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What's wrong with ECM?

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Morke	Posted - 2006.07.21 11:20:00 - [1] Hi. I've recently read some threads with the plea to 'fix' ECM. What is being referred to? What's the problem with the ECM system as it is now? Morke
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.21 11:24:00 - [2] Read those threads again? ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT!
Noluck Ned Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.21 11:25:00 - [3] Dont get us started.......oops too late. The problem boils down to: Equip ECM or be at a (Big)disadvantage. Fights are becomeing something like: Lock as fast as you can, hit Jam, I win. That is not balanced.
Crumplecorn Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.21 11:32:00 - [4] It's chance based, which sucks. Dice are (supposed to be) redundant when you can just calculate the exact outcome of the situation in a full 3-D simulation. ---------- Always Up To SomethingÖ One of us is really thick, and I hope its you - Kalaan Oratay
CharlieMurphy	Posted - 2006.07.21 11:37:00 - [5] when faced with warp scramblers people fit warp core stabs.. when faced with ecm people moan about it on the forums eccm is in the game and yet is (i think) extreamly rarely used bit odd really
Karl Shade FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.07.21 11:39:00 - [6] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Read those threads again? Pretty much. -
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.21 11:43:00 - [7] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 21/07/2006 11:43:52 Originally by: CharlieMurphy when faced with warp scramblers people fit warp core stabs.. when faced with ecm people moan about it on the forums eccm is in the game and yet is (i think) extreamly rarely used bit odd really The problem is that target jamming & defence is based on pure luck. Warp scrambling and warp stabilizers are based on points. Anyways, I agree with Jenny... we dont need another thread on this. Just equip eccm, its the best you can do right now. Or fit a multispectral of your own, even better. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Crumplecorn Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.21 11:46:00 - [8] My only direct experience with ECM was when a corpmate's blackbird locked me, I told him I might just have to fire back (in my 'rax) and he told me to try, and started NOSing and ECMing me. I flew outside NOS range, waited for a gap in the jamming, sent drones in, and then proceeded to accidentally break his shield tank as when I lost my lock I couldn't see his status. Heard about this happenening to someone else too..... Silly Caldari ---------- Always Up To SomethingÖ One of us is really thick, and I hope its you - Kalaan Oratay
Rafein Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.07.21 11:47:00 - [9] Originally by: Noluck Ned Dont get us started.......oops too late. The problem boils down to: Equip ECM or be at a (Big)disadvantage. Fights are becomeing something like: Lock as fast as you can, hit Jam, I win. That is not balanced. Meh, that's like saying fit guns/missiles, or be a a big disadvantage, so nerf guns/missiles. Personally, I wold like to see ECM more limited, with SW hardpoints for mids, And perhaps rewriting the sensor strengths and making ECM no longer chance based, if you can put more points of jam on him than his sensor strength, you can jam him forever. Which would instantly make ECCM worthwhile, as it tkes more points to Jam you, and he does not get a lucky roll on occasion. Only thing is, sensor strength would have to be a bit weaker across the board on base ships, but it could work.
Nymos Haiduken Industries	Posted - 2006.07.21 11:48:00 - [10] Originally by: Jim McGregor The problem is that target jamming & defence is based on pure luck. Warp scrambling and warp stabilizers are based on points. that's how it used to be. why was it changed back then? ppl dissatisfied with the old system where you had to stack jammers to match the sensor strength of a ship? i'd prefer that too tbh even though it would hurt me as a specialized EW pilot.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.21 11:49:00 - [11] Originally by: Nymos Originally by: Jim McGregor The problem is that target jamming & defence is based on pure luck. Warp scrambling and warp stabilizers are based on points. that's how it used to be. why was it changed back then? ppl dissatisfied with the old system where you had to stack jammers to match the sensor strength of a ship? i'd prefer that too tbh even though it would hurt me as a specialized EW pilot. Yeah, I dont know why it was changed... and i agree it was better. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.07.21 11:51:00 - [12] Originally by: Noluck Ned Dont get us started.......oops too late. The problem boils down to: Equip ECM or be at a (Big)disadvantage. Fights are becomeing something like: Lock as fast as you can, hit Jam, I win. That is not balanced. ECCM? Works for me. >> RECRUITING <<
