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The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 14:41:00 - [31] We have apologized again and again, and it does nothing. Why? Because their argument is a sham. If they really cared about Smoske, they would have simply kept silent about their dead friend and crushed the Swarm, rather than waving his name all over the forums for his father to see. The vendetta would be accomplished and the honored dead wouldn't be publically dragged into a squabble over internet turf in internet space. If they really cared about Remedial, they would have crushed the Swarm ages ago, rather than waiting until the final battle of XZH to intervene. If they really cared about Tetsujin, they would have accepted his apology, Cefte's formal apology, and Tet's kicking. This is all spin and lies, and transparent to boot. Regardless of that, once again, we apologize for any offense we may have caused. We'll apologize, even if you're likely to throw it in our face yet again and persist in your ludicrous, shameful pretext for war.
Pergly Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 14:42:00 - [32] Edited by: Pergly on 28/07/2006 14:45:34 Originally by: Pr1at Bunny To the EvE Community , To the rest of EvE : Think twice before you start using certain language , smacktalk in general .. ok but think twice every now and then before you say something and donÆt let turn this ONLINE INGAME WAR into another one filled with true hatred and disgust , extreme accusations and what not .. its simply not worth it , it isnÆt . This was the point. Please PLEASE don't make this into yet another BoB vs Goons-thread. Too late...
Calenth Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 14:48:00 - [33] Edited by: Calenth on 28/07/2006 14:49:07 Edited by: Calenth on 28/07/2006 14:48:17 Originally by: Rebellion Calenth, you didn't say anything offensive at a public place until that debacle in local. In fact, the goons were quite sociable. But then we found out what your membership really thought. It made all of the nice words and apologies hypocritical.. What our membership really thought was "BoB is slandering us, so we'll ** them off." They were saying whatever they could to you off, it wasn't sincere. That doesn't excuse it, and that doesn't mean it's ok, but it does explain. A lot of goons are just really ed off by what they see as BoB's transparently hypocritical motivations to slander us, whether to persuade our allies to sluice away, to motivate BoB's internal membership to attack us by getting everyone to think "RA RA GOONS EVIL,", or whatever. But really, the way a lot of our members see it. . . To a lot of goons, this whole mess seems like shallow, unbelievable hypocrisy, someone claiming they were going to beat our mario cart score to avenge their fallen comrades. So, after the fact, some of those goons are going to start doing really offensive things just to take the ** out of people they see as hypocrites. I'm not excusing that or condoning it, but I think explaining it illustrates an important point: if BoB leadership had kept this off the forums, had not dragged their dead friend's memory across this website like a bloody flag, and/or had accepted the sincere apologies offered, things wouldn't have snowballed into the rolling drama bomb they have. Unfortunately when people start pressing buttons, other people press back. I dunno. Maybe "he started it" is a silly argument. But I really feel that if the BoB leadership had acted more maturely this entire situation could have been avoided and a lot fewer people's feelings, on both sides of the aisle, would have gotten hurt.
Max Teranous Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.07.28 14:51:00 - [34] Here we go again........ /me grabs the popcorn. Max
Terdarius	Posted - 2006.07.28 14:51:00 - [35] Ok this might sound harsh but as a neutral observer I have to say this. If a person gets a depression in RL because of some random people swearing at said person in a game, then it's probably a good thing that they quit. TBH I really could care less about this whole thing, but that's just me.
Snowden Vel GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 14:52:00 - [36] Edited by: Snowden Vel on 28/07/2006 14:54:51 Originally by: Dekiri I don't think you are the problem here Tetsujin it is the general attitude within the swarm that is apparently the problem. For every Swarm member that makes an offensive joke, there's 200-300 of us avoiding that kind of behavior, so if you're trying to base assumptions about our general attitude upon the words of a tiny minority you're completely wrong.
Calenth Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 14:52:00 - [37] Originally by: Pr1at Bunny I DONT pick sides I DONT wave a flag at any of you I JUST hope as this situation is somewhat comparable it wouldnt turn out into teh same problems as back then and its a post also ment for the all of teh EvE Players to THINK about . Fair enough. I just wanted to make sure you knew.
News Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.28 14:52:00 - [38] Originally by: Pr1at Bunny I hope the Mods in here would like to either lock this post and keep it or sticky it for a few days for everyone to read in hope to keep the spirit normal or at least keep it in a civil discussion . Mods, please give this man his wish and at least lock this before it turns into another horrid flamefest. Clash, well spoken.
Calenth Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 14:55:00 - [39] Originally by: News Originally by: Pr1at Bunny I hope the Mods in here would like to either lock this post and keep it or sticky it for a few days for everyone to read in hope to keep the spirit normal or at least keep it in a civil discussion . Mods, please give this man his wish and at least lock this before it turns into another horrid flamefest. Clash, well spoken. Eh, one way or another there's going to be a thread on this. This one is staying reasonably polite, comparatively speaking.
