This happend when Caldari were at T3/T4 during the Test period and for some times before that.


Just attribute it to the pendulum swings and carry on.

There is no more pendulum.

I hope, that once this historic campaign is completed, the breakaway corporations that form the so-called "Caldari State" will return to the Federation, with full rights and responsibilities therein.

No matter what your ideas may tell you; you and your people are fighting a war of oppression. We have more in common with the Intaki and Mannars than you Gallenteans and your oppressive governments and regimes. You're the evil faction, the Amarr of this war.

With the current situation of cross farming militas the simple question arises -

when will all toons have joined gal mil - farm in easy minmatar space and pay out in gal stores?

It is sad that FW is ****** up that hard - but there are facts we can not deny.

The FW system is broken - nothing is moving or swinging any more.

You gals may not have noticed that.

CCP made you guys win all - that is how CCP made the game. They even went so far to actively support you lads. CCP has every right to do so - it is their product.


Gals have the dev`s, the most OP ships etc. Best space, most null accesees etc.


So all will join gal mil.

X Gallentius, the last bastion of Fed RP.

The sad thing is that the lol-RP is better than the real RP on IGS.

The problem is there is no incentive to join the losing side.

You can farm in minnie space 23/7 - that is the power of cross farming. The minnie FW L4 are so easy, you can do them in a bomber - that is all the minmatar milita does all day and night.

I would prefer an all out war all factions against each other.

risk an ishtar

A risk is an action that holds a chance of danger or failure.

Not empty quoting

The FW system is broken - nothing is moving or swinging any more.

You gals may not have noticed that.

CCP made you guys win all - that is how CCP made the game. They even went so far to actively support you lads. CCP has every right to do so - it is their product.


Gals have the dev`s, the most OP ships etc. Best space, most null accesees etc.


So all will join gal mil.

we dont join FW to pve, we join to pvp

lol'd

Once you realize that occupancy is a completely broken game

It's only broken if you don't win.

With the current situation of cross farming militas the simple question arises -

when will all toons have joined gal mil - farm in easy minmatar space and pay out in gal stores?

It is sad that FW is ****** up that hard - but there are facts we can not deny.

/o\ Mmm, CAOD is that way >>>>>>>

So much truth right there. We didn't hold our home systems with alts.

Gals are OP. It is a fact - easy to prove.


No one steals your victory or complains about you guys rolling the warzone, Xgal. Credit where it is due.


The intelligent players wants other players to play the game.


FW is totally broke and nothing than an ISK cow.


We can not fix that.

Sorry, trollposts are the only valid response to whine posts. The "Gallente are the favored sons of Eve" and "Plexing Alts win FW" are last year's excuses. And they would make perfect sense if not for the fact that Gallente have always had the worst rats to deal with, and we've thrived even though Caldari have always had more alts than us (until about 30 days ago).

So much truth right there. We didn't hold our home systems with alts.

No one denied having alts. Just corrected you since you seem to believe people still capture systems with them and their d-plexing capabilities somehow fend off a determined assault.

In a way deplexing alts have ensured that every single system taken is done with some sort of pvp capable force.

Now, continue to entertain us with your presupposed grievances with a mechanic you try very hard to misunderstand.

so just kill the alts ...

4 month ago a 4000 people alliance joined caldari militia ...
Instant gratification WoW players are ruining one of the coolest parts of EvE, FW you could have said that at this time now look at the numbers back in the days there was more tha 1.5 K people in difference between the 2 militia now and only since 15 days galmil > calmil in term of numbers of pilots same on the amarr/minma side
a 0.0 alliance join amarr +1500 avatars.... so !!

FW = Null sec junior. Instead of blobs of 2000 battleships supporting caps and supers, we have blobs of 200 destroyers. \o/

IMO fw should involve a completely different type of warfare. Like Master Sergeant MacRobert keeps saying eve should have opportunities for all sorts of play styles. If you like the idea of blobbing a single system and winning a war based on being able to do that there is already null sec.

IMO FW should be for a different type of fighting. It should involve more than winning because you can put a bigger blob in a single system or 2. It should be constant fighting spread out throughout the war zone.

You should have to care if someone is plexing up your system enough to go fight them. You should think well I can just put an alt in there and deplex after he leaves. Timer rollbacks will frustrate alt rabbit plexers and thereby make it more important to fight the guy offensive plexing to begin with.

