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Jim McGregor
Caldari
   |
Posted - 2006.07.28 09:47:00 -
[181]
Will the tier 3 ship have extra slots?
Tier 1
Typhoon - 8/4/7 - 19 slots
Armageddon - 8/3/8 - 19 slots
Dominix - 6/5/7 - 18 slots
Scorpion - 6/8/4 - 16 slots
Tier 2
Tempest - 8/5/6 - 19 slots
Raven - 8/6/5 - 19 slots
Megathron - 8/4/7 - 19 slots
Apocalypse - 8/4/7 - 19 slots
Looking at this, Im not so sure. 6 of these ships have 19 slots. Then we have the EW platform (Scorp) and the droneboat (Dominix) which both are special. I dont think we are guaranteed more than 19 slots. The tier 3 ships are not supposed to be a better Tempest or whatever, they are supposed to be different to what we already have. Thats why tier 2 didnt replace tier 1, and thats why tier 3 wont replace tier 2/1 either.
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Andrea Jaruwalski
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.28 09:48:00 -
[182]
 Originally by: Testy Mctest
http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=297
Maelstrom discussion thread without the trolls.
Your forum gives me headaches and rips my eyes out.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.28 09:50:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?t=297
Maelstrom discussion thread without the trolls.
Yeah, i might register there later. Its just a shame Tuxford doesnt read those forums, so even if we come to some good conclusion, we will have to repeat our reasoning here over and over and over again later... 
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Pesadel0
|
Posted - 2006.07.28 10:04:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski
Edited by: Andrea Jaruwalski on 28/07/2006 00:29:24
Originally by: Tiuwaz
i am well aware that there are very specific situation where it could be beneficial, but this would restrict this BS to a way too much specialzed role
It will only be a specific role if it goes for 8/7/5, if it's slow, if it has ****ty cargo.
6/6 Gives it ability to armor tank and use that massive powergrid it will have if it's slow and has powergrid to make it a arty oriented platform.
It will still be crap anyways. So why bother? You have to make a choice in th end..
All i see is people dreaming of a Solo ownage machine without looking at the Artilery side of it.
There's many points in a ship that might change the way you'll fit it out, and those are informations you don't EVEN have.
Maybe all you'd need right now to give suggestion is the current stats of the ship that they had in mind till now.
I can tell you one thing ,i dont want another crappy ship,and this ship with 8/6/6 with the same bonus IS a POS ,no matter how many "crazy" setups you invent to it will be a crappy tier3 compared to the other BS.
ECM going to be balanced,Snipers are going to be nerfed,lol this ship is not bringing anything new to the matari pilots with this slot layout and bonus.
I prefer the 8/6/6 with another bonus ,for me they could of have gone the other way a fast BS the big stabber ideia is the best ,but that is my personal opinion.
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.07.28 10:05:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski
Your forum gives me headaches and rips my eyes out.
Your posts gives me headaches and rips my eyes out.
Originally by: Lord Violent
EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid being catered to by devs, as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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Andrea Jaruwalski
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.28 10:21:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski
Your forum gives me headaches and rips my eyes out.
Your posts gives me headaches and rips my eyes out.
My posts you can ignore, your forum colors are just THERE 
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.28 10:31:00 -
[187]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 28/07/2006 10:34:43
Autocannon setup based on 8/7/4 slot layout.
Ok, this is just a suggestion for a autocannon setup that will use the ships current bonuses. It has tackling gear because I dont see a reason to use autocannons anywhere else but in pvp. Of course you could try it on some missions, but i think it will be a real pain with the huge ammo consumtion, the problems getting in range etc.
* 5% large projectile weapon rate of fire per level
* 7.5% shield boost amount per level
High slots (8)
8x autocannons (type depends on amount of grid/cpu and how well the rest of the setup fits)
Medium slots (7)
(1)MWD
(2)Web
(3)Warp disruptor
OK, here we see the problems with trying to use a shield tanked ship with autocannons for tackling and tanking at the same time. You need MWD/web/warp disruptor and that leaves you 4 slots for tanking. Not enough.
