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Maelstrom: What *should* stats be?

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Randay Band of Builders Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.28 01:38:00 - [1] clearly it should be 8/8/8 with 40000pg and 2000cpu. anything less would be dumb. ------------------------------------------- Apparently the Swedish language is against the rules of the forums.
Randay Band of Builders Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.28 01:47:00 - [2] Edited by: Randay on 28/07/2006 01:47:41 Originally by: Lexor SLice 8/7/5 is the only way it should work realisticly, anyone who says otherwise doesnt fly minnie ships tbh. Caldari pilots have been working around this problem since forever. Shield tanking uses mid slots. Adapt. ------------------------------------------- Apparently the Swedish language is against the rules of the forums.
Randay Band of Builders Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.28 01:58:00 - [3] Originally by: Wrayeth Originally by: Randay Edited by: Randay on 28/07/2006 01:47:41 Originally by: Lexor SLice 8/7/5 is the only way it should work realisticly, anyone who says otherwise doesnt fly minnie ships tbh. Caldari pilots have been working around this problem since forever. Shield tanking uses mid slots. Adapt. Caldari pilots don't need a MWD or a web. Try flying an AC tempest without them before you post idiocy. We don't need one because we have adapted. /idiocy ------------------------------------------- Apparently the Swedish language is against the rules of the forums.
Randay Band of Builders Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.28 02:07:00 - [4] Really? Ages you say? How long have you been a Raven pilot? ------------------------------------------- Apparently the Swedish language is against the rules of the forums.
Randay Band of Builders Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.28 02:39:00 - [5] Originally by: Cohkka Originally by: Randay Really? Ages you say? How long have you been a Raven pilot? Never. But I hope you're so kind and tell what exactly changed. Well lets start by addressing the two modules listed here as a comparison, MWD and webbers. Long ago, torpedoes moved along at some 800m/s. A Raven with MWD could "stack" torpedoes while speeding towards its victim to deal massive untankable DPS. To your credit, this setup wasn't too popular because it was hard to execute. A change to MWD made them remove 25% capacitor from your ship(before this change they did not affect capacitor, seeing as how the Maelstrom's bonus is for ACTIVE tanking, a MWD is the worst mod you can fit to your ship. This is why Raven(And all other Shield tankers) setups no longer use MWDs. Webbers are actually a very nice module to have on your raven. Moreso today then in years past, because of when they added explosion velocity, explosion radius, etc... to missiles. Without a webber an inty is virtually invincible to your missiles, leaving you tackled indefinately. Before the missile changes they used to do full damage to any sized/speed ship, meaning webbers were not too necessary/common on Ravens. I could go on but well, if that is not enough for you to kind of understand what I am trying to say, well... saying anymore won't really get anywhere. ------------------------------------------- Apparently the Swedish language is against the rules of the forums.
Randay Band of Builders Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.28 03:01:00 - [6] Originally by: Wrayeth stuff By adapt I mean to think of the most effective(best) ways to fit your MAELSTROM without asking for it to be something that it isn't. It has a 7.5% bonus to shield boosting; ACTIVE boosting. It has a ROF bonus to guns. Now lets break that down. 1. The Maelstrom is good for active shield tanking. 2. The Maelstrom's gun bonus applies to both AC and Arty equally well. 3. The Maelstrom has massive PG(according to current DB stats) With these three facts one can safely conclude: 1. The Maelstrom will not fit an MWD. 2. Since the Maelstrom cannot fit an MWD, it will be most effective long range with Artillery. Therefore, the Maelstrom will be most effective as a long range gunboat, with a massive active shield tank. Now to try and set it up otherwise, would be your perogative, but by no means does it validate any concerns about the Maelstrom being "useless" or broken or anything like that. I can see if the gun bonus was for tracking or something like that, or if the Maelstrom didn't have enough PG for Arties, but that just isn't the case. Anyway even if I deleted everything above this line and filled it with jibberish, you'd still be a complete fool to fit an MWD onto a Active shield tanked ship, period. ------------------------------------------- Apparently the Swedish language is against the rules of the forums.
