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Random Womble Emo Rangers Electric Monkey Overlords 14	Posted - 2014.09.14 18:13:00 - [1] - Quote It has just come to my attention the contrary to previous statements that CCP would not sell in game assets that would compete with the player driven market and production they are infact offering a limited number of items (as part of a set of "Add-ons" as well as their starter packs) in steam. Where this differs from previous offerings is that items have been only attainable through packs and not able to be player produced these new Add-on packs include standard ships Sigil, breacher, heron and Epithal, minerals, items like cargo expanders and blueprints (presumably BPCs) While the cost of these pack presumably makes them less efficient for getting the items than buying a plex the impact is potentially far worse and potentially the tip of a more direct pay to win iceberg. Perhaps i have missed the boat on this and perhaps not everyone else will be so enraged the links are as follows btw. http://store.steampowered.com/app/320551/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/320552/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/320553/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/320553/ no doubt i am well behind in this
Tom Gerard Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan 1347	Posted - 2014.09.14 18:14:00 - [2] - Quote PAY TO WIN BANTAMS! One of the oldest mission players in EVE designed a chart that explains stat priority in regards to mission running, compared Alpha, DPS, Ship Speed and Sig Radius and scores them. http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m24dbrfuWn1r86ax8o1_1280.jpg
Paranoid Loyd 1850	Posted - 2014.09.14 18:15:00 - [3] - Quote We already went over this. "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 12599	Posted - 2014.09.14 18:25:00 - [4] - Quote Random Womble wrote: While the cost of these pack presumably makes them less efficient for getting the items than buying a plex the impact is potentially far worse and potentially the tip of a more direct pay to win iceberg. Could you explain the connection between the first half and second half of the sentence? (1) they are a worse deal per dollar (2) none of the items received are anything but of the starter variety (3) all of them can be purchased in game I think these don't fit the definition of pay to win. What kind of "winning" is somebody enjoying after buying one of these packs? Can you provide an example? lol rolling on floor.. i would probably be laughing though.. not crying --Pepper the Penguin ~ And when the seasons change, will you stand by me? ~
AkJon Ferguson JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance 257	Posted - 2014.09.14 18:27:00 - [5] - Quote In principle this is wrong. While the value/quantity of stuff being magicked into existence is small, it sets a terrible precedent. CCP will probably point to this precedent later to justify far more sandbox-breaking, pay-to-win 'offers.'
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 12615	Posted - 2014.09.14 18:37:00 - [6] - Quote AkJon Ferguson wrote: In principle this is wrong. While the value/quantity of stuff being magicked into existence is small, it sets a terrible precedent. CCP will probably point to this precedent later to justify far more sandbox-breaking, pay-to-win 'offers.' Can you tell me the difference between the example below and the OP's links? http://venturebeat.com/2014/02/02/the-elder-scrolls-online-imperial-vs-standard-edition-preorder-comparison/ lol rolling on floor.. i would probably be laughing though.. not crying --Pepper the Penguin ~ And when the seasons change, will you stand by me? ~
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 24552	Posted - 2014.09.14 18:48:00 - [7] - Quote This has been discussed many times over. This is no different than the starter packs they've offered before (aside from being rather bad deals in terms of what you get for your money). The impact on the market is zero. The impact on the game is zero. The impact on competition is zero. The attractiveness for new players is +¦ GÇö not much, but it probably helps. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
Glathull Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 684	Posted - 2014.09.14 18:54:00 - [8] - Quote Sometimes you really have to work hard to track down the source of the problems. Untangling everything can be so difficult. When I'm working really hard trying to track down the source of a conspiracy, I find that it helps a lot to put on a hat I had made especially for this situation. It calms me, soothes me, and it's orange with white letters across the front that say TINFOIL. After I put on my hat, and I am calm, I just have to ask myself, "Qui Butthurt?" And everything falls into place. I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Solecist Project 9918	Posted - 2014.09.14 18:57:00 - [9] - Quote Hm... maybe start a female Trucker and honour Tippia with it ... ... but then there's this huge weird sexual flavour I would add ... ... because Truckers are lonely all the time...... ... flying through space, only their coms that give them company ...... .... and suddenly, a whole universe inflates inside my imagination .... .... Amarrian, female Trucker ...... oooohhhhhhhh yessss ............. snickers xD sips green tea with honey (: :)