(4)Cap injector
(5)XLarge Shield booster
(6)EM hardener
(7)Invulnerability field II
This tank absolutely sucks and its basicly suicide to attack another battleship with this. Yet you need all these 4 things on it, and the ship is screaming its not enough. Fine, we'll have to do it the ECM way.
(4) Multispectral
(5) Multispectral
(6) Multispectral
(7) Eccm/multispectral
Low slots (4)
2 damage mods
2 nanofibers/overdrives (will give it a decent base speed even though it still will act like a pregnant elephant)
Conclusion
This is not the solo pwnmobile you are looking for. Personally, I think it sucks as a solo pvp autocannon ship and will use the Tempest instead. ECM saves it, but once the ECM nerf is coming, it probably wont be good to have a setup like this. God help us trying to use this ship as a shielded autocannon platform in solo pvp without ECM...it sucks.
You either need tacklers to use this ship as a pvp autocannon setup, or use ECM.
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Andrea Jaruwalski
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.28 10:35:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 28/07/2006 10:31:36
Autocannon setup based on 8/7/4 slot layout.
Ok, this is just a suggestion for a autocannon setup that will use the ships current bonuses. It has tackling gear because I dont see a reason to use autocannons anywhere else but in pvp. Of course you could try it on some missions, but i think it will be a real pain with the huge ammo consumtion, the problems getting in range etc.
* 5% large projectile weapon rate of fire per level
* 7.5% shield boost amount per level
High slots (8)
8x autocannons (type depends on amount of grid/cpu and how well the rest of the setup fits)
Medium slots (7)
(1)MWD
(2)Web
(3)Warp disruptor
OK, here we see the problems with trying to use a shield tanked ship with autocannons for tackling and tanking at the same time. You need MWD/web/warp disruptor and that leaves you 4 slots for tanking. Not enough.
(4)Cap injector
(5)XLarge Shield booster
(6)EM hardener
(7)Invulnerability field II
This tank absolutely sucks and its basicly suicide to attack another battleship with this. Yet you need all these 4 things on it, and the ship is screaming its not enough. Fine, we'll have to do it the ECM way.
(4) Multispectral
(5) Multispectral
(6) Multispectral
(7) Eccm/multispectral
Low slots (4)
2 damage mods
2 nanofibers/overdrives (will give it a decent base speed even though it still will act like a pregnant elephant)
Personally, I think this is a boring setup and I wouldnt use it. Once the ECM nerf is coming, it probably wont be good to even have a setup like this. God help us trying to use this ship as a autocannon platform in solo pvp without ECM...it sucks.
Why suggest it since it's obviously ****?
And oh, Overdrive reduce your cargo, and with ****ty 1 EM + invul, you want to make sure you got a damage control in your lows.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.28 10:38:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski
Why suggest it since it's obviously ****?
And oh, Overdrive reduce your cargo, and with ****ty 1 EM + invul, you want to make sure you got a damage control in your lows.
Just wanted to make the point it will absolutely suck when used that way. And yes, I agree with the damage control. Ill switch one of the nanofibers for it.
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Andrea Jaruwalski
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.28 10:40:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski
Why suggest it since it's obviously ****?
And oh, Overdrive reduce your cargo, and with ****ty 1 EM + invul, you want to make sure you got a damage control in your lows.
Just wanted to make the point it will absolutely suck when used that way. And yes, I agree with the damage control. Ill switch one of the nanofibers for it.
I think what you meant is... I HOPE IT DOESN'T HAVE ****TY SPEED BECAUSE I WOULD BE AN IDIOT FOR FITTING A NANOFIBER ON IT!
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.28 10:43:00 -
[191]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 28/07/2006 10:43:14
Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski
I think what you meant is... I HOPE IT DOESN'T HAVE ****TY SPEED BECAUSE I WOULD BE AN IDIOT FOR FITTING A NANOFIBER ON IT!
It will be a slow ship, as stated by Tuxford. You dont have to use the nanofiber, use something else. The ship will still suck.
