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Reithan
Caldari
Dark Planet Ventures
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Posted - 2006.08.02 15:25:00 -
[1]
Ok, couple things I've been wondering about:
Inertia and Agility....same thing or no?
Many similar modules sometimes reference Agility, sometimes inertia, but the icon for both stats is the same, and the modifiers seem to be equivalent.
Next, Nanofibers give a speed AND inertia bonus, but take a little of you structure hp.
Inertial Stabs take nothing but give you am inertia bonus.
So, you'd assume, since Inertia Stabs are a focused bonus to ONLY inertia, they'd have a bigger inertia bonus than nanos...BUT THEY DON'T!!
So, why the hell would anyone ever fit Inertia Stabs when they could fit nanos instead??
That's just been confusing me, thanks.
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Remedios Sonrisa
Eve University
The Big Blue
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Posted - 2006.08.02 15:55:00 -
[2]
Perhaps this example can help you:
a large, overweight person has a lot of inertia, whether stationary or moving. It is also likely that the same person will not have a lot of agility owing to the large inertia (which typically is dependent on mass of the object).
Hence, a large ship will not be as agile b/c it is massive, not to mention cumbersome. Nanofibers increase speed and reduce inertia, thus making the ship faster and more agile. The loss of inertia comes from reducing the structure HP, which is sensible as you are basically reducing the mass of the ship.
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Cavy Dan
Gallente
Alpha Praetorians
Curse Coalition
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Posted - 2006.08.02 15:56:00 -
[3]
I think Inertia is the opposite of agility
The more Inertia, the less agility and vice versa.
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Reithan
Caldari
Dark Planet Ventures
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Posted - 2006.08.02 16:06:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Cavy Dan
I think Inertia is the opposite of agility
The more Inertia, the less agility and vice versa.
That made sense to me too...but if you look and Inertia BONUS gives -X% inertia.
However an agility BONUS ALSO gives -X%.
So, I'm thinking that even though both names are used, it actually just ONE stat.
And to the other poster, yes I understand how nanofibers work.
The question was, why would anyone every use an Inertial Stabilizer over a nanofiber? It seems the two modules aren't balanced in regards to each other.
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Alessar Kaldorei
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.02 16:20:00 -
[5]
As you yourself said, inertial stabs don't decrease your structure HP. Some people (those who structure tank, for instance) would not be willing to sacrifice structure for speed, but they would nonetheless like to make their ships turn faster. That's who inertial stabs are for. The reason they give less bonus is because you're not sacrificing anything for the gain, so the gain is smaller, to keep the balance.
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Reithan
Caldari
Dark Planet Ventures
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Posted - 2006.08.02 16:45:00 -
[6]
Everything I've read or looked at from anywhere though leads to the point that structure tanking is inherently gimp and doomed to failure.
No resistances, only ONE possible Damage Control, giving you a MAX of 50% resists, slow repair, etc...
So, who, if anyone, actually structure tanks??
Leading to the point that
Nanofiber = +speed ++agility, -structure hp which no one uses if they can help it.
vs.
Inertial Stab = +agility
So, basically, as far as pros and cons go, Nanofiber beats Inertial Stabs hands down.
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Caleb Paine
Itchy Trigger Finger Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.02 16:50:00 -
[7]
CCP have a habit of decribing bonuses as negative penalties and vice versa. They also have a habit of making a mess of it and leave it to the player's comon sense to actually work it out if something either gives a bonus or a penalty :)
Just look at the number, apply comon sense and presto, you know if it's a bonus or pernalty.
In this case it's quite simple;
- The inertia stabilizer grants you a bonus; 10% less intertia (thus more agility)
- The nanobifer internal structure grants you a 12.5% agility bonus AND 20m/s more outright base speed. But it has a cost; 10% less structure.
This structure penalty might not seem important in small ships because once you're in structure things go from really bad to really REALLY bad in about 3 seconds. On bigger ships, and even more when using a Damage Control module, the amount of structure you have can determine if you win or lose.
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Death smiles at us all, all a man can do is smile back.
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Caleb Paine
Itchy Trigger Finger Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.02 16:51:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Reithan
So, basically, as far as pros and cons go, Nanofiber beats Inertial Stabs hands down.
Exactly
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Death smiles at us all, all a man can do is smile back.
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Himo Amasacia
Minmatar
Elite United Corp
Antigo Dominion
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Posted - 2006.08.02 16:53:00 -
[9]
There have been several fights that I cave come out of on less than 10% structure. Sometimes thast little bit is all you need, and a dam control effectivly doubles it.
But tahst why that the modulkes exist, so you can wiegh the pros and cons for yourself and make your own choice.
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Gadfly Hawke
G-Tek
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.08.02 19:14:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Himo Amasacia
But that's why the modules exist, so you can weigh the pros and cons for yourself and make your own choice.
That and to ensure that all the ships are different.
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Sakura Nihil
Tharsis Security
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Posted - 2006.08.02 21:59:00 -
[11]
Trick with nanofibers though is if you're using them to enhance your entry into warp, say running past a factional navy in highsec, it takes longer to get into warp due to your now-higher max velocity. Thus, interial stabs are better for this purpose, but on the whole nanofibers ftw.
