| Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Ithildin
Gallente
   |
Posted - 2006.07.29 15:03:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Nira Li
We've been waiting longer for the Teir 3 BS so get in line 
I checked the BS stats and noticed that the minmatar bs have a 8/5/7 layout, which means armor tank. So yeah, stats are changing alot. Dont take anything for granted.
I would absolutely love an armor tank on this ship. LOVE. Tuxford, you hear me? LOOOOOVE.
At the same time, this game needs more shield tankers. Lots of more shield tanked ships. (For reasons of damage type balance)
Dark skies torn apart
Heavens open before me
I, the light of death |
Nafri
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.29 15:04:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Nira Li
We've been waiting longer for the Teir 3 BS so get in line
I checked the BS stats and noticed that the minmatar bs have a 8/5/7 layout, which means armor tank. So yeah, stats are changing alot. Dont take anything for granted.
I would absolutely love an armor tank on this ship. LOVE. Tuxford, you hear me? LOOOOOVE.
At the same time, this game needs more shield tankers. Lots of more shield tanked ships. (For reasons of damage type balance)
shield tanks are only fun if they are passive 
From Dusk till Dawn
Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected]) |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.29 15:06:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Ithildin
At the same time, this game needs more shield tankers. Lots of more shield tanked ships. (For reasons of damage type balance)
I think its enough with Caldari being shield tankers. It suits missiles because you dont have to care about getting in range, and you dont need tracking computers etc. I think its horrible on gunships.
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Ithildin
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.07.29 15:11:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Ithildin
At the same time, this game needs more shield tankers. Lots of more shield tanked ships. (For reasons of damage type balance)
I think its enough with Caldari being shield tankers. It suits missiles because you dont have to care about getting in range, and you dont need tracking computers etc. I think its horrible on gunships.
Merely a product of the enhancers (low slot) being completely subpar to the computers (mid slot) in combination with the insane amount of mid slots needed to counter hostile propulsion systems that you stand a chance of getting a fight (scramblers in droves and a web if you can fit it)
That shield tanking should be concentrated merely with the Caldari is not very good balance, and to say that Minmatar should be added to the armour tankers along with Amarr and Gallente merely shifts the resistance unbalance so that the value of EM damage is further reduced.
Dark skies torn apart
Heavens open before me
I, the light of death |
Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.29 15:15:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I think its enough with Caldari being shield tankers. It suits missiles because you dont have to care about getting in range, and you dont need tracking computers etc. I think its horrible on gunships.
then lower the default EM-resists on armor across the board and increase it on shields. otherwise lasers are getting worse with an increasing amount of armor tankers around while being best against our supposed allies.
|
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.29 15:17:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 29/07/2006 15:19:17
Originally by: Ithildin
Merely a product of the enhancers (low slot) being completely subpar to the computers (mid slot) in combination with the insane amount of mid slots needed to counter hostile propulsion systems that you stand a chance of getting a fight (scramblers in droves and a web if you can fit it)
That shield tanking should be concentrated merely with the Caldari is not very good balance, and to say that Minmatar should be added to the armour tankers along with Amarr and Gallente merely shifts the resistance unbalance so that the value of EM damage is further reduced.
Its not about being added. Minmatar already have some ships that are armor-tanked, and exacly those ships are the ones being the most popular in solo pvp. Thats because armor tanking is superior in that situation since it allows you to fit tackling gear in the medium slots.
If minmatar were only shield tankers, there would in fact be 0% reason to not pick caldari/gallente instead. Minmatar is supposed to be outlaws, capable of hit and run tactics. Thats not even possible if you shield tank the ship, because either you cant hold anyone, or you need to use medium slots for MWD/AB and a webber, making your tank suck. And thats why caldari ships are pretty much not used at all for solo pvp.
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Lisento Slaven
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.29 15:25:00 -
[37]
Well we already know what the Amarri tier 2 BC is going to be.
Lasers and armor!
I'd rather focus on the Tier 3 BS right now =P
---
Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales!
|
Ithildin
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.07.29 15:37:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
If minmatar were only shield tankers, there would in fact be 0% reason to not pick caldari/gallente instead. Minmatar is supposed to be outlaws, capable of hit and run tactics. Thats not even possible if you shield tank the ship, because either you cant hold anyone, or you need to use medium slots for MWD/AB and a webber, making your tank suck. And thats why caldari ships are pretty much not used at all for solo pvp.
Excellent reasons... for not having a tanked ship at all.
That said, shield technology is supposed to be high-tech. Too high tech for Minmatar, surely. Additionally, given the shared lineage of Caldari and Gallente in addition to Gallente being, perhaps, the second strongest technologically advanced civilization (by not too far, though) I've asked myself why Gallente aren't shield tankers. Too late for that, though, since it'd mean a drastic change to some 20+ ships.
Regardless, there's a highlight in there, and that is that it's impossible to shield tank and do close range combat at the same time. This is something that CCP needs to adress.