CCP could change the lp payouts again to favor dplexing, but only in the traditional own faction regions. Or something else, it really doesn't matter. They could put some built in brakes. LP is an npc construct. All sorts of ways then to mess with it's accumulation under the guise of rp/back story.

Hopefully this current conquest will convince CCP to do something again with lp/tiers/plexes/missions to bring a dynamic stability that really we all want. While it is smugly satisfying to take the entire warzone, actually, all of us would rather have more exciting fights against calmil than against opportunistic bored nullsec or pirate interlopers.

This way one side doesn't get completely tanked for income and pilots while the other side rolls in ISK and new recruits.

Bottom line: Your militia can either muster up a large blob to hold one system long enough to take it, or there is nothing you can do to really contribute to the occupancy war.


FW = Null sec junior. Instead of blobs of 2000 battleships supporting caps and supers, we have blobs of 200 destroyers. \o/

IMO fw should involve a completely different type of warfare. Like Master Sergeant MacRobert keeps saying eve should have opportunities for all sorts of play styles. If you like the idea of blobbing a single system and winning a war based on being able to do that there is already null sec.

IMO FW should be for a different type of fighting. It should involve more than winning because you can put a bigger blob in a single system or 2. It should be constant fighting spread out throughout the war zone.

You should have to care if someone is plexing up your system enough to go fight them. You should think well I can just put an alt in there and deplex after he leaves. Timer rollbacks will frustrate alt rabbit plexers and thereby make it more important to fight the guy offensive plexing to begin with.



They just run a system or 2 over and plex there.

I don't think I've yet seen a galmil fleet with 200 members, and that's in 2 and half years in galmil. So it appears you are just pulling a number out of your ass. Anyway, Caldari always had more characters until recently. And for a long time they could put together some rather large blobs (better than us in US prime even). Blobbage is all relative. But please 200, more like always less than 100 on either side is more accurate.

Gathering forces together, blobbage if you will, is necessary to contest a home system.

How the Caldari got to their last remaining system again is a combination of the tier lp payout feedback loop inducing farmers to plex mostly for the side that already has an advantage, and the better ability of Galmil to pvp siege Caldari home systems. One of these factors CCP can address. The other is out of their hands.

How can people that lose at FW be so adamant they understand it better then those that win, and have fun while doing so?

You really need to join a militia that wins occasionally.

People that are adamant they understand the game better than the people beating them are pretty annoying.

Actually, I think most of those participating weren't around the last time.

Just don't complain when it smells bad and looks like a rotten taco.

Doesn't matter, the numpty polesmokers leading this travesty certainly were. (for the most part)



It's all good, if scoring with the hot chick who already got gang banged by 100's of your friends is your thing, have at it.
Just don't complain when it smells bad and looks like a rotten taco.

All I can smell at the moment is bitter. Lighten up a bit :p

Very serious post, was only expecting squid tears, but some qcats tears is a bonus!

Push has been going on for weeks (with some awesome action) and qcats CEO doesnt even know about it, kinda illustrates how sadly redundant they are.

Hot damn crosi, uninformed and wrong as usual. Have another drink mate.

Why does Cosi purposely manage to find a way to annoy everyone regardless if its his own alliance mates or the enemy. That's true bitterness right there.

What exactly does Gallente hope to get out of 100% warzone control? Is it simply just epeen rights that you spent half the day at the computer running a button? Or do you want fights? If it's the latter, I think there are other ways of getting fights rather than sitting on a button with a blob of other people and bullying an opponent who is nowhere near organized as you are.

What exactly does Gallente hope to get out of 100% warzone control? Is it simply just epeen rights that you spent half the day at the computer running a button? Or do you want fights? If it's the latter, I think there are other ways of getting fights rather than sitting on a button with a blob of other people and bullying an opponent who is nowhere near organized as you are.

Pretty sure he called me and other members of his corp and alliance polesmockers. Kinda silly for someone that doesnt really play the game to still abuse people on the forums about it.

Alliance or no, elitism in a space submarine game is always fun to address.

What exactly does Gallente hope to get out of 100% warzone control? Is it simply just epeen rights that you spent half the day at the computer running a button? Or do you want fights? If it's the latter, I think there are other ways of getting fights rather than sitting on a button with a blob of other people and bullying an opponent who is nowhere near organized as you are.

Not putting them under pressure will not help them get better. Where were people like you when caldari dominated the entire warzone for 8 months?

So as I said above, the reward are way too good for how little it takes. No one wants to join the losing side and these said players are only here for the ISK. They need to change the mentality from "join FW to afk farm billions" to "join FW for PVP regardless of the rewards". It can only be done by nerfing the rewards to the ground or giving lot of LPs for killing a FW target.

