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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Digiblast Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.25 11:15:00 - [1] The Topic kinda sayes it all. I whould like to see the game get more advanced/Pro. Like with the local chat in 0.0, it should not show how many and who are/enter local. It's just wrong and it makes no sense.It's like our ships have this automatic devices that joins an local chat server and we can't switch it of. This could be a very good thing for miners if they used few scouts, but then again they like the Local Exploit so they dont need scouts. And About the Eve Map. Remove the damn pilot counter and all that. Have it only in empire space. So who are with me here I mean 3 years ago we died 1-5 times per day. I know that there was a vote about this 1-2 years ago and of course I woted YES to the change, but many Pro players sayed no because they like that Exploit and where 2 afraid to get ganked. Today we have the ships to scout for us. SO how about IT CCP Make Cov op even more usefull and needed as they should be. Atleast in 0.0 space local chat should only show players that want to talk in local. I know that 0.1-0.4 Pirates will hate thins change because they use that exploit. But I sure they will get along with it just fine, they seem to have scouts in systems around. But as I sayed I think Empire should stil be the same with the local chat and eve map. So that wont hurt them. Let's Do this CCP For the 0.0 space FFS It's really needed. This will get rid of Log in traps by 70% probebly
Wolverine PL Gallente	Posted - 2006.07.25 11:28:00 - [2] Originally by: Digiblast The Topic kinda sayes it all. I whould like to see the game get more advanced/Pro. Like with the local chat in 0.0, it should not show how many and who are/enter local. It's just wrong and it makes no sense.It's like our ships have this automatic devices that joins an local chat server and we can't switch it of. This could be a very good thing for miners if they used few scouts, but then again they like the Local Exploit so they dont need scouts. And About the Eve Map. Remove the damn pilot counter and all that. Have it only in empire space. So who are with me here I mean 3 years ago we died 1-5 times per day. I know that there was a vote about this 1-2 years ago and of course I woted YES to the change, but many Pro players sayed no because they like that Exploit and where 2 afraid to get ganked. Today we have the ships to scout for us. SO how about IT CCP Make Cov op even more usefull and needed as they should be. Atleast in 0.0 space local chat should only show players that want to talk in local. I know that 0.1-0.4 Pirates will hate thins change because they use that exploit. But I sure they will get along with it just fine, they seem to have scouts in systems around. But as I sayed I think Empire should stil be the same with the local chat and eve map. So that wont hurt them. Let's Do this CCP For the 0.0 space FFS It's really needed. This will get rid of Log in traps by 70% probebly Yeah, I totaly agree, and not only me. I know lots of ppl who would like to see local chat work like lets say alliance chat.
Francesca Dell'Agio eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.07.25 11:37:00 - [3] omg yet another wannabee ganker "I want to kill without risk" topic. sad. WTB: In Game Map Setting: Players logged off in system last 24 hours. Guess why ^^
Digiblast Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.25 11:46:00 - [4] Originally by: Francesca Dell'Agio omg yet another wannabee ganker "I want to kill without risk" topic. sad. Just say no and reason why... No need for the hero forum smackposting.
Maya Rkell Corsets and Carebears	Posted - 2006.07.25 12:40:00 - [5] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 25/07/2006 12:43:56 dp
Maya Rkell Corsets and Carebears	Posted - 2006.07.25 12:42:00 - [6] Right. Something is only an exploit when it is called so by a dev or a GM. Link or quote such, or it is not an exploit. (further, accusing people of exploiting is serious and I would not make it in your position) Further, "just wrong and makes no sense" does not cur it, ustify with the full gameplay implications, including those for miners, NPC'ers and PvPers with such points as 0.0 chokepoints, scanner, probes and high negative security systems addressed. It's not an exploit, it's not a problem and slashing core systems because griefPK's want to is a decidedly bad idea. Eve is allready quite harsh enough on the average player. And you allready need scouts. You'll reduce login traps because you'll get the same effect without having to login! Woo...oh, wait, that dosn't help. "FFS" this thread is based on a false premise and gives zero reason beyond "I don't like it, give me a pony".
