content - Laqum I realy liked my signature. Oh well
Knoppaz Union of Corvus Corax	Posted - 2006.07.21 07:06:00 - [56] Tbh, since Minmatar are speedfreaks it should be something speed related. That means either a) a webber-booster in some way to slow down things more and/or at greater range or b) something that helps them maintaining their speed advantage through either a web-counter (e.g. bringing opponents web efficiency down by 50%).. or ..something that helps them with their own speed boosting, e.g. an AB that reaches great speed and stacks with current AB/MWD, but only runs 10 seconds and then shuts off for a minute or so (as web-defense).
Nafri Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.21 07:48:00 - [57] Originally by: Knoppaz Originally by: Nafri I would prefer to have a module increasing the sig resolution of the targetted enemy ship. Minmatar ships are fast, increased sig resolution would be pretty handy for them But I fear its too similar with the Tracking Disruptor. ... Sounds interesting, but might be too similar with the target painters Sig resolution =! sig size sig size is as you probably know the size of the enemy ship. The sig resolution is a stat on guns, like 400m for a large waeapon. When you increase your sig resolution enemy ships will have bigger problems to hurt you. From Dusk till Dawn Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected])
Nafri Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.21 07:49:00 - [58] Another idea. Since lots of minmatar ships have useless launchers points, why dont give them boni to defenders when they are fixed of course? From Dusk till Dawn Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected])
Hugh Ruka Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.21 08:01:00 - [59] Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Knoppaz Originally by: Nafri I would prefer to have a module increasing the sig resolution of the targetted enemy ship. Minmatar ships are fast, increased sig resolution would be pretty handy for them But I fear its too similar with the Tracking Disruptor. ... Sounds interesting, but might be too similar with the target painters Sig resolution =! sig size sig size is as you probably know the size of the enemy ship. The sig resolution is a stat on guns, like 400m for a large waeapon. When you increase your sig resolution enemy ships will have bigger problems to hurt you. I'd say a TAG painter. Like you want to aid a bs sniper, you equip a tag painter that creates a TAG for the 400m gun. This will make the gun hit much better. However it will screw over small ships running into such a sniper :-) Maybe it is just my crazy idea that a target painter should assist long range guns in a way like " I point my painter on you and you are dead because the big guns behind me will see you and waste you". ------------------------------ if you want peace, prepare for war ... ------------------------------ Removed due to offensive content - Laqum I realy liked my signature. Oh well
Juan Andalusian TAOSP	Posted - 2006.07.21 08:15:00 - [60] Yeah and why don't we get a module that senses the targets lowest resist and loads the proper damage type ammo for us and fires all the weapons while at the same time orbiting at optimal. Riiight, any thing that makes pvp less dependant on player skill and more of an automatic procedure is a horrible idea. Pain is meant to be felt

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