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eveceo1
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.28 13:53:00 -
[1]
Your an alt, what you say means nothing.
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Yar!Ö |
Pr1at Bunny
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Posted - 2006.07.28 13:53:00 -
[2]
To the EvE Community ,
In special to ôGooniesö and ôBoBö .
Before ill start my post ill introduce myself .
Oh and yes my English aint perfect .
Im more likely to be known as The Clash who has left EvE a long time ago but still active in the gaming world for KIA Clan . You know the clan most likely as KIA Corp / RONA-KIA .
Ive started the game as everyone else as a noobie exploring the game and trying lots of aspects of it where it from being a carebear to PVP and I can say EvE Online is probably if not THE most interesting online game to date due its diversity , options , careers , peoples dedication to it and so on .
Eventually I moved out to a corporation called CDI aka CyberDyne Industries to gain acces to 0,0 , a step many of us made . Yes during the Great Northern War the most hated corp in the game but thatÆs not the issue now . It went great and lots of fun to be had untill that ôGreatö Northern War à.
First it was a lot of fun although we were wrongly accused as corp , nevertheless there was plenty of PVP around ,intense battles took place , emotions lighted up highly and all in all a very intense time for gamers who took part in it .
This war escalated into something rather disturbing in my opinion as a new player in the world of intensive online gaming .
Forums and Teamspeak servers got infiltrated , and language abuse went thru the roof of any imagination à from both sides .
Some players where really and truly worn out after or during the war so I tought it was kinda disturbing the effect a game had on peoples Real Life . Ofcourse it also depends on how the person gets THEMSELVES involved in a game but due the verbal abuse and what I like to call extreme behaviour a player left the game .
That player was my girlfriend , she was affected truly badly by it , she left the game and for a while ended up in a depression and why ?
Ill tell you why :
People donÆt seem to realise while playing a game the written and/or spoken word is the most powerfull weapon there exist . While abused it can create wars , people getting hurt etc . Now im not here to complain about that but merely to point out that the ôGooniesö and ôBoBö should sit back and breath in and out ten times before they speak .
Ive seen up close and personal what it can do to a person , I urge you all to think and realise in this game any verbal abuse has the same effect In Real Life as Ingame : It hurts esp. in a case about Smoske or my girlfriend situation .
I do not sympathyse with any side in here or condone what has happened and do not want to say to stop a ingame war . But guys please donÆt let something like that happen again .
Both sides cant ride the moral horse here due what youÆve both done . How about that certain ôGoonieö simply apoliges and so do BoB . Shake hands and keep it a clean war as I rather donÆt want to see people get end up again in such situation or get affected by a game In Real Life .
To the rest of EvE : Think twice before you start using certain language , smacktalk in general .. ok but think twice every now and then before you say something and donÆt let turn this ONLINE INGAME WAR into another one filled with true hatred and disgust , extreme accusations and what not .. its simply not worth it , it isnÆt .
I hope the Mods in here would like to either lock this post and keep it or sticky it for a few days for everyone to read in hope to keep the spirit normal or at least keep it in a civil discussion .
It would become very more clearer the reason I post if I gave out all details but it would create a flame war against certain people in here wich I donÆt want . I just hope you all support this tought and keep things a bit inline .
You absolutely donÆt wanna end up in a situation my girlfriend was IRL and certainly not when people use it against you to ataginize you or put you down wether its IRL or Ingame .
Thank you for yer time for reading this .
Signed ,
KIA û The Clash .
DonÆt Make It Personal à Its Really Not Worth it .
PS . Im not lookin for an apology for anyone who did what they did . I just like to warn people with this post and give you something to think about nor is this any post to accuse someone .
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LWMaverick
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Posted - 2006.07.28 13:57:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: eveceo1
Your an alt, what you say means nothing.
<3 clash 
Poverty  |
Greme
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.28 13:59:00 -
[4]
Originally by: eveceo1
Your an alt, what you say means nothing.
No, it means quite alot actually.
I concurr with clash in his thoughts, keep out of the personal stuff.
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Avon
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.28 13:59:00 -
[5]
Originally by: eveceo1
Your an alt, what you say means nothing.
