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zomg ponies
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Posted - 2006.07.20 16:40:00 -
[1]
Edited by: zomg ponies on 20/07/2006 16:46:11
1st issue is regular maintenance times: Why do you take the game down MIDDAY european time for regular maintenance? Why can this not be done so it has LITTLE impact or is this the lowest player count time?
Now you take down the server to fix probably a stored procedure. Why not give a jesture of kindness and give us some ISK in compensation for abrupt interruptions to the game?
Good thing this is a pay to play service, we can always vote with our wallet or protest by not paying for a month :)
*bangs spoons against table...* "why are we waiting..... lalalalala..."
Please give us some ISK in compensation :)
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Hul'ka
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Posted - 2006.07.20 16:43:00 -
[2]
haha, yea!! 
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ShadowMonk
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Posted - 2006.07.20 16:45:00 -
[3]
i vote yeaaaas!
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NON NONAME
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Posted - 2006.07.20 16:46:00 -
[4]
never happen, i always thought xmas bonuses would be nice, but they never happen 
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RAAMSEES
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Posted - 2006.07.20 16:49:00 -
[5]
anybody know the eta? ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
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Shiroi Makenshi
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Posted - 2006.07.20 16:49:00 -
[6]
There's also the fact that real money is being wasted. (Good thing I didn't subscribe yet, or I'd be really annoyed.)
-----------------------------------------------
Coming soon:
Makenshi Corp.
Transport and mining services. |
RAAMSEES
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Posted - 2006.07.20 16:51:00 -
[7]
Edited by: RAAMSEES on 20/07/2006 16:52:00
doublepost
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zomg ponies
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Posted - 2006.07.20 16:51:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: RAAMSEES
anybody know the eta? ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
Yes
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Zaphoniggan
Lordless
Unbrella Alliance
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Posted - 2006.07.20 16:52:00 -
[9]
I can deal with extra downtime if they need to fix something, considering we get all the expansions for free, which is rare in MMORPG-land.
The only compensation I would ask for is a little more info on what the situation is.
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I refuse to use a sig until my picture is up
.... Wait this is a sig |
Shiroi Makenshi
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Posted - 2006.07.20 16:53:00 -
[10]
Well, it's up now.
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Coming soon:
Makenshi Corp.
Transport and mining services. |
zomg ponies
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Posted - 2006.07.20 16:53:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Zapho*****n
I can deal with extra downtime if they need to fix something, considering we get all the expansions for free, which is rare in MMORPG-land.
The only compensation I would ask for is a little more info on what the situation is.
Actually no, we pay for it in our subscription, thats what they agreed to sell and we pay for it. Its called a STORYLINE.
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randy andy
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Posted - 2006.07.20 16:53:00 -
[12]
/signed
1000 isk per minute for those who get kicked off
i know there be some poeple say they can earn more then this but please CCP cant look at the 11k+ players kicked off 1 by 1 to sort out a avg pay for each, but they should be able to genate a list of players that was online at shutdown and then can pay a geranel pay to all of them..
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RAMSEEES
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Posted - 2006.07.20 16:54:00 -
[13]
ITS UP!!!!!!!
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Eethrak
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Posted - 2006.07.20 17:25:00 -
[14]
I don't like the downtime on general principle. IMO, if something needs resetting each day, its badly designed. That said, I don't want to get into a flaming contest as to how big the database is, how little/much I know about these things, blahblahblahblahblah.
If you think about it, midday EU makes a lot of sense. Most American folk will be asleep (or close enough that shutting down makes little difference). Most EU folks would be at work. At a weekend, its much more inconvenient, but I think its better to have a single time rather than prat about having different times on different days.
My main concern is that extended downtime is happening on a fairly regular basis, and emergency downtime is reasonably common too. Now, Eve costs a fair bit in comparison to the other MMO I play (WoW) - I have a bank statement in front of me and its ú8.99 for WoW for 1 month and ú10.50 for Eve for the same. Now, I believe that Eve is worth a bit more than WoW, but come on, if you're charging more, you really ought to be offering at least as stable a service, or offering compensation for the time we can't play. I personally don't think that ISK is necessarily the way to do this, I'd much rather see that time credited back to us either in realtime, or as X-Y hours/days down per month = Z credit, but any compensation is better than paying for a service which we can't necessarily access 23/7. Compensation has been offered in the past I know, but there ought to be a highly visible policy as to what compensation is offered dependent on what level of service.