Shirley Serious Gutter Press 92	Posted - 2014.09.14 18:59:00 - [10] - Quote Tippia wrote: This has been discussed many times over. This is no different than the starter packs they've offered before (aside from being rather bad deals in terms of what you get for your money). The impact on the market is zero. The impact on the game is zero. The impact on competition is zero. The attractiveness for new players is +¦ GÇö not much, but it probably helps. Not entirely zero impact. But probably not a significant impact. These starter packs, offer clothing items, some of which were previously only available for a brief time for a promotional boxed copy of EVE in i think Russia (the red/gold female coat), or on the EVE Collectors edition box (the green/gold coats). As time goes by, then those items would have increased supply, and probably drop in prices. Other than that, vOv
Ssabat Thraxx Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project 514	Posted - 2014.09.14 19:12:00 - [11] - Quote This is the greatest miscarriage of all that is good, proper, and fair since they put OJ in jail! Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
Azami Nevinyrall Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 2001	Posted - 2014.09.14 19:18:00 - [12] - Quote Quote: The Colonist Add-On Pack includes: The Epithal industrial ship A full set of skillbooks and equipment to kit out and fly your ship Cargo expander modules to increase your shipGÇÖs cargo capacity Command Centers for creating planetary colonies Avatar apparel: male GÇ£EsquireGÇ¥ and female GÇ£ExecutorGÇ¥ coats (red/gold) Yes, game breaking stuff right here!!! EVE needs more Pssshhhh
Indahmawar Fazmarai 2915	Posted - 2014.09.14 19:44:00 - [13] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Hm... maybe start a female Trucker and honour Tippia with it ... ... but then there's this huge weird sexual flavour I would add ... ... because Truckers are lonely all the time...... ... flying through space, only their coms that give them company ...... .... and suddenly, a whole universe inflates inside my imagination .... .... Amarrian, female Trucker ...... oooohhhhhhhh yessss ............. snickers xD sips green tea with honey Time to say that your current avatar is one of the most sexually suggestive I've seen ever. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
Solecist Project 9918	Posted - 2014.09.14 19:50:00 - [14] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Time to say that your current avatar is one of the most sexually suggestive I've seen ever. I am happy to say that I finally started enjoying your thread in OOPE... (: Tiny steps... And thanks... :) (: :)
J'Poll CDG Playgrounds 4467	Posted - 2014.09.14 20:15:00 - [15] - Quote Random Womble wrote: It has just come to my attention the contrary to previous statements that CCP would not sell in game assets that would compete with the player driven market and production they are infact offering a limited number of items (as part of a set of "Add-ons" as well as their starter packs) in steam. Where this differs from previous offerings is that items have been only attainable through packs and not able to be player produced these new Add-on packs include standard ships Sigil, breacher, heron and Epithal, minerals, items like cargo expanders and blueprints (presumably BPCs) While the cost of these pack presumably makes them less efficient for getting the items than buying a plex the impact is potentially far worse and potentially the tip of a more direct pay to win iceberg. Perhaps i have missed the boat on this and perhaps not everyone else will be so enraged the links are as follows btw. http://store.steampowered.com/app/320551/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/320552/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/320553/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/320553/ no doubt i am well behind in this So wow....you get items worth about 1 mil ISK. YEAH REAL Pay2Win is here Personal channel: *Crazy Dutch Guy* Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road
JC Anderson State Protectorate Caldari State 1129	Posted - 2014.09.14 20:17:00 - [16] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: Hm... maybe start a female Trucker and honour Tippia with it ... ... but then there's this huge weird sexual flavour I would add ... ... because Truckers are lonely all the time...... ... flying through space, only their coms that give them company ...... .... and suddenly, a whole universe inflates inside my imagination .... .... Amarrian, female Trucker ...... oooohhhhhhhh yessss ............. snickers xD sips green tea with honey Put on a shirt!
La Rynx School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 59	Posted - 2014.09.14 20:30:00 - [17] - Quote Buy Plex, Sell for ISK, get more stuff than those packages. Forum Main
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp 5841	Posted - 2014.09.14 20:56:00 - [18] - Quote La Rynx wrote: Buy Plex, Sell for ISK, get more stuff than those packages. Or simply do some tutorial missions and get even more for free. Must be a slow conspiracy day for EVE. If you like EVE Online and War Thunder content stop by my YouTube channel.-á Ranger 1 Presents https://www.youtube.com/user/Ranger1Presents
Solecist Project 9921	Posted - 2014.09.14 21:37:00 - [19] - Quote JC Anderson wrote: Put on a shirt! Why don't you ........................ ....................... take yours off? ;) (: :)
Grog Aftermath Need more grog 109	Posted - 2014.09.14 22:27:00 - [20] - Quote So op you feel this is the start of pay-to-win. Well, too early to say. Might be the start of seeing more items being sold, but even that might not turn out to be pay-to-win. I did actually notice those packs whilst browsing one website (not Steam) that was selling them. Would be great if you got 3 mil sp to use as you will in a starter pack, it would get you into your profession quicker.
