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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Digiblast Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.25 16:25:00 - [31] Originally by: superscarface I don't really see anything wrong with the current system. Personally, I kinda like knowing when fleets are moving around. Thats my point we life on the damn local chat info's and I think it is sad since we have all the ships types to tell you what the local tells us. That will just get us more to gather and work better as a group. Originally by: superscarface Plus if I want to gank some npcer, I just get someone to scout in covert ops. Well for some of us that aint so easy like you say. The miner sees that the scouts has entered local chat, a paranoied guy like me whould go refitt and try to get a fight or gank the gankers. Originally by: superscarface Really, I think the last thing eve needs is to give older players and people with several accounts more advantage. Who says it will give them more advantage. Many of them will be stuck in the old mode and learn this later then the new guys. So more Ganks on the oldys Originally by: Mephysto I'm merely clarifying the current status of local chat, the players in space map features, and providing information on the current plans for them. And I thank you for that, it's alwayes nice to get awnser from the Dev on things like this. Originally by: Mephysto I fail to see how I am preventing you from having a discussion about them. I'm not the greatest when it comes to write something but I'm doing my best. It was not my meaning to say you tryed to stop us. I will continue to bumb this threat until u either change the local chat and map or I get banned from the forums
Blabba Blubba	Posted - 2006.07.25 16:31:00 - [32] You are only looking at it from one point of view. Sure the miner wouldn't see the gank squad that just jumped in. But how would the gank squad know he was there without local? This basically means that if local is removed we need stronger scanners that can see over most of a system.
Digiblast Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.25 16:40:00 - [33] Originally by: Blabba Blubba You are only looking at it from one point of view. Sure the miner wouldn't see the gank squad that just jumped in. But how would the gank squad know he was there without local? This basically means that if local is removed we need stronger scanners that can see over most of a system. The miner can have cov op's at every gate and really secure the system. The Attacker whould also need Scanner to find the miners or warp to all belts. This whould also be a gain for a lone miner, mining alone and the attacker doesnt know so he might just move along. But surely this whould spice up the 0.0 space in eve. And btw there is a probe that scan's the whole system.
Aceo Cobbler	Posted - 2006.07.25 16:56:00 - [34] That is a good point but to make every miner/1 person in a group to use up 220tf of CPU when it is already hard to fit some ships is just making it impossible to find targets.
Femaref Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.25 17:06:00 - [35] Jup. This gives you a result of 96 au from the target. to Scan down to the target, you need at least 10-15 scans (if I remember corect) thats about 30-45 Minutes just working to find the target. Imagine, you are at the 3 au probes, just about to scan the last time. And the target warps away at 15 secs left. First time, ok. Second maybe. But third and so on? It Would Annoy you. Really. That would mean less ganks for you in more time. You like that?
change it	Posted - 2006.07.25 17:06:00 - [36] Edited by: change it on 25/07/2006 17:06:52 Edited by: change it on 25/07/2006 17:06:41 xxx << ******* alt.
Digiblast Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.25 17:09:00 - [37] Originally by: Aceo Cobbler That is a good point but to make every miner/1 person in a group to use up 220tf of CPU when it is already hard to fit some ships is just making it impossible to find targets. what are you trying to say? 220tf of cpu to fitt what? Impossyble to find targets? It will be the same to find targets as before but just without the local helping u.
Digiblast Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.25 17:18:00 - [38] Originally by: Femaref Jup. This gives you a result of 96 au from the target. to Scan down to the target, you need at least 10-15 scans (if I remember corect) thats about 30-45 Minutes just working to find the target. Imagine, you are at the 3 au probes, just about to scan the last time. And the target warps away at 15 secs left. First time, ok. Second maybe. But third and so on? It Would Annoy you. Really. That would mean less ganks for you in more time. You like that? Ok I'm goign to teach you guys something. It seems you don't know this. Let's say there is a mining gourp in a system. With 5 planets. You enter the system with Cov op and start useing the normal Scanner not the Scan probes. You point at 1 planet at the time and scan with 5% with the scanner. You soon find out that they are near planet 3, you warp to it and notice there are 15 belts there. You Start scanning around the planet and find them at one Belt or if that is 2 hard you could use 3x 3 au probes at that planet but that whould give you away and they could scan the probes. But anyway you find them within 2-5 min's Depends on how good you are.
