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Jessica McDaniel
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Posted - 2006.07.25 10:54:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Jessica McDaniel on 25/07/2006 10:55:22
i have studied astro-physics and graviton pulsars for years now and just want to get a general concensus about black holes. What do most of you belive? is it just a bathroom sink that drains things or is it a plethra of anti-photonic radiation with a dash of gravimetric shearing? All thought on this matter would be appreciated.
Edited: spelling and slight title adjustment
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Sevarus James
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.25 10:56:00 -
[2]
All thoughts, eh? My thought is this is gonna get locked for being silly, or moved to out of pod for not having anything to do whatsoever with EVE.
My thought.
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Updated Linux Desktop+EVE+EVE-TV |
Batleth Bladed
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Posted - 2006.07.25 10:59:00 -
[3]
well, since the devblogs have asked for ideas for new objects and inter-actable areas i was pondering the idea of wormholes/blackholes as an PVE piece to the game having random wormholes open within random systems and dumping players in far away regions. just wanted to see how detailed i can get before "going over peoples heads"
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Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.07.25 11:01:00 -
[4]
Y'know if we hadn't had some idiot call them black HOLES in the first place, we'd never have had all this redundant argument. They're not holes; just solid objects with an escape velocity higher than c.
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"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Avon
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 11:03:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Jessica McDaniel
Edited by: Jessica McDaniel on 25/07/2006 10:55:22
i have studied astro-physics and graviton pulsars for years now and just want to get a general concensus about black holes. What do most of you belive? is it just a bathroom sink that drains things or is it a plethra of anti-photonic radiation with a dash of gravimetric shearing? All thought on this matter would be appreciated.
Edited: spelling and slight title adjustment
Aw come on. Astrophysics is easy, it isn't exactly rocket science.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Sevarus James
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.25 11:04:00 -
[6]
Avon's been watching stargate sg1 samantha carter commercial methinks. 
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Updated Linux Desktop+EVE+EVE-TV |
Tobias Sjodin
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 11:05:00 -
[7]
I think the future will reveal that most "myths" about black holes were really just wild ideas with little to no basis in reality.
I think it's just a phenomena that really isn't anything really spectacular, beyond the fact that we know little of them at the moment, and as with anything we know little about, the hypothesises become more wild, the bigger the imagination of the beholder.
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Batleth Bladed
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Posted - 2006.07.25 11:06:00 -
[8]
lol, true since a black "object" hole :) does seem to have an structural make up like a squash almost with a steep arc
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Batleth Bladed
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Posted - 2006.07.25 11:10:00 -
[9]
Tobias, i understand where you are coming from, but the masses of people ar stuck in their dumb-struck ways of learning, kids see a black hole on t.v. they think it's like flushing a toilet and omg they are bad or whatever, but the reality is that yes they are a very facinating concept of nature/space. i only wish that i could educate the people i meet with the knowledge of an open-mind
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Del ReyII
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 11:16:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
I think the future will reveal that most "myths" about black holes were really just wild ideas with little to no basis in reality.
I think it's just a phenomena that really isn't anything really spectacular, beyond the fact that we know little of them at the moment, and as with anything we know little about, the hypothesises become more wild, the bigger the imagination of the beholder.
You've got a point, but it cuts much deeper than that. Wormhole is the name given to an oddity that shows up in calculations and in observations in our universe. There are many theories, the fantastical M-Theory which, while god like in provability, is quite interesting with 11 dimensions, or EGR where wormholes are zero points in space with extreme gravity which affect the fabric of space-time.
The mind boggles
Del
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Batleth Bladed
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Posted - 2006.07.25 11:28:00 -
[11]
unlike most "THEORIES" the science and physics behind the absolution and existance of black holes has sustance, we can actually see the prysmic waves that one emitts besides that we can atcually map the face and size of such an entity our current tech doesn't allow us to travel to one of these far distant objects, thank god they are not any closer than tey currently are, we also ahve evidence that suggest that they are moving almsot to describe like a self propelled vacum :) while "sucking" they are actually pulling on space"giving space a materialistic property" and there for ingesting space and traveling in the path of least objection
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Drizit
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.25 11:29:00 -
[12]
The normal explanation is that a black hole is a star that has imploded, the resulting mass has a gravitational force so great that the escape velocity to get away is greater than light speed. Beyond that, we know absolutely nothing about them since we are unable to find anything that has managed to escape from one to examine.