Digiblast Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.25 12:44:00 - [7] Originally by: Maya Rkell Right. Something is only an exploit when it is called so by a dev or a GM. Link or quote such, or it is not an exploit. Further, "just wrong and makes no sense" does not cur it, ustify with the full gameplay implications, including those for miners, NPC'ers and PvPers with such points as 0.0 chokepoints, scanner, probes and high negative security systems addressed. It's not an exploit, it's not a problem and slashing core systems because griefPK's want to is a decidedly bad idea. Eve is allready quite harsh enough on the average player. And you allready need scouts. You'll reduce login traps because you'll get the same effect without having to login! Woo...oh, wait, that dosn't help. "FFS" this thread is based on a false premise and gives zero reason beyond "I don't like it, give me a pony". Zip it noob.. I'm using thouse words to get attention.... and I was hoping to get less attention from ppl like you that only comment about what other ppl write other then really talk about the Idea.
Maya Rkell Corsets and Carebears	Posted - 2006.07.25 12:48:00 - [8] No, you're accusing people of exploiting. Exploiting is a specific, banable offence. And again, "Because" is not sufficient reason to rip core gameplay out and you seem unable to provide more reason than that.
Francesca Dell'Agio eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.07.25 12:50:00 - [9] So, you don't want to hear anything but support for your "suggestion"? :P My reply was not smack, the hint was pretty clear. It is yet another wannabee ganker request for easy kills. Eve is built on a balance of risk versus reward. This redues/removes risk for one side without providing a counter balancing game mechanism. Silly. Want to get rid of logon traps? Look at my sig. Don't use that topic to support something entirely different. WTB: In Game Map Setting: Players logged off in system last 24 hours. Guess why ^^
Digiblast Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.25 12:51:00 - [10] If u think about then then local chat is really a Exploit. I have 10 slaves on my ships that are monitoring all the local chat server we come 2 I whould understand if the targets/ships are within 14-15 au from u (Max scan range) will show on local chat but in a system that is larger then 20 au should not show ppl in local chat. And the game isent that harsh it's really not. Well maybe it is for some ppl.
Digiblast Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.25 12:57:00 - [11] Originally by: Francesca Dell'Agio So, you don't want to hear anything but support for your "suggestion"? :P My reply was not smack, the hint was pretty clear. It is yet another wannabee ganker request for easy kills. Eve is built on a balance of risk versus reward. This redues/removes risk for one side without providing a counter balancing game mechanism. Silly. Want to get rid of logon traps? Look at my sig. Don't use that topic to support something entirely different. Your sig says it all about what kind of player u are... You want to play with no risks at all. You should really just leave 0.0 space and your allaince and stay in empire. ME gank??? HELL yea But with removeing the local will increase my death ration. So I'm not really doing this for my gain but to get the 0.0 space more intresting.
Francesca Dell'Agio eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.07.25 13:02:00 - [12] Digi > if you want to sink to a personal level, first try getting a life :P Now if you only want responses supporting your idea, you should not have posted on a public forum. You can expect people to discuss matters ^^ I'm not saying it is a bad idea. It is just not a good one. You are effectively cancelling out an aspect of CCP's holy grail of risk vs reward. Find something which doesn't, and CCP may pick up on it. Whining doesn't help you know. Take the idea, think some more on it, and maybe one day you will come up with something which adheres to balance and provides all perspectives in game with a fresh new method & means. Posts with innate explanations/hints btw should never be deleted. WTB: In Game Map Setting: Players logged off in system last 24 hours. Guess why ^^
Maya Rkell Corsets and Carebears	Posted - 2006.07.25 13:04:00 - [13] Originally by: Digiblast And the game isent that harsh it's really not. As a serious question, how mant MMO's have you played?
Francesca Dell'Agio eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.07.25 13:12:00 - [14] on a more serious topic, howcome posts are mysteriously being deleted in this thread? WTB: In Game Map Setting: Players logged off in system last 24 hours. Guess why ^^
Digiblast Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.25 13:13:00 - [15] All I see you guys say is you don't want to get ganked. Plus you seem to have something against my way of saying things using the word for example: Exploit You can stil just log out if you see that many are camping the gate so why is local needed. I just used log in traps as an examble. So don't let that confuse you with the main reason I'm trying to get people to talk about Local chat and Eve Univers map
Digiblast Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.25 13:18:00 - [16] Originally by: Maya Rkell Originally by: Digiblast And the game isent that harsh it's really not. As a serious question, how mant MMO's have you played? Can you be little more advanced in your post. I mean what are you trying to say? And why should I care about others games. Is there a Local chat in Other Games? I have played little of Anarchy and SW Galaxy but kinda only played Eve-Online since Beta.