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.07.25 17:50:00 - [39] Originally by: Femaref Jup. This gives you a result of 96 au from the target. to Scan down to the target, you need at least 10-15 scans (if I remember corect) thats about 30-45 Minutes just working to find the target. Imagine, you are at the 3 au probes, just about to scan the last time. And the target warps away at 15 secs left. First time, ok. Second maybe. But third and so on? It Would Annoy you. Really. That would mean less ganks for you in more time. You like that? Nobody does this though. Anyway, as someone who both flies with and scouts for (in a covops) 0.0 fleets, I honestly do not understand what the problem with local is, and speaking as someone who's been in a covops exclusively for the last week I don't get why everyone (well, some people) seems to think that it's either necessary or desirable to remove cloaked pilots from local.
Maya Rkell Corsets and Carebears	Posted - 2006.07.25 17:56:00 - [40] Originally by: Francesca Dell'Agio On a personal note: NPC stations should all be removed from presence in 0.0 due to their ability to provide a theatre of combat which cannot be conquered. Maybe factional warfare will enable the quest to negate NPC station operations in 0.0 Bah, there's PLENTY of 0.0 without stations. They act differently, yes, but that dosn't mean they're any less valid, 0.0...or pools of players not affiliated with a big alliance. Femaref, this is one reason why the scan system is changing.. (see the dev blogs)
Digiblast Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.25 18:00:00 - [41] Originally by: Joerd Toastius Anyway, as someone who both flies with and scouts for (in a covops) 0.0 fleets, I honestly do not understand what the problem with local is, and speaking as someone who's been in a covops exclusively for the last week I don't get why everyone (well, some people) seems to think that it's either necessary or desirable to remove cloaked pilots from local. We are talking about everybody whould not show on local chat unless they talked in it. But hey it whould be a start if cov op pilots whould not show up in local chat
Francesca Dell'Agio eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.07.25 18:02:00 - [42] The apparent problem with Local it appears is that if you want to go into a system to kill a few people you are visible to those people in the system on entry as all pilots show up in local. The apparent crux of the problem is that this is unfair as it makes it more difficult to sneak in and kill people. That's it really. I'm all for the local system as it is now. Removing people's visibility from local would bring an unprecedented and unbalanced advantage to the attacking side, leaving only visual recognition on gates to spot hostiles about to jump in as a weak counterbalance mechanism for the defenders. It's silly tbh. I can see a system work without local though. If there is balance in risk vs reward for all sides. That means that Local visibility would be off by default, and that both attacker and defender would have means to get notification and recognition of pilots entering system through advanced skills, modules, or sovereignty (system scanning). Trouble with that is that this would upset again the balance between older pilots or multi account pilots versus newer pilots by increasing the skill burden once more. As CCP made clear in this thread earlier, Local and its relevant mechanisms will not change at all in the foreseable future. So that is that. Should they change it, they would have to balance old vs new, risk vs reward, and the whole shebang. Complicated thing really. WTB: In Game Map Setting: Players logged off in system last 24 hours. Guess why ^^
Digiblast Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.25 18:40:00 - [43] Originally by: Francesca Dell'Agio The apparent problem with Local it appears is that if you want to go into a system to kill a few people you are visible to those people in the system on entry as all pilots show up in local. The apparent crux of the problem is that this is unfair as it makes it more difficult to sneak in and kill people. That's it really. I'm all for the local system as it is now. Removing people's visibility from local would bring an unprecedented and unbalanced advantage to the attacking side, leaving only visual recognition on gates to spot hostiles about to jump in as a weak counterbalance mechanism for the defenders. It's silly tbh. I can see a system work without local though. If there is balance in risk vs reward for all sides. That means that Local visibility would be off by default, and that both attacker and defender would have means to get notification and recognition of pilots entering system through advanced skills, modules, or sovereignty (system scanning). Trouble with that is that this would upset again the balance between older pilots or multi account pilots versus newer pilots by increasing the skill burden once more. As CCP made clear in this thread earlier, Local and its relevant mechanisms will not change at all in the foreseable future. So that is that. Should they change it, they would have to balance old vs new, risk vs reward, and the whole shebang. Complicated thing really. Atm it is unbalanced if the local chat is there to aid us. And again u talk like you have no scouts. The Defence team can have scouts everywhere and could even hide half of they fleet in the system so if the attacker jumps in or warp to them the other team warps in and aids the defender.... There are Endless possybilitys to gain the warfare in tis game if there was no local. And this whould make it even harder for fleet commanders to attack enemy pos. That means smaller groups gain in this change as much as the lager groups.
Talion Shar Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.25 20:05:00 - [44] hmm if this change should ever implented with no local... i see the price for probe launcher, 192AU probes and observer probes skyrocket. btw: in this case i would just change one NOS/Tractor beam of my bs with a probe launcher and observer probe. So no need to see ppl in local... i will knew after the scan anyways. and no observer probe / 192AU probes dont need 45minutes to scan the full system. its 45min - 1hour that the probe will stay at the launchpoint and then decay. I suppose you never used a probe launcher/probes by yourself, huh?