Having said that, I'm proud of what Gal mil has accomplished over the years (this isn't a pat on my back, the latter 3 years hasn't really involved me). We've held against a numerically superior force for many, many years and kept trucking even when things looked bleak.

Just thought I'd toss in some congrats before my sub runs out in this game in a few months and I probably quit for good.

o/ Gallente

I agree with most of your post, except for the "no one wants to join the losing side" part. If the system allowed us to, I would have probably moved QCATS over to the Caldari militia sometime after Gallente captured every single system. Being on the losing side in FW is the most fun this game has to offer IMO (up there with wardeccing brave newbies when they lived in lowsec).

Having said that, I'm proud of what Gal mil has accomplished over the years (this isn't a pat on my back, the latter 3 years hasn't really involved me). We've held against a numerically superior force for many, many years and kept trucking even when things looked bleak.

Just thought I'd toss in some congrats before my sub runs out in this game in a few months and I probably quit for good.

PS: Robocraft is an amazing game for any eve bittervets like myself who really enjoyed the EFT/pvp side of this game. If only I could combine something as customizable as robocraft in a sandbox MMO like eve it'd be awesome. (Oh, and I'd ******* give plexs timer rollbacks so that fighting is actually more efficient for sov than running, but I'll resist filling this post with CCP raging).

o/ Gallente

Congratulations Fedo's. Job's nearly done!

Crosi, why did you vanish from Ladistier about an hour after downtime last night when you were challenged to a 1v1 in your Garmur? I logged off very disappointed.

No matter what your ideas may tell you; you and your people are fighting a war of oppression. We have more in common with the Intaki and Mannars than you Gallenteans and your oppressive governments and regimes. You're the evil faction, the Amarr of this war.

lol! Honestly I really wish I was the bitter prick people like you make me out to be. I really do. Oh what fun that would be...

Very serious post, was only expecting squid tears, but some qcats tears is a bonus!

Push has been going on for weeks (with some awesome action) and qcats CEO doesnt even know about it, kinda illustrates how sadly redundant they are....

Aww you are upset, being wrong about something as inconsequential as qcats leadership is understandable. Some great pilots, in a once great corp. Many of the active ones helping with the push, polesmokers right, lol.

If you dont like FW, then its probably time to leave. Hardly anyone would notice.

I dont and never will accept arranged fights or 1v1, the hunt is almost all of the fun, the kill is a technicality based entirely on a correct hunt.

Everyone joins the FW just to plex. I never cared for the winner, loser or the ISK income. I was here for the quick fights I could get without having to risk huge ships. My experience was complete crap in both factions. Around 99% of the players would warp away, cloak or burn away from me at 4k+ ms in bullshit fit. At one point, I was so desperate for a fight, I warped my Rifter at 0 on a DD and he bailed out(who the **** does that?).

So as I said above, the reward are way too good for how little it takes. No one wants to join the losing side and these said players are only here for the ISK. They need to change the mentality from "join FW to afk farm billions" to "join FW for PVP regardless of the rewards". It can only be done by nerfing the rewards to the ground or giving lot of LPs for killing a FW target.

Until then, I'd rather just fly in nullsec, it's much easier to get a fight.

....

Well............you could come hunt me 1v1 maybe.

My esteemed colleagues in the Gallente Militia learned a great deal from being on the receiving end of CalMil superior numbers. We can only hope that Templis CALSF, GHIOT, OMG, and other combat oriented Caldari Militia corporations can learn as quickly.

It will be interesting to see their inevitable counter assault.

In the meantime - enjoy you warzone success.

Guys, after gals won FW - there is only one thing to do about FW.

We need a serious new start.

The current system is so ****** up that it is not worth playing.

We need a four faction FW board - not some CSM crap that does not work.

CCP does not care for us, its players in general or its factions.

And right they are.

Our game is their job.

It is up to us players to come on with some new ways or FW will be total dead.


I, for myself, would unite all fourr milita and wage war on null sex.

I, for myself, would unite all fourr milita and wage war on null sex.

All the factions have been winning and losing at faction war since it came out. The basic problem of rabbit plexing has never been addressed. It existed in 2008 when ank posted about capping over 100 plexes in 2 weeks without a kill and it exists now with XG talking about capping 100 plexes with his alt in the same amount of time.

I see with my eyes what happens in the warzone. I see the alts warping off. I see the api statistics and look at the killboards of those who get the most vp for a day. I see that when one side has sufficiently more numbers in a fleet the other side - yes even gallente - stands down. Plenty of my time in huola was spent plexing while gallente/minmatar pilots sat there docked up because they simply didn't have the numbers. When they had the numbers amarr/caldari stood down. I don't need to drink the kool-aid certain people offer on these forums about occupancy proving some sort of pvp prowess. I believe my own eyes more than what I read in the forums.

FW never was null sex light - no nulbear ally would ever be able to hold sov on more than maybe 20 systems if it sov would be like FW.

Imagine station lockouts in null sex - all the nullbears would unsub in fear.

FW attack on null - why destroyers, cerar? My old corp alone could field about 12 caps with 3 or 4 players. In the past there were tons of caps in FW - in the age of BC and BS fights. Every simgle campaign against home systems was cap based - try to move war POSs, fuel and some 500 ships . . .


CCP - in their wisdom - made FW not null sex light but home for newbees - that was the idea behind the age of farming alts.

With FW utterly broken - I do not care.

There is so much more to play in EVE.

Btw, my old corp only attacked huola out of sheer boredom - the lads had the said intention to quit EVE after the campaign - because it is clear that CCP will not fix anything - they simply do not care for FW.

The huola campaign was lost when gals lead and defended huola - without them gals huola would have fell in the end of the first week. Them gals even equipped the minnies with ships - the minnie only had farming ships in huola.


I got some 9 bil only from some stuff some ppl quitting gave me, Crosi. That was only small change.

What do you think do ppl in FW earn in ISK - when they fly dual box high grade slaves in frigs and dessies?

Your Huola observation is a good example, I was on for that period more than the average, forgive me if I'm wrong but I remember you being in local for a handful of hours towards the last couple of days. Burn Huola was a two week affair to begin with. My timezone (+/- 2/3 hours of DT) was the period where Min/Gal was the most outnumbered, have a look at my killboard, one evening I lost 15 ships in two hours. So you have to understand when a lot of people read your anecdotal viewpoint, blown out to encompass a two week OP, they simply sit there in stunned silence. I will agree however, Amarr suffered horribly from the 'outnumbered so dock' schtick and in my opinion was the number one reason they lost. Again, http://evf-eve.com/services/brcat/ allows a more holistic picture (including a timeline.)

Another example is your fascination with all VP being equal. So what if someone caps 100 plexes? 100 plexes in Kinakka or 100 plexes in Martoh? Does total VP count offer a more illuminating picture on this or don't you care? As others have said, offensive plexing alts (that don't even exist in the most recent iteration) did not take Kinakka, Okkamon, Asakai, Heyd etc. and defensive plexing alts did not keep Sarenemi, Mantenault, Alamel and Raihbaka under control in the backwaters against Calmill PvP entities.

But of course without seeing the intel about who is doing what where, and how we responded, how could you know? You must admit the arrogance is slightly breathtaking that you think one metric will give you a brilliant understanding of anything.

You decry FW as being null sec lite and in the same post complain that some random out in the backwater is able to farm unless you put in effort to stop him.

If you don't live in a system, or actively patrol it then why shouldn't some dude profit off the area? Why would you prefer to effectively increase force projection in FW by allowing one corp to hold sway over entire regions with for instance timer rollbacks?

Right now the corp I am in 'controls' about 6-7 systems in our area, our activity level is high enough that bot runners and afk plexers long since stopped sending their ships here, a good 90% of the people in plexes in our area lead to PVP. How is this not what we want? Do I have a right to complain that 12 jumps away some dude is making billions of isk, how do I own that area if we're not there long enough to deter him?

You need to stop looking in from the outside, and actually get to a position where you can see how it works in a functioning militia, Gallente get it, we have major home systems spread around the WZ, leaving few areas out of reship distance or control range, but you don't even factor something as basic as where pvpers live in you analysis of how a WZ is controlled or falls. The only thing you consistently prove to people involved in FW is how far removed you really are from the actual game, less spreadsheets and more playing.

Because your fc would look in a plex and see 50 people there and see that you only have 10 in fleet. Regardless of whether your fc would suicide your fleet you would lose those systems one after another.

Much of what you gallente spew is magic talk.

Ya, fighting against superior numbers never works. That's why TEST conquered Eha then went on to successfully sweep the warzone while they were in the State Protectorate.

TEST would have never been able to do what they did if they didn't have the entire Caldari militia on their side as well.