Edit: Please post your own setup instead of acting like a 13 year old kid.
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Sarmaul
0utbreak
|
Posted - 2006.07.28 10:46:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski
Your forum gives me headaches and rips my eyes out.
Your posts gives me headaches and rips my eyes out.
My posts you can ignore, your forum colors are just THERE
You get used to the burning sensation after a while :P
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS
- In Rust We Trust - |
Andrea Jaruwalski
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.28 10:47:00 -
[193]
Edited by: Andrea Jaruwalski on 28/07/2006 10:49:11
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 28/07/2006 10:43:14
Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski
I think what you meant is... I HOPE IT DOESN'T HAVE ****TY SPEED BECAUSE I WOULD BE AN IDIOT FOR FITTING A NANOFIBER ON IT!
It will be a slow ship, as stated by Tuxford. You dont have to use the nanofiber, use something else. The ship will still suck.
Edit: Please post your own setup instead of acting like a 13 year old kid.
I don't post my setups and i never speculate things or make setups speculating stats or dreaming about them.
Let's speculate and say. If it's slow, Barrage L gives me enough range and Hail just makes me crappier. Let's say my cargo is small, screw mwd since i'll need my large capacitor to boost alot more and save Cap boosters from being injected alot more often, so afterburner it is! Let's say the ship isn't made for Autocannons, Well that's no problem since all my battleships suck!
13 year old? Sorry, but i'd rather act like a 13 year old than a speculating retard using a 2006 alt that is 5 month old to act like i know what i'm talking about.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.28 10:53:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski
I don't post my setups and i never speculate things or make setups speculating stats or dreaming about them.
Let's speculate and say. If it's slow, Barrage L gives me enough range and Hail just makes me crappier. Let's say my cargo is small, screw mwd since i'll need my large capacitor to boost alot more, so afterburner it is! Let's say the ship isn't made for Autocannons, Well that's no problem since all my battleships suck!
13 year old? Sorry, but i'd rather act like a 13 year old than a speculating retard using a 2006 alt that is 5 month old to act like i know what i'm talking about.
Ah you dont post your setups.. just here to flame everybody and derail the thread completely then? Oh, and also act like you are smarter than everybody else? Wow. Thats really impressive. You look like a complete idiot to me, but have fun. 
You dont post setups because you are afraid what people will think of them. You are a coward with a big mouth. Thats the sad truth of it. You have done nothing in this thread but to be really, really negative and complain about your stupid headaches...
And this is not the alt you are looking for.
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Andrea Jaruwalski
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.28 10:58:00 -
[195]
Edited by: Andrea Jaruwalski on 28/07/2006 10:59:47
Don't worry, you won't find any of my ships fitted like crap, with nanofibers or a massive abuse of ECM.
And about being constructive in a topic that has no meaning, well. Geez, I won't.
Or i could be like you, Repeat the same thing in 6-7 different topic, voicing the same idiotic opinion over and over and actually think i'm doing something decent to help things.
And I'm not looking for your main, but i have a good hunch it's not the brightess one.
Also, I don't need opinions. All my ships setup have been tested, used, tested till perfection some more. Who's being a coward when you just don't care what people think? Kill me, Find out on your own what my ship have fitted. Then you can talk about it.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.28 10:59:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Andrea Jaruwalski
And I'm not looking for your main, but i have a good hunch it's not the brightess one.
Right.
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Incub
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.07.28 11:19:00 -
[197]
Edited by: Incub on 28/07/2006 11:19:16
i dont know why people are lobying for a Damage instead of a ROF bonus.
i dont really want to do the math BUT
A rof bonus is a 33% bonus to DPS with lvl 5
against a 25% increase in dps when its a pure damage bonus.
its a nice long range ship, just ditch the shieldboost bonus for something else.
i made some suggestions earlier about this
250's are definitely more versatile, but All the cool kids are using 280's. |
Andrea Jaruwalski
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.28 11:21:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Incub
Edited by: Incub on 28/07/2006 11:19:16
i dont know why people are lobying for a Damage instead of a ROF bonus.
i dont really want to do the math BUT
A rof bonus is a 33% bonus to DPS with lvl 5
against a 25% increase in dps when its a pure damage bonus.
its a nice long range ship, just ditch the shieldboost bonus for something else.
i made some suggestions earlier about this
Maybe it has something to do with the fact it's been annonced as a slow ship, which kinda kills the purpose of using it as a Autocannon platform, maybe because 1400mm II have crappy clips and 8 1400mm II do give out a nice alpha strike with a 5% damage bonus as opposed to deal higher DPS with a ROF bonus.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.28 11:24:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Incub
Edited by: Incub on 28/07/2006 11:19:16
i dont know why people are lobying for a Damage instead of a ROF bonus.
i dont really want to do the math BUT
A rof bonus is a 33% bonus to DPS with lvl 5
against a 25% increase in dps when its a pure damage bonus.
its a nice long range ship, just ditch the shieldboost bonus for something else.
i made some suggestions earlier about this
Yep, switching ROF to DMG means lower dps but higher alphastrike. Personally i think that if this ship is supposed to be a slow artillery ship, it should have a feared alphastrike. 8 turrets with 25% DMG means 10 effective turrets, which would make it very minmatar in my opinion. If ccp wants to make it a alphastrike boat, they should make it a proper one.
But its all just suggestions to get a discussion going about it.
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SengH
Black Omega Security
E.R.A
|
Posted - 2006.07.28 11:25:00 -
[200]
Heres a new argument, what if CCP made it similar to the destroyers in that they severely nerfed ROF but signficantly upped the damage and falloff. Thus making autocannons a viable mid range weapon.
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.07.28 11:32:00 -
[201]
Edited by: Testy Mctest on 28/07/2006 11:32:20
If you're going to put forward ideas for this ship, I suggest:
forgetting changing the bonuses
forgetting changing other ships to balance this one
proposing to alter stats and such based on the old sisi model, to make it a better/more balanced ship
Anything else is almost pointless, as it's not what the devs are looking for as suggestions, afaic.
Originally by: Lord Violent
EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid being catered to by devs, as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.28 11:33:00 -
[202]
Originally by: SengH
Heres a new argument, what if CCP made it similar to the destroyers in that they severely nerfed ROF but signficantly upped the damage and falloff. Thus making autocannons a viable mid range weapon.
Well, that would make the autocannon work like faster artillery i guess (lets say a rof of 4-5 seconds?). With the tracking of autocannons, it would become very powerful and not need any tracking computers either. Possibly overpowered, depending on the bonuses it would get of course.
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Omega Bloodstone
|
Posted - 2006.07.28 11:35:00 -
[203]
Originally by: SengH
Heres a new argument, what if CCP made it similar to the destroyers in that they severely nerfed ROF but signficantly upped the damage and falloff. Thus making autocannons a viable mid range weapon.
Ohh please god no. Same as a destroyer with a -25% rate of fire. With 1400 II's that would just be ugly horrible. And with AC's it would kill the fact that they were AC's. AC's fireing as slow as blasters...negatron batman...negatron. This would not be good lol.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.28 11:35:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Edited by: Testy Mctest on 28/07/2006 11:32:20
If you're going to put forward ideas for this ship, I suggest:
forgetting changing the bonuses
forgetting changing other ships to balance this one
proposing to alter stats and such based on the old sisi model, to make it a better/more balanced ship
Anything else is almost pointless, as it's not what the devs are looking for as suggestions, afaic.
Yep, thats what ive been doing. Conclusion is that it sucks as a solo autocannon pvp platform, but that it can have a role as a medium artillery platform if it gets 7 medium slots.
Either way, I dont really like this ship. Its too limited to do just one thing, and it doesnt even do that one properly (artillery boat) with a ROF bonus instead of DMG.