Carmen Electra SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 5968	Posted - 2014.09.14 23:30:00 - [21] - Quote OP, so tl;dr do you want me to be mad? I can be mad if u want me to be. eve is not dying
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 12665	Posted - 2014.09.15 00:15:00 - [22] - Quote All I see is snipe.. lol rolling on floor.. i would probably be laughing though.. not crying --Pepper the Penguin ~ And when the seasons change, will you stand by me? ~
GordonO The Oasis Group 64	Posted - 2014.09.15 00:19:00 - [23] - Quote Pay to win has been here for a while now.. buy plex.. but a character .. buy more plex, sell in game.. and buy stuff.. .
Rain6637 Team Evil 18892	Posted - 2014.09.15 00:22:00 - [24] - Quote the coats aren't available on NES, so the clothing items were free for the rest of us. the other things... command centers... lol. really don't care what people do with command centers. it could involve different items and be pay to win, but in this case it's pay to do the same thing everyone else can do for free. if this ever goes 7its up, the even better thing than unsubbing is continuing to play using plex harvested from PVE. we can all play the magic isk faucet game. there are plenty of ISK sources that can be scaled to accomodate all of eve President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Rainfleet on Twitch \| Twitter \| Rainfleet mk.III \| Imgur
Ranger 1 Ranger Corp 5847	Posted - 2014.09.15 00:26:00 - [25] - Quote GordonO wrote: Pay to win has been here for a while now.. buy plex.. but a character .. buy more plex, sell in game.. and buy stuff.. ... all of which are available to anyone in game without paying a cent. Pay to win? Not so much. If you like EVE Online and War Thunder content stop by my YouTube channel.-á Ranger 1 Presents https://www.youtube.com/user/Ranger1Presents
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 5184	Posted - 2014.09.15 00:34:00 - [26] - Quote Azami Nevinyrall wrote: Quote: The Colonist Add-On Pack includes: The Epithal industrial ship A full set of skillbooks and equipment to kit out and fly your ship Cargo expander modules to increase your shipGÇÖs cargo capacity Command Centers for creating planetary colonies Avatar apparel: male GÇ£EsquireGÇ¥ and female GÇ£ExecutorGÇ¥ coats (red/gold) Yes, game breaking stuff right here!!! Also, if I remember correctly, didn't those coats go out to a whole bunch of people for Christmas last year or something? I had was, Rem was wearing it for ages.... until I noticed everyone else wearing it as well, anyway. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard Shock Treatment Ministries 5184	Posted - 2014.09.15 00:39:00 - [27] - Quote GordonO wrote: Pay to win has been here for a while now.. buy plex.. but a character .. buy more plex, sell in game.. and buy stuff.. And what is it that you win doing things this way? Cuz a newbro who knows nothing about the game sure won't accomplish much. Also, it's not pay to win. Let me tell you why. Whatever brief, marginal advantage throwing a bunch of money at the game does for one guy, there's always a blob out there somewhere full of people who spent a fraction of what he did in a Tornado gang waiting to take what he spent all that money on away from him, permanently. That's right, you got it. Permaloss = not pay to win. Once it's gone, you ain't getting it back. Ain't no 'binding' or 'collections' in EVE like in SWTOR. Once that ship pops, and thos officer modules drop, they're gone for good - unless you dump another thousand bucks into it or somesuch... Anyway, EVE is less "pay to win" than it is "pay at your own risk". GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
DaReaper Net 7 The Last Brigade 952	Posted - 2014.09.15 00:40:00 - [28] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: Azami Nevinyrall wrote: Quote: The Colonist Add-On Pack includes: The Epithal industrial ship A full set of skillbooks and equipment to kit out and fly your ship Cargo expander modules to increase your shipGÇÖs cargo capacity Command Centers for creating planetary colonies Avatar apparel: male GÇ£EsquireGÇ¥ and female GÇ£ExecutorGÇ¥ coats (red/gold) Yes, game breaking stuff right here!!! Also, if I remember correctly, didn't those coats go out to a whole bunch of people for Christmas last year or something? I had was, Rem was wearing it for ages.... until I noticed everyone else wearing it as well, anyway. yes my 'bank' alt has them either x-mas or with the SD:SE i forget which OMG Comet Mining idea!!! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=331766
Carmen Electra SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 5968	Posted - 2014.09.15 00:44:00 - [29] - Quote Sibyyl wrote: All I see is snipe.. GÖÑ eve is not dying