At the same time, the Maelstrom seem for all intents and purposes not to be a close combat, hit and run, boat at all. It seems to be a heavy-pounder artillery boat.
Now the problems here is that a) active tanks aren't really preferable in fleets where artilleries belong, b) CCP's been neglecting tracking enhancers and sensor enhancers.
I feel that a good way of making a shield tanked Maelstrom wanted is to implement what's been suggested many times by community - splitting the boosting effects of sensor and tracking computers into two modules, ideally giving one attribute (such as targeting range and optimal range respectively) to corresponding low slot modules and lock times and tracking to mid slot items.
(I.e. let Tracking Enhancers boost optimal range ONLY and let Sensor Boosters boost sensor resolution ONLY - Tracking Links and similar targeted modules'd remain as they are for obvious reasons)
Dark skies torn apart
Heavens open before me
I, the light of death |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.29 15:41:00 -
[39]
Yep, you have some good suggestions there, but until ccp decides to change how the game works, armor tanking is superior in solo pvp simply because of module fitting reasons.
I want to armor tank my ships, and I dont need yet another reason to have a look at Gallente, trust me. 
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Shadowsword
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.07.29 16:02:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Lisento Slaven
Well we already know what the Amarri tier 2 BC is going to be.
Lasers and armor!
I'd rather focus on the Tier 3 BS right now =P
A lot more lasers than armor, it seems. If what's being said about it stay true (damage and RoF bonuses), and if it keeps it's 8 guns when it comes out, I foresee a lot of screaming. Think Armageddon with medium guns.
------------------------------------------
Nuhwall: Why are some Amarr ships warping backward?
Shadowsword: whatever happen, if they need to flee they can honestly say the faced the enemy. |
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.29 16:05:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Shadowsword
A lot more lasers than armor, it seems. If what's being said about it stay true (damage and RoF bonuses), and if it keeps it's 8 guns when it comes out, I foresee a lot of screaming. Think Armageddon with medium guns.
Well, the caldari version currently have 7 launchers and 6 medium slots. Think Caldari Navy Raven with medium missiles.
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Dahak2150
|
Posted - 2006.07.29 16:23:00 -
[42]
The Amarr BC is the sex. My wallpaper right now.
If the final product is any good, I am so dropping my prophecy for one of them.
|
Lisento Slaven
Amarr
|
Posted - 2006.07.29 16:29:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Dahak2150
The Amarr BC is the sex. My wallpaper right now.
If the final product is any good, I am so dropping my prophecy for one of them.
Just like everyone will drop their Armageddons for +1 turret, +1 midslot, +better fittings (Abaddon)
---
Lisento Slaven wants to be a Space Whaler in EVE.
Put in space whales!
|
Derran
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.07.29 19:48:00 -
[44]
Mm. Those stats are nice. I like 'em.
Although, if they give the Gallente BC 7 HI with 5 launchers, I'd be happier.:)
|
Jim McGregor
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.07.29 19:52:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Derran
Mm. Those stats are nice. I like 'em.
Although, if they give the Gallente BC 7 HI with 5 launchers, I'd be happier.:)
I actually didnt read hippokings post too well before. All these stats in this thread are outdated too. And the test server is down until tomorrow's downtime, but I think that one has stats that are recent.
---
Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Novarei
Ninth Column
|
Posted - 2006.07.29 19:59:00 -
[46]
Agree wholeheartedly, i'm so excited about the caldari one, not only because it looks like a solo pwnmobile, but it looks sweet too.
--------------------
|
White Ronin
|
Posted - 2006.07.29 20:31:00 -
[47]
At least us Droners get another drone ship that might be worth a damn.
Cant wait till they come to Tranq.
|
|
Tuxford
|
Posted - 2006.07.29 22:44:00 -
[48]
Can't really give you any solid info on the tier 2 battlecruiser yet but I think Hammer boosted the agility recently.
_______________ |
|
Naughty Boy
|
Posted - 2006.07.29 22:45:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Naughty Boy on 29/07/2006 22:45:50
Originally by: Tuxford
Can't really give you any solid info on the tier 2 battlecruiser yet but I think Hammer boosted the agility recently.
Awesome if he did 
NB.
|
Callistus
Coreli Corporation
|
Posted - 2006.07.29 22:46:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Tuxford
Can't really give you any solid info on the tier 2 battlecruiser yet but I think Hammer boosted the agility recently.
\o/
On all of them, or just the new tier 2 ones?
--------------
[Coreli Corporation Mainfrane] |
|
Tuxford
|
Posted - 2006.07.29 22:48:00 -
[51]
All of them
_______________ |
|
Gierling
Gallente
|
Posted - 2006.07.29 22:51:00 -
[52]
Tux is just scared of getting flamed again.
Its alright, we love you even if the new ships suck.
|
Kenz Rider
|
Posted - 2006.07.29 22:58:00 -
[53]
What is the syntax to make those links?