Digiblast Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.25 13:19:00 - [17] Originally by: Francesca Dell'Agio on a more serious topic, howcome posts are mysteriously being deleted in this thread? Maybe you had nothing that was related to the topic?
Francesca Dell'Agio eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.07.25 13:24:00 - [18] Not at all my dear, the response was while short, concise, to the point and actually contained the crux of the matter: upsetting risk vs reward. WTB: In Game Map Setting: Players logged off in system last 24 hours. Guess why ^^
Francesca Dell'Agio eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.07.25 13:25:00 - [19] Now, shall we get back on topic? WTB: In Game Map Setting: Players logged off in system last 24 hours. Guess why ^^
Digiblast Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.25 13:33:00 - [20] Edited by: Digiblast on 25/07/2006 13:33:59 Sure. Well About the Local chat and map. MAybe it should only been shown in Systems that Have npc stations/posses. And player owned station and posses could add a moduel on theyr pos that show's your corp members and Alliance member only what is in local. But if you talk in local you show up. And if the enemy has a pos and with that moduel also in that system they will also see who are in local. But in Region's like Fountain, Stain, Curse and other Region's that Npc own will show you who are in local but not in systems that has no station
Francesca Dell'Agio eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.07.25 14:05:00 - [21] You're missing the "risk" element for the party who does the incursions. There is no mechanism for the "other side" (so to speak) to identify these. Any ganker with half a brain will move in cloaked, and jump as fast as possible, leaving even visual identification by means of scouting hardly any feasible chance. So whereas your suggestion is very nice for the attacking side, there is no counterbalance in game for the defending side. Maybe the whole thing could be approached from a different angle, one more skill oriented. But that would make the gap between older and new players again a topic, in the light of getting more and more people into 0.0. On a personal note: NPC stations should all be removed from presence in 0.0 due to their ability to provide a theatre of combat which cannot be conquered. Maybe factional warfare will enable the quest to negate NPC station operations in 0.0 WTB: In Game Map Setting: Players logged off in system last 24 hours. Guess why ^^
Digiblast Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.25 14:25:00 - [22] Originally by: Francesca Dell'Agio You're missing the "risk" element for the party who does the incursions. There is no mechanism for the "other side" (so to speak) to identify these. You will have scouts like the attacker. In few dayes of weeks or maybe months probebly in your case you will learn how to avoid this kind of "attack's" Originally by: Francesca Dell'Agio Any ganker with half a brain will move in cloaked, and jump as fast as possible, leaving even visual identification by means of scouting hardly any feasible chance. They already are doing it like that today so I don't know how local helps u there. Other then let u know who it is and if he's known for it he get punished because of the local chat. Originally by: Francesca Dell'Agio So whereas your suggestion is very nice for the attacking side, there is no counterbalance in game for the defending side. I think the Defence side will be much stronger since the big allainces have alot of "Gankers" that like to spend hours at a gate with dozens of allies Originally by: Francesca Dell'Agio On a personal note: NPC stations should all be removed from presence in 0.0 due to their ability to provide a theatre of combat which cannot be conquered. Maybe factional warfare will enable the quest to negate NPC station operations in 0.0 Na just make us able to take it from them.
