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s0cks
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Posted - 2003.10.06 19:27:00 -
[1]
Firstly I want to say that this is a post about how there is not a enough drone defence for frigates against heavy drones.
Since the patch drones have been beefed up to be a very useful weapon. They are tougher and they hit harder. They have also had a boost in intelligence, they now cycle through targets who are agressive to the owner.
I'm not saying drones should be nerfed back, i'm saying that frigates need some sort of drone defence module. Not overpowering, but more of an option.
Before patch, we could use tactics, drones would attack the first person who was aggressive and not cycle. Player A attacks, Player B jams, Player A get destroyed by drones or warps away, drones sit and do nothing to Player B...
Now that tactic is not an option, and today for some reason this happened: Drones not launched, I fully jam and warp scramble, mate comes in, fires missiles, drones released, drones attack my mate! then not only that, they turn on me? even tho i had him jammed from the start while he had no drones out??
This kind of intelligence boost makes these tactics useless.
Ideas for defence that people may suggest:
Smart bombs: micro smartbombs do only a small amount of damage, by the time the drones are in range, and you've activated it enough times to kill em, your dead....
Cruise missiles: sending one of these babies into a drones nest is a possible idea, however this requires at least 5 or so active members in the corp to have Missiles lvl5 (to have some1 able to use em eery hunt), and we are not a rich corp, and these babies cost us a lot.
Heavy Missiles: Probably strong enough to take out one drone maybe, but the splash wouldn't be big enough to take out a swarm...
ECM Burst: useless, doesnt work, tried and tested
I think CCP should nerf the ECM burst big time. It should decrease all sensor strengths by -2 or even -1 in a 10km radius for a set amount of time, but require either large powergrid/cpu (for a frigate - say 10mw/40tf) or large cap penalties (such as the warp disrupter (50cap/10secs). If the current ECM burst did -8 to all sensor strength for 5km, for 45secs as it says, it may work, but i believe it only does -8 to sensors for a brief moment, allowing drones to lock on again immediatly. Its 5km range is also limited considering heay drones shoot from 10km. I did try the ECM burst but it did nothing to stop drones attacking me at 1500m.
So yer, nerf the ECM Burst or give us something new... 
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Bashier Tarr
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Posted - 2003.10.06 19:39:00 -
[2]
Just a note about ECM burst, despite popular belief, it's working properly. The only thing it does is break targeting locks on anything that has scanning strength 8 or less. The 45 seconds is simply the "reuse" period (think of it as the weapon version of Electronic Warfare, the 45 seconds are the "rate of fire", and not the "duration").
I agree with everything else tho, Heavy drones are now a great tool, but now we need a counter-tool.
Gradient is hiring! Check our CoC here. |
s0cks
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Posted - 2003.10.06 20:02:00 -
[3]
Yer, i thought thats how the ECM burst worked, making it useless as the lock on time for drones is probably 1second or less.
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Reina Heikan
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Posted - 2003.10.06 21:56:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Reina Heikan on 06/10/2003 21:56:58
 Quote:
Yer, i thought thats how the ECM burst worked, making it useless as the lock on time for drones is probably 1second or less.
Two seconds, actually...and as their RoF is also two seconds, an ECM burst will do exactly nothing to them. It sounds like what you're asking for is an area-effect jamming "field" that would affect everything in its range, but only by a very small amount.
That might work, as heavy drones only have a sensor strength of 1 in all categories, but it would need a nasty penalty too (keeping in mind that such a module would be useful for any class of ship, and high fitting requirements for a frigate aren't very high for a cruiser or battleship). Currently, drones are one of the only ways of dealing with a ship specialized for lockdown, and being able to fit a single module to negate that threat seems a bit overpowered to me. Interesting idea, though.
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s0cks
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Posted - 2003.10.06 22:15:00 -
[5]
Cruisers and BS's have the abillity to fit med/large smartbombs which can be quite effective against drones.
Drones aren't the only defence against being jammed, FoF missiles work too.
I just belive we need some sorta anti-drone device, but not over-powering. If they nerfed the drones back to being as 'dumb' as they were then that would be nice too. As drone carriers would still be protected against lone rangers, and stupid ppl 
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.10.06 22:48:00 -
[6]
What possible reason is there for nerfing heavy drones simply because your style of piracy is hindered by it?
Wait for Elite Frigates.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Sc0rpion
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Posted - 2003.10.06 22:56:00 -
[7]
Solution : Don't mess with a Dominix.
"The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously."
-Freidrich Nietzche |
s0cks
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Posted - 2003.10.06 22:59:00 -
[8]
Edited by: s0cks on 06/10/2003 23:01:32
Josh - sensible answer plz. Basically, if some1 has heavy drones there is nothing we can do about it. nothing. they kill us in seconds, and they cycle thru every1 of us. we have next to no chance.