It was a bit embarrassing living out of Aeschee for all those months, but you know what we did? We ran Sisters of Eve missions until the Caldari left Eha out of boredom. Then our alts plexed it up and we moved back.

You do know who you are talking to right? Those guys held the line against one of the games largest alliances for months.

But yeah drink the gallente koolaid and you will get the idea that test entered some home syste with 2000 players and 4 gallente fought them off in atrons. Whatever revision history you want.

Scoreboard: Gallente 2, Cearain 0.

I admit I can not beat the entire gallente militia alone but the way some of them blob I think many would consider it a good fight.

Don't be so mad. At least you didn't take any days off work to try to stop us this time.

Yeah this gallente campaign was not likely to be much more exciting than huola so I didn't bother taking off work - or even logging in. I think I called that right. But you can still count it as a win against me if it makes you feel better about yourself.

Plexing alts are the major power in CCP FW.



But lets us face the facts.

Gals won FW.

gals sux go back to villore and mine

Was someone able to send an unfit derptron at some point of the day to deplexe freely in a system that Calmill needed to survive? Almost certainly... and?? Again if there is not enough Calmill resistance to push out an unfit atron..

Your Huola analysis is consistently bewildering, .. The vast majority of galmill plex doctrines are designed around the singular purpose of fighting outnumbered and being able to treat the campaign as a game of inches when we have to

. Derptrons are designed to cost so little they can be used in an attrition format, the long range kestrels are designed to give 5-6 people a chance in novices against 20-30 man gangs, breacher coraxes are again, designed to pack the most punch for tank/isk and swing the casualty rates. These are fits that have been used as intended since the closing days of Evoke, let alone TEST.

For me to believe what you seem to think happened in Huola, would require me to assume that Galmill all of a sudden stopped fighting in the manner that we always do and that our logistics demand. When you are also the guy selling derptrons, periodically logging into UStz, and being heavily involved in AU/early EU, your opinion becomes even harder to believe because I was actually there.

Quips like "if they have 30 and u have 10 no one warps in" reveal your lack of understanding of the deeper strategies at play. GǪOne has to only look at the fits and doctrines Amarr use (in comparison to us) to realize they were never structured to fight that way, you kill two derptrons and we kill your 9mill inquisitor, ad infinitum. Your inability to fight for a minute here or there or inflict losses during 'bad' times for you stood in stark contrast to our ability to slow you and still inflict losses even when we had four people in fleet.

As to the TEST goals, its a sandbox so we can't deny them a victory if they wish to define it as reaching T4, tbh though under the system as was then, that wouldn't be much of a goal as it would be fairly inevitable given their size. GǪ. You may say we moved the goalposts...

But the assertion that TEST didnt want to take Eha or continue crushing galmill home systems from there is patently ludicrous to anyone with passing familiarity of the conflict. Not only did they say as much in their first leaked meetings, but I was there for month after month of the sperging in local about exactly what their intentions were.

Perhaps others such as your esteemed Amarr could have also held them off, but since we've beat both you and them, forgive us for not really caring either way.

P.S The kool-aid references would work better if minnies/gals lost Huola, if the georgetown residents had actually ascended to heaven then we would have been the idiots. ..

Test proved that you don't need to take home systems to hit tier 4.

You guys keep talking about how important home systems are but the mechanics don't actually say that. Sure it causes some disruption. But really by now people know how to use black frog. It's not that big of a deal.

You're playing a different game, Cerain. You know nothing about the world our militia inhabits. Trying to tell us we're wrong while demonstrating a shocking lack of understanding of the realities of our faction and our warzone is why we continue to marginalize your arguments.

I understand the game.

Then how do you explain almost everything you have ever posted?

Non of your impressions of FW are even close to the game i play. Your lack of interest in how people who actually play the game see it, is as always, astonishing.

Were you astonished when XG admitted his alt captured 100 plexes in 2 weeks?

I wasn't surprised at all.

You might be astonished how many fights xg's alts generated him.

Oh yeah here we go with the spin. Really all these d-plexing alts don't really effect occupancy, they are actually there to get fights. Right right. There are much better ways to use an alt to get fights than sitting him in a plex orbitting a button 20 hours a week. We both know that.

Oh and by the way XG himself isn't even showing as getting 780 vp for the week.

Those are the goals set up by ccp.

Cear - the gals won - it is true that CCP made them OP and did even actiivly help them - but the other side is the gal mil did better than any other milita.

This is a fact.