He can't post with the character he used to play, because he doesn't own it any more.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Calenth
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.28 14:03:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Calenth on 28/07/2006 14:04:22
Edited by: Calenth on 28/07/2006 14:04:06
I agree with you, but I really cannot emphasize enough the facts that
1) Tetsujin did apologize, in the initial thread, and directly to Moby in person.
2) Anything that might have offended people in this game, we made every effort to keep out of game and on our private forums.
I agree completely that such matters should have been left out of game and off these forums. Nobody in Goonfleet intended to hurt anyone, and we apologized sincerely for what hurt we caused.
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Sotla
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Posted - 2006.07.28 14:06:00 -
[7]
Calenth this thread is about the damage spoken and written word card do and not about us. Please edit out your post.
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Zzazzt
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.28 14:06:00 -
[8]
Thank-you for posting that Clash.
It's obviously heartfealt & sincere. I hope folks take notice.
____________________________________________
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magickangaroo
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.07.28 14:10:00 -
[9]
Originally by: eveceo1
Your an alt, what you say means nothing.
muppet
hi clash. tis good to see you again, hi to rock and al
(GAL11) Brigadier General yay |
Heptameron
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.28 14:11:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Calenth
Edited by: Calenth on 28/07/2006 14:07:40
Edited by: Calenth on 28/07/2006 14:04:22
Edited by: Calenth on 28/07/2006 14:04:06
I agree with you, but I really cannot emphasize enough the facts that
1) Tetsujin did apologize, in the initial thread, and directly to Moby in person.
2) Anything that might have offended people in this game, we made every effort to keep out of game and on our private forums.
I agree completely that such matters should have been left out of game and off these forums. Nobody in Goonfleet intended to hurt anyone, and we apologized sincerely for what hurt we caused, and we maintain that apology. But I truly and honestly believe that we weren't the ones who made an internet spaceship war a personal matter.
And i agree had it been left at that but XZH local last night was full of the witty jokes and remarks showing such little remorse that how can any apology be taken with any level of sincerity.
----------------------------------------------
We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and clap as they go by |
Tetsujin
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.07.28 14:11:00 -
[11]
I wish everyone would just drop it. I'm sure that this frame of thought is echoed by anyone affected because of this incident.
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Pr1at Bunny
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Posted - 2006.07.28 14:13:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Heptameron
Originally by: Calenth
Edited by: Calenth on 28/07/2006 14:07:40
Edited by: Calenth on 28/07/2006 14:04:22
Edited by: Calenth on 28/07/2006 14:04:06
I agree with you, but I really cannot emphasize enough the facts that
1) Tetsujin did apologize, in the initial thread, and directly to Moby in person.
2) Anything that might have offended people in this game, we made every effort to keep out of game and on our private forums.
I agree completely that such matters should have been left out of game and off these forums. Nobody in Goonfleet intended to hurt anyone, and we apologized sincerely for what hurt we caused, and we maintain that apology. But I truly and honestly believe that we weren't the ones who made an internet spaceship war a personal matter.
And i agree had it been left at that but XZH local last night was full of the witty jokes and remarks showing such little remorse that how can any apology be taken with any level of sincerity.
Sometimes you have to swallow , step back , breath , think and learn to accept . I dont demand anything just think about it .
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Kcel Chim
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.28 14:21:00 -
[13]
clash a well thought out post.
However let us not confuse a few things here.
If bad things happened to your gf im very sorry and hope she gets better. Verbal abuse is always bad and beyond the level of smack or taunting. However if it happens INGAME you can by all means use the petition feature and get the ppl involved banned or warned. Furthermore as far as i know dbp and other senior guys in BoB they will not tolerate such behaviour if they are themself in local or are made aware of it. No matter if youre an enemy or a neutral player.
The current situation however is a different pair of shoes. Firstname Lastname and Remedial already made fun of the sad death way back and got punished for it ingame. Ever since some ppl, along the recent case took up the ball to abuse the death and memory of a person who has done alot for this community, causing grief to others who called him a friend or even worse a relative.
