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Ithildin Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.20 16:27:00 - [1] Well, who likes Target Painters anyway? They're useful, but really? I'm sure a lot of people would agree with me that it's wasted module for bonuses. Although the topic said "New Minmatar EWar system", it's not actually something I'm suggesting as Minmatar specialist thing only. It might also work as a beautiful new T2 ship concept, which I will touch on as well. But first, the module. Warp Analysis Arithmetics - (base skill) 5% bonus to Warp Analysis accuracy per level Warp Analysis Modulation - -10% bonus to Warp Analysis fluctuation per level Warp Analyser I. High slot. 1 powergrid 50 cpu Activation time: 20s Activation cost: 40 units Accuracy: 50km Fluctuation: 10km Optimal range / Fall off: 20km / 20km (subject to standard EWar range skills) Concept: When the targeted enemy warps, the ship using a Warp Analyser will initiate a standard warp after this ship. The accuracy will state at what distance from the targeted ship you will land. Fluctuation is a random factor which acts as a sort of accuracy fall off. Example: Vigil (max skills) is using a Warp Analyser I module by targeting a Typhoon with loads of stabs. The Typhoon warps off, and the Vigil initiates a warp to the same destination as the Typhoon. The Vigil will land 28km from the Typhoon and "scatter" 5km in a random direction (i.e. he'll come out of warp between 33km and 23km from the Typhoon). The Typhoon warped to a gate, so the chase is on. Megathron (lvl 5 arithmetics, lvl 0 modulation) uses the same on a fleing Raven. The Megathron will land 38km from the Raven with a scatter of 10km! Not a very good range for a Blasterthron. The Raven warped to a POS, so it really didn't matter... Implementation as a T2 ship category. Hull size: Frigate or Destroyer (Note that with this implementation, only this class would be able to fit Warp Analysers) Standard class skill bonus: Warp Analyser accuracy Typical racial class skill bonuses: (just a suggestion) Warp jammer range (Amarr?, Caldari) magnitude of max x3-x4 Warp jammer strength (Gallente) magnitude of max x2 Webbifier range (Minmatar) magnitude of max x4 Concept: A class of fast, agile, and sturdy tackler ships with low amounts of hard points and few, if any, bonuses specifically for damage dealing. Examples, destroyer hulls: Keres (Gallente, Catalyst hull, Duvolle Laboratories design - Black and grey) 5 High (4 turrets), 3 mid, 4 low Speed: 350 m/s Class: +50% Thermal resistance, +75% Kinetic resistance, -99% Warp Analyser CPU requirement Ship: +7.5% armour repairer amount, +10% Small hybrid turret tracking Advanced: +5% Warp Analyser accuracy, +20% warp jammer strength Sphinx (Caldari, Cormorant hull, Ishukone design - Pale Green and silver) 5 High (4 launchers), 3 mid, 4 low Speed: 350 m/s Class: +50% Kinetic resistance, +75% Thermal resistance, -99% Warp Analyser CPU requirement Ship: +5% shield resistance, +10% Light missile and rocket velocity Advanced: +5% Warp Analyser accuracy, +20% warp jammer range Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death
Ithildin Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.20 16:27:00 - [2] Well, who likes Target Painters anyway? They're useful, but really? I'm sure a lot of people would agree with me that it's wasted module for bonuses. Although the topic said "New Minmatar EWar system", it's not actually something I'm suggesting as Minmatar specialist thing only. It might also work as a beautiful new T2 ship concept, which I will touch on as well. But first, the module. Warp Analysis Arithmetics - (base skill) 5% bonus to Warp Analysis accuracy per level Warp Analysis Modulation - -10% bonus to Warp Analysis fluctuation per level Warp Analyser I. High slot. 1 powergrid 50 cpu Activation time: 20s Activation cost: 40 units Accuracy: 50km Fluctuation: 10km Optimal range / Fall off: 20km / 20km (subject to standard EWar range skills) Concept: When the targeted enemy warps, the ship using a Warp Analyser will initiate a standard warp after this ship. The accuracy will state at what distance from the targeted ship you will land. Fluctuation is a random factor which acts as a sort of accuracy fall off. Example: Vigil (max skills) is using a Warp Analyser I module by targeting a Typhoon with loads of stabs. The Typhoon warps off, and the Vigil initiates a warp to the same destination as the Typhoon. The Vigil will land 28km from the Typhoon and "scatter" 5km in a random direction (i.e. he'll come out of warp between 33km and 23km from the Typhoon). The Typhoon warped to a gate, so the chase is on. Megathron (lvl 5 arithmetics, lvl 0 modulation) uses the same on a fleing Raven. The Megathron will land 38km from the Raven with a scatter of 10km! Not a very good range for a Blasterthron. The Raven warped to a POS, so it really didn't matter... Implementation as a T2 ship category. Hull size: Frigate or Destroyer (Note that with this implementation, only this class would be able to fit Warp Analysers) Standard class skill bonus: Warp Analyser accuracy Typical racial class skill bonuses: (just a suggestion) Warp jammer range (Amarr?, Caldari) magnitude of max x3-x4 Warp jammer strength (Gallente) magnitude of max x2 Webbifier range (Minmatar) magnitude of max x4 Concept: A class of fast, agile, and sturdy tackler ships with low amounts of hard points and few, if any, bonuses specifically for damage dealing. Examples, destroyer hulls: Keres (Gallente, Catalyst hull, Duvolle Laboratories design - Black and grey) 5 High (4 turrets), 3 mid, 4 low Speed: 350 m/s Class: +50% Thermal resistance, +75% Kinetic resistance, -99% Warp Analyser CPU requirement Ship: +7.5% armour repairer amount, +10% Small hybrid turret tracking Advanced: +5% Warp Analyser accuracy, +20% warp jammer strength Sphinx (Caldari, Cormorant hull, Ishukone design - Pale Green and silver) 5 High (4 launchers), 3 mid, 4 low Speed: 350 m/s Class: +50% Kinetic resistance, +75% Thermal resistance, -99% Warp Analyser CPU requirement Ship: +5% shield resistance, +10% Light missile and rocket velocity Advanced: +5% Warp Analyser accuracy, +20% warp jammer range Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death