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Grimpak
yes, give us preliminary stats of the tier2 BC's
Load this up ingame (or on the test server for more up-to-dateness): http://hippoking.bumcheekcity.com/tier2bc.htm
Whine about them, and you are guaranteed to **** off Tux 
(yes, I know the URL sounds like ghey pawn, don't remind me)
|
Sarmaul
0utbreak
|
Posted - 2006.07.29 23:01:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Gierling
Tux is just scared of getting flamed again.
qft 
TEAM MINMATAR FORUMS
- In Rust We Trust - |
Jerick Ludhowe
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
|
Posted - 2006.07.29 23:09:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Tuxford
Can't really give you any solid info on the tier 2 battlecruiser yet but I think Hammer boosted the agility recently.
My pants just got very tight for some odd reason.
|
Ketrin
|
Posted - 2006.07.29 23:09:00 -
[56]
Quote:
Its alright, we love you even if the new ships suck.
qft =/
|
Hydrian Alante
The Loot Company
|
Posted - 2006.07.29 23:11:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Tuxford
Can't really give you any solid info on the tier 2 battlecruiser yet but I think Hammer boosted the agility recently.
Higher agility... does this mean lower mass too or just higher agility?
When will this hit TQ? With the Dragon Client?
|
Shayla Sh'inlux
Millennium
|
Posted - 2006.07.30 00:32:00 -
[58]
Quote:
Its not about being added. Minmatar already have some ships that are armor-tanked, and exacly those ships are the ones being the most popular in solo pvp. Thats because armor tanking is superior in that situation since it allows you to fit tackling gear in the medium slots.
Agreed.
On paper shieldtanking is superior to armor tanking in all aspects which is why it was so prevalent in the PvP tournament where there was no need for tacking or EW. That's also why you see people shieldtanking just about every NPC ship.
If tackling would move to highslots shieldtanking would become more common and close range and shieldtanking would actually work.
Move propulsion jamming systems to the highslots and then give interceptors a range or strength bonus to them instead of the silly double damage bonuses. Cap use and/or fitting can be adjusted to make 4xScrambler Crusader not viable or at least very hard.
 |
Tyler Lowe
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2006.07.30 03:05:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux
Agreed.
On paper shieldtanking is superior to armor tanking in all aspects which is why it was so prevalent in the PvP tournament where there was no need for tacking or EW. That's also why you see people shieldtanking just about every NPC ship.
In PvP it is obvious that midslots are much more desirable than lowslots so you don't see much shieldtanking around. People fit tackling (and then more tacking to counter today's overuse of stabs) and if they got slots left they use a speedmod or imbalanced ECM.
Lowslots otoh are kind redundant after fitting 2-3 damage mods, so everyone puts damage controls and plates and stuff there.
If tackling would move to highslots shieldtanking would become more common and close range and shieldtanking would actually work. Move propulsion jamming systems (scramble as well as web) to the highslots and then give interceptors a range or strength bonus to them instead of the silly double damage bonuses. Cap use and/or fitting can be adjusted (if needed) to make 4xScrambler Crusader not viable or at least very hard.
I agree with this to an extent, though further reworking of the ships intended as tacklers would be desirable in such a case (ie utility highs added). High slot mounting, while changing ship slot layouts to include such utility highs could go a long way towards fixing some of the inbalance in game currently.
I think it may also be time to re-examine the nature of the low slot modules designed to do a job mid slots are currently simply better at. I have not been playing Eve long enough to remember this first hand, but I have read that once upon a time, all ships were armor tanked. Mids would have been at an elevated status as a result, intended almost exclusively for active modules to handle such tasks as tracking, webbing, sensor boosting, etc.
As ships are now no longer neccesarily armor tanked, perhaps it is time to look at whether or not pidgeon holing certain ships into set configurations, or punishing some ships with a lack of diversity, simply because they tank in their mids, is still desirable.
I'm not fully convinced with the statement that shield tanking is of neccesity superior to armor tanking, and while I may most certainly be wrong in my interpretation of the recent pvp tournament, my view is that the main reason for so many shield tanking setups had as much to do with the desire to use missile systems and these weapons are typically found on ships that make for better shield tanks as it did with any advantage shield tanking may offer over armor tanking.
J.A.F.O.
|
Maya Rkell
Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2006.07.30 03:42:00 -
[60]
Shrug, strictly leaving interceptors alone in that might FINALLY get through to certain people that they're not supposed to be dedicated tacklers. (I'd be in favour of a NEW T2 frigate ship class for that...no more than 2 weapons in the highs and NO weapon bonuses...)
Not that I think it's a good idea overall - I think a reasonable bonus on stabs will bring their usage in combat down to a more sensible margin, and CCP have made it clear that the full-WCS-lowslot travel mount is going to remain viable (Which is fair enough).
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |