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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.27 21:52:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Nafri
Problem is, Devs dont want Minmatar to have alphastrike.
So I will fight to get some DPS
Yes they do. Ive read several posts where they mention the alphastrike as typical for minmatar and that its very intended. Right now, Megathron have better dps than tempest at range, tempest has its alphastrike.
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Eximius Josari
Citizens of E.A.R.T.H.
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2006.07.27 21:55:00 -
[62]
Right, Minnie ships are supposed to be hard hitting, but ****ty DPS...too bad Autos are not quite up to that ideal.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.27 21:56:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Eximius Josari
Right, Minnie ships are supposed to be hard hitting, but ****ty DPS...too bad Autos are not quite up to that ideal.
Autocannons are not supposed to have alphastrike. 
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Tiuwaz
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.27 22:11:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Tiuwaz on 27/07/2006 22:13:37
ah well i am gonna sway now a bit from the current discussion and comment on the intended role by Tux:
in general i like the idea of a tanking minmatar ship, its something original and not a bland repaste of old minni ships
but if you do it then plz make it work, original and useless is still summed up as useless
I'd also heavily favour a resist/hp bonus over a boost amount bonus
alright got that off my chest, the rest can continue now 
Originally by: Oveur
This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
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Sarmaul
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.07.27 22:24:00 -
[65]
Jenny, no offence but I think you've proven you know **** all about minmatar ships.
8/7/4 and minnies get a nice balanced ship. 8/6/6 and minnies get to save themselves about 140m isk.
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS
- In Rust We Trust - |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.27 22:29:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Jenny, no offence but I think you've proven you know **** all about minmatar ships.
8/7/4 and minnies get a nice balanced ship. 8/6/6 and minnies get to save themselves about 140m isk.
It will have to be 8/7/5 since minnie also wants 20 slots. 
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Tiuwaz
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.27 22:31:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Sarmaul
Jenny, no offence but I think you've proven you know **** all about minmatar ships.
8/7/4 and minnies get a nice balanced ship. 8/6/6 and minnies get to save themselves about 140m isk.
It will have to be 8/7/5 since minnie also wants 20 slots.
well the 20 slots arent confirmed yet, so we have to see about that
Originally by: Oveur
This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
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Capt Rob
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.27 22:54:00 -
[68]
meh this is just an example of minnie getting screwed over once again:/
Deros is *** |
Nafri
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.27 23:02:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Nafri
Problem is, Devs dont want Minmatar to have alphastrike.
So I will fight to get some DPS
Yes they do. Ive read several posts where they mention the alphastrike as typical for minmatar and that its very intended. Right now, Megathron have better dps than tempest at range, tempest has its alphastrike.
I may quote some Dev on this:
me: "Increasing HPs and boosting defence makes minmatar Alphastrike pointless"
Dev: "Thats what we intend"
You can see it basicly with most new minmatar tech1 ships, none got a double damage bonus, although they really could use it
From Dusk till Dawn
Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
Sarmaul
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.07.27 23:04:00 -
[70]
As requested by Jim.
Why The Maelstrom Should Have 7 Mids
Speed Mod
Scrambler
Web
Cap Booster
XL Booster
Invul
Invul
Take away any one of those and it will be gimped. No speed mod and it can't move, no scrambler and things warp away, no web and it can't hit ****, no cap booster and it's cap dies quickly, no booster and it obviously isn't much of a tank, remove one of the Invuls and it has **** resistances.
Shield boost bonus gives it a fancy boost amp to finish off the tank (XL Booster II + Regular Amp = Twin Large Rep II FYI, so the Maelstrom will only be boosting 7.5% more than a regular XL II + Amp setup.
3 Gyros are needed to help make up for it's poor damage output (only slightly better than a tempest). The advantage the tempest has is that it can either slap 2 nos in the last 2 highs and kill the targets tank or fit missile launchers and bump up the DPS.
Next, if the Rokh is based from the Ferox and the Maelstrom is based off the Cyclone, both ships (and their command ship variants) share the same amount of midslots. If they can on the battlecruiser level, why not the battleship level?
The Maelstrom and Rokh are supposed to be dedicated shield tankers. The fact that you need to lose 4 of your mids on close-range ships to begin with sucks enough, but to then try and be an amazing shield tanker with 2 slots isn't going to happen.
8/7/4 (or 8/7/5 if the ships get +1 slot over the tier2) or it will be dead on arrival and will be the butt of many jokes for years to come, much like the Typhoon was before it got boosted.
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS
- In Rust We Trust - |
Sarmaul
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.07.27 23:09:00 -
[71]
Also, regarding fleet engagements nothing would really change
1400mm II x 8
Sensor Booster II x 3
Tracking Computer II x 3
Some form of shield booster
RCU II x 1
Gyrostab II x 1
Assuming it has the fittings to fit all that. If it gets the +1 slot, swap the shield booster for something else and add whatever rep fits in the new low slot.