It seems to me that CCP are either over charging or not really up to scratch customer relations -wise.
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Alassra Eventide
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.20 17:35:00 -
[15]
I think extended/emergency downtimes are a small price to pay for an un-sharded game world.
btw, the agreement, in addition to stating the expansion/fee thing, also includes the fact that they can shut down at any time, as long as they like, the game servers.
In fact, most games have that in their agreements.
The only time that I know of where a game gave compensation for unscheduled downtime was when it occured for a day or more, although if someone could correct me on that one I'd be obliged.
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Gawain Gringolet
Phantom Knights
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Posted - 2006.07.20 17:50:00 -
[16]
In my experience MMOs have only given anything to the players when there was an unscheduled downtime that lasted for a long time (12+ hours)
In City of Heroes there were double XP weekends as compensation.
Anarchy Online rewarded people who suffered through the first 3 months with special items.
I THINK WoW added 1 or 2 free days to every account on shards that were down for extended time, but I could be wrong.
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Eethrak
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Posted - 2006.07.20 17:57:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Alassra Eventide
I think extended/emergency downtimes are a small price to pay for an un-sharded game world.
Really? Personally I prefer to be able to play rather than sit staring at a non-functional game whilst reading press releases about how great an unsharded world is. But maybe thats just me. Obviously at this point this decision can't be re-made, and in many ways, the game has evolved around the concept, but just because its an unsharded world, this shouldn't be used as an excuse for low quality of service.
Quote:
btw, the agreement, in addition to stating the expansion/fee thing, also includes the fact that they can shut down at any time, as long as they like, the game servers.
I'm not a lawyer, but I'd be curious as to how that one stood up in court. Subscription to a service that can be shut down for any period without refund? Sounds kind of dodgy to me as far as a binding contractual agreement goes.
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Adoro
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.20 19:06:00 -
[18]
How about they compensate us with free patches and extentions of the game? Wouldnt that be a great idea?...
Annoying kids these days
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I love escrow :) |
Sonos SAGD
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.20 19:39:00 -
[19]
they do dt at the time they do becaues thats when he real world is up and working and the server team doesn't want to wake up at 1 am while you are a sleep
nothing is perfect in computers bugs happen
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I lost 5 sp of skill trainning time during the last patch an i demand that ccp refund it to me |
Zaphoniggan
Lordless
Unbrella Alliance
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Posted - 2006.07.20 20:03:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Eethrak
Originally by: Alassra Eventide
I'm not a lawyer, but I'd be curious as to how that one stood up in court. Subscription to a service that can be shut down for any period without refund? Sounds kind of dodgy to me as far as a binding contractual agreement goes.
You still agreed to it
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I refuse to use a sig until my picture is up
.... Wait this is a sig |
Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.21 10:50:00 -
[21]
I think their choice is a good one. It's a shame they have to have a downtime but they do and that means we have to live with it. A continuously moving DT would be hell to plan for and is not an option. That means we have to pick a time.
The current time is:
* When US players are asleep or might as well go to bed.
* When EU players are at work or having lunch or might as well start preparing it.
* Ideally placed during normal office hours for a UK based server farm.
As for compensation for extended DT:You pay ú15 a month. That's 50c a day. That's .02c an hour. So yesterday we lost two hours. That means CCP owes you a fifth of a cent.
--
(Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.21 10:54:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Eethrak
I'm not a lawyer, but I'd be curious as to how that one stood up in court. Subscription to a service that can be shut down for any period without refund? Sounds kind of dodgy to me as far as a binding contractual agreement goes.
Good job you're not a lawyer. Contracts are judged on how reasonable they are. Few people in the industry would expect an online game to have a guarantee of 100% uptime and of course the providers might need to bring it down at a moment's notice.
--
(Battle hardened miner)
[Brackley, UK]
WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality. |
AardPsymon
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Posted - 2006.07.21 11:25:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Andrue
As for compensation for extended DT:You pay ú15 a month. That's 50c a day. That's .02c an hour. So yesterday we lost two hours. That means CCP owes you a fifth of a cent.
and good thing you aren't a math teacher. you dropped a decimal place.