Francesca Dell'Agio eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.07.25 15:04:00 - [23] Originally by: Digiblast You will have scouts like the attacker. In few dayes of weeks or maybe months probebly in your case you will learn how to avoid this kind of "attack's" Majority of such folks already uses those tbh. It is getting harder and harder to find areas where you don't have to be immensely careful to squeeze in and not get blobbed out or worse scouted out 20 jumps ahead due to over population in 0.0 That is what gives lead to these topics. in earlier days in 0.0 you could jsut go anywhere you wanted, have a covetor or 3 for breakfast and be back at another hunting ground by lunch to catch an npc'er. These days you have to plan such operations, invest time and skills in your operations and not just the territory. It is not as easy as it was. Is that bad? Hardly. That is balance. The only decisive factor is the human factor. Originally by: Digiblast They already are doing it like that today so I don't know how local helps u there. Other then let u know who it is and if he's known for it he get punished because of the local chat. From what I see in 0.0 decent regions know basically all regional players, either by name or by being familiar with their presence. When going in you are most of the time the "odd man out" and thus presumed hostile till inspected. Local is a recognition tool there. Take that away, and there is no means to spot the incursion. Take that away and all we will leave the defenders with is visual recognition at gates. It's an invitation for the equivalent of mothership gate camping in low sec empire by logging on the gank alt after a month or so and making a few kills. Without a decent counterbalancing mechanism this upsets the balance. As I said earlier, perhaps it can be skillbased to HIDE from local, with a balance in the upcoming advanced sovereignty and system scanning features. Originally by: Digiblast I think the Defence side will be much stronger since the big allainces have alot of "Gankers" that like to spend hours at a gate with dozens of allies Hardly. I am serious. The attacker always has the advantage. Be honest, you have to have used that just like us time and time again to whiz through camps and trade routes to population areas :P The attacker has the initiative until such a time that the defender has a shot at taking it or the attacker makes a mistake in his calculations. And that requires the defender to be aware of the incursion with a same feasible chance of recognition as the attacker requires to get in. Speed is life. Initiative is life. Defenders are by the factor that they are required to control territory bound to be static. All in all it comes down to the only hint at a countermeasure being "but they can park scouts to watch gates". Visual identification is practically not feasible in EVE. Not with cloaks, and not with high and rising population in 0.0. The one thing gankers should worry about is the upcoming system scanning, that affects them far more. But still .. from the looks of it that design is proving to be nicely balanced for all sides. It will make the simple gank less easy yes, but that is not a bad thing. Eve is risk vs reward. And the highest rewards are for the biggest risks - and everything can be calculated in eve. Originally by: Digiblast Na just make us able to take it from them. That's what I meant with negate. I am hoping factional warfare will allow, through advanced sovereignty, taking over these stations. WTB: In Game Map Setting: Players logged off in system last 24 hours. Guess why ^^
Digiblast Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.25 15:28:00 - [24] I'm sure ccp wants the local out... Because that will mean more loss/kills and that is kinda good money sink. So match expert, is EvE balanced? I whould atleast try the game without local for few months, then I mean everybody with out local"exploit" Local could stil show numbers but not who are in local unless thouse that want to talk in local. And what do u mean by System scanning???

Saucerhead	Posted - 2006.07.25 15:41:00 - [25] A few things i'd like all posters here to consider: 1. Local is currently working as intented. You're free to suggest it should be working in another way and supporting your position with arguments. However, being persistant in calling use of local 'exploiting' might just earn you warning for trolling. So don't. 2. Discussion about various game features is encouraged. Calling each other noobs, gankers and other personal insults is not. That gets you warnings for personal attacks. Now, i'd like to kindly ask you to adhere to forum rules. If you feel you can't do that, do not post at all. -- Read the Rules!


Mephysto	Posted - 2006.07.25 15:42:00 - [26] Chat is not an exploit, nor is players in system on the map. These will not be changed for the foreseeable future either.

Digiblast Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.25 15:53:00 - [27] yea shut us up... you guys seem to be good at that. What changes are you talking about, can we have some infos?
Digiblast Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.25 16:00:00 - [28] Originally by: Saucerhead 1. Local is currently working as intented. Originally by: Mephysto These will not be changed for the foreseeable future either. One of you say it's been working on and the other says it isent. So what is it? Originally by: Mephysto Chat is not an exploit, nor is players in system on the map. I was just trying to make a point. But if it is against the"forum rules" then I might try to stop using such words

Mephysto	Posted - 2006.07.25 16:02:00 - [29] I'm merely clarifying the current status of local chat, the players in space map features, and providing information on the current plans for them. I fail to see how I am preventing you from having a discussion about them.

superscarface 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.07.25 16:02:00 - [30] Edited by: superscarface on 25/07/2006 16:03:05 I don't really see anything wrong with the current system. Personally, I kinda like knowing when fleets are moving around. Plus if I want to gank some npcer, I just get someone to scout in covert ops. Quote: I whould like to see the game get more advanced/Pro. Really, I think the last thing eve needs is to give older players and people with several accounts more advantage.

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