Randay Band of Builders Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.28 03:31:00 - [7] Originally by: Wrayeth You're missing the point - the AC tempest will be worthless once the hyperion makes it into the game. Minmatar NEED a ship that can go head to head with it and the blasterthron without ECM (since ECM's getting nerfed), and the maelstrom is the only hope of that. So yes, it needs to be able to run an autocannon setup. Once again all I have to say is: Adapt. The reason why the ships and modules forum is a complete joke is because everyone is busy comparing apples to oranges and lobbying for changes that would make the game easier for themselves. ------------------------------------------- Apparently the Swedish language is against the rules of the forums.
Randay Band of Builders Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.28 03:33:00 - [8] Originally by: Wizie For it to be a useful 1400 boat (beat the Tempest in that role), it requires a dmg bonus not an rof one. The dev(s) already said that the new ti3 BS are specifically NOT supposed to outdamage the old ones. ------------------------------------------- Apparently the Swedish language is against the rules of the forums.
Randay Band of Builders Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.28 04:54:00 - [9] Originally by: Wrayeth Edited by: Wrayeth on 28/07/2006 04:21:56 Originally by: Randay Originally by: Wrayeth You're missing the point - the AC tempest will be worthless once the hyperion makes it into the game. Minmatar NEED a ship that can go head to head with it and the blasterthron without ECM (since ECM's getting nerfed), and the maelstrom is the only hope of that. So yes, it needs to be able to run an autocannon setup. Once again all I have to say is: Adapt. The reason why the ships and modules forum is a complete joke is because everyone is busy comparing apples to oranges and lobbying for changes that would make the game easier for themselves. Please tell me how, exactly I can adapt to fighting the hyperion with any of the Minmatar battleships in short range configuration? Please bear in mind that ECM is getting nerfed, so that's not an acceptable suggestion. You say "adapt", I say "tell me how it's possible or stfu". Unless you support your comment with evidence that it's possible to adapt, your argument is null and void (i.e. Null and Void L will pwn your AC boat). fine, ill learn you the game. sensor dampener. ------------------------------------------- Apparently the Swedish language is against the rules of the forums.
Randay Band of Builders Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.28 05:21:00 - [10] Originally by: Wrayeth Originally by: Randay fine, ill learn you the game. sensor dampener. Nope, won't work - you can't fit enough of them and still have the required midslot modules for a short range setup. Moreover, if ECM's getting nerfed, you can expect dampers to have some "love", too. Quote: edit: in addition, a maelstrom vs hyperion battle, the hyperion ABSOLUTELY MUST GET WITHIN RANGE. Therefore logic dictates that it MUST have a MWD fitted and IT WILL MWD towards you. Therefore, you do not need an MWD, just a webber for when the hyperion realizes its mistake(taking on a superior pilot). AC have a range advantage over blasters due to falloff, start battle at 30km, align away and say "oops!" in local, lock, shoot, dampen, web, scramble, collect loot, say GF in local, and be on your way. Webs only have a 10km range, and blasters with Null hit quite well at that range. Even neutrons with antimatter do quite well. In addition, the hyperion is going to be AS FAST OR FASTER than the AC tempest, making it impossible to keep at range. Sigh, guess Ill clarify, Hyperion is going to have low lock range. The web is so that he can't run away after he starts losing. You will have a superior tank, and better cap situation since you didn't spend it all MWDing towards the hyperion. so to repeat: 1. dampeners are to strike first. 2. he will automatically be mwding towards you, big sig radius = hits, him using cap = good 3. after he realizes he has been dampened, he will want to run 4. by this time you should already have put quite a whooping on his shield 5. you seal the deal by webbing and scrambling 6. the other guy runs to ships and modules forums and starts a thread If you honestly think that that isn't enough of an advantage to win, then well thats good, because without people like you, I wouldn't get any kill mails. ------------------------------------------- Apparently the Swedish language is against the rules of the forums.
Randay Band of Builders Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.28 05:23:00 - [11] Originally by: Locke Ateid I can't believe you think that has the remote chance of working, not only that, you're telling people they should equip MWDs (Your plan, as bad it is, won't work without one) and ACs even after you made a big deal that is the one thing they SHOULDN'T do. learn to read, I didn't say anything about putting an mwd on your ship. thanks for playing. ------------------------------------------- Apparently the Swedish language is against the rules of the forums.