HippoKing Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.20 16:32:00 - [3] I'd be terrified to use it if I hadn't scanned all the moons and I wasn't flagged in lowsec
HippoKing Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.20 16:32:00 - [4] I'd be terrified to use it if I hadn't scanned all the moons and I wasn't flagged in lowsec
Jennie Marlboro Blood Moon Horde HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2006.07.20 16:34:00 - [5] /signed Where do I get one?
Jennie Marlboro Blood Moon Horde HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2006.07.20 16:34:00 - [6] /signed Where do I get one?
Rob Boberton XenoTech The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2006.07.20 16:43:00 - [7] I've thought for a while that minmatar should get an ewar type that jams repping, or perhaps reduces it by a noticeable percent. That'd be in line with the minmatar damage=good philosophy.
Rob Boberton XenoTech The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2006.07.20 16:43:00 - [8] I've thought for a while that minmatar should get an ewar type that jams repping, or perhaps reduces it by a noticeable percent. That'd be in line with the minmatar damage=good philosophy.
Bean Doodle Wasteland Industries Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.07.20 16:46:00 - [9] Edited by: Bean Doodle on 20/07/2006 17:02:50 Edited by: Bean Doodle on 20/07/2006 16:54:32 /me flaps arms and runs around in circles!!! ...??? umm... oh yeah, your idea, i likes it edit: but making you automatically warp after the dude is baed. give the player using the module a thing on the overview like cyno fields that he/she can warp too. mebbe make it dissapear after 30sec so ppl wont be all like "pmfg permamessed up ss logon traps leik not rotfllolmao mayocheese!!11!!!" Woohootles
Bean Doodle Wasteland Industries Chimaera Pact	Posted - 2006.07.20 16:46:00 - [10] Edited by: Bean Doodle on 20/07/2006 17:02:50 Edited by: Bean Doodle on 20/07/2006 16:54:32 /me flaps arms and runs around in circles!!! ...??? umm... oh yeah, your idea, i likes it edit: but making you automatically warp after the dude is baed. give the player using the module a thing on the overview like cyno fields that he/she can warp too. mebbe make it dissapear after 30sec so ppl wont be all like "pmfg permamessed up ss logon traps leik not rotfllolmao mayocheese!!11!!!" Woohootles
Matsuo Masato Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.20 17:04:00 - [11] uhmm.. no minmatar need a defensive Ewar just like the other races so my vote is on a sig reducing module
Matsuo Masato Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.20 17:04:00 - [12] uhmm.. no minmatar need a defensive Ewar just like the other races so my vote is on a sig reducing module
Casyus Quinn Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.20 17:11:00 - [13] i like the idea, it creates a nice balance between those who fit warp disruptors and those who fit stabalizers, plus if someone fitted all three they'd most likely have complete control over just about any engagement unless they ran into someone with a similar fitting set up which seems intersting all by itself a sig reducing module would be nice to
Ithildin Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.20 17:11:00 - [14] Originally by: Matsuo Masato uhmm.. no minmatar need a defensive Ewar just like the other races so my vote is on a sig reducing module So, do you like my alternate idea, the T2 ships idea? Oh, and I do dig the signature reducing module, although it's not an EWar system, it's a defensive, localized, system. There's 6 categories of non-damaging modules (the way I see it): Targeted defensive (remote boosters and repairers) Targeted denying (common EWar) Targeted offensive (target painters, warp analyser) Local defensive (repairers) Local denying (sig radius decreasers, wcs, and cloaks) Local offensive (Self-destruct button?) Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death
Casyus Quinn Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.20 17:11:00 - [15] i like the idea, it creates a nice balance between those who fit warp disruptors and those who fit stabalizers, plus if someone fitted all three they'd most likely have complete control over just about any engagement unless they ran into someone with a similar fitting set up which seems intersting all by itself a sig reducing module would be nice to
Ithildin Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.20 17:11:00 - [16] Originally by: Matsuo Masato uhmm.. no minmatar need a defensive Ewar just like the other races so my vote is on a sig reducing module So, do you like my alternate idea, the T2 ships idea? Oh, and I do dig the signature reducing module, although it's not an EWar system, it's a defensive, localized, system. There's 6 categories of non-damaging modules (the way I see it): Targeted defensive (remote boosters and repairers) Targeted denying (common EWar) Targeted offensive (target painters, warp analyser) Local defensive (repairers) Local denying (sig radius decreasers, wcs, and cloaks) Local offensive (Self-destruct button?) Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death
Tachy	Posted - 2006.07.20 17:25:00 - [17] Usability in PvE = 0 --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.07.20 17:25:00 - [18] Usability in PvE = 0 --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