As I said before, I do not blame my fellow players in EVE - and I still love the game - the problem is simply bad game design.

I have great respect for them gals - they show commitment and fight. What more can you wish of an opposing milita?

You are measured by you foes, after all.

Huola campaign is over - we set it up to burn stuff and had good fun doing so.

The future is what matters.

hunch based on what I saw anecdotally

I don't know but suspect

We are talking about occupancy not kills. Kills at best indirectly effects occupancy vp always directly effects it.

You might be astonished how many fights xg's alts generated him.

Cal mil is extinct and only farmers remain.

I am not trying to insult you.

Fleets of kestrels and the like - that is not the FW I was used to play. We used to fly BS/BC and had cap fights in cal mil. Those were great times. Fleets were too full so we had to make second fleets. Same before in amarr mil - those were the biggest cap fights I saw so far.


That is all gone now - CCP removed it to make FW nothing than a farm zone.


There will always be some fighting between farming - that is for sure - but the age of FW is over.

Actually, none - but because it wasn't needed. The Caldari weren't really pushing the backwater systems hard enough. If the counter attack would have been sustained then we would have used alts as "Canaries (in a coal mine)" in that if a WT fleet came by we would then get a fleet up to go meet them. We did this one night and it worked out really well. BTW, this counter plexing technique was learned from PERVS a long time ago.

But, again, it wasn't needed. Caldari were finally defeated in Asakai and the rest turned out to be the cleanup effort that all winning sides need to do to finish off their victory. (Of course this is 20/20 hindsight now. At the time we still expected heavier resistance in Heydieles, and perhaps an Amarrian intervention in Ladistier. But.... nothing....)

Seems the way we play generates a lot more PVP than whatever you are doing, and yes, I have plexing alts.

All this moaning about defensive plex alts is a bit lame IMO.

It's like complaining PL are only successful because they have so many cyno alts.

My point: there is a direct correlation between much pvp you get versus how much the other side thinks they can win.

There is no war in FW.

CCP is right - there can only be warfare in EVE if it is player driven.

So all the changes CCP took are measured in only one direction - constant warfare amongst them players.

Whining about lack of BC/BS fights

As I was in cal mil the biggest part of cal mil simply refused to plex - it was useless to explain the mechanic to them.

They only came to the mili to fight.

That was stupid in an occupancy point of view - but pertinent in a gamers point of view.

The gamer lost in the long run, of course. The only thing that stayed was the farmer.

The gamer lost in the long run, of course. The only thing that stayed was the farmer.

Your honesty is appreciated. And I have used plexing alts to help get fights but I have found that to the extent I wanted to really use them to find fights they actually finished very few plexes.



I am not doing anything to get pvp now. So yeah your likely doing more. My favorite pvp is/was in and around plexes. When I was after pvp I would go to busy systems open a plex and see if anyone would come. If not I would leave. Rarely would I bother finishing the plex. If I saw plexes open I would dscan to see if someone was running them and warp in on them - usually in a t1 frig but some other stuff as well. They would usually bail and I would rarely want to stay to finish the plex. (if the system was busy enough and the timer had been run down I might stick it out a bit) If they fought and I won I would rarely stay to finish the plex. From a pvp perspective my time was always better spent moving on to the next system instead of sitting there orbitting the button hoping someone will notice me. But of course 99% of the enemies who would fight me, never even knew I was there so why sit there? Sure someone might roll in but I found I got more fights by leaving the plex than staying.

My point: there is a trade off of how much pvp you get versus how much occupancy you gain. I think reducing that trade off as much as possible would be good.

I am not at all surprised you or other Galllente have plexing alts. I have seen them around the warzone and since the gallente alts are often dplexing relatively low contested systems I know they aren't farmers from people unconnected with faction war. I think I am different from most people because I care more about the effect alt plexers have on occupancy than the isk they get or don't get. If gallente didn't have alt plexers they would be lucky to be at tier 2.

Will it make you feel better to know that Andre and Andrea are my plexing alts and they have 100M and 40M skill points respectively? Do you still consider them plexing alts?

Fair point.

Thats why I use the term "rabbit plexer." Because rabbit plexers are set up to run from pvp combat. They might be mains they might be alts. They might be in it for isk and thus a farmer or they might be in it just for occupancy and therefore not really a farmer. I guess I really don't care so much, if they are alts.

I just don't think players who always run away from fights should be as effective as they currently are in the occupancy war. Most rabbit plexers are indeed alts. But sure if the alts stay and fight thats fine with me.