Now i would wholeheartly agree with you if this case was isolated, if -1- goon did wrong. However the situation escalated. Threads were started, posts were made and excuses were found. I and many others learned that apparently this was NOT an isolated case within the goon community and many ppl actually share or dont care about the offences and abuse within their ranks aslong as its "fun".
WTB corpses threads, Offending sigs, Verbal abuse in Local, Choice of words and modified ingame avatars (remedial again anyone?) clearly show that this is not "one guy did bad lets punish him and forget about it" event.
Last but not least, you didnt mention it but other posts did and i thought i would clearify it here as it sounds like a reasonable discussion could take place. Many ppl use the excuse of "Freedom of speech" which in itself is an illusion. Walk up to your boss and insult him, insult a cop, insult your parents (if you still rely on them financially) or go and offend / behave badly in public. Quickly youll see consequences no matter how loud you stomp on your so called "right for free speech", regardless of which country youre in.
This online community is no different and i think the goons just learned that.
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DeadDuck
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.28 14:22:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Heptameron
And i agree had it been left at that but XZH local last night was full of the witty jokes and remarks showing such little remorse that how can any apology be taken with any level of sincerity.
Fully agree... the local chat in XZH was in one word: awful 
The level of rubish and smack was beyond any reasonable limit 
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Calenth
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.28 14:22:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Heptameron
And i agree had it been left at that but XZH local last night was full of the witty jokes and remarks showing such little remorse that how can any apology be taken with any level of sincerity.
I'm not excusing those comments, and most of us were trying to get those people to stop even at the time. I think what happened was that a lot of Goonfleet members who had no role in the initial issue at all, but were nevertheless being slandered and attacked, decided they were going to actually commit the crime they were being hanged for. I think the mentality was "ok, if these people are going to get all arrogant and self-righteous and ****ed off at me over something I didn't even do, let's see how angry they get when I actually do it." When you slander a whole group of people, those people get angry, and angry people do stupid things.
In other words: while there wasn't any excuse for those comments and I wish they'd never been made, the reason they were made at all is because BoB dragged this whole dramabomb out into the public eye. It was just a sad, predictable reaction.
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Jiara Castoumi
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.28 14:25:00 -
[16]
thats all well and good aslong as the person youre stepping back from doesnt take another step towards you and continues.
Appeasement can only last for so long tbh.. one step back is all i would give, if they take one step towards me i take that as a form of aggression and defend myself.
- Contract Accountancy Service - |
NereSky
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.28 14:26:00 -
[17]
Although i emphasise with the op , the GNW was a completely differant situation ,
seeing the comments in local from the goonies like pew pew pew ,fofofofo and my all time favourite vroom vroom and other comments i will not repeat here,
Says to me its all a big Gooney joke and i personnally do not find it funny ,
its time they were sent back to nursery , but i suppose Empire will do for now.
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Kcel Chim
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.28 14:26:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Calenth
Originally by: Heptameron
And i agree had it been left at that but XZH local last night was full of the witty jokes and remarks showing such little remorse that how can any apology be taken with any level of sincerity.
I'm not excusing those comments, and most of us were trying to get those people to stop even at the time. I think what happened was that a lot of Goonfleet members who had no role in the initial issue at all, but were nevertheless being slandered and attacked, decided they were going to actually commit the crime they were being hanged for. I think the mentality was "ok, if these people are going to get all arrogant and self-righteous and ****ed off at me over something I didn't even do, let's see how angry they get when I actually do it." When you slander a whole group of people, those people get angry, and angry people do stupid things.
In other words: while there wasn't any excuse for those comments and I wish they'd never been made, the reason they were made at all is because BoB dragged this whole dramabomb out into the public eye. It was just a sad, predictable reaction.
You dont want to excuse the ppl, yet you do.
Beeing offensive or giving out this kind of abuse is NEVER ok. No matter what anyone accuses you off or does to you ingame. Two bads dont make one right.
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Calenth
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.28 14:26:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kcel Chim
Last but not least, you didnt mention it but other posts did and i thought i would clearify it here as it sounds like a reasonable discussion could take place. Many ppl use the excuse of "Freedom of speech" which in itself is an illusion. Walk up to your boss and insult him, insult a cop, insult your parents (if you still rely on them financially) or go and offend / behave badly in public. Quickly youll see consequences no matter how loud you stomp on your so called "right for free speech", regardless of which country youre in.