Nafri Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.20 17:30:00 - [19] I would prefer to have a module increasing the sig resolution of the targetted enemy ship. Minmatar ships are fast, increased sig resolution would be pretty handy for them But I fear its too similar with the Tracking Disruptor. Another one would be a capdampener, who reduces the enemy cap recharge time, but again, similar to the nosferatu. From Dusk till Dawn Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected])
Nafri Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.20 17:30:00 - [20] I would prefer to have a module increasing the sig resolution of the targetted enemy ship. Minmatar ships are fast, increased sig resolution would be pretty handy for them But I fear its too similar with the Tracking Disruptor. Another one would be a capdampener, who reduces the enemy cap recharge time, but again, similar to the nosferatu. From Dusk till Dawn Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected])
Kaylana Syi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.20 17:38:00 - [21] I'd either like the amarr and minmatar ewars switched or better bonuses on the current minmatar ewar system. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.07.20 17:50:00 - [22] mmmm honestly doesn't like too much the idea, it is screaming for traps the luring ship can fight a bit and then warp to a pos or a group of friends making it a very dangerous "EW module" and also it will not prevent a fast ship from fleeing it will have just to warp to a gate and by the time you will be in webber range it will jump away. i don't like TP too but i also think with better bonuses they can become way more usefull... something like 20+% effectiveness and +10% range/level. also it will be nice to have this kind of bonuses on a bit more dedicated missile boats than the usual 50/50 (crappy :P) split. the sign reduction module sound nice too, but sadly will not be a really EW mod, also i fear it could be a bit umbalancing as it will affect missile dmg, turrets "to hit", target speed and eventually noses (after nerf)
Tranklukator	Posted - 2006.07.20 22:03:00 - [23] I suggest signature reduction modules for minmatar ecm. their trashcans will last a bit longer )
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2006.07.20 22:08:00 - [24] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 20/07/2006 22:09:10 Originally by: Tranklukator I suggest signature reduction modules for minmatar ecm. their trashcans will last a bit longer ) It could be good, but it has to be carefully balanced with tracking disruptors as you don't want to bring them out of their role with a more versatile and more powerful counter. Still, it doesn't help the gang, as opposed to tracking disruptors so... I kinda like it. NB.
Prestis	Posted - 2006.07.20 22:17:00 - [25] Defensive or offensive, any change to Minmatar EW would be good. Target painters really do close to nothing for turrets in most situations. Even for missiles they're like +10% damage vs smaller ships only. Not sure how that compaires with certain other forms of EW that shutdown other ships completely for 30 seconds..
Stamm Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.20 22:22:00 - [26] Originally by: Kaylana Syi I'd either like the amarr and minmatar ewars switched or better bonuses on the current minmatar ewar system. Oh I see. You don't like your current EW, so make Amarr have it and take theirs?
Testicular Testes	Posted - 2006.07.20 22:23:00 - [27] Warpchasing is something that absolutely needs to happen anyway, whether via a module and skills or as a basic function.
Matsuo Masato Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.20 22:24:00 - [28] yeah some form of "Targeted denying" EW would be good to
Knoppaz Union of Corvus Corax	Posted - 2006.07.20 22:32:00 - [29] Originally by: Nafri I would prefer to have a module increasing the sig resolution of the targetted enemy ship. Minmatar ships are fast, increased sig resolution would be pretty handy for them But I fear its too similar with the Tracking Disruptor. ... Sounds interesting, but might be too similar with the target painters
Stamm Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.20 22:45:00 - [30] Originally by: HippoKing I'd be terrified to use it if I hadn't scanned all the moons and I wasn't flagged in lowsec This is a good idea, so I thought, until I read what Hippoking said. Let's pretend I'm Matari. I'm in my Vagabond, and instead of me fitting warp disruptors or scramblers, I fit one of them modules you suggested. I head off down to the Shire to gank some Hobbits. After I check a few systems I find a nice little juicy Hobbit fighting Angels (or maybe these Angles I keep hearing about) and I launch my attack! I switch my ammo over for something he's not tanked against, and open fire. He panics, and now we come to the interesting bit. He can warp one of 3 places. 1) Another celestial object, at 15 or 100, or a safespot, or a stargate not on an insta. 2) A POS on a moon. 3) A stargate on an insta. If it's 1 you have to lock him down again and activate the module. If it's 2 you're dead. If it's 3 then he's going to jump through and you have to catch up from 20KM away and jump after him. You won't catch him most likely. You have no way of telling which of the three it is. I know I'm not going to activate the module. So let's instead pretend for some reason it's only ever going to be outcome 1. You activate the module and your ship initiates a warp after this guy. You catch up and lock him and start shooting again - but you've no way to prevent him warping, so he warps off again and while he's in warp his armour or shield is repping/boosting. Ships don't run out of cap by just warping around, generally speaking. So I'm afraid for now, unless I'm missing some things, I can't really see a use for this module.
