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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1351
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Posted - 2014.08.26 15:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
I hope you get another medal, and another high five from CCP Fozzie.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1352
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Posted - 2014.08.27 14:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Thanks for posting your thoughts. I think its important that csm members communicate with the players what they are thinking even they may get some negative feedback.
As far as the need to correct the balance in the game I don't think you need to jump to conclusions. Its pretty imbalanced but also there is very little interest in the game anyway. So you just get a few players with an interest and they can sweep the warzone. I would say hold off on any changes regarding balance until after ccp addresses rabbit plexing. Bottom line ccp has been adjusting tiers and lp for years and the game has not gotten any better. Don't fill their work ques with things that aren't really going to make a difference.
DJ FunkyBacon wrote:
I don't think the pendulum should swing on the nuts of AFK plex farmers, but at the same time, there has to be some value to a player willing to fight for a side on a down swing.
You seem to assume rabbit plexing favors the losing side. It doesn't. It simply favors those who want to avoid pvp. Gallente have put rabbit plexing to the best use ever. That is a huge reason gallente won.
DJ FunkyBacon wrote:
A good part of this Gallente Victory is the also Caldari's inability to work together between corps and alliances. I was there in the meeting when the plan was laid out on which system would get hit in what order, the Gallente FCs and CEOs having full knowledge that none of the groups would move in to help one another hold their space, and would patiently wait their turn for the whole of the Gallente militia to come to them.
FYI Its comments like this that will turn off the other militia.
When you talk about caldari militia who do you mean exactly? Do you mean the 5,299 characters reported in the caldari militia? The overwhelming majority of those players are alts and have no interest in any sort of pvp defense. The same is true of the 6,145 gallente characters and all the other militias. The game strongly favors alts so that is what our ranks are full of.
Gallente knew they could out blob caldari - everyone knew it. No matter how good of an organizer you are you won't be able to beat 40 ishtar pilots with 10 pilots in condors. That was the first half of the equation. The second half had to do with the number of alts gallente can generate to rabbit dplex.
DJ FunkyBacon wrote:
In a sense, I'm a bit sad at this victory. I saw flashes of brilliance from the Caldari side during the Okkamon campaign, with large Caldari fleets and several groups working together. There was one night in particular where you guys really brought it, and there were a lot of frustrated words on Gal Mil comms. Had you guys been able to keep it up, the Gallente might never have taken that system, but you didn't, and they did.
I also think there's a marked difference of attitude between the two sides.....
We had to start over from scratch, and what happened was that the following day, ....
That's the real difference I see between the militias. When the Gallente get a bad turn, they seem to rally together tighter than before, and try harder.....
The Caldari could learn something from that, but it won't be easy.....
In closing, while I will happily look at ways to incentivise a losing side to keep fighting (and take suggestions) to bring these ideas to CCP's attention, I also think the Caldari have some work to do on their own house. Any changes that could be made that would affect all sides equally at this point still won't save you guys from yourselves, and your inability/unwillingness to work together
This is pretty sickening to read. What? One night caldari caused some frustration for the gallente? Oh my! Please there was no question Gallente could steamroll the caldari. Even most of the Gallente veterans knew that. They even sat it out because they didn't think it would be good for the game. Had there actually been some doubt these reserves might have joined in because it would have been fun. Gallente basically won the fight using only one hand.
Everyone in Gallente has been singing this song about how they fight outnumbered. But they don't fight outnumbered more than any other militia. Please give it a rest.
Caldari did not lose because they don't have the mental toughness of gallente. They lost because they could not stand up to the gallente blob. No matter what attitude they had -no matter how organized they were they weren't going to win. Take 40 pilots with ****** attitudes in fleet in ishtars versus 10 pilots with great attitudes in condors. You know the result? 10 dead condors.
The biggest problem I see is just how small the blobs were. In a game where there are over 300,000 accounts these battles for the entire gallente caldari front would often have less than 200 pilots from each side! If there is any take away it is that the occupancy war is so bad that very few people care about it. Its not the players fault that answering who can create the most rabbit plexing alts and or form junior varsity blobs is not worth their time.