2p per hour.
as for the scheduled downtime, there is no other way to maintain a large database or server. Your choice is scheduled downtime or progressively slower access. If you can't deal without having eve for an hour a day (at worst, often dt is 30 mins I've seen)
1) Get a life.
2) Go somewhere that doesn't have dt daily.
As for the specific timing, well. no matter when you put the down time, SOMEONE will want to play. and as Andrue pointed out, they might as well do it when its convinient for them not when they have to pay anti-social hours pay to the admins, which would just make subscriptions more expensive.
as for the emergency downtime, when it happens it happens. By its very nature either the server is going down anyway because of hardware failure or its a serious exploit. It would be nice for extended downtime to get back the subscription cost/time. However, bar reimbursement for items lost in game I don't see the need for ingame rewards.
</my two cents>
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Junsako Sato
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Posted - 2006.07.21 11:54:00 -
[24]
Many times the servers are up well before the scheduled time. Where any other game I played if they gave a 3 hour down time I would count on six and then add three more. 
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zomg ponies
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Posted - 2006.07.21 12:25:00 -
[25]
Edited by: zomg ponies on 21/07/2006 12:26:30
Actually I just came on line since I was at home and tried to play the game I PAY FOR yet I couldnt and didnt even have an ETA. I dont play for long periods of time but when I do, I expect it to be PLAYABLE. It may only be 50 mins or an hour but that maybe all I was going to play it for as other times I was busy. So I did suffer alot as I coudlnt play it when I wanted to. Its not the matter of JUST BEING 1 HOUR. ITs the fact it wasnt available when I was available to play it.
I for one am seriously reconsidering spending my money on a game that is not available when Im available. I only started subscribing and well, it doesnt look worth the money.
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NON NONAME
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Posted - 2006.07.21 12:47:00 -
[26]
And yet again we have extended DT without notice or explanation during the lost time, i think blanket emails to all players (customers) would be a bloody good idea. about to have 2 alts on 2 accounts needind skill changes, twice in 24hrs we loose skill time, congrats to CCP for the wonderful value for money !! 
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Tallen Vallur
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Posted - 2006.07.21 13:00:00 -
[27]
Wow this is amazing...the same sad old thread once again all about downtime and compensation.
There is no workaround for the daily downtime, nor does it cause a major disruption to gameplay. The amount of data dealt with is increadable.
The server was down yesterday because of a bug that needed fixing. It was to stop an exploit which threatened balance on escrow. And it wasn't a long downtime.
Extended downtime is to deply free patches and expantions. This is all to make the game better for everyone. That is what CCP do, they develop games.
Lets look at this real money compensation idea for a minute. Its rediculous. I would rather CCP spent the site doing what they are doing now, improving the game rather than the countless hours it would take to sift through 100,000 user accounts crediting them.
I play at varied times. Usually between 1 hour to 3 hours a day.....some days i dont. So lets say im missing out on 6 hours a day because im not playing. CCP dont know when im going to want to play. They dont know when the other 100,000 people are going to play. How can you compensate those who are "missing out on paid for game time" when theres 100,000 people of which maybe 15-25 thousand MIGHT just happen to want to play during the downtime?
You cant, its insane. If you want to get what you paid for, let CCP do their job. Stop complaining about compensation and downtime thats only a couple hours. No comment from them? Thats because they have a job to do, its part of their everyday life. Theres no reason to kick off on them just because they have something you dont.
EVE DOWN? OMG NOES! ....GET A GIRLFRIEND....got one?....WHAT YOU DOING MOANING ABOUT EVE FOR?
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Max Reloaded
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Posted - 2006.07.21 13:23:00 -
[28]
Originally by: zomg ponies
Edited by: zomg ponies on 21/07/2006 12:26:30
Actually I just came on line since I was at home and tried to play the game I PAY FOR yet I couldnt and didnt even have an ETA. I dont play for long periods of time but when I do, I expect it to be PLAYABLE. It may only be 50 mins or an hour but that maybe all I was going to play it for as other times I was busy. So I did suffer alot as I coudlnt play it when I wanted to. Its not the matter of JUST BEING 1 HOUR. ITs the fact it wasnt available when I was available to play it.