I know it seems i'm moaning cus it basically stops our pirating flat, but its basically makes ships immune to frigates - any frigate, which means they are overpowered. Every gun has a defence (shield hardners, ECM, 50mm steel plating...), missiles have defence (defender), and well a frigate has no viable defence against drones.
and how are elite frigates going to change things... more slots, same struct, same armour, same shields... i fail to see how they'll be anti-drone?
I would rather not nerf drones but have an anti-drone med-slot device.
Edit: Plus 90% of cruisers in asteroid fields, are thorax's. Which = drones.
Again let me stress how i'm trying to show how overpowering drones are against the frigate user. What would the point be in frigates in a large battle, if 10 drones did the job better?
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SkyQuake
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Posted - 2003.10.06 23:02:00 -
[9]
Cant state my opinion better than Joshua's.
Dont FOF's intercept dones? If so, a couple of heavys shuld easily do the trick.
SQ
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.10.06 23:03:00 -
[10]
"Cruise missiles: sending one of these babies into a drones nest is a possible idea, however this requires at least 5 or so active members in the corp to have Missiles lvl5 (to have some1 able to use em eery hunt), and we are not a rich corp, and these babies cost us a lot."
... Uhh but then it'll take a mere week or so to have your members skilled in using the cruise missiles, and the thermal/explosive combo you need to take the drones down effectively is quite cheap (5k per missile or so, less if you search well)
In other words, i wouldn't really demand some additional solution to make things easier here -- from the EVE background, drones are supposed to be extremely dangerous to the small ships... as much as i don't like the idea myself. :s
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dalman
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Posted - 2003.10.06 23:08:00 -
[11]
Quote:
Firstly I want to say that this is a post about how there is not a enough drone defence for frigates against heavy drones.
Well, since a heavy drone could be considered an unmanned frigate, I find it hard that a single frigate should be able to defend against 6+ heavy drones.
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Dragon Emperor
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Posted - 2003.10.07 00:11:00 -
[12]
Quote:
Quote:
Firstly I want to say that this is a post about how there is not a enough drone defence for frigates against heavy drones.
Well, since a heavy drone could be considered an unmanned frigate, I find it hard that a single frigate should be able to defend against 6+ heavy drones.
can't agree more why somebody want to win 1 vs 6+ fight and think 6 beat 1 is overpowered for 6 side?
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DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2003.10.07 00:59:00 -
[13]
Do what you guys do best and why you pick frigates: for teamwork (i hope i asume this correct!).
Instead of going with 7 guys on a hunt, take 8 guys with you from 1 who will take out drones only.
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
Q NO2
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Posted - 2003.10.07 01:34:00 -
[14]
personally i was glad drones got beefed up - they did not have any real strength before and were stupid to say the least...
secondly, choose ur target wells s0cks, many lvl 1 BS's (apart from the Dom) have a relatively small drone bay...
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dalman
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Posted - 2003.10.07 01:57:00 -
[15]
Quote:
secondly, choose ur target wells s0cks, many lvl 1 BS's (apart from the Dom) have a relatively small drone bay...
It's the other way.
Dominix has more dronebay than Mega.
Arma has more dronebay than Apoc.
Tphoon has more dronebay than Tempest.
Scorpion is only lvl 1 ship which doesn't have more dronebay than the lvl 2 ship(same dronebay as the raven).
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
ClawHammer III
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Posted - 2003.10.07 02:28:00 -
[16]
Well the obvious solution would be to use at least Cruisers if you want to take out a Battleship. Frigates were never meant to be able to take out a Battleship unless they are in overwhelming numbers. However they are still useful in disabling a Battleship. As long as you don't fire on the drone's mothership, the drones won't go after you, correct?
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Sc0rpion
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Posted - 2003.10.07 06:29:00 -
[17]
I've spent a VERY long time training Drone Interfacing 5, I would hate to think someone could completely negate them with 1 module, ESPECIALLY some dude in a frigate.
"The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously."
-Freidrich Nietzche |
ClawHammer III
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Posted - 2003.10.07 06:49:00 -
[18]
Quote:
I've spent a VERY long time training Drone Interfacing 5, I would hate to think someone could completely negate them with 1 module, ESPECIALLY some dude in a frigate.
Couldn't agree more
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Sara Kerrigan
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Posted - 2003.10.07 07:27:00 -
[19]
How about give drones a 5th sensor type different from the ones used by the races-- and then a burst module that could disrupt those sensors for a full 5 seconds, with a 10 or 15 second activation time? That way you could at least cut the drone's attack against you in half or thirds: 5 seconds disrupted, 5-10 seconds attacking. Higher tiers of the module could increase the disruption time or reduce activation time.
______________
The Kerrigan Chronicles |
Sparc Ambertin
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Posted - 2003.10.07 09:17:00 -
[20]
The only defence against drones atm is strength in numbers.
A typical [frig] can take care of three drones ( two jammed, one targeted ), we just need more frigs in a gang and some training to deal with them .
