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Fennes
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Posted - 2006.07.22 19:01:00 -
[1]
The idea that this camera behavior is "standard in games like this" is ludicrous. "Games like this" could only mean 3D games, and every single one I've ever played had an "invert mouse" option.
"You'll get used to it" doesn't work for me either. You'll get used to wood screws in your kneecaps eventually. I don't want to get used to it.
Why would it be left out in Eve?
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.22 19:05:00 -
[2]
Because invert mouse is only applicable to games that use the mouse as a navigation system.
For example, FPSs use the mouse for aiming (turning your gun's camera, as the gun sight always stays in the middle of the screen). Flight sims like Freespace use it for turning your ship.
However, EVE's interface is much more like Windows, Gnome, KDE, or any other GUI OS. It has menus, buttons, and the like. The mouse isn't used for any sort of steering or aiming at all.
You have far more experience in your life using a non-inverted mouse--unless you turn on inverted mouse in Windows itself, in which case it would be also inverted in EVE, and you wouldn't be whining.
--Proud member of the [23]--
-WTS Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II, Medium Warp Bubbles- |
Trepkos
Angel Deep Corporation
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Posted - 2006.07.22 19:05:00 -
[3]
Who would want a invert mouse option in a game that isn't a FPS.
Pretty stupid.
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Brisi
Sniggerdly
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Posted - 2006.07.22 19:09:00 -
[4]
Why would you want that? Would you use an invert-mouse option in windows?
I am Brisi, I am as One. Resistance is fertile.
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Buster Bloodvessel
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Posted - 2006.07.22 19:16:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Dark Shikari
Because invert mouse is only applicable to games that use the mouse as a navigation system.
For example, FPSs use the mouse for aiming (turning your gun's camera, as the gun sight always stays in the middle of the screen). Flight sims like Freespace use it for turning your ship.
However, EVE's interface is much more like Windows, Gnome, KDE, or any other GUI OS. It has menus, buttons, and the like. The mouse isn't used for any sort of steering or aiming at all.
You have far more experience in your life using a non-inverted mouse--unless you turn on inverted mouse in Windows itself, in which case it would be also inverted in EVE, and you wouldn't be whining.
pwned 
wystler stole my sig |
Caleb Paine
Itchy Trigger Finger Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.22 19:27:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Caleb Paine on 22/07/2006 19:28:19
Why wouldn't you want such an option. Because some people are used to it, it's easy to implement and I'd say 95% of the games have such an option? There's no reason not to implement it.
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Death smiles at us all, all a man can do is smile back.
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Phoenix Lord
The Arrow Project
The ARR0W Project
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Posted - 2006.07.22 19:31:00 -
[7]
read what was said above, EVE's UI is sorta like windows. Would you EVER use invert mouse in windows?
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Meet... bunneh:
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Trepkos
Angel Deep Corporation
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Posted - 2006.07.22 19:41:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Caleb Paine
Edited by: Caleb Paine on 22/07/2006 19:28:19
Why wouldn't you want such an option. Because some people are used to it, it's easy to implement and I'd say 95% of the games have such an option? There's no reason not to implement it.
And 95% of 'the games' operate similar to a Windows O/S GUI?
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Caleb Paine
Itchy Trigger Finger Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.22 19:52:00 -
[9]
He is talking about CAMERA movement, some games just move the camera the other way round (vertically) and it's something you need to get used to... OR the game actually has an option for it.
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Death smiles at us all, all a man can do is smile back.
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Serious Bob
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Posted - 2006.07.22 21:29:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Serious Bob on 22/07/2006 21:31:49
I just played another game with invert mouse on.. luckily I could turn it off. God it felt awful.
Edit: Realised this was probably about the x-axis. Have no problems either way there.. but inverted y? Shoot me.
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Suze'Rain
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Posted - 2006.07.22 21:32:00 -
[11]
turn your mouse upside down.
sorted.
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Caleb Paine
Itchy Trigger Finger Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.22 21:33:00 -
[12]
exactly, to each his own so having it as an option is the best solution, and it's not like it'll need a complete UI overhaul or something to get done.
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Death smiles at us all, all a man can do is smile back.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.22 21:37:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Suze'Rain
turn your mouse upside down.
sorted.
--Proud member of the [23]--
-WTS Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II, Medium Warp Bubbles- |
Eximius Josari
Citizens of E.A.R.T.H.
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2006.07.22 21:44:00 -
[14]
Eve, a game you can play just as good with absolutely no graphical element beyond the GUI.
Course its nice to look a things. The camera is fine...and it's hardly vital to anyone not using the scanner.
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Pardack
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.22 21:55:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Caleb Paine
exactly, to each his own so having it as an option is the best solution, and it's not like it'll need a complete UI overhaul or something to get done.
Agreed. EvE is a very limiting game in terms of key bindings and UI options. You get used to it, but there's a TON of on/off options that would make the UI/Game even that much better.
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Ling Xiao
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Posted - 2006.07.22 21:59:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Ling Xiao on 22/07/2006 21:59:36
Um double clicking in space is a common navigation method, and the only way to travel in an arbitrary direction. So saying "The mouse isn't used for any sort of steering or aiming at all" is wrong.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.22 22:08:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ling Xiao
Um double clicking in space is a common navigation method, and the only way to travel in an arbitrary direction. So saying "The mouse isn't used for any sort of steering or aiming at all" is wrong.