This online community is no different and i think the goons just learned that.
We didn't say anything offensive in a public place, and last I checked BoB wasn't our boss (although they probably would like to think they are). Again, I cannot emphasize this enough: we did not drag any of this into the public eye, and we did not bring this into the Eve community at large.
I agree completely that people should live with the conduct of their actions in public. But what people do in private where it won't hurt others is their own business, because such actions are not involved with the community. Unless some probing busybody sticks their nose in and drags things outside.
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Pr1at Bunny
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Posted - 2006.07.28 14:27:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kcel Chim
clash a well thought out post.
However let us not confuse a few things here.
If bad things happened to your gf im very sorry and hope she gets better. Verbal abuse is always bad and beyond the level of smack or taunting. However if it happens INGAME you can by all means use the petition feature and get the ppl involved banned or warned. Furthermore as far as i know dbp and other senior guys in BoB they will not tolerate such behaviour if they are themself in local or are made aware of it. No matter if youre an enemy or a neutral player.
The current situation however is a different pair of shoes. Firstname Lastname and Remedial already made fun of the sad death way back and got punished for it ingame. Ever since some ppl, along the recent case took up the ball to abuse the death and memory of a person who has done alot for this community, causing grief to others who called him a friend or even worse a relative.
Now i would wholeheartly agree with you if this case was isolated, if -1- goon did wrong. However the situation escalated. Threads were started, posts were made and excuses were found. I and many others learned that apparently this was NOT an isolated case within the goon community and many ppl actually share or dont care about the offences and abuse within their ranks aslong as its "fun".
WTB corpses threads, Offending sigs, Verbal abuse in Local, Choice of words and modified ingame avatars (remedial again anyone?) clearly show that this is not "one guy did bad lets punish him and forget about it" event.
Last but not least, you didnt mention it but other posts did and i thought i would clearify it here as it sounds like a reasonable discussion could take place. Many ppl use the excuse of "Freedom of speech" which in itself is an illusion. Walk up to your boss and insult him, insult a cop, insult your parents (if you still rely on them financially) or go and offend / behave badly in public. Quickly youll see consequences no matter how loud you stomp on your so called "right for free speech", regardless of which country youre in.
This online community is no different and i think the goons just learned that.
Petition and all that didnt helped .
Im not wanting to have another Goons VS BoB here just for both side and everyoen ingame to consider and think about .
Im not here posting to support one side or another i think its clear who said what and when .
Just maybe everyone step back and breath and read and consider this , not taking anyones guilt away not at all .
I dont expect sorries or whatever maybe just a discussion at level of mature behaviour or a post that might help reduce teh chance of players gettin really hurt in hope people wil think twice about their actions wether they are BoB , Frits , Truus , Goonies or whatever corp or alliance outthere .
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Diicc Tater
Takahashi Syndicate
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.07.28 14:29:00 -
[21]
One must always have a certain level of detachement from games.
That is also why there are rules to what you can and can't say in game. Some people need help when they cross that line.
1. If you feel disturbed/abused by a convo/smack session just say "Ok, let's calm down mate, that hurt for real".
2. report abusive language if you can't shake it.
And I think what you said did matter. Very much.
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Smith
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.28 14:30:00 -
[22]
NO time for stepping back.
TIME TO SMASH SMASH SMASH!! 
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Rebellion
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.28 14:31:00 -
[23]
Calenth, you didn't say anything offensive at a public place until that debacle in local. In fact, the goons were quite sociable. But then we found out what your membership really thought. It made all of the nice words and apologies hypocritical.
You say your internal forums have no business with EVE. They do since you use them to plan activities in EVE.
I also wish that your membership didn't expose to the world how some of you are just too base because of online anonymity. But we found out. To say that a lot of our members are enraged is an understatement. A lot of us are very, very angry. Since we are convinced that this behavior will persist as long as Goonfleet is GoonFleet since your membership thinks that you are not doing anything wrong, we decide to act.