Don't worry we will adapt to the changes 
BTW: If the ECM Burst gets some love ( like increasing the jamming duration ) it would benefit both sides, afterall most frigs don't have a sensor strength greater than 8.
--
"Don't laugh at the frigate, for he will laugh at you when his friends show up."
- Mercenary Frigates. |
Sparc Ambertin
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Posted - 2003.10.07 09:22:00 -
[21]
Ohh, and it would be nice to give drones a number or some other means of identification.
I just imagine coordinating an attack on 10 drones ....
--
"Don't laugh at the frigate, for he will laugh at you when his friends show up."
- Mercenary Frigates. |
s0cks
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Posted - 2003.10.07 10:17:00 -
[22]
Ok people who have replied to this post are making no sense.
I don't expect a frigate to win 1vs6 drones (most of the time there will be 6 or more of us, yet the drones just cycle and kill every1 - human vs drone, should be an easy win). Drones are 'drones'. If a guy went out in a frigate that was pretty much designed to counter drones and nothing else then he should win. He would have the modules and weapons to boot. Drones are nothing but moving guns.
And again, one guy can be used to take care of drones. This is what we would do, however if he was gonna use cruise missiles he'd need lvl5 missile launcher op. and not just 1 guy - but more then 1 guy, so we had a person on every hunt.
I'm saying there should be a way around drones for every ship that isnt extreme. Battleships and cruisers have smartobmbs - which is one module - whch can disable drones easily. What do frigates have? nothing? So now frigates are useless against drones? Nothing they can effectivly do? Its unfair. Even if this one module took 20 powergrid, and 100cpu, and disabled only 3 drones at a time (having to fit 3/4 in all med slots), i'd be happy. Just something for us frigate users.
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Beringe
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Posted - 2003.10.07 11:33:00 -
[23]
You already answered your own question in your original post, to be honest.
Cruise missiles. It won't take that long to get to ML level 5, and they aren't *that* expensive to manifacture - especially if you reserve them for use v.s. drones only.
I shudder at the thought of a pack of frigates destroying my heavy drones...I have no defense from that (Dominix has no launcher hardpoint, and even if it did, defenders won't save my drones).
Frankly, that is why I carry 3 entire waves of drones. Just in case.
-------------------------------------------
"My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead."
"No, it's none of your business." |
Varia
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Posted - 2003.10.07 12:10:00 -
[24]
Being a heavy drone user myself this is great news regarding drones AI, it's about time drones got a little tuneing.
Now if only we can have a better control interface like Guard Target, Set Orbit Range, Drone Grouping etc.
Women that strive to equal men lack ambition. |
Paul Dubois
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Posted - 2003.10.07 12:13:00 -
[25]
Well, the obvious answer defence wise would be speed :-) Max speed on a combat drone varies from hmmm 300 to 500 from memory (may be wrong here), though the scouts go up to 700. A good well equipped frigate should be able to outrun heavy combat drones, certainly the likes of ogres which only go at 300ms.
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Mynxy O'claire
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Posted - 2003.10.07 15:15:00 -
[26]
Quote:
Well, since a heavy drone could be considered an unmanned frigate, I find it hard that a single frigate should be able to defend against 6+ heavy drones.
Erm, sorry, we dont travel alone. Ever. We specialize in group tactics. What s0cks is trying to say is that it just isnt right when we warp into a belt with 5 or 6 of us and have to retreat after losing people left and right to a few drones. We have zero defense. s0cks is absolutely correcy, i believe there needs to be some form of frigate-only defense because as things stand now we dont really have access to many of the tools that cruisers + battleships do.
-----------------------------------
Fear the mighty Kestrel.
"Fired first salvo, stand back." |
ClawHammer III
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Posted - 2003.10.07 15:59:00 -
[27]
Thats really the whole point isn't it. Frigs arn't supposed to have all the tools avalible to larger ships.
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s0cks
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Posted - 2003.10.07 17:08:00 -
[28]
Doesnt take that long for missile lvl5? a new char with low attributes? 2.5days for lvl3 to lvl4 on Rank1 skills....
But seeing as y'all don't want your lovely BS or cruiser to be destroyed they'll be no change to drone defence. They'll be overpowered forever. Just wish every1 wouldn't fly a thorax.
Peace and love x
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.10.07 17:30:00 -
[29]
"Doesnt take that long for missile lvl5? a new char with low attributes? 2.5days for lvl3 to lvl4 on Rank1 skills...."
And about a week to move from lvl.4 to lvl.5. Honestly... is it such awfully long time to gain ability to use a weapon dealing 300+ damage with each shot, on a frigate?
Takes far longer to get those heavy drone operation skills up to usable level iirc...
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Beringe
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Posted - 2003.10.07 17:41:00 -
[30]
What j0sephine said.
-------------------------------------------
"My main griveance with the Caldari state was that once I had finished my work for them, they wanted me dead."
"No, it's none of your business." |
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