Ismern GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 14:56:00 - [40] Originally by: Snowden Vel Edited by: Snowden Vel on 28/07/2006 14:54:51 Originally by: Dekiri I don't think you are the problem here Tetsujin it is the general attitude within the swarm that is apparently the problem. For every Swarm member that makes an offensive joke, there's 200-300 of us avoiding that kind of behavior, so if you're trying to base assumptions about our general attitude upon the words of a tiny minority you're completely wrong. This. ----------------------------------------------------------- "It's not that I'm lazy . . . It's that I just don't care."
Thud Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 14:58:00 - [41] Originally by: Pr1at Bunny To the EvE Community , To the rest of EvE : Think twice before you start using certain language , smacktalk in general .. ok but think twice every now and then before you say something and donÆt let turn this ONLINE INGAME WAR into another one filled with true hatred and disgust , extreme accusations and what not .. its simply not worth it , it isnÆt . A bit late hm? Rededial and his goons startet making fun about dead people a year ago. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=219892 They never stopt it. They made bad jokes about many people that died in accidents,not only one. They made jokes about dead freinds and now you want us to just say "ok,no problem,just dont do it again (they will do it again btw) and we forget about this."? Would you forget it if someone would make bad jokes about a frined that died?
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 14:59:00 - [42] Originally by: Ismern Originally by: Snowden Vel Edited by: Snowden Vel on 28/07/2006 14:54:51 Originally by: Dekiri I don't think you are the problem here Tetsujin it is the general attitude within the swarm that is apparently the problem. For every Swarm member that makes an offensive joke, there's 200-300 of us avoiding that kind of behavior, so if you're trying to base assumptions about our general attitude upon the words of a tiny minority you're completely wrong. This. From the flip side that doesn't make policy (only the ceos do that) all I can say is this: 1 - great post, since GF joined EVE I've been impressed, none more so than since you lifted your posting ban. 2 - I don't care, we're gonna kill you anyway. The why no longer matters. See you later ;)
Christopher Multsanti Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.07.28 14:59:00 - [43] Originally by: Calenth Originally by: News Originally by: Pr1at Bunny I hope the Mods in here would like to either lock this post and keep it or sticky it for a few days for everyone to read in hope to keep the spirit normal or at least keep it in a civil discussion . Mods, please give this man his wish and at least lock this before it turns into another horrid flamefest. Clash, well spoken. Eh, one way or another there's going to be a thread on this. This one is staying reasonably polite, comparatively speaking. These things should not be discussed on the Eve Online forums. Please stop now. <Kurenin> Oh hello Christopher Exploitisanti!
Zarimax Mishka GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 15:00:00 - [44] Originally by: KSUDruid I personally don't really care about the sig you made about smoske, I don't personally care about the speech entitled 'the final solution' and I'm not offended by the stuff ya'll like to spew in local. I DO take issue though when you're trying to turn this game I love into your own little land of somethingawful, and that's why I slept quite well last night with the knoweledge that my friends in my Alliance are putting all of our plans for the forseeable future on hold, to break the Goons. LetÆs see if BoB is capable of uniting to persecute people who read SomethingAwful.com as opposed to uniting to answer calls of revenge stemming from a trumped-up feeling of righteous indignation. BoB is capable of many things, but I think that is a stretch even for them.
Calenth Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 15:01:00 - [45] Edited by: Calenth on 28/07/2006 15:02:23 Originally by: Dianabolic From the flip side that doesn't make policy (only the ceos do that) all I can say is this: 1 - great post, since GF joined EVE I've been impressed, none more so than since you lifted your posting ban. 2 - I don't care, we're gonna kill you anyway. The why no longer matters. See you later ;) Wish you'd all taken that attitude from the start. See you in game.
Rebellion Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 15:01:00 - [46] Let me get this straight. BoB acted immaturely? You're blaming us for the retardation that your members are showing? They do it because we provoke them? We have to apologize to people because what we said made your membership angry enough that they show to the world what sort of immature *****s they realy are? What sort of absurdity is this? Apologies won't cut it this time. GoonFleet has basically showed everyone that even if they apologize publically, or act decently publically, there are things that happen in their forums that show what they realy are. And that's people who think they are entitled to acting like social degenerates and be immunte to criticism and consequences. No one can trust you.