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS
- In Rust We Trust - |
Andrea Jaruwalski
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.27 23:09:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Sarmaul
As requested by Jim.
Why The Maelstrom Should Have 7 Mids
Speed Mod
Scrambler
Web
Cap Booster
XL Booster
Invul
Invul
Take away any one of those and it will be gimped. No speed mod and it can't move, no scrambler and things warp away, no web and it can't hit ****, no cap booster and it's cap dies quickly, no booster and it obviously isn't much of a tank, remove one of the Invuls and it has **** resistances.
Shield boost bonus gives it a fancy boost amp to finish off the tank (XL Booster II + Regular Amp = Twin Large Rep II FYI, so the Maelstrom will only be boosting 7.5% more than a regular XL II + Amp setup.
3 Gyros are needed to help make up for it's poor damage output (only slightly better than a tempest). The advantage the tempest has is that it can either slap 2 nos in the last 2 highs and kill the targets tank or fit missile launchers and bump up the DPS.
Next, if the Rokh is based from the Ferox and the Maelstrom is based off the Cyclone, both ships (and their command ship variants) share the same amount of midslots. If they can on the battlecruiser level, why not the battleship level?
The Maelstrom and Rokh are supposed to be dedicated shield tankers. The fact that you need to lose 4 of your mids on close-range ships to begin with sucks enough, but to then try and be an amazing shield tanker with 2 slots isn't going to happen.
8/7/4 (or 8/7/5 if the ships get +1 slot over the tier2) or it will be dead on arrival and will be the butt of many jokes for years to come, much like the Typhoon was before it got boosted.
I'll edit your post.
Why The Maelstrom Should Have 7 Mids
Because i want my tier 3 minmatar battleship to be able to solo without giving up on something like the rest of the existing ships in EVE.
Stinkin whiners.
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Sarmaul
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.07.27 23:10:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski
I'll edit your post.
Why The Maelstrom Should Have 7 Mids
Because i want my tier 3 minmatar battleship to be able to solo without giving up on something like the rest of the existing ships in EVE.
Stinkin whiners.
It gives up ECM and NOS.
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS
- In Rust We Trust - |
Elrich Zann
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.27 23:13:00 -
[74]
Grimpak has hit upon something I have thought about. The infamous minmatar versality is hurting the Mael. The Tempest just does well as either a AC or Art ship. Obviously the dev's wanted to give us something we didn't have, a very good tank. However after that it's role is undefined. It should be the long range king to end all, and let the Tempest be the AC king. Therefore both ships should change. The Mael should be a 8/7/4 layout with bounses of 5%/lvl Damage and 10%/level tracking. With only 4 lows you are forced to shield tank it. Leave it slow if need be, but it will give a purpose to all of us who trained for and flew the cyclone. The tempest should be changed (I can't believe I'm saying this) to 5% damage/lvl and 10% falloff/level. Clearly defining a role for both.
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Andrea Jaruwalski
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.27 23:15:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski
I'll edit your post.
Why The Maelstrom Should Have 7 Mids
Because i want my tier 3 minmatar battleship to be able to solo without giving up on something like the rest of the existing ships in EVE.
Stinkin whiners.
It gives up ECM and NOS.
Both are going to get nerfed before/when they come out.
Next point mr.Prime Minmatar whiner?
Oh, hi. It's KilROCK and all you minmatar whiners about your 7 mids are giving me a headache.
If you want to whine about this, Fly a sleipnir and realise you're in the same boat and the difference is, the sleipnir is a t2 ship, with 5 mids, and can't do it all, This Tier3 Can't do it all and you're obviously asking too much.
EVE is a game to play with others, and if you ask for a Tier3 Solo owning machine with 7 mids, well. You seriously are not playing eve (which you aren't playing alot lately for 2-3 months now).
You don't need a scrambler with tacklers, you don't need all that junk to make the ship useful and you sure hell don't need a cookie cutter, ownage machine just because you're ****ed at the world for not having your tempest able to do it all already.
I'm not going to moan until i see the final stats.
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Andrea Jaruwalski
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.27 23:19:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski
Oh, hi. It's KilROCK and all you minmatar whiners about your 7 mids are giving me a headache.
I know who you are
Might I ask if tacklers are the solution, should all close-range armour tanked battleships be given 2-3 mids and 8 lows instead?
You're aware you turned into a complete joke right?
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Sarmaul
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.07.27 23:19:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski
Oh, hi. It's KilROCK and all you minmatar whiners about your 7 mids are giving me a headache.
I know who you are
Might I ask if tacklers are the solution, should all close-range armour tanked battleships be given 2-3 mids and 8 lows instead?