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Tsanse Kinske
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.02 22:37:00 -
[12]
Also they're apparently revising Inertial Stabs to make them more useful than they currently are, especially compared to Nanos. From teh blog:
"They now give you a mass reduction as well as agility bonus. Fitting an inertia stabilizer now gives you bigger velocity bonus when you fit an MWD and an AB and makes you more agile. However mass is now stacking nerfed, it doesn't affect any other module though since inertia stabilizers are the only module that affects mass in a multiplicative way."
I'm guessing that's not live yet, at least not on the regular servers.
Quote:
Trick with nanofibers though is if you're using them to enhance your entry into warp, say running past a factional navy in highsec, it takes longer to get into warp due to your now-higher max velocity. Thus, interial stabs are better for this purpose, but on the whole nanofibers ftw.
Are you sure about this? I thought that acceleration scaled up proportionately with max velocity, all else being equal.
/me contemplates Cargo Expanders...
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Jahah Smith
Amarr
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.08.03 00:24:00 -
[13]
Your ship will go into warp at 75% of max velocity (hence the trick with webbing a corp mates freighter to make it get into warp faster). So if you get a velocity bonus then your max speed is now higher and it takes that much longer for your ship to get into warp with nanos. Whereas inertial stabs do not have the velocity bonus so you turn faster (agility bonus) and get into warp faster than with nanos.
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Caleb Paine
Itchy Trigger Finger Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.03 00:36:00 -
[14]
True but that only works if you're aligned properly, if you have to turn around and get some speed going it just might turn the other way, not sure really. But yes, since the point to getting into warp is related to your ship's maximum speed adding 20m/s to that max speed might not help a whole lot.
Thing is ofcourse that the bonus is a defined number; 20m/s so to a very slow Battleship that extra 15m/s it has to achieve (75% of 20) is a LOT. But to a frigate type that has a basespeed of over 400 the extra 15m/s really isn't going to hurt it much.
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Death smiles at us all, all a man can do is smile back.
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
Curse Coalition
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Posted - 2006.08.03 11:17:00 -
[15]
This is why tux has said he is going to change inerita stabs, the current idea he is testing is mass reduction. This will give extra agility and extra speed with AB/MWD but no extra speed without one.
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
Curse Coalition
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Posted - 2006.08.03 11:24:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Jahah Smith
Your ship will go into warp at 75% of max velocity (hence the trick with webbing a corp mates freighter to make it get into warp faster). So if you get a velocity bonus then your max speed is now higher and it takes that much longer for your ship to get into warp with nanos. Whereas inertial stabs do not have the velocity bonus so you turn faster (agility bonus) and get into warp faster than with nanos.
No true because acc is increased at the same rate as max speed.
Lets say you have a max speed for 150m/s and take 10 sec to warp, you then add a combination of overdrives and nanofibers (something like 5 overdrives and 1 nanofiber) so that they end up having no effect on agility. You now have a max speed of around 350m/s but even with over dubble the speed it will still take only 10 sec to warp. It's easy to test, have done so myself several times.
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Marine HK4861
Caldari
Seoltachd
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Posted - 2006.08.03 11:42:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Reithan
So, who, if anyone, actually structure tanks??
Chribba structure tanks his Revelation. 
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Lienzo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.08.03 14:59:00 -
[18]
The interesting thing about structure tank is you can involve all of your modules to do it.
The damage control and bulkheads occupy the lows.
The repper(s) occupy the mids, along with capacitor mods.
And you can fill the highs with nos.
I have no idea what sort of dps one could tank. It does seem unnecessarily lossy, and there is not the slightest contingency for anything non-dps related. CCP have a thing for making lowslots redundantly useless to get you to fill them up with the same mods (or WCS).
I would like that they release a big brother to the damage control for non-interceptor users, but with more substantial capacitor needs and no built-in limit. Structure tank, given the inherent agility damping, give a very solid I-am-not-going-anywhere-for-awhile feeling for slugging it out. A little more efficiency and you could add in ECCM for a good fleet slugfest.
Seven Deadly Sins
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asdfasdfafdsdsdfaaas
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Posted - 2006.08.06 19:38:00 -
[19]
pure agility will always make you go from a stand still to warping, quicker then a nano will.
the faster a nano makes you go the longer it takes you to go into warp, your tests are flawed if you havent caught this sorry.
The simple fact is, even though a nano has a higher value bonus to agility its max speed bonus negates the effect entirely.
Only the best Inert stabs will do though. Local Hulls.
I use these to get me into warp faster then my nano's on my gatecamp running friggys.
Seeing as it only saves you less then a second on a frigate, id suggest tests with fundamentally less agile ships, raven/hauler.
Also, if you still dont see any change, try facing the ship away from the direction you're planning on warping in, as you dont control your orientation to the next gate on your autopilot list once you've just come out of a gate. Seconds count on the gate camps. That will give you a worst case senario.
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