Learn something from all the pvpers who are leaving faction war, if not eve entirely. Don't think you learned something about gallentes mental toughness versus caldari mental toughness. Most normal mentally adjusted people do not want to play a game where they make several alt accounts that they stare at on multiple monitors so they can run anytime someone comes to fight. The huge influence that type of play has on the occupancy war must go! Until it goes the occupancy war will never be worth fighting.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1354
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Posted - 2014.08.27 17:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
RonPaul Rox wrote:Cearain wrote:
You seem to assume rabbit plexing favors the losing side. It doesn't. It simply favors those who want to avoid pvp. Gallente have put rabbit plexing to the best use ever. That is a huge reason gallente won.
...
When you talk about caldari militia who do you mean exactly? Do you mean the 5,299 characters reported in the caldari militia? The overwhelming majority of those players are alts and have no interest in any sort of pvp defense. The same is true of the 6,145 gallente characters and all the other militias. The game strongly favors alts so that is what our ranks are full of.
you contradicted yourself here. in the first part of your post you said gallente won because we had too many plexing alts. Later in your post you said caldari lost because they had too many plexing alts.
I never said the latter.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1354
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Posted - 2014.08.27 17:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote: Its pretty imbalanced but also there is very little interest in the game anyway. So you just get a few players with an interest and they can sweep the warzone. tl;dr "We didn't want the warzone anyways."
The interest is so low even some gallente were saying that.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1354
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Posted - 2014.08.27 18:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:PERUNGA wrote:
PS Do I get my medal now ?
What he said.
Medals and another high five from fozzie are in order.
I am crying bitterly about this loss but even I can smudge the tears away and acknowledge you deserve both.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1354
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Posted - 2014.08.27 18:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Most people in eve has multiple accounts. I personally will not take any pointers on what is normal from you cearain lol. .
Ok the guy who:
1)Can never be seen in local without his booster alt
2)Posts videos on youtube where he brags about beating 3 frigates with his single frigate but leaves out that the fight was actually 1 frigate and a t3 cruiser versus 3 frigates
3)Actually argues that alts rabbit plexing is good for faction war
thinks I am crazy?
IGÇÖm fine with that.
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
You spend most of your game time posting misrepresented stats on the forum in regards to an aspect of the game you claim is mostly alts and people who dont care about it .
Do you think most characters in faction war are mains? What percent of the 20,000 faction war characters are mains in your opinion?
You think most people in faction war are mains that care about who wins occupancy? Well gallente just swept occupancy in their entire front. Were there battles with thousands of thes caring fw characters participating?
What claim do you even disagree with?
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Even when you play you just roam around in a solo kestrel and whine about links system by system. That is a very interesting type of normal you have there. . . All the problems you think exist could only be fixed by breaking what has become one of the best places in eve The thing you dont understand is that its the players who would need to change to fix what you see as problems...
I donGÇÖt whine about booster alts in every system. I think off grid boosting is a bad mechanic. Does that make me mentally unstable? I do like to fly solo kestrels so I will take whatever I have coming for that.
I suppose the only way to not be biased and bitter in your opinion is to agree that rabbit alt plexing is fine and pretend it doesnGÇÖt really effect the war zone. You think eliminating that would break faction war. Ok at least we have identified the root of our disagreement.
The players are not going to change. They will continue to play the mechanics to pursue their goals. If they want to win occupancy then under the current mechanics they will get alts out in plexes. This is what has been happening since before inferno see sasawong and sheltering sky, see flying hot pocket, Cynthia nezmor and now XG with his deplexing alt capturing 100 plexes in 2 weeks. Thinking players will suddenly start playing the same mechanics differently is not going to work. The problem really is the game not the players.
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
TBH amarr/matar wz is more broken than ours due to egglehende, the same problem doesnt happen in gal space due to lack of centrally located neutral systems. CCP really need to fix egglehende to give conflict drivers a chance to work over there. .
This is interesting. You think Amarr minmatar zone is broken because Amarr base out of faction war space. So what do you do? You force caldari out of faction war space.