Kazou Kiriyama Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.07.28 15:02:00 - [47] It's pretty obvious at this point that several high-ranking Goons have tried to defuse the situation, but it's already been taken personally and unfortunately when you're at the head of a group of 2,800 people it's basically impossible to control everyone. I used to be an SA Goon back in the day so I know what the forums can be like, and what the general attitude is. Goons haven't helped in the last day with the antics on XZH local last night (apologised for and apparently dealt with by Goon command), or with the forum spamming and deliberate wind-ups by several of their members. The Goon complaint seems to be about GS being tarred with the same brush for the actions of a few - the trouble is, because of the Goon background, and because of the large number of people in the alliance who mostly share the same origins, a signification proportion of them do actually find all of this funny, including the sick jokes and the rest. Yes, they believe in "Freedom of speech" as it applies to being able to say whatever they want but frankly that's an incredibly childish point of view, one that suggests poor social ability. The "e-rage" and "internet space game" comments are again off-base - we're all people paying fees to play this game, we're all geeks online, and we're all horribly obsessed with EVE. So attempting to brush off the more abhorrent behaviour as simply "humour" because it's "just an internet space game" is frankly ridiculous. It may be the case that BoB has horribly overreacted to this; perhaps they resented GS to begin with and it didn't take much to tip them over the edge. Perhaps it IS a smokescreen (although I'm not of that opinion). Ideally we'd like to see this kind of personal, nasty edge not being a feature of EVE, but let's face it we've all played games where there's been people who've royally annoyed us, and people who's ingame destruction we've taken great pleasure from. This post is rambling a bit, so I'll get to the point: I don't believe Goons deserve outright condemnation, and I do think that several of their members have done a very good job of trying to explain their position. However, I do think that a lot of them have a "SA Goon attitude" which frankly stinks and has no place in this game or on these forums, which is why the alliance as a whole is getting a slating. On the flipside, BoB have been backed into a corner where it's very hard for them to de-escalate the situation even though it would probably be for the best (taking things this personally is never good). Please remember, a game is a game but you're still playing with real people and your actions should reflect that. End preaching. Hope you guys have a good fight (lag permitting )
Armois Delgato GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 15:02:00 - [48] Originally by: Dianabolic From the flip side that doesn't make policy (only the ceos do that) all I can say is this: 1 - great post, since GF joined EVE I've been impressed, none more so than since you lifted your posting ban. 2 - I don't care, we're gonna kill you anyway. The why no longer matters. See you later ;) So back to the old status quo eh? Fair enough. Let battle be joined. EVE needs more chaos and action.
Dekiri ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.07.28 15:03:00 - [49] Originally by: Snowden Vel Edited by: Snowden Vel on 28/07/2006 14:54:51 Originally by: Dekiri I don't think you are the problem here Tetsujin it is the general attitude within the swarm that is apparently the problem. For every Swarm member that makes an offensive joke, there's 200-300 of us avoiding that kind of behavior, so if you're trying to base assumptions about our general attitude upon the words of a tiny minority you're completely wrong. To be honest.. if there is enough(this is a subjective number) people within the goonswarm that have this attitude and the rest are not able to keep them in their cages then sorry dude you deserve all **** you get. If you are unable to cut the troublemakers down to a certain level you can't expect the community to "understand it" when you do not police your own people. One problem might be that your leader is one of the people unable to behave, wich i guess is one of the reasons you are getting what you get atm. Help to make EVE better! Post in this thread: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=369069
Snowden Vel GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 15:03:00 - [50] Originally by: Dianabolic 2 - I don't care, we're gonna kill you anyway. The why no longer matters. See you later ;) See, I wish we could have just cut straight to this and avoided all the drama. I look forward to the fights.
Gindolar Dunblane GoonWaffe GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 15:08:00 - [51] It's pretty sad that this thread is turning into yet another BoB vs. Goonswarm thread (thanks to both sides) when the OP was originally just trying to tell us all to SHUT UP. All of the ridiculous posturing in this thread looks pretty childish juxtaposed with the completely neutral message of the OP. This isn't a "shame on u goonies" thread, nor is it a "shame on u BoB" thread. It's a thread begging EVERYONE to stop their continuous prodding of a sensitive subject.
Zarimax Mishka GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 15:08:00 - [52] Originally by: Dianabolic 2 - I don't care, we're gonna kill you anyway. The why no longer matters. See you later ;) Awesome. Thank you for finally dropping the pretense. The forum mods will be very happy. Enjoy your war against goonkind.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 15:09:00 - [53] Originally by: Snowden Vel See, I wish we could have just cut straight to this and avoided all the drama. I look forward to the fights. Originally by: Calenth Wish you'd all taken that attitude from the start. See you in game. See, that is what I think the community has been trying to say though. We wish YOU had taken this attitude from the start, too. That being said, I had planned to fight you goons around christmas when the sun wasn't so appealing, it's probably a good thing we fight now - not nearly as many of you will learn nearly as much ;)
Zimi Vlasic F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2006.07.28 15:09:00 - [54] Originally by: Snowden Vel Edited by: Snowden Vel on 28/07/2006 14:54:51 Originally by: Dekiri I don't think you are the problem here Tetsujin it is the general attitude within the swarm that is apparently the problem. For every Swarm member that makes an offensive joke, there's 200-300 of us avoiding that kind of behavior, so if you're trying to base assumptions about our general attitude upon the words of a tiny minority you're completely wrong. This is irrelevant when those 30-40 people are making up 90% of the posts on this forum in an effort to ** people off. I know they're the minority, but they have all appointed themselves as the spokespersons of your alliance. They are the face your alliance has. Like it or not, think it fair or not, that isn't relevant. It really only takes 1 or 2 people to taint this community's perceptions of a corp or alliance. Make that 30-40 "vocal minority" that want nothing more than to ** off people that they care nothing about and you really should expect this negative perception of you.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 15:10:00 - [55] Originally by: Zarimax Mishka Originally by: Dianabolic 2 - I don't care, we're gonna kill you anyway. The why no longer matters. See you later ;) Awesome. Thank you for finally dropping the pretense. The forum mods will be very happy. Enjoy your war against goonkind. It'll take a post from people far better paid than I, to make what you require to prove your point, true.