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Omega Bloodstone
|
Posted - 2006.07.28 11:38:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Testy Mctest
Edited by: Testy Mctest on 28/07/2006 11:32:20
If you're going to put forward ideas for this ship, I suggest:
forgetting changing the bonuses
forgetting changing other ships to balance this one
proposing to alter stats and such based on the old sisi model, to make it a better/more balanced ship
Anything else is almost pointless, as it's not what the devs are looking for as suggestions, afaic.
Yep, thats what ive been doing. Conclusion is that it sucks as a solo autocannon pvp platform, but that it can have a role as a medium artillery platform if it gets 7 medium slots.
Either way, I dont really like this ship. Its too limited to do just one thing, and it doesnt even do that one properly (artillery boat) with a ROF bonus instead of DMG.
I have to agree. The damage bonus is more desired. 8=10 turrets basically. Alpha-monster. I could see fun in that.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.28 11:40:00 -
[206]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 28/07/2006 11:41:26
Originally by: Omega Bloodstone
I have to agree. The damage bonus is more desired. 8=10 turrets basically. Alpha-monster. I could see fun in that.
Yes. CCP needs to make this boat good at something. Make it special. Tuxford mentioned the amount of shield it can boost per second as one of its strengths, but thats meaningless. Both Abaddon and Rokh gets +25% resistances instead, which is even better than +25% boosting. This boat is not the best at anything.
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SengH
Black Omega Security
E.R.A
|
Posted - 2006.07.28 11:43:00 -
[207]
Edited by: SengH on 28/07/2006 11:44:09
Originally by: Omega Bloodstone
Originally by: SengH
Heres a new argument, what if CCP made it similar to the destroyers in that they severely nerfed ROF but signficantly upped the damage and falloff. Thus making autocannons a viable mid range weapon.
Ohh please god no. Same as a destroyer with a -25% rate of fire. With 1400 II's that would just be ugly horrible. And with AC's it would kill the fact that they were AC's. AC's fireing as slow as blasters...negatron batman...negatron. This would not be good lol.
Eh? If it had a big dmg + falloff bonus (Conservative guesstimating around +10% per level) but a -25% ROF penalty, how would that make artys suck?
This would act as a perfect counter to the rohk when equipped with 1400s and for ACs would push it out to being a viable midrange wpn.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.28 11:52:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Omega Bloodstone
a -25% rof on artilleries is nuts. They already have the slowest rate of fire. Man those rails would just pwn the hell out of a ship fireing arties at -25% on a BS vs BS scale. You would never break the tank. If there was a miner boosting tank it would be futile to try and break it. Just cant get arties slower.
He means autocannons. Slow their fire down, increase their range and damage.
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Omega Bloodstone
|
Posted - 2006.07.28 11:54:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Omega Bloodstone
a -25% rof on artilleries is nuts. They already have the slowest rate of fire. Man those rails would just pwn the hell out of a ship fireing arties at -25% on a BS vs BS scale. You would never break the tank. If there was a miner boosting tank it would be futile to try and break it. Just cant get arties slower.
He means autocannons. Slow their fire down, increase their range and damage.
"Eh? If it had a big dmg + falloff bonus (Conservative guesstimating around +10% per level) but a -25% ROF penalty, how would that make artys suck?"
He made that above comment. I dont see a question there. Its not how. It would just suck lol
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SengH
Black Omega Security
E.R.A
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Posted - 2006.07.28 11:56:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Omega Bloodstone
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Omega Bloodstone
a -25% rof on artilleries is nuts. They already have the slowest rate of fire. Man those rails would just pwn the hell out of a ship fireing arties at -25% on a BS vs BS scale. You would never break the tank. If there was a miner boosting tank it would be futile to try and break it. Just cant get arties slower.
He means autocannons. Slow their fire down, increase their range and damage.
"Eh? If it had a big dmg + falloff bonus (Conservative guesstimating around +10% per level) but a -25% ROF penalty, how would that make artys suck?"
He made that above comment. I dont see a question there. Its not how. It would just suck lol
The reason why i didnt put in something crazy like +20% dmg because can you imagine the alpha strike with howies fitted? It was a random guesstimate number that would probably need some major tweaking to find a good balance.
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