I for one am seriously reconsidering spending my money on a game that is not available when Im available. I only started subscribing and well, it doesnt look worth the money.
Yeah, I am not sure how old I was when I came to the shocking conclusion that the sun did not revolve around me either! Judging from your "personality" in the ingame chat, I am not sure whether you are even serious with this post or not. I would give it about 50/50 odds.
World of Warcraft has weekly scheduled downtime (or did when I played it). But in the almost two years I played that game I found a weekly trend in server lag/response time. The day after the maintenance was usually great and would last a couple more days. On the fourth day it started getting a little laggy. Fifth, laggier. Sixth and seventh were often barely playable until they did maintenance again. The grass is definitely NOT greener.
But I definitely agree with the attitude that we pay $15 a month or $.50 a day (in a 30 day month) or $.02 an hour (again, in a 30 day month). So that is 2 pennies an hour. To me, that is nothing. To them, when you multiply that by 100,000 subscriptions, that is almost $2,100 an hour. I think I would rather not have them decide to start charging for the BIG updates they continue to include in the cost of our monthly subscriptions to fund the idiots who want their 2 cents. But then maybe the idiots just need some sense? Get it? cents, sense, hehe, hrrrm, pfffft :p
As to keeping us informed? Who cares what the problem is? I mean does it make you feel better to know whether a server crashed or a router went down? If you worked with computers you would know that you are not grilling a hamburger. A downed router does not = 5 minutes where a crashed server = 15 minutes. They mean they will be up when they are up. They estimate how long it might take, but sometimes you get the server back up only to find the problem is a faulty power supply that you now have to change. Then that leads to a blown fuse. Other times you reboot and are running steadily. If you worked with this kind of equipment you would know that. If you do work with this kind of equipment and still have the attitude that they should keep you informed with up to the minute progress reports, then perhaps you need some cents as mentioned above? I would rather them not take the time to spell it out on the forums when they could be working ont he problem instead. Besides, history shows if they say 10 minutes and take 15 minutes they are cursed on the forums 2 seconds after the 10 minute estimate is up. Or you have self proclaimed experts saying "crashed server doesn't take 10 minutes, it should only take 5, what the hell are they doing?"
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Rykaro
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Posted - 2006.07.21 13:27:00 -
[29]
Erm you missed the fact that it was to stop an exploit that was introduced by a patch that was applied.....maybe they should use the money they make to improve quality assurance?
Further a lot of folks have complained about the unscheduled downtime (in this thread), and the replies have been about scheduled downtime. I for one think the 1 hour a day, everyday, to make sure that everything runs smoothly is a great idea. What I think most people resent is that they take the servers down for an hour a day every day and for the past few months everything hasn't been running smoothly.
As for the comment about patching and how on other games he doubles the time and then adds some....I recollect the last major patch when the game was supposed to be up at 9pm and didn't come back to 10am the following day (and then they took it down again an hour later for DT).
All in all I think Eve is a fantastic game but I believe it's the unscheduled downtime without any real apology that is causing concern, the amount of money CCP make they could at least give us that. The idea of ISK as compensation though is a little ludicrous and would unalance the game economy (inflation anyone?). And yes CCP did give out compensation, once...it was about 2 years ago we got a day free due to unscheduled downtime of about 4 hours if my memory serves me. |
Vetur
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Posted - 2006.07.21 14:05:00 -
[30]
Just a few points:
1. The game's back up. The downtime wasn't really all that long - I've seen worse.
2. Lawyers or no lawyers, we all agreed to the EULA that says CCP don't guarantee reliable up-time. If you don't like it, don't sign it. If you do, then of course it'll stand up in court because you read it and agreed.
3. As already mentioned, the upgrades and expansions are free, which is nice. Some whiners will complain that they sometimes introduce bugs. Big deal - they're still free.
4. Downtime happens. Learn to live with it. There are other things in life than EVE. At least while the server's down, no-one else is doing better than you.
5. I wonder if there'll ever be an extended downtime go by without the 'damn you ccp i want compensation' thread coming up? |
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