My bad - I was in cal mil 2 years ago - I should have wrote that.

Believe me - we tried to explain why plexing is important - we did a lot.

Xgal,

we all know that.

Veskrashen



We both agree simple math shows that you don't need home systems to take tier 4.

Those are the goals set up by ccp. The rest like holding a home system are personal goals that anyone can strive for but there is no real mechanic incentive.

And yes some are in enemy high sec space but again there is generally no problem bringing plexing ships one or 2 jumps in.

So from the perspective of pure occupancy gaining there are multiple places that anyone can base and have better access to these multiple border systems than your home systems would provide. Then its just a matter of grinding plex after plex after plex, for those with the will to do that. From there putting plexing ships in a few stations as you work in is not a big deal. Again if you are interested in plexing.

Well ccp boosted defensive alt plexing and that HAPPENED (???) to help the gallente defensive plexing alt army and stunted (why??) the caldari farmers. It wasn't an intentional boost to gallente by ccp - so no I'm not tinfoil hatting, and to be clear, I don't think ccp ever intentionally tried to help a particular miltia. But this change HAPPENED (???) to be good for the gallente defensive alt army and bad for the caldari alt army (why???)

Of course we keep deplexing alts on hand - that way we ensure our home systems and those being farmed in the backwaters don't get out of control.

What you are complaining about is players, not game mechanics.

If people want to plex in pve fits and run away from fights there is nothing you or i can do to stop them - apart from forcing them to stay out of the plexes by having a presence there or getting better at killing them..

CCP could kill FW and remove LP from plexing, then station lockouts would be the only incentive to fight occupancy. No more farmers. All systems would be completely ignored apart from a handful of well placed station systems..

But i would rather take simple steps to curtail farmers, like dplexing alts, than drastic measures which make FW a less viable place to play for both new and old players. For me, any mechanic that puts ships in space has its fundamentals in order.

You obviously have some drastic tunnel vision that prevents you from seeing a bigger picture, i know pointing this out will not help. I dont even know if you care about the bigger picture, or if you have just become so focused on debating minutia for its own sake.

Sorry for disturbing you, ill let you get back to fixating on non/minor problems.

Nothting of substance

I'm being trolled right? Are you jumping your bash fleet in from hi-sec/non-fw lowsec and travelling 10 jumps to flip a system? Are you actually suggesting that Calmill position themselves around the edges of the map in isolated numbers and push in against our internal lines of defence? Do you know how far it is from Yvangier to Karjataimon? From Mara to Mantenault? Cearain, this is getting stupid and again your ignorance of both the important subtleties in FW and general strategic good sense is showing.

No, you missed the point, i and most of the people i fly with are playing hard and having fun (with a few notable exceptions).

We are doing this with the same mechanics as everyone else.

I think its time you look within.

Yet very few from amarr or caldari even cared enough to get some guys together and try to start plexing some other systems down to at least keep you jumping around.

Over the past months many caldari casuals re-enlisted as gal because there was no incentive to stay t1 and out numbered. It didn't take long for people to realize there was no reason to fight against a zerg of rabbit plexers so might as well reap the rewards of t4 and the uncontested life. So in a way, CalMil beat Calmil.

We welcome the fact that many separatists have decided to rejoin the Federation. Amnesty will given to all that join the Federation and help our cause.

i am about to be FORCED into joining calmil just so i dont feel like a piece of **** for taking the easy rode and re-joining the winning side.

Over the past months many caldari casuals re-enlisted as gal because there was no incentive to stay t1 and out numbered. It didn't take long for people to realize there was no reason to fight against a zerg of rabbit plexers so might as well reap the rewards of t4 and the uncontested life. So in a way, CalMil beat Calmil.

Just to give an example, GalMil were still forming fleets bigger than my active alliance during burn huola where alot/most of galmil were. I remember a few specific instances where I felt like there was a zerg hatchery nearby because they could escillate their numbers out of nowhere while still maintaining a huge presence in a different warzone. zerg gonna zerg.

we are of course glad to have bohica with us, but maybe if you had welcomed them when they tried to join you, you wouldnt b docking in high sec right now.

We were docking in highsec regularly when we had systems.

well that explains why cal mil became irrelevant, doesn't it

I guess if you fantasize that your self worth is proportional to how many systems you hold.

Conan said what's best in life is "to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and to hear the lamentation of their women". So yes, it's about how many systems. All of them to be more precise.