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS
- In Rust We Trust - |
Auron Shadowbane
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Posted - 2006.07.27 23:23:00 -
[78]
it seams that all the short-sighted whiners about caldari beeing gods of mid & shield oversee the big picture.
we have 4 races which form into 2 more or less allied blocks.
amarr&caldari vs minmatar & galente.
we have 2 different types of tanks: shield and armor.
it's only logicall, that if each race has a specialisation in tanking there need to be 2 races with shield and 2 races with armor specialisation.
well the guessing game is easy: if we haave already 2 armor tankers (gal & amarr) and one shield tanker (caldari) the matari will become the 2nd shield tankers.
if you compare amarrian and galente tanks you see that all bs have 7 lows and only one amarr ship has 8 slots. so basically (slot layout wise) the amar/caldari alliance has the better armor tanks.
now look at the current shield tank situation:
minmatar have a 4mid and a 5 med ship while caldari have a 6 med and a 8 med one. totalling to a 9 vs 14 situation again favouring the caldari/amar alliance.
to get some more balance into the slot game we basically need a minmatar ship with at least 1 more mid slot than the best caldari one (as ammars have 1 more low then gals).
the solution is the 8/8/4 mael which effectively gets to 9 mids with its bonus, which is 1 more then the scorp has.
with those 8(9) mids you can mounth the massive tank, you need to fulfill the idea of "boosting more hp than every other non-cap ship" and actually beating com-ships.
you also have to THINK (yeah useing the thing called "brain" is hard for some of us) about the fact, that a ship's balance is not just about slot but also about cpu/pg/capacitor and "hidden stats" like speed, agility and mass.
after all minmatar are the best suited race for a all-out tank ship since their weapons really favour it in terms of capacitor AND game balance as they don't take cap but have crappy dps and tracking (speaking about long range).
last but not least, ECM will be fixed/nerved to hell and therefore those 8 mids can not be abused to get a matari scorp.
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Sarmaul
0utbreak
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Posted - 2006.07.27 23:25:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski
Oh, hi. It's KilROCK and all you minmatar whiners about your 7 mids are giving me a headache.
I know who you are
Might I ask if tacklers are the solution, should all close-range armour tanked battleships be given 2-3 mids and 8 lows instead?
You're aware you turned into a complete joke right?
If your argument is that a battleship shouldn't be given enough mids to tackle as you should bring support then the point still stands. Why should one type of ship be able to fit the 4 main mid mods and a full tank or partial tank/gank yet another type of ship can't?
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS
- In Rust We Trust - |
Azerrad
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Posted - 2006.07.27 23:25:00 -
[80]
I really don't understand this Caldari lobby that is convinced that 8/7/5 on the Maelstrom is overpowered, but 8/7/5 on the Rohk is perfectly acceptable.
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Isonkon Serikain
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.27 23:26:00 -
[81]
You know what I'm just gonna train t2 hybrids, that way I'll be able to kick butt close range in a hyperion or grab a rokh and snipe... I have a feeling its pointless to hope for change in Minmatar battleships. They will be decent, but never the best at anything, except maybe speed. 
Ison's notches
more notches |
Andrea Jaruwalski
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.27 23:29:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski
Oh, hi. It's KilROCK and all you minmatar whiners about your 7 mids are giving me a headache.
I know who you are
Might I ask if tacklers are the solution, should all close-range armour tanked battleships be given 2-3 mids and 8 lows instead?
You're aware you turned into a complete joke right?
If your argument is that a battleship shouldn't be given enough mids to tackle as you should bring support then the point still stands. Why should one type of ship be able to fit the 4 main mid mods and a full tank or partial tank/gank yet another type of ship can't?
Fly a sleipnir and you'll know, until then. You're mostly clueless about what is a 'solo ownage machine'.
You can't do it all and that's bassicly what you're asking, even with your 7 mids, it's still a mediocre tank. You don't even know if it has cargo for a decent number of cap boosters, ammo.
You don't even know if it has speed to make it a decent autocannons platform.
Bassicly, you're speculating and asking for a flawed design of what you think is a good ship.
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Too Kind
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Posted - 2006.07.27 23:34:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Damion Zyne
Ok, lets see what we have.
The Mael looks like to be designed to cater Mission runner needs, so we maybe should start to discuss with this in mind. Why it is a mission runner?
Hope that doesn't happen. I didn't train tech-2 large projectiles and minmatar BS 5 to get something that's isn't really good at anything in pvp.
Especially, I don't need a mission runner gift, since I can jump into a raven at any time, if I want that.
The only thing matters is the usefullness in PvP.
This is where you need to push your ship to the limits and where the stats decide, if you can compete or in other words it decides between living or dying.
NPC'ing, well, doesn't really matter, if I can kill NPCs slightly easier or not. Don't need a new ship for that. NPC'ing is no role, it's a bonus. PvP is all that matters.