OrangeAfroMan Suffoco Noctis Atrocitas	Posted - 2006.07.20 22:52:00 - [31] Originally by: Naughty Boy Edited by: Naughty Boy on 20/07/2006 22:09:10 Originally by: Tranklukator I suggest signature reduction modules for minmatar ecm. their trashcans will last a bit longer ) It could be good, but it has to be carefully balanced with tracking disruptors as you don't want to bring them out of their role with a more versatile and more powerful counter. Still, it doesn't help the gang, as opposed to tracking disruptors so... I kinda like it. NB. Yeah, definately agreed. Though I do also like the OP's ideas, in fact its a tossup between which of these two I'd prefer =p Both add to the Minmatar geurilla tactics etc, perhaps have both, except just the ships in the OP ? Really hope a dev reads this thread :( Gronsak is Tux's angry alt.
Maya Rkell Corsets and Carebears	Posted - 2006.07.20 23:00:00 - [32] Ithildin, I don't think it's a bad idea. But I don't think it's appropriate for a Racial EW. Racial EW should be defensive, imo. Destroyer hull isn't a bad idea either. I'd prefer recon frigs which can lock onto and follow in warp, mind you. (fragile and have 2 highslots with no bonuses) Sig reduction modules, yes...if they're cruiser+ only. You don't want invulraceptors. Really.
Stamm Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.20 23:03:00 - [33] Hmm, here's a simple idea. How about a module that affects the acceleration/deceleration of a ship? Perhaps a 25% nerf at base T1 stats. Rising to 30% for T2/best named stats. A 5% bonus from the appropriate skill, coupled with a 5% bonus from ship bonuses. Would mean that a Minmatar in a Huginn with the skill at level 4 and HAC skill at level 4 using a T2 (hmm, I need a name!) would have urm. 301.21.2=43.2% nerf to acceleration speed of target. With a second module on it'd bring it down to around 20% and a third with stacking penalty would take it to maybe 12-15%. It'd serve two main purposes. It'd stop ships getting into warp for a while - they have to slow down (if they are moving) point towards something and accelerate. And for faster ships where that's not too much of an issue, it'd really nerf their agility hard, they'd struggle to orbit, or change direction etc. This would leave target painters free for all races to use, without ship bonuses.
Traeon SniggWaffe	Posted - 2006.07.20 23:05:00 - [34] I suggested the minmatar EW to be like a tracking disruptor, but only for missiles. A Missile Disruptor
Nyxus GALAXIAN	Posted - 2006.07.20 23:06:00 - [35] At first I read Ithilidin's original post and said "YESSSSSS!!!!!" Then I read Hippo's post and though about POS and said "Ohnoooeeessss!" Then I though about it some more and said "Sometimes....." I don't like this as a Minnie Ewar. Sorry. I do, however, REALLY like this as a high slot utility mod. You activate it on a target and if they warp out you get a "Follow Target to Warp?" confirmation box. I can then decide whether to follow into warp or not (if gang lead I can send my entire group after them). It can follow the target ship in a way similar to fighter drones (err...except without the getting unrecoverably lost part). It provides a decent counter to stabs by allowing them to be followed all about, while being VERY dangerous to the aggressor because unless you were watching closely you won't know where he was going. I like it. A lot. The thought of following those 4 stabby cowards around the system and chewing thier armor a bit at a time while they scream is very very very enticing. Of course....the idea of getting gang warped to a deathstar pos is not. Nyxus Originally by: Tux The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
Maya Rkell Corsets and Carebears	Posted - 2006.07.20 23:09:00 - [36] Originally by: Nyxus Of course....the idea of getting gang warped to a deathstar pos is not. Yea well, if you didn't scout and don't realise in time, you deserve all you get tbh :P
Stamm Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.20 23:11:00 - [37] Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Nyxus Of course....the idea of getting gang warped to a deathstar pos is not. Yea well, if you didn't scout and don't realise in time, you deserve all you get tbh :P Yep, but the problem is you can't scout. You have to follow your target in warp or not, regardless of where he's going. There's no way to tell if he's warping to Planet XVII or Planet XVII Moon 12, or indeed the stargate orbiting that planet.
Nemain Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.20 23:14:00 - [38] Edited by: Nemain on 20/07/2006 23:16:06 Sounds kind of like the warp sensors (or whatever they were) in Elite II - Frontier, where a ship that went to warp left behind it's signature alowing you to follow it (I used to love that in kill missions, if you didn't get to your target on time you had to go on a real hunt). Yes it could be usefull for both sides, one for laying traps, the other for preventing SS'ing. Could be nasty tho, as it would mean noone could escape unless they could warp further than the one following, would also reduce the WCS/scramble usefullness. Maybe some sort of warp shielding or similar skill would be in order as well. I'd love to see it in missions tho, where you have to track someone, or like frontier, you have to get to them in time or else have to chase their warp signature.