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 15:11:00 - [56] Originally by: Dianabolic 2 - I don't care, we're gonna kill you anyway. The why no longer matters. See you later ;) There. That, plus the wardecs that were queued up even before BoB dropped the Smoske dramabomb, will finally put the 'BoB is going to war because they're offended' argument to bed. We can have an internet fight in internet space and you won't have to drag your dead friend into it to justify your (perfectly reasonably and pragmatic) assaults on us.
Dekiri ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.07.28 15:11:00 - [57] I would like to add that there are a lot of goons that sound quite reasonable in these discussions, but that doesn't change the fact that you are apparently unable to control your membership. Help to make EVE better! Post in this thread: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=369069
Calenth Amarr	Posted - 2006.07.28 15:13:00 - [58] Edited by: Calenth on 28/07/2006 15:16:13 Originally by: Dekiri To be honest.. if there is enough(this is a subjective number) people within the goonswarm that have this attitude and the rest are not able to keep them in their cages. You can't blame us if we have all the animals caged away safely and some outsider sneaks in, steals a tiger, and drags it into Times Square. We made every possible effort to keep our people policed and prevent offense to others, and we have repeated those apologies ad nauseam. But it's kinda hard for us to prevent someone coming in from outside, taking a quote out of context, and plastering a public forum with it. Hell, in the past couple threads BoB members have been complaining about the content of our private forums, and saying that because they infiltrated those forums with spies, we should've kept our own private, locked forums clean of anything that might possibly offend a BoB spy. (As a side note, the fact that BoB has spies on our forums, and have for a long while, really gives the lie to the whole idea that this wasn't pre-planned and carefully timed). We only have so much control over people. We especially don't have control over the opinions people will form of out-of-context, private-forum quotes read by strangers with no comprehension of our culture. What control we have, we excercised, and frankly we did a pretty good job. A few BoB trolls just wanted to make trouble so they deliberately circumvented our sa***uards. That ain't our fault, it's the fault of the trolls, for trolling.
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2006.07.28 15:14:00 - [59] Edited by: The Mittani on 28/07/2006 15:17:56 Originally by: Dianabolic That being said, I had planned to fight you goons around christmas when the sun wasn't so appealing, it's probably a good thing we fight now - not nearly as many of you will learn nearly as much ;) ah god dude, if we could have just had this exchange two days ago. :( :( :( We're in Cloud Ring 4 months ahead of schedule, after the assault was completed we were to dig in and await an attack from BoB. This whole thing was in the cards, the schedule was just accelerated because Yorda took a potshot at the XZH station and discovered we could conquer it. We've always expected to fight you guys, it's just a crying shame we had to have this stupid run-around before getting down to brass tacks and realpolitik. Edit: Incidentally, I'm probably about the highest authority for the Swarm you'll find on eve-o since Rem has been banned from posting, so I'm not just talking out of my ass when I discuss our warplans and expectations of fighting BoB. We welcome the fight, not the pretextual and transparent smear campaign.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.07.28 15:16:00 - [60] Originally by: The Mittani Originally by: Dianabolic 2 - I don't care, we're gonna kill you anyway. The why no longer matters. See you later ;) There. That, plus the wardecs that were queued up even before BoB dropped the Smoske dramabomb, will finally put the 'BoB is going to war because they're offended' argument to bed. We can have an internet fight in internet space and you won't have to drag your dead friend into it to justify your (perfectly reasonably and pragmatic) assaults on us. It's a shame, mittani, that you don't have any real valid intel on our intentions, nor our behaviour, from your posts I had looked forward to competing against you. I think I'll sign some noobs up to the school you should so obviously start-up though: "The Mittani school of word placement and insertion". This most certainly is what it is, as told by sirmolle, or don't you expect those that pay to play that pay to play (no, it isn't a doubletype) to have such loyalty?

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