Again the problem is the huge influence rabbit alt plexers have over the occupancy war. It is not the players itGÇÖs the game mechanics. Amarr and minmatar also likely have a larger percent of core vets so they know the silliness of the occupancy war. Caldari and gallente are new enough to drink the koolaid your are selling.
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
The other problem in both warzones, is the abundance of powerful neutral entities who just linger to take easy fights against less equipped militia fleets. the lack of BC/BS fleets of old has nothing to do with FW mechanics, its simply not sensible to undock BC's and end up blobbed by commandships, or BS and end up blobbed by proteus, blap dreads or other hard counter.
Wow you are really complaining about neutrals that want to pvp? As a pvper neutrals were often a godsend as otherwise I wouldnGÇÖt get half the fights.
You know there is a reason the more veteran and better equipped pvpers are not in faction war donGÇÖt you? ItGÇÖs because faction war mechanics do not value their pvp skills. Think about it. Gallente just swept the front without the help of their best pvp corp. They did it with new players and lots and lots of alts.
If faction war were a game where a pvper where more valued than a plexing alt there would be more of those equipped and skilled pvpers in faction war. You wouldnGÇÖt have to run to ccps skirts to try to find protection from the good pvpers they would be in the militias.
Ok should there be a plex that allows BCs or BSes (or even caps but not supers) and down? Sure I am for it. Null sec entities do have access to much more resources. But not all of the low sec neutrals are null sec alliances. Many are just low sec pvpers who left faction war because faction war did not value their pvp skills.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1355
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Posted - 2014.08.27 19:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
RonPaul Rox wrote:Cearain wrote:RonPaul Rox wrote:Cearain wrote:
You seem to assume rabbit plexing favors the losing side. It doesn't. It simply favors those who want to avoid pvp. Gallente have put rabbit plexing to the best use ever. That is a huge reason gallente won.
...
When you talk about caldari militia who do you mean exactly? Do you mean the 5,299 characters reported in the caldari militia? The overwhelming majority of those players are alts and have no interest in any sort of pvp defense. The same is true of the 6,145 gallente characters and all the other militias. The game strongly favors alts so that is what our ranks are full of.
you contradicted yourself here. in the first part of your post you said gallente won because we had too many plexing alts. Later in your post you said caldari lost because they had too many plexing alts.
I never said caldari lost because they had too many plexing alts. Not in that post or in any other. Maybe you thought that was implied by the second quote. But its not logically implied or implied in any other sense. Caldari might have allot of people who don't care about occupancy and only run missions or pvp, as do all the factions. But plexing alts only help occupancy for the militia, they never hurt it.
Some of the 5,299 Caldari probably includes allot of plexing alts for players who don't care about who wins the occupancy war. They look at what tier each miltiia is at. So once Caldari hit tier 1 they probably plexed with their gallente alts. But yeah caldari sure could have used more plexing alts.
Garr Earthbender wrote:
Normally I just ignore your dribble, but this one made me laugh and ask the question 'Who do you think the best PvP corp in gal mil is?'
The best pvp corp in gallente militia is the gallente corp with the best pvpers. Did they leave Gallente militia or something?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1355
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Posted - 2014.08.27 19:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Deacon Abox wrote:YOU WEREN'T THERE MAN.  You really don't know what happened in the Cal/Gal warzone over the last few weeks. So please stop talking as if you were there.
Caldari guy said he couldn't get enough pilots in ships other than condors. Gallente say Caldari threw in the towel. I don't see any big controversy about what happened. Gallente pilots say they were lucky to get 40 guys in ships and Caldari apparently couldn't even match that.
My point is that when the militia have 20,000 active characters that seems like a sickly turnout for a war zone about to be completely taken. Do you have battle reports with even 10% of the militia showing up? That to me is the biggest takeaway from this event.
Is there even a dispute about this?
These are the posts I am reading from people who claim they were there I don't see any reason to reject it.
DJ comes in with the the inevitable psychobabble that the winning side always seems to come in with, about how they were just mentally tougher. And that is why they fought through the hard times. How does he know how mentally tough the caldari were? How does he know what attitudes they had?