Maya Rkell Corsets and Carebears	Posted - 2006.07.20 23:17:00 - [39] Originally by: Stamm Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Nyxus Of course....the idea of getting gang warped to a deathstar pos is not. Yea well, if you didn't scout and don't realise in time, you deserve all you get tbh :P Yep, but the problem is you can't scout. You have to follow your target in warp or not, regardless of where he's going. There's no way to tell if he's warping to Planet XVII or Planet XVII Moon 12, or indeed the stargate orbiting that planet. ...Scouting to see if the enemy have POS in that system.
Stamm Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.20 23:18:00 - [40] Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Stamm Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Nyxus Of course....the idea of getting gang warped to a deathstar pos is not. Yea well, if you didn't scout and don't realise in time, you deserve all you get tbh :P Yep, but the problem is you can't scout. You have to follow your target in warp or not, regardless of where he's going. There's no way to tell if he's warping to Planet XVII or Planet XVII Moon 12, or indeed the stargate orbiting that planet. ...Scouting to see if the enemy have POS in that system. Ah, yeah. That's true. But it's a lot of work to do in order to use your racial EW. I don't have anything against the idea, I just don't think it's good enough to be Minmatars racial EW.
Nyxus GALAXIAN	Posted - 2006.07.20 23:22:00 - [41] Thats why it should be a highslot utility mod. Ganglead> Should we follow them? Tackler 1> HELL YEA! DPSBBOAT> Absolutely Ganglead> Rgr that, initiating warp. May god have mercy on our souls.... I want it. Risky, you have to be smart to employ it, but oh so lovely when you pop back outta warp and call them primary. Nyxus Originally by: Tux The thought of a missile spewing armor tanking cool black looking ship makes me happy in the pants
Nemain Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.20 23:28:00 - [42] yeah that does sound good, it would be a must have for covert ops ships as well. You could follow unseen, and check before the rest of your ships follow
Maya Rkell Corsets and Carebears	Posted - 2006.07.20 23:34:00 - [43] Originally by: Nyxus Thats why it should be a highslot utility mod. Yep! Sounds useful.
Stamm Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.20 23:37:00 - [44] Yep, sounds good. Also Nyxus, I just realised your character picture looks as if it's trying not to fart.
Nemain Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.20 23:52:00 - [45] Originally by: Stamm Yep, sounds good. Also Nyxus, I just realised your character picture looks as if it's trying not to fart.
Forsch Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2006.07.21 00:12:00 - [46] Originally by: Traeon I suggested the minmatar EW to be like a tracking disruptor, but only for missiles. A Missile Disruptor Jep. Also in line with the lore (caldari/amarr vs gallente/minmatar). Forsch Defender of the empire More love for side factions!
Cohkka	Posted - 2006.07.21 01:05:00 - [47] Originally by: HippoKing I'd be terrified to use it if I hadn't scanned all the moons and I wasn't flagged in lowsec Imagine a covert ops using that. You'd have to make at least two warps to be sure he doesn't follow you around... and probably busts your fleet regrouping spot. Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5...
Ath Amon	Posted - 2006.07.21 01:18:00 - [48] Originally by: Forsch Originally by: Traeon I suggested the minmatar EW to be like a tracking disruptor, but only for missiles. A Missile Disruptor Jep. Also in line with the lore (caldari/amarr vs gallente/minmatar). mah imo it makes more sense for gallentes than matari and also missiles (should) have alredy their counter in defenders. atm they are not really working but there should be a defender revamp in kali
Deros Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.21 01:43:00 - [49] maybe it should come in as a t2 ship as you described, a possibility for minmatar EW could be a module that reduces the number of max targets that a ship can lock. there are already mods (high slot) to increase the number of lockable targets, which atm are hardly used. there are also skills in the game (multi-tasking) that isnt really needed once you have targeting to lvl 4 or 5. maybe a module that reduces the number of active targets that a ship has by 2, this could be doubled on the recon cruisers, and a range bonus, so that they do -4 perhaps. this would give a use for modules that are already in the game, but not used, and skills that have the same problem. i dont really know, its a tricky question, while i like the concept of the original idea, i think it would work as a standalone idea. its not really a race specific module, for any of the races. Deros
Kaylana Syi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.21 01:48:00 - [50] Originally by: Stamm Originally by: Kaylana Syi I'd either like the amarr and minmatar ewars switched or better bonuses on the current minmatar ewar system. Oh I see. You don't like your current EW, so make Amarr have it and take theirs? Look d.bag... I have 2 ammar accounts that are specialized in turret disruption one happens to fly amarr recon ships. The skinny of the situation is simply that ECM and Dampners used against each other in combat because one is gallente and the other is caldari. Their weapon systems also benefit from their ewar. Turret users amarr are pure and simple have an ewar to work against gasp themselves the best. While target painters don't really benefit minmatar in weapon systems in general since their weapon systems NEED tracking computers and enhancers in the first flace. Tracking computers > Target Painters pure and simple on minmatar ships. Lasers on the other hand could use a bonus to hiting since larger guns will have even better ability to hit targets. This way it won't be so overpowered to increase the bonus to say 15% per level. You can't deny that its pretty silly that minmatar don't get a ewar taht is built to fight their racial enemy who are all turrets yet amarr get one to fight themselves. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.07.21 01:53:00 - [51] Originally by: Cohkka Originally by: HippoKing I'd be terrified to use it if I hadn't scanned all the moons and I wasn't flagged in lowsec Imagine a covert ops using that. You'd have to make at least two warps to be sure he doesn't follow you around... and probably busts your fleet regrouping spot. It'd be an active module, so the covops would have to decloak before using it. To the people complaining about POSes and so forth - this obviously a module that you'd primarily be using primarily as a defending alliance member - you'd have problems if the opponent has a friendly (to them) POS in system... --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Meridius Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.21 02:03:00 - [52] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Stamm Originally by: Kaylana Syi I'd either like the amarr and minmatar ewars switched or better bonuses on the current minmatar ewar system. Oh I see. You don't like your current EW, so make Amarr have it and take theirs? Look d.bag... I have 2 ammar accounts that are specialized in turret disruption one happens to fly amarr recon ships. The skinny of the situation is simply that ECM and Dampners used against each other in combat because one is gallente and the other is caldari. Their weapon systems also benefit from their ewar. Turret users amarr are pure and simple have an ewar to work against gasp themselves the best. While target painters don't really benefit minmatar in weapon systems in general since their weapon systems NEED tracking computers and enhancers in the first flace. Tracking computers > Target Painters pure and simple on minmatar ships. Lasers on the other hand could use a bonus to hiting since larger guns will have even better ability to hit targets. This way it won't be so overpowered to increase the bonus to say 15% per level. You can't deny that its pretty silly that minmatar don't get a ewar taht is built to fight their racial enemy who are all turrets yet amarr get one to fight themselves. It's still too huge a nerf even tho it might make sense. Too drastic a change... Also, T2 Minmatar with a tracking disruptor bonus would completely ***the ** out of anything Amarr. If somehow minnies were to get the TD bonus, i would suggest the Amarr get a bonus to webber range (to counter those fast minnies) or a multi-weapon disruption system that affects both turrets and missiles as that makes RP sense as well. Of course, the % penalty it would give would be much less then a TD since it works for 2 systems instead of 1. - _____
Stamm Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.21 02:36:00 - [53] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Stamm Originally by: Kaylana Syi I'd either like the amarr and minmatar ewars switched or better bonuses on the current minmatar ewar system. Oh I see. You don't like your current EW, so make Amarr have it and take theirs? Look d.bag... I have 2 ammar accounts that are specialized in turret disruption one happens to fly amarr recon ships. The skinny of the situation is simply that ECM and Dampners used against each other in combat because one is gallente and the other is caldari. Their weapon systems also benefit from their ewar. Turret users amarr are pure and simple have an ewar to work against gasp themselves the best. While target painters don't really benefit minmatar in weapon systems in general since their weapon systems NEED tracking computers and enhancers in the first flace. Tracking computers > Target Painters pure and simple on minmatar ships. Lasers on the other hand could use a bonus to hiting since larger guns will have even better ability to hit targets. This way it won't be so overpowered to increase the bonus to say 15% per level. You can't deny that its pretty silly that minmatar don't get a ewar taht is built to fight their racial enemy who are all turrets yet amarr get one to fight themselves. Just going to point out the flaws in what you've said and ignore the insults. Minmatar are mixed weapon users, they have drones, missiles and turrets, they're more mixed than any other race. Target painters help drones a bit, help missiles a lot and help turrets a touch. The Amarr ships that use tracking disruptors are the drone ships - apart from the crucifier which almost nobody uses, and the anathema, and it's not used for combat. It's not going to help their lasers, and realistically anybody flying those ships with lasers is using small ones on a medium ship and has no issues with sig radius. Now you're posting in a Minmatar EW thread, as a Minmatar and your suggestion is to swap your EW with Amarrs or give it a boost. Excuse me if I see that for what it looks like. As for the racial EW itself? It's not designed to be against anybody in particular. Caldari - they're sensor specialists (look at the sensor values on their ships), it makes sense that they get something to affect that. Amarr - Turret specialists, makes sense that their EW is turret based. Minmatar - All gank and no tank, makes sense that their EW is designed to help inflict more damage. As far as tracking enhancers being better than target painters? Don't try to sell that... Perhaps tracking computers are better than painters, it does depend on what you are firing at. But as far as I'm concerned in theory target painters are suited to Minmatar style, if they aren't as effective as they should be, then look at removing the stacking penalty they get, or look at giving them a slight nudge.
Benglada Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.07.21 04:02:00 - [54] Originally by: Tachy Usability in PvE = 0 Oh wow, you mean like sensor dampening ecm and and turret disruption?.. --------------------------- Originally by: Wrangler Unfrtinately you dnot get to vote..