Theories include singularities, wormholes and gateways to other dimensions and many more whacky ideas.
The truth is: Until we manage to find a FTL drive, we will never be able to go inside one to find out the truth. Even if we did have a FTL drive, getting out would be a major problem since the debris being sucked in would impact the ship at a combined speed of twice the speed of light thereby vapourising it. Going in would be a suicide mission so we would still never find out since, if light can't escape, sound will have no chance and therefore we would have no communication with the ship inside.
Ergo, black holes will remain a mystery forever.
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Delphi Denon
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Posted - 2006.07.25 11:30:00 -
[13]
After completing my BSc in Physics and Space Technology, and starting my MPhys (This next year) my opinion on black holes is that they are not "holes" per se, they are a spherical object consisting of dark matter, with what we could class as having an infinte mass (actually finite, but I dont think that would make too much of a difference) due to the huge amount of mass involved this would warp space-time, in the same way that planets do, following the Relativistic effect, and would create an event horizon - so to an observer it would look like the pictures and images of black holes that artists have concieved.
The fact that the object is so massive would mean that using the Gravitational equation for big G - it would work out as a very large number which would explain the "pull" of such an object - leading to the "sink hole" effect.
- I'd like to appologise for the verbal diorhea - Im not too good at getting thoughts down as I type.
Delphi Denon
P.S. First Post :)
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Splagada
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.25 11:32:00 -
[14]
you dont need big physics to prove black hole exist
accept that speed of light being the absolute speed limit for anything, and newton physics, and you get black holes
so massive the extraction speed goes beyond c, so nothing can get away when passing the "horizon"
= a black hole
what's inside the horizon is not science fiction at all. it's puree!
the only point beyond physics is the exact center of the black hole.
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Looking for technetium delivery contracts |
prsr
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 11:37:00 -
[15]
Edited by: prsr on 25/07/2006 11:40:51
Actually black holes are quite well defined nowadays. At least a lot better since John Wheeler coined the term to dismiss the fancy whipper-snappers that were searching for theories that fit the sparse observations there were.
The idea that a black hole will "eat" anything in its path is only partly true. A small black hole that formed after a star dies isn't much of a threat since space is really really big and a black hole can be very very tiny compared to it, so it would have to be on a collision course or pass really closely to affect our solar system in any big way.
Supermassive black holes that sit in the middle of large spiral galaxies are not much of a threat either. They don't move around, it's the galaxies that move around them mostly at a safe distance. Even the accretion disc of extremely hot plasma revolving at relativisitc speeds around the event-horizon of a black hole doesn't provide the black hole with much matter. Stuff doesn't spiral into black holes, it usually just revolves around it at extreme speeds. There are observations that show that in a system with a black hole it is the shockwaves that travel through the accretion disc of material around a black hole that actually makes matter fall in.
The pic was supposed to show the waves going through the accretion disc but I think the only way they have been observed is by radio-astronomy which doesn't get you the spiffy pictures that normal telescopes can. So you'll have to settle with your imagination or build a few decent space-telescopes that can get us some close-ups.
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.sig apathy ftw |
Junior Dweight
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Posted - 2006.07.25 11:42:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Junior Dweight on 25/07/2006 11:43:10
too many wanna-be astrophysicists and too many wanna-be astrophysicist critics in here imo
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Indomitus Rex
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Posted - 2006.07.25 11:43:00 -
[17]
Two years ago as a soph in college I finised up my natty science requirements by taking astronomy. The old guy that taught the class actually was the first dude to discover the existence of super massive black holes at the center of galaxies, etc. Pretty cool I thought. And I got an A in the class.
Deutschland. |
Tobias Sjodin
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.25 11:51:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Del ReyII
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
I think the future will reveal that most "myths" about black holes were really just wild ideas with little to no basis in reality.
I think it's just a phenomena that really isn't anything really spectacular, beyond the fact that we know little of them at the moment, and as with anything we know little about, the hypothesises become more wild, the bigger the imagination of the beholder.
You've got a point, but it cuts much deeper than that. Wormhole is the name given to an oddity that shows up in calculations and in observations in our universe. There are many theories, the fantastical M-Theory which, while god like in provability, is quite interesting with 11 dimensions, or EGR where wormholes are zero points in space with extreme gravity which affect the fabric of space-time.