Crumplecorn Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.21 11:55:00 - [13] Originally by: Nymos Originally by: Jim McGregor The problem is that target jamming & defence is based on pure luck. Warp scrambling and warp stabilizers are based on points. that's how it used to be. why was it changed back then? ppl dissatisfied with the old system where you had to stack jammers to match the sensor strength of a ship? i'd prefer that too tbh even though it would hurt me as a specialized EW pilot. It would be the same as warp scrambling is now, and it works, although people don't like WCS . Though, while I am willing to fit many WCS in non-combat situations to survive gatecamps, ECCM would be for combat situations, and I don't want to fit counter modules for possible situations, so I'd never use ECCM just like I never use WCS (in combat). Best if for a ship to effectively jam anything bigger than a shuttle requires the ship to be dedicated to it, so in combat you really wouldn't even try to counter it, just hope the enemy didn't dedicate a ship to it. Blah blah discussed to death elsewhere ---------- Always Up To SomethingÖ One of us is really thick, and I hope its you - Kalaan Oratay
Jazz Bo Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.21 12:00:00 - [14] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Nymos Originally by: Jim McGregor The problem is that target jamming & defence is based on pure luck. Warp scrambling and warp stabilizers are based on points. that's how it used to be. why was it changed back then? ppl dissatisfied with the old system where you had to stack jammers to match the sensor strength of a ship? i'd prefer that too tbh even though it would hurt me as a specialized EW pilot. Yeah, I dont know why it was changed... and i agree it was better. It was changed because there were only two or three ships (Blackbirds, Scorpions-sitting-at-120km and lightly-armor-tanked-Ravens) that could do EW before, since you needed 4-6 med slots for it to work. And it makes no sense to have such an important part of PvP restricted like that. -j . (\_/) (O.o) (> <)This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
Majaraw Awalabas Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.21 12:03:00 - [15] New ECM system meant even Amarrians can use EW. Prior to that only three Amarr ships at the time could jam a battleship. I like it.
fairimear Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.21 12:05:00 - [16] heres the example. Falcon has say 6 ecm mods fitted. in prior systems this may have been enoght to jam 3 small ships and 2 bigger/higher tech level ships. because each ecm had a -stregth and the ships had a set stregth, a example being a badger with 10ecom gravimetric wuld require 1 -6gravemetric and -4 to jam it. todays system means that the falcon can now jam 6 ships. 1 for each mod fitted, with a chance that it will jam or not. and it seems they are poorly balanced and jamm more times than they fail. this leads to ships like the falcon being able to blanket jam and render entire fleets useless.
Noluck Ned Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.21 12:24:00 - [17] Edited by: Noluck Ned on 21/07/2006 12:24:36 Originally by: Rafein Meh, that's like saying fit guns/missiles, or be a a big disadvantage, so nerf guns/missiles. No, not the same thing at all, especially considering that I dont fit guns/missiles on my Domi. I never fit warp stabs which means I can get scrambled, but the trade off is that I have a deeper tank, so that if they catch me they better be ready for a looong fight. If I go out without fitting either my own ECM or ECCM(Which I have given a fair try) I have no counter other than to hope my drones aggro the guy. In the end ECM is more useful in the mid slot cause its a combination Defensive/aggressive module which sometimes doesent work, rather than ECCM which is a purely defensive module...which sometimes doesent work.
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.21 12:29:00 - [18] ECM is helping turning drone boats into pwnmobiles. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Crumplecorn Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.21 12:36:00 - [19] Originally by: Jazz Bo Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Nymos Originally by: Jim McGregor The problem is that target jamming & defence is based on pure luck. Warp scrambling and warp stabilizers are based on points. that's how it used to be. why was it changed back then? ppl dissatisfied with the old system where you had to stack jammers to match the sensor strength of a ship? i'd prefer that too tbh even though it would hurt me as a specialized EW pilot. Yeah, I dont know why it was changed... and i agree it was better. It was changed because there were only two or three ships (Blackbirds, Scorpions-sitting-at-120km and lightly-armor-tanked-Ravens) that could do EW before, since you needed 4-6 med slots for it to work. And it makes no sense to have such an important part of PvP restricted like that. -j . Yeah, that'd be like only using warp jammers on small fast ships designed for tackling. Oh, wait..... ---------- Always Up To SomethingÖ One of us is really thick, and I hope its you - Kalaan Oratay
FatherWeebless	Posted - 2006.07.21 18:41:00 - [20] It all boils down to any newb can fight as many ecms and almost always win a fight against a none drone ship.

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