Hugh Ruka Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.21 05:38:00 - [55] I actualy like the idea. The ship using the analyser should get a beacon in overview from it for a short duration, so it can initiate a gang warp. Will be very handy for frig/inty squads that warp faster so they actualy arrive before the target. But it makes safespots pointless. ------------------------------ if you want peace, prepare for war ... ------------------------------ Removed due to offensive content - Laqum I realy liked my signature. Oh well
Knoppaz Union of Corvus Corax	Posted - 2006.07.21 07:06:00 - [56] Tbh, since Minmatar are speedfreaks it should be something speed related. That means either a) a webber-booster in some way to slow down things more and/or at greater range or b) something that helps them maintaining their speed advantage through either a web-counter (e.g. bringing opponents web efficiency down by 50%).. or ..something that helps them with their own speed boosting, e.g. an AB that reaches great speed and stacks with current AB/MWD, but only runs 10 seconds and then shuts off for a minute or so (as web-defense).
Nafri Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.21 07:48:00 - [57] Originally by: Knoppaz Originally by: Nafri I would prefer to have a module increasing the sig resolution of the targetted enemy ship. Minmatar ships are fast, increased sig resolution would be pretty handy for them But I fear its too similar with the Tracking Disruptor. ... Sounds interesting, but might be too similar with the target painters Sig resolution =! sig size sig size is as you probably know the size of the enemy ship. The sig resolution is a stat on guns, like 400m for a large waeapon. When you increase your sig resolution enemy ships will have bigger problems to hurt you. From Dusk till Dawn Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected])
Nafri Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.21 07:49:00 - [58] Another idea. Since lots of minmatar ships have useless launchers points, why dont give them boni to defenders when they are fixed of course? From Dusk till Dawn Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected])
Hugh Ruka Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.21 08:01:00 - [59] Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Knoppaz Originally by: Nafri I would prefer to have a module increasing the sig resolution of the targetted enemy ship. Minmatar ships are fast, increased sig resolution would be pretty handy for them But I fear its too similar with the Tracking Disruptor. ... Sounds interesting, but might be too similar with the target painters Sig resolution =! sig size sig size is as you probably know the size of the enemy ship. The sig resolution is a stat on guns, like 400m for a large waeapon. When you increase your sig resolution enemy ships will have bigger problems to hurt you. I'd say a TAG painter. Like you want to aid a bs sniper, you equip a tag painter that creates a TAG for the 400m gun. This will make the gun hit much better. However it will screw over small ships running into such a sniper :-) Maybe it is just my crazy idea that a target painter should assist long range guns in a way like " I point my painter on you and you are dead because the big guns behind me will see you and waste you". ------------------------------ if you want peace, prepare for war ... ------------------------------ Removed due to offensive content - Laqum I realy liked my signature. Oh well
Juan Andalusian TAOSP	Posted - 2006.07.21 08:15:00 - [60] Yeah and why don't we get a module that senses the targets lowest resist and loads the proper damage type ammo for us and fires all the weapons while at the same time orbiting at optimal. Riiight, any thing that makes pvp less dependant on player skill and more of an automatic procedure is a horrible idea. Pain is meant to be felt
Knoppaz Union of Corvus Corax	Posted - 2006.07.21 08:46:00 - [61] Edited by: Knoppaz on 21/07/2006 08:47:27 Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Knoppaz Originally by: Nafri I would prefer to have a module increasing the sig resolution of the targetted enemy ship. Minmatar ships are fast, increased sig resolution would be pretty handy for them But I fear its too similar with the Tracking Disruptor. ... Sounds interesting, but might be too similar with the target painters Sig resolution =! sig size sig size is as you probably know the size of the enemy ship. The sig resolution is a stat on guns, like 400m for a large waeapon. When you increase your sig resolution enemy ships will have bigger problems to hurt you. My bad, sorry.. Actually quite interesting idea. Something like +10% sig resolution and 5% explosion radius bonus on the module which get's enhanced by minnie ship bonus maybe? Btw, what's up with this forum lately?
Corphus Sha Kharn Corp Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.07.21 08:59:00 - [62] Originally by: Matsuo Masato uhmm.. no minmatar need a defensive Ewar just like the other races so my vote is on a sig reducing module stealth mods or stealth hullupgrades like a special plating which effectively reduces sigradius would be so awsome ! just like the stealth paint and materials used for b2 bommbers etc. reducing the reflected radar waves. would be sweet if i could reduce the sig radius of my cruiser by say 30 %..it would make it more survivable vs bs guns and would have the effect that target painters etc. could be used as counter modules against sig reduction mods. i can think of loads of possibilities for that kind of ew/hull modules .
Andrea Jaruwalski Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.21 09:31:00 - [63] I want the target painting bonus to be changed to 10% Tractor beam range. KILROCK'S GIRLY SIDE / WTS PILGRIM + CURSE + T2 DRONES PACKS
RoMUF	Posted - 2006.07.21 09:47:00 - [64] yeah switch the tp bonus for a web range bonus (less then the recon version ofc) or simply double or triple the stats on TP's.. or build in the tp's on tp bonus ships.