The mind boggles
Del
If you're referring to the string-theory, that's a bit sketchy; and has very little primary data to support it. It's built up by a series of hypothesises that are sound to the point that we cannot go beyond theory.
The chaos-theory is interesting, but it's a bit ahead of our time, so to speak.
And like I said, these type of phenomena are so beyond what todays scientists can say anything definitive about, that we might as well settle with the fact; that we simply do not know, and have no instruments to gather reliable enough data to work with.
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Batleth Bladed
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Posted - 2006.07.25 12:03:00 -
[19]
interesting argument
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Aramendel
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Posted - 2006.07.25 12:08:00 -
[20]
As a sidenote, have any "white holes" been obsorved so far or are those only a theory construct?
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Dekiri
ISS Navy Task Force
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.07.25 12:14:00 -
[21]
I am for some reason doubting the "not really measurable" parts of the modern science a lot. A black hole for me will stay something that has an insanely strong gravity power and thats it. I don't think we can go any further since the rest really is theory and not measurable enough to give us a real picture.
What happens if you fly into a black hole? It is probably the same thing that happens when you die.... WE DO NOT KNOW... and i think we will not for a while.
Btw i am NEVER speaking or trolling on behalf of the ISSN!
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prsr
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 12:20:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Dekiri
I am for some reason doubting the "not really measurable" parts of the modern science a lot.
If it's not really measurable it's probably not really science.
Originally by: Dekiri
What happens if you fly into a black hole? It is probably the same thing that happens when you die.... WE DO NOT KNOW... and i think we will not for a while.
Actually we do know, you get stretched up like spaghetti and if people setup a few telescopes to watch at a distance they'll have an exhibition showing death by blackhole live for a few hundred years.
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.sig apathy ftw |
Junior Dweight
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Posted - 2006.07.25 12:50:00 -
[23]
Originally by: prsr
Actually we do know
actually we don't know. we just have theories. educated guesses.
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Eilene Fernite
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Posted - 2006.07.25 13:03:00 -
[24]
Wasn't it so that spacetime near a black hole is so extremely curved that we just don't have any physics theories to describe what goes on at that point?
Or am I confused and was that the problem with describing the first few moments after the big bang?
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Benco97
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 13:17:00 -
[25]
My opinion on this is that they are simply objects with extremely ( <- not really a powerful enough word) high personal gravity, I don't think they take you anywhere, I think they crush you very hard and you die. Personally I will not be jumping in one any time soon ;p
Anyway, I HOPE i'm wrong, I want them to be some fantastical thingy but.. well... i don't think anything is fantastic.
Snug Radio - Fart like a Pirate |
Jane Vladmir
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 13:34:00 -
[26]
Originally by: prsr
stuff+pic
One thing's for certain; that black hole on your picture is being webified.
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Drizit
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.25 13:52:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Jane Vladmir
Originally by: prsr
stuff+pic
One thing's for certain; that black hole on your picture is being webified.
A webbed pod exploding. Now we know where he got the pic from
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prsr
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.25 14:13:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Junior Dweight
Originally by: prsr
Actually we do know
actually we don't know. we just have theories. educated guesses.
A scientific theory is not an educated guess. But we all know that, it's just people that don't like a specific theory for non-scientific reasons that come up with this argument.
When astronomers see a star go supernova thats data, when they see remnants of a star disappear in a black hole there's data, when supermassive blackholes create lobes of superheated matter lightyears above their poles thats data. When superheated plasma revolves around event horizons and emit gobs of radiation thats data. Don't sit there saying we don't know 'cause we friggin' bloody well do know a lot of what goes on and certainly what will happen when you try to fly into one.
[/rant]
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.sig apathy ftw |
Soln
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Posted - 2006.07.25 14:33:00 -
[29]
we need Astrophysics 4 or 5 for some of the planned Jove exploration quests right?
My Playerep Profile
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Ann Mari
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.25 14:34:00 -
[30]
I'm a mechanical design engineer and I didn't do great at physics in varsity, but here goes...
From what I've read black holes arn't holes at all. They're actually super compressed matter. Like a planet that imploded on itself. And it started drawing more and more matter to it. And the more matter it collects the stronger it's gravitational pull becomes and the denser it becomes.
Eventually it's so dense, and it's gravity so strong that not even light can escape from it. So all the other light sources' light doesn't get reflected by it, it simply eats all the light.
How's that? 
///End
"There can be no justice, if rules are absolute"
"The enemy of my enemy, is my friend"
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