On the other hand I am hearing gallente militia veterans saying doing this to squids was just like kicking puppys so they did not bother. If DJ has some good evidence to go against the majority of reports to support his theory that the war was not won simply because gallente could easily outblob the caldari then I am interested. But saying one night the gallente were a bit frustrated by the caldari is pretty weak sauce for that conclusion. Especially when we see many gallente were sitting on the sidelines.
Sorry I have seen this too many times in eve even dating back to when the Caldari stomped through war zone. I know enough about eve and faction war to know that one side is really not psychologically tougher than the other. Fcs just look at the ships they have on hand and the ships the enemy has and try to figure if they should take the fight. All this other stuff about attitudes and characters of the players is just crap.
But believe what you want.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1355
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Posted - 2014.08.27 21:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:It's not like you did anything in our warzone. I can understand why you're so bitter for taking days off of work for a video game down in Huola. But you had no skin in game in our warzone. So why you so upset? All you need to say is "Gallente play this game better than me, and that's ok"
You are right I have no skin in the gallente caldari warzone. So that makes me much more objective about it. I am just looking at some facts and drawing some conclusions.
Its also odd that you keep saying I am upset. There was nothing upsetting about huola. I took a few days off and got exactly what I expected. I didn't know if we would capture it or not but the pvp I got, was as expected. Neither better or worse than I thought it would be - no complaints and I would do it again if work was as it was then.
Instead of acting childish and calling me a crybaby because I disagree with you about the mechanics, why don't you look at some of the specific facts that I raise about faction war?
You claim rabbit alts are irrelevant but your going to keep your d-plexing alt all the same right?
What percent of the militias 20,000 characters do you think are main characters?
Wouldn't you think there would be bigger turnouts at some of these battles given the number of characters in militia and the ?300,000? accounts in eve?
If you agree the turn out was low, don't you think that suggests few people really care about occupancy?
Why do you think few people care about occupancy?
Honestly act like an adult and engage the issues instead of just name calling.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1355
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Posted - 2014.08.27 22:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote:....You are right I have no skin in the gallente caldari warzone. You are upset, look at how many longwinded posts you've made in the past day on a subject that doesn't matter to you. BTW, is there any way you could edit them and put up a few tl;dr's in there to help us out?
Another childish "look your upset" post. Just because someone writes allot about a topic they care about that does not mean they are upset.
I do care about eve and faction war. Eve is a great game, probably the best after chess. So I post about both. I never denied that. I don't really care that gallente won the last round. I really want to care about who wins the occupancy war, but its not happening with these mechanics. I am not the only one who finds it easy not to care about occupancy with these mechanics.
If you want to discuss the issues like an adult maybe answer some of the questions I offered in my last post. Who knows you might have something constructive to say other than a variation of your junior high retort of "why you so mad?"
Eh, I am not expecting that, but one can always hope.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1355
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Posted - 2014.08.27 22:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
Garr Earthbender wrote:If you write 'I don't care about (insert something here)' enough, argue about (same something) enough, then people are going to take that as overwhelming evidence that you care.
Ok so if you ask someone why they are upset about something and they tell you they are not upset, then you think they must be upset.
I care about faction war and eve as a whole. That's why I post about them. It would be great if ccp fixed fw occupancy. But right now with these mechanics, I don't really care who wins occupancy. I want to care, but until the game is fixed, I don't.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1355
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Posted - 2014.08.27 23:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Cearain wrote: But right now with these mechanics, I don't really care who wins occupancy. I want to care, but until the game is fixed, I don't. Then don't post in a "We win FW" thread. You're obviously bitter that Gallente rolled the warzone. There's no other explanation. Don't be mad. Be a good sport like the Caldari: give props to a well-earned victory, and then get back to fighting.
Just as I thought nothing more than a childish "your mad" post.
My first post, other than saying you should get a medal and a high five, was responding to a lengthy post from a csm member. He was drawing conclusions based on this event. I questioned the conclusions he reached.
If his post was off topic then I suppose you think my response to his post was also off topic. But if its within the scope of the topic then my response was as well.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Goose Swarm Coalition
1355
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Posted - 2014.08.29 13:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Super Chair wrote:Petioning to rename this W&T forum from Warfare and Tactics to Whining and Tears
Irony
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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