Digiblast Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.25 20:21:00 - [45] Originally by: Talion Shar hmm if this change should ever implented with no local... i see the price for probe launcher, 192AU probes and observer probes skyrocket. btw: in this case i would just change one NOS/Tractor beam of my bs with a probe launcher and observer probe. So no need to see ppl in local... i will knew after the scan anyways. and no observer probe / 192AU probes dont need 45minutes to scan the full system. its 45min - 1hour that the probe will stay at the launchpoint and then decay. I suppose you never used a probe launcher/probes by yourself, huh? Local chat whould stil be there but the picture of your chr wont unless u talk. And the ppl that are in local while you wrote something in it whould see that you are in local. And I know how to use scan probes. Trust me on that. But I don't know why you guys have started to talk about Scan probes. That is mainly used to find safespots and supersafes.
Deakin Frost Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.25 20:28:00 - [46] Someone wake me up when people stop whining about local chat.
Gothikia Regeneration Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.07.25 20:35:00 - [47] I find it funny that someone from collective is talking about getting rid of the log in trap and local exploits, haha. But i definetly agree with you 100% on all points. Local chat shouldn't show whos in the system unless that person accually speaks. Regeneration - Homosexuals more than welcome!
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2006.07.25 20:43:00 - [48] Originally by: Deakin Frost Someone wake me up when people stop whining about local chat. someone wake me up when ONE day a single company on this whole planet will make a decent pvp game ... yes ccp are close and they are currently the best but it's simply not enough! Greetings Grim
Talion Shar Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.25 20:47:00 - [49] Originally by: Digiblast But I don't know why you guys have started to talk about Scan probes. That is mainly used to find safespots and supersafes.[/quote] Because of the removing of ppl from local, there will be a rapid usage of scan probes to SEE ppl in system if there are some, because you _wont_ see them in local till they speak. so to get sure you are 1) really solo -> Scan / Scan Probe 2) there are bubbles / gank gangs in system so with your other idea of reducing bms, removing bms ... im very sure that will be a normal procedure and normal ship setup with a probe launcher fitted in.
Maya Rkell Corsets and Carebears	Posted - 2006.07.25 20:54:00 - [50] Originally by: Grim Vandal Originally by: Deakin Frost Someone wake me up when people stop whining about local chat. someone wake me up when ONE day a single company on this whole planet will make a decent pvp game ... yes ccp are close and they are currently the best but it's simply not enough! No, that's Shadowbane. Can I have your stuff? laughs Only local radar in that...
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.07.25 21:46:00 - [51] Originally by: Francesca Dell'Agio The apparent problem with Local it appears is that if you want to go into a system to kill a few people you are visible to those people in the system on entry as all pilots show up in local. The apparent crux of the problem is that this is unfair as it makes it more difficult to sneak in and kill people. That's it really. Well... diddums. Move faster. (And yes, I realise that you agree with me more or less)
PC5 Bermuda Syndrome Black Reign Syndicate	Posted - 2006.07.25 23:40:00 - [52] Edited by: PC5 on 25/07/2006 23:40:22 Originally by: Saucerhead A few things i'd like all posters here to consider: 1. Local is currently working as intented. (...) Its working as DEVS intented but many players are not happy with it. I havent seen so much powerful tool as local chat in any other game. I dont need to do any intel all i have to do is look at local if im in area which i know. ITS NOT GOOD. Thank God its not showing where is enemy excatly or what ship each player is using :)))
Archonon Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 00:05:00 - [53] Originally by: Digiblast Like with the local chat in 0.0, it should not show how many and who are/enter local. It's just wrong and it makes no sense.It's like our ships have this automatic devices that joins an local chat server and we can't switch it of. Like the nerf of map, it will increase the gank and decrease the engagement at decent number. It would be catastrophic for the pvp. Originally by: Scientists At the node points, the rapid oscillation of the gravitational field in opposite directions creates strong shear in the contravariant energy-momentum tensor. Under normal circumstances this stress is dissipated by high-frequency graviton radiation, and does thus not create any noticeable macroscopic phenomenons. But if this stress is confined and forced to build-up in a limited region of space, then the tensor-field will eventually develop a steadily growing high-curvature tentacle like structure in the space-time continuum. More specifically, the tentacle constitutes a self-avoiding 4-manifold that attempts to grow farther and farther from itself Sry m8 but for any advanced civilisation it's very easy to detect a reasonance and gravitationnal wave emission accross the local minkowskian manifold, thus the "jump" can be detected by everyone in the system, it's a physic constraint. _______________________ Exitus Acta Probat
Femaref Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.26 00:14:00 - [54] Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Francesca Dell'Agio On a personal note: NPC stations should all be removed from presence in 0.0 due to their ability to provide a theatre of combat which cannot be conquered. Maybe factional warfare will enable the quest to negate NPC station operations in 0.0 Bah, there's PLENTY of 0.0 without stations. They act differently, yes, but that dosn't mean they're any less valid, 0.0...or pools of players not affiliated with a big alliance. Femaref, this is one reason why the scan system is changing.. (see the dev blogs) Originally by: Talion Shar hmm if this change should ever implented with no local... i see the price for probe launcher, 192AU probes and observer probes skyrocket. btw: in this case i would just change one NOS/Tractor beam of my bs with a probe launcher and observer probe. So no need to see ppl in local... i will knew after the scan anyways. and no observer probe / 192AU probes dont need 45minutes to scan the full system. its 45min - 1hour that the probe will stay at the launchpoint and then decay. I suppose you never used a probe launcher/probes by yourself, huh? Maya: I'm totaly aware that the scanningsystem is changing, and I really look into it. Talion: True. But to scan someone down (so he is near you) you need the 45 min. But just to know if someone is there, it's enough tbh.