"Double clicking" isn't navigation using the mouse, as I meant.
"Navigation with the mouse" is *moving the mouse, which directly causes your ship to move*. In that case, inverting can really matter.
--Proud member of the [23]--
-WTS Heavy Electron II, 100mn AB II, Medium Warp Bubbles- |
Mtthias Clemi
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.22 22:12:00 -
[18]
mouse inversion is only applicable to games where hte mous edirectly effects movement... FPS, Flight sims and the like, would you invert your mouse playing an RTS?? No becuase its pointless.. it just means your mouse pointer moves in the ooposite direction to what is obvious... why would you want that?
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Shigsy
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.22 22:13:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Suze'Rain
turn your mouse upside down.
sorted.
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Trak Cranker
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Posted - 2006.07.22 22:25:00 -
[20]
Camera movement and other gui interaction is separated from each other by the holding button down in space and dragging. You could easily have inverted mouse for that and fall back to normal desktop-like movement when you are not camera dragging.
Just rotating your mouse would not equate that. :)
And a quick field study shows it to be quite ineffective. :)
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Benco97
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.22 23:47:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Benco97 on 22/07/2006 23:48:06
hmm... you aren't tilting the camera drone, imaging that you are actually sliding it about on the surface of a bubble, the centre of which is your ship.
For that the current system works fine and inverting it would be very odd indeed, HOWEVER, holding right click DOES tilt the camera drone and so perhaps an invert option for that? I wouldn't use it but I suppose some would...
It works like it does in FPSs because you are TILTing the "head" of your character to move your field of view, if the current regular camera drone movement system was implemented into an FPS you would actually only be raising/lowering you viewpoint by moving up and down (which would actually be dragging your head up and down).
Umm.... somewhere in there I tried to make a point but I got lost on the way so please if anyone understands what I said could you explain it better?
Snug Radio - Fart like a Pirate |
Leilani Solaris
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.23 00:01:00 -
[22]
Inverted mouse is a horrible feature and totally pointless, if i move my mouse left, i want it to go left.. not right...
This idea is horrible, please don't come up with any more ideas.
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Kaladr
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.23 00:05:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Leilani Solaris
Inverted mouse is a horrible feature and totally pointless, if i move my mouse left, i want it to go left.. not right...
This idea is horrible, please don't come up with any more ideas.
Generaly only the vertical axis is inverted, and its mostly for flight simulators, where traditional controls have a pull back motion on the yoke raise the elevator to increase your pitch. Its done because it makes sense.
It doesn't make sense in EVE and would make the UI impossible to use
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EVE-Central.com - Cross-region market view and trade finder |
Cringeley
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.23 00:14:00 -
[24]
Inverted mouse in Eve doesn't make any sense. The way it's set up now it's like you're grabbing the world (or your ship) and rotating it (which in practice means rotating the camera around it). It's intuitive.
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Thrice is he armed who has his quarrel just,
But four times he who gets his blow in fust. |
Nacho Man
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.23 01:37:00 -
[25]
jeez, you have some serious problems.
I am a FPS vetern, and have moved over to this 3rd person view. I can't believe that you even think this is a problem.
Shame on you.
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Trak Cranker
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Posted - 2006.07.23 01:57:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Kaladr
Originally by: Leilani Solaris
Inverted mouse is a horrible feature and totally pointless, if i move my mouse left, i want it to go left.. not right...
This idea is horrible, please don't come up with any more ideas.
It doesn't make sense in EVE and would make the UI impossible to use
Yeah, because it would also be inverted when you wasn't dragging the camera view. Of course it would. Silly me. 
I don't miss it, personally, but saying that it would not work for Eve, is seriously wrong. And what makes sense is really up the beholder.
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JamesTalon
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.23 02:56:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Suze'Rain
turn your mouse upside down.
sorted.
I tried. Its incredibly annoying and hard....
EVEBay
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Lardarz B'stard
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.23 07:09:00 -
[28]
I would actually quite like a invert mouse feature too, at least for the camera.
Exiles Recruitment |
Mark A
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.23 08:39:00 -
[29]
Of course inverting the GUI mouse movements makes no sense, but I don't think that's what the OP meant. Inverting x/y/zoom when moving the camera (ie with the mouse button held down) is perfectly valid.
At the moment the convention is like you are rotating the object, ie you are grabbing and dragging what's under the mouse (this is more evident rotating your ship while docked. This is the more "normal" convention from 3D modelling packages etc., and resembles the Adobe-style "grabbing hand" drag of Acrobat or Photoshop where you are conceptually grabbing the canvas and pulling it around. However this is the opposite to the "scroll bar" convention where you are moving the view, not the document. Note that in EVE the camera indeed moves the opposite way to the mouse.
So I think there's a decent argument for preferences, although you do get used to it pretty quick.
BTW Microsoft Games did some research on the whole "invert y" thing for FPS (for Halo specifically) and found the population is split almost exactly 50:50. Guess it depends on whether you grew up with arcade games and flight sims or Word and Excel ;).
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Kata Dakini
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Posted - 2006.07.23 10:56:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Kata Dakini on 23/07/2006 10:55:45
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