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Kcel Chim
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.28 14:31:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Calenth
We didn't say anything offensive in a public place, and last I checked BoB wasn't our boss (although they probably would like to think they are). Again, I cannot emphasize this enough: we did not drag any of this into the public eye, and we did not bring this into the Eve community at large.
I agree completely that people should live with the conduct of their actions in public. But what people do in private where it won't hurt others is their own business, because such actions are not involved with the community. Unless some probing busybody sticks their nose in and drags things outside.
So the behaviour is in your eyes ok, aslong as its not happening in public (and doesnt have consequences for you).
I rest my case, you showed better then i ever could why all those who read those sigs and werent offended are as bad as the person who actually had the sig.
Decency (sp?) and "character" is not a matter of "showing it while ppl watch".
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Dekiri
ISS Navy Task Force
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.07.28 14:33:00 -
[25]
What happened to your friend is a sad thing, but i can't really connect this and the thing with your friend.
Apparently it really isn't a single goon it is a bunch of them, and if BoB think about policing them .. more power to them.
I think we should all sit back and watch how this turns out.
There has to be some shooting and either goons will improve a LOT on the diplomatic table or they will really have some trouble i guess.
Help to make EVE better! Post in this thread:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=369069
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Tetsujin
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2006.07.28 14:33:00 -
[26]
I'd post my direct apology to moby but frankly it's none of anyone's ******* business so just shut up about it now please. The people responsible for local talk have been punished severely, I am leaving the alliance, and that is that. Any further dredgery of this really should be swallowed and left alone.
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Calenth
Amarr
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Posted - 2006.07.28 14:34:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Kcel Chim
Two bads dont make one right.
You know, at least Goonfleet members have apologized. I haven't seen the slightest hint of apology or shame from anyone in BoB for any aspect of this fiasco. But I guess they feel they don't have to apologize for anything as long as they can prove themselves in some sort of space trial by combat.
Anyway, this is getting off topic from the original post, and I agree with the original post completely, so I don't want to derail things further. I only really posted because it looked like the OP didn't know that Tetsujin actually had apologized straight off, and that we did attempt to keep all this out of game.
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Dekiri
ISS Navy Task Force
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.07.28 14:35:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Tetsujin
I'd post my direct apology to moby but frankly it's none of anyone's ******* business so just shut up about it now please. The people responsible for local talk have been punished severely, I am leaving the alliance, and that is that. Any further dredgery of this really should be swallowed and left alone.
I don't think you are the problem here Tetsujin it is the general attitude within the swarm that is apparently the problem.
Help to make EVE better! Post in this thread:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=369069
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Pr1at Bunny
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Posted - 2006.07.28 14:39:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Calenth
Originally by: Kcel Chim
Two bads dont make one right.
You know, at least Goonfleet members have apologized. I haven't seen the slightest hint of apology or shame from anyone in BoB for any aspect of this fiasco. But I guess they feel they don't have to apologize for anything as long as they can prove themselves in some sort of space trial by combat.
Anyway, this is getting off topic from the original post, and I agree with the original post completely, so I don't want to derail things further. I only really posted because it looked like the OP didn't know that Tetsujin actually had apologized straight off, and that we did attempt to keep all this out of game.
No i didnt know and if i did i still would have made the post as said before :
I DONT pick sides
I DONT wave a flag at any of you
I JUST hope as this situation is somewhat comparable it wouldnt turn out into teh same problems as back then and its a post also ment for the all of teh EvE Players to THINK about .
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Chochko
Black Omega Security
E.R.A
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Posted - 2006.07.28 14:41:00 -
[30]
Originally by: KSUDruid
Someone said one time that "Compared to the Spoken Word, a Picture is a pitiful thing ineed" Both sides should think about exactly why we've gotten to this point right here, and how much the spoken word has influenced you up to this point. I for one, won't be saying anything else on the topic, on the forums or in local. I'd invite anyone who's a decent enough human being, to do the same.
I realy like this part, if the people were like you this game will be Perfect. The World too.
----------------------------------------
Ancient Japanese saying:
The one who owns the minigun, fears not! |
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