Digiblast Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:11:00 - [55] is ccp going to change the current Scanning system?
Digiblast Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.26 16:11:00 - [56] is ccp going to change the current Scanning system?
Trak Cranker	Posted - 2006.07.26 17:22:00 - [57] Originally by: Gothikia But i definetly agree with you 100% on all points. Local chat shouldn't show whos in the system unless that person accually speaks. And then what exactly do you do about a fleet parked at a super safe and their cloaked warp in target? You have NO clue they are there and they can come into you face, with NO possible warning. Any change to this needs to be more balanced than just not showing people in local. But I have a slight impression that balance is not what the OP wants.
Digiblast Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.26 17:37:00 - [58] Originally by: Trak Cranker Originally by: Gothikia But i definetly agree with you 100% on all points. Local chat shouldn't show whos in the system unless that person accually speaks. And then what exactly do you do about a fleet parked at a super safe and their cloaked warp in target? You have NO clue they are there and they can come into you face, with NO possible warning. Any change to this needs to be more balanced than just not showing people in local. But I have a slight impression that balance is not what the OP wants. Atm It is way to ballanced to the other side.(carebear side) We are playing this game in Easy Easy mode and this should only be in empire space. 0.0 should atleast be like the Alliance chat. Showing th numbers in local only to begine with so you guys wont get a heart attack log in after the change.
Marano Port Royal Independent Kontractors Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2006.07.26 18:55:00 - [59] I'm a little torn with the idea of changing local. I don't feel though that It would give the attacker the advantage 100% of the time though if local worked like an Alliance chat. For example what about systems with more than 3 gates you could have a camped fleet on a gate and they may never see a possible target come in to the system because the target may never go to their gate! This could also make Eve a little more boring possibly if we spend all our time just trying to find the enemy never knowing if they are in local until they talk, you might find yourself flying around going "Are there any hostiles in here!! I do think though that local is too powerful and that we don't use tools we have as much as we could be using them because we can see everything thing in local (Characters, standings)right click and it's all there. What if local changed so that you could still see how many there are in local but you cannot see what their names are or get any information unless you get into scanner range of them (14au) and scan their ship, then suddently you can access all the information you normally get on them. Maybe we could also get more pertanant information on our main view instead of having to go to the large map and look up how many ships for example have been killed in the system in the last hour it would give you a heads up to a possible threat before you enter. Just a few thoughts. Thanks.
Digiblast Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.26 20:56:00 - [60] Originally by: Marano For example what about systems with more than 3 gates you could have a camped fleet on a gate and they may never see a possible target come in to the system because the target may never go to their gate! I bet they whould have 3 or more scouts have everything covered. Originally by: Marano This could also make Eve a little more boring possibly if we spend all our time just trying to find the enemy never knowing if they are in local until they talk, you might find yourself flying around going "Are there any hostiles in here!! Possibly, Maybe maybe not. As you say below will stil be able to use the normal 14au scanner. Originally by: Marano What if local changed so that you could still see how many there are in local but you cannot see what their names are or get any information That how the allaince chat is today. Until you start talking in it. Originally by: Marano Unless you get into scanner range of them (14au) and scan their ship, then suddently you can access all the information you normally get on them. There I think you should only get the ship info. Not the Char info and all that also. Originally by: Marano Maybe we could also get more pertanant information on our main view instead of having to go to the large map and look up how many ships for example have been killed in the system in the last hour it would give you a heads up to a possible threat before you enter. Just a few thoughts. Thanks. Sounds intresting but maybe you should make a new Topic about that.

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