--------------------------
Post with your main !!!111 |
Tiuwaz
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.27 23:34:00 -
[84]
are seriously comparing a ship with t2 resists with a ship with t1 resists? give mael sleipnir resists and i am happy with even 5 med slots
Originally by: Oveur
This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
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Andrea Jaruwalski
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.27 23:35:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Tiuwaz
are seriously comparing a ship with t2 resists with a ship with t1 resists? give mael sleipnir resists and i am happy with even 5 med slots
I'm comparing a ship that has a good tank, that can use autocannons, and a XL shield booster with a Tier 3 Battleship.
Yes, got a problem with that? Compare both ships and you'll be amazed. Or well, Try to compare a Cyclone to it.
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Tiuwaz
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.27 23:41:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski
Originally by: Tiuwaz
are seriously comparing a ship with t2 resists with a ship with t1 resists? give mael sleipnir resists and i am happy with even 5 med slots
I'm comparing a ship that has a good tank, that can use autocannons, and a XL shield booster with a Tier 3 Battleship.
Yes, got a problem with that? Compare both ships and you'll be amazed. Or well, Try to compare a Cyclone to it.
and i still say give mael sleipnir resist and i walk away with 5 meds, i am also curious about how 7 slots on a rokh are oke but not on mael?
besides i dont think the mael will ever be an ac boat, judgin from tux's blog and taking the old sisi tier3 BS stats as an indication on how they want it to be
Originally by: Oveur
This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
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Damion Zyne
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Posted - 2006.07.27 23:42:00 -
[87]
Well like I said its a wasted new mission runner, but still it looks like one.
Ac-Pest stays the prefered close range minnie ship even when there are better ones. Mael beeing too slow, dmg output problems with nos etc.
For sniping we dont get anything really better than the pest, with a pretty wasted active shield tanking bonus.
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Andrea Jaruwalski
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.27 23:44:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Tiuwaz
Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski
Originally by: Tiuwaz
are seriously comparing a ship with t2 resists with a ship with t1 resists? give mael sleipnir resists and i am happy with even 5 med slots
I'm comparing a ship that has a good tank, that can use autocannons, and a XL shield booster with a Tier 3 Battleship.
Yes, got a problem with that? Compare both ships and you'll be amazed. Or well, Try to compare a Cyclone to it.
and i still say give mael sleipnir resist and i walk away with 5 meds, i am also curious about how 7 slots on a rokh are oke but not on mael?
besides i dont think the mael will ever be an ac boat, judgin from tux's blog and taking the old sisi tier3 BS stats as an indication on how they want it to be
You're in a hurry to post crap i think.
The problem is, Most Caldari pilots won't even try to solo ownage fit it, since oh well, they got a raven.
Blaster wise? It will still lack the same things.
They'll always have to cut somewhere.
They haven't realised it yet or just don't speculate like all the minmatar idiots.
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Kaylana Syi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.27 23:45:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Eximius Josari
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
/JMT 8/6/6
You sure are doing a lot of trolling lately.
Anyway, I like the Maelstrom's bonus sofar, Amarr after all armor tank which is least effective against us. 7 midslots would be great, finally taking the Caldari domination of them away.
Minmatar are primarily shield tankers, despite the lack of slots for it in most of our tech I ships.
Not trolling. I dont troll. Dont even know what troll is. I have discussed many times and dont really want to repeat them again. 8/6/6 should be for Maelstorm.
Maelstrom with 8/6/6 is a fleet tempest that I wouldn't fly... ever. It would be so depressing. I'd pay 600mil for a fleet tempest before I'd touch a Maelstrom. Cyclone is 8/5/4 and I'd probably fly that more than the Maelstrom.
Team Minmatar
Carriers need Clone Vats
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Azerrad
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Posted - 2006.07.27 23:47:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski
Originally by: Tiuwaz
Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski
Originally by: Tiuwaz
are seriously comparing a ship with t2 resists with a ship with t1 resists? give mael sleipnir resists and i am happy with even 5 med slots
I'm comparing a ship that has a good tank, that can use autocannons, and a XL shield booster with a Tier 3 Battleship.
Yes, got a problem with that? Compare both ships and you'll be amazed. Or well, Try to compare a Cyclone to it.
and i still say give mael sleipnir resist and i walk away with 5 meds, i am also curious about how 7 slots on a rokh are oke but not on mael?
besides i dont think the mael will ever be an ac boat, judgin from tux's blog and taking the old sisi tier3 BS stats as an indication on how they want it to be
You're in a hurry to post crap i think.
The problem is, Most Caldari pilots won't even try to solo ownage fit it, since oh well, they got a raven.
Blaster wise? It will still lack the same things.
They'll always have to cut somewhere.
They haven't realised it yet or just don't speculate like all the minmatar idiots.
Simple question: Would the Rohk be overpowered with 8/7/5 or not?
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