Randay Band of Builders Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.28 06:13:00 - [12] Edited by: Randay on 28/07/2006 06:13:30 Originally by: Azerrad intelligent reply I doubt the Hyperion with its 15000ish PG will be able to fit a cap booster, dual rep, and 8 blasters. Much less run it all, even with a cap booster. Hyperion has a huge disadvantage in any practical PVP situation because its a blasterboat and can't really be anything else. We can go all day making up hypothetical situations where one would win over the other. However, this is what I mean by adapt. Hyperion vs Maelstrom is hardly an automatic win for the Hyperion. Honestly, the ships aren't even in the game, and yet the forums are full of these threads. ------------------------------------------- Apparently the Swedish language is against the rules of the forums.
Randay Band of Builders Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.28 06:32:00 - [13] Originally by: Azerrad The stats also aren't anywhere near finalized, so who knows if that 15000 grid from the outdated test server stats will stick. Even if it does, that plan would have a tough time beating a dual-rep ion megathron which is a very real setup. Thron is ti2. tier2 hitpoint spread. no cap bonus. nearly same pg as hype. You'd have a better chance then against a hyperion. Quote: Edit: to get things a closer to the topic at hand. Your plan also shows the need for 7 mid slots, since it doesn't stand a chance in hell of beating the Hyperion with only 2 slots for a tank (assuming mwd-web-scram-sensor damp, although mwd-web-scram-cap booster is more likely). The setup I proposed HAS NO MWD! why the hell are people saying that it does, god. You can even ditch the damp for 4 heavy SD ogres and get a whopping 4 slots for tank. Like I said we can go back and forth all day... ------------------------------------------- Apparently the Swedish language is against the rules of the forums.
Randay Band of Builders Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.28 06:52:00 - [14] Originally by: Azerrad A better chance yes, but I still don't think you would ever win. A sensor damp isn't going to be enough to overcome the damage output of blasters vs. autocannons. Obviously you wouldnt use a sensor dampener against a megathron. Quote: I know you said it wouldn't fit one. However, you are now trying to fit the Maelstrom specifically to counter the Hyperion. What happens if you run into a Raven, Abaddon, etc.. they will maintian range and completely own you. The fact of the matter is that any ship can be setup specifically to counter any other ship, but trying to use such setups to justify balance is disingenuous. If you are fitting an autocannon ship you will be fitting a speed mod. The original post that I responded to with that setup: Please tell me how, exactly I can adapt to fighting the hyperion with any of the Minmatar battleships in short range configuration? Please bear in mind that ECM is getting nerfed, so that's not an acceptable suggestion. I created a setup for the maelstrom just for fighting the hyperion, because he asked me to. IMO all of the new ships(except hype) are fleet ships, so any general setups I would personally use would consist of big guns, damage mods, and ecm. Therefore a maelstrom vs hyperion fight would never happen. they'd just warp away from each other. ------------------------------------------- Apparently the Swedish language is against the rules of the forums.
Randay Band of Builders Inc.	Posted - 2006.07.28 07:12:00 - [15] Originally by: Azerrad The fact remains that the setup you came up with had a fatal flaw in that it would be killed by pretty much every other ship if used in actual gameplay. It is not a realistic setup in that regard, and even if used would have a questionable chance against the Hyperion. It is akin to someone asking how to deal with interceptors in a Raven and getting this setup back: 6x Rocket Launcher II, 2x 75mm Railgun II 3xWebs, 3xScrams 3xBCU II, 2xMFS II In this case you would have a good chance of taking out an interceptor, but it isn't a realistic setup. Granted this example is a little more extreme than yours, but the point still remains. Adapt doesn't mean fit to take out that one ship and nothing else. Im honestly tired of talking to you. You win. You may continue to whine for a win button. I concede all previous arguements to you. You win the maelstrom is a peice of crap and can't kill anything bigger then an ibis, and even then there would have to be a series of unfortunate events for the ibis to lose. Lesson learnt, arguing with exclamation marks = waste. ------------------------------------------- Apparently the Swedish language is against the rules of the forums.

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