Chee Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.21 10:41:00 - [65] How about this: an ewar mod that you activate on target, and randomly de-activates 1 module of the target (if it hits). For the duration of the cycle the module cannot be activated. It could be a gun, launcher, scrambler, hardener, repper etc that gets 'jammed'. Would need very carefull tuning or it would be the death of all capital ships. Maybe depending on the module you have a chance to turn it off. Can imagine turning off a repper is pretty much the end for your target, so should be extra hard to shut down.
kessah Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.21 11:11:00 - [66] Just boost the ECM Burst module and give that to matari. -------------------------------------------------------- Forever Pirate
Elaron Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.21 11:40:00 - [67] One thought I had is perhaps a form of EW that detracts from the rate of fire of the opponant's offensive modules, say by 25%, so that a 10 second rate of fire would become 12.5 seconds. In the case of non-weapon offensive modules (eg NOS, web) there would be a gap between the end of one cycle of effect and the start of the next (eg web lasts 5 seconds, but with the 25% penalty it would last 5 seconds yet the module would only refresh every 6.25 seconds). Elaron It is never too late to correct the mistakes of the past.
Kaylana Syi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.21 12:23:00 - [68] Originally by: Meridius If somehow minnies were to get the TD bonus, i would suggest the Amarr get a bonus to webber range (to counter those fast minnies) or a multi-weapon disruption system that affects both turrets and missiles as that makes RP sense as well. Of course, the % penalty it would give would be much less then a TD since it works for 2 systems instead of 1. I'd support the webber bonus for amarr or a missile velocity disruptor for the minmatar. TPs are just really not that great of an Ewar for any race... it should be boosted across teh board and be a utility ewar. Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Kaylana Syi Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.21 12:42:00 - [69] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 21/07/2006 12:43:31 Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 21/07/2006 12:42:32 Originally by: Stamm Just going to point out the flaws in what you've said and ignore the insults. Minmatar are mixed weapon users, they have drones, missiles and turrets, they're more mixed than any other race. Target painters help drones a bit, help missiles a lot and help turrets a touch. Oh you mean the Typhoon? The only minmatar ship with a decent drone bay? One of the only ( breacher being the first, Huggin the other ) minmatars ship where fitting missiles isn't stupid? Yeah you convinced me there... target painters sure are good for boosting the entire minmatar race since everyone and their uncle can field a typhoon properly Quote: Now you're posting in a Minmatar EW thread, as a Minmatar and your suggestion is to swap your EW with Amarrs or give it a boost. Excuse me if I see that for what it looks like. I offered the quickest sensable change from an RP perspective. 3 ships make tracking distruption good... a little too good. Would you still use a curse, arbitrator and pilgrim if it didn't have tracking disruption? Yes you would. Are bellicoses, rapiers and huginn's used for their racial ewar as it stands? Not by a long shot. The bellicose is pretty worthless and the rapier and huginns are used for their stasis web ranges. Quote: As for the racial EW itself? It's not designed to be against anybody in particular. Obvioulsy you haven't payed attention to the 3 years of caldari vs gallente lore and reason why the devs. gave them each their ewar systems. Quote: Amarr - Turret specialists, makes sense that their EW is turret based. Minmatar - All gank and no tank, makes sense that their EW is designed to help inflict more damage. As far as tracking enhancers being better than target painters? Don't try to sell that... So the amarr are some cheeky race that like to go around turret disrupting each other. Oh wait chose to neglect the lore of EVE Minmatar all gank and no tank? Do you fly Minmatar ships or have any idea of how well they tank and gank? Target painters don't help this out... autocannons don't need target painters FYI... artillery are bullox for anything but fleet combat...and there is only one ship on the entire minmatar race that can effectively use the benefit of the TP and it the typhoon. Too bad it takes 1.5 years to train to do so. But I tell you what... amarr really do need those tracking disruptors to bring all the autocannon users and 200km away arty tempests to their knees Oh wait... Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Ithildin Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.21 13:33:00 - [70] I am so glad so many likes the idea, if not the racial implementation I suggested in part 1 of OP. I've updated the topic by removing the Minmatar reference, by the way, since a lot of you've convinced me that it isn't functioning as an EWar system, but rather as a good module to have for just about any combat ship. With regards to the POSes, with Kali we'll see a much improved scanning system, which will hopefully feature long-range scans (current 14.3 AU is too short). Granted that POSes are a mayor deterant for use in hostile space, a code might be added for increased usability. If the end-grid contains a POS, the accuracy and scatter will go insane (+1000% or something) which should be enough to drop your ship outside POS range most of the time. After all, the driving force behind the idea is to make combat a bit more involved, and not necessarily end when the enemy warps away. "Exploit" hole: Covert ops ships (with Cov Ops Cloak) will be able to follow nearly undetected unless a warning that the warp is being analysed is issued. Whether this is a hole that needs plugging, I do not know. Had it not been for Recon Ships, the answer would've been a clear "no, it need no plugging". "Exploit" workaround: gang warps to secondary safespots first and then to a safe spot immidiatly after. Since analyser requires lock, enemies will have more trouble following. Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death

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