Now fast forward to a sweep and occupation of the system and now CalMil is essentially being taunted with the same occupancy bravado TEST would use, by the same folks that argued so passionately that such metrics were meaningless. Is this to try to provoke a response to get more fights which have no doubt dried up? Or is it just hypocrisy?

Preface out of the way, and really not trying to take sides, but I'd like to point out there were numerous back and forth arguments when TEST joined CalMil a few months back. Test would wag their e-peens around, crowing about how they where winning the occupancy war, to which GalMil, some of the same in this very thread, said that occupancy and sov was irrelevant in FW, it was all about the kills and PvP.

Now fast forward to a sweep and occupation of the system and now CalMil is essentially being taunted with the same occupancy bravado TEST would use, by the same folks that argued so passionately that such metrics were meaningless. Is this to try to provoke a response to get more fights which have no doubt dried up? Or is it just hypocrisy?

I fully believe that if you can't defend or fight for something in this game, you don't "deserve" to have it. If you can't be bothered to mount a counter offensive or defensive action you deserve to lose. However my one major gripe with FW is there is no motivation for sticking it out with a militia when things go bad outside of hubris. And yes, while EvE is this sandbox of infinite possibilities and poo flinging surface area, it is also a game. And a game usually needs at least some basic balancing mechanics. I never understood why time in a militia is not rewarded. It seems like you get rewarded for running missions after folks do the heavy lifting just fine.

You get rewarded for jumping on the bandwagon just fine. But actually sitting in that foxhole getting shelled for months when you can just put on the uniform is not. In fact, it is actually more pragmatic to do so outside of ego or pride. It would be nice if there was some "loyalty" mechanic to go with these loyalty points to offset sitting in T1 for a while based on your time actually fighting for a militia. And not just calendar time, I mean time spent fighting(even if you lose), plexing, missioning; some multiplier that increases as you do these things over time and then gradually over days resets when you stop.

. . . When the wolves eat all the sheep, what happens?

I guess if you fantasize that your self worth is proportional to how many systems you hold.

You mistake "care" for "didn't think they could win". For example, the Caldari cared enough to push fights to 1-2k kills/day in several systems before they finally gave up (after they convinced themselves that they couldn't win). If you can name another mechanic in this game that have lead to more fights in this game than the FW mechanic, then please do so. Until then, don't you think your time is better spent whining about all the other mechanics in this game that don't generate anywhere near the number of fights that the FW mechanic does?

We welcome the fact that many separatists have decided to rejoin the Federation. Amnesty will given to all that join the Federation and help our cause.

[quote=Lupe Meza]We held out against a huge zerg of plexing alts for months. Our current population advantage is slight in comparison, Samwise you whiner. This sweep of the warzone was not the accomplishment of a zerg of farmers as you put it. Farmers do not contest home systems and bust hubs. They had a part to play but were nowhere near enough alone to accomplish the goal. And our offensive "plexing alts" have had to have some teeth to take uninhabited systems this go round. Then we successfully mounted pvp sieges of the Calmil home systems.

Yes Calmil people have posted in these very threads of how they didn't deserve to keep their space. They didn't fight smart, and they had a lack of endurance. That is actually a good thing. First you have to realize and admit what what wrong before you can fix it. .

I think a lot of newer GalMil want to feel like they accomplished something far greater than what actually happened. You cannot use logic friend or even facts for that matter. Everyone spins everything, welcome to EvE.

Running an offensive for two weeks nonstop in three different areas of operation is quite a feat. All the players on the Gallente side know how difficult it really was, even if the final two systems were pretty much a cakewalk.

We basically did Huola, but 1) it was over several systems and not just one, 2) we actually won, and 3) it was nonstop. The Amarr Huola campaign lasted 2-3 days each week before they had to take time off the rest of the week.

Historically fighting a war with 2 fronts is suicide. I think this statement shows more of weak the Caldari State is atm than how much work it took from the Federation to win.

I just need to put this disclaimer. I love GalMil and specially XG. I think I've had you on +10 standings since the 2nd day I was in FDU. You, Deen, as well as the old school QCATS/JUSTK members, I respect you all a lot so don't confuse my posts with hating. It is no secret, GalMil is a fuckin powerhouse atm.

I've actually never enlisted CalMil on my main because honestly I hate Caldari from an RP perspective and more importantly I love Gal ships (7 mil sp in drones yall.) I am considering it tho, I hate how lopsided the warzone is. If I must I will betray my beliefs just to fight for the weaker side.