Crumplecorn Eve Cluster Explorations 1272	Posted - 2014.09.15 00:56:00 - [30] - Quote GordonO wrote: Pay to win has been here for a while now.. buy plex.. but a character .. buy more plex, sell in game.. and buy stuff.. Well, the fact that the gameis not pay to win has been elaborated upon already, all I'll add is that you can't pay to win in a game you can't win. The more popular model than pay to win these days is pay to progress faster. EVE does have this in a sense, however unlike for example War Thunder, the progression system in EVE is not a tacked on grind to get to the 'good stuff' that makes the game a chore to play to encourage you to pay, rather it is what makes the game an RPG, and the good stuff is found at all levels. So really, even if you do buy characters or whatever, you're not really progressing faster, you're just cutting out some of the substance of the game to get to the bigger explosions faster, doing no-one but yourself a disservice in the process. [witty image] - Stream
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE 630	Posted - 2014.09.15 00:56:00 - [31] - Quote Sibyyl wrote: Random Womble wrote: While the cost of these pack presumably makes them less efficient for getting the items than buying a plex the impact is potentially far worse and potentially the tip of a more direct pay to win iceberg. Could you explain the connection between the first half and second half of the sentence? (1) they are a worse deal per dollar (2) none of the items received are anything but of the starter variety (3) all of them can be purchased in game I think these don't fit the definition of pay to win. What kind of "winning" is somebody enjoying after buying one of these packs? Can you provide an example? it creates something from nothing which can be an issue. That said, I'm pretty sure you can get most of those items by doing the career missions and the value created is very small. So more or less the response is don't care. You can trust me, I have a monocole
Rain6637 Team Evil 18895	Posted - 2014.09.15 01:13:00 - [32] - Quote sib, this is the pay to win process involving inconsequential items. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Rainfleet on Twitch \| Twitter \| Rainfleet mk.III \| Imgur
Carmen Electra SniggWaffe WAFFLES. 5969	Posted - 2014.09.15 01:16:00 - [33] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: sib, this is the pay to win process involving inconsequential items. These new robot arms helped me beat you in arm wrestling the other day. If that's not P2W, then I don't know what is. eve is not dying
Rain6637 Team Evil 18896	Posted - 2014.09.15 01:21:00 - [34] - Quote please don't involve me in non-consensual RP. we never armwrestled. President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Rainfleet on Twitch \| Twitter \| Rainfleet mk.III \| Imgur
Varesk Origin. Black Legion. 590	Posted - 2014.09.15 01:45:00 - [35] - Quote Random Womble wrote: It has just come to my attention the contrary to previous statements that CCP would not sell in game assets that would compete with the player driven market and production they are infact offering a limited number of items (as part of a set of "Add-ons" as well as their starter packs) in steam. Where this differs from previous offerings is that items have been only attainable through packs and not able to be player produced these new Add-on packs include standard ships Sigil, breacher, heron and Epithal, minerals, items like cargo expanders and blueprints (presumably BPCs) While the cost of these pack presumably makes them less efficient for getting the items than buying a plex the impact is potentially far worse and potentially the tip of a more direct pay to win iceberg. Perhaps i have missed the boat on this and perhaps not everyone else will be so enraged the links are as follows btw. http://store.steampowered.com/app/320551/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/320552/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/320553/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/320553/ no doubt i am well behind in this if you play eve, you will look at those and laugh, first for using steam then for the stuff you get. its nice to see CCP is trying to help new players with some stuff. when i started, along with so many others in this game, you only got a rookie ship and 1 unit of trit.
Sibyyl Gallente Federation 12674	Posted - 2014.09.15 02:09:00 - [36] - Quote Rain6637 wrote: please don't involve me in non-consensual RP. we never armwrestled. Watchlisted for CQ pillow fight. lol rolling on floor.. i would probably be laughing though.. not crying --Pepper the Penguin ~ And when the seasons change, will you stand by me? ~
Jur Tissant Unreal Darkness 238	Posted - 2014.09.15 02:11:00 - [37] - Quote Oh no, I can pay $5 for an Epithal, cargo extenders (on an Epithal?), cheap skills and some clothes. Today EVE died.
Rain6637 Team Evil 18910	Posted - 2014.09.15 02:31:00 - [38] - Quote Sibyyl wrote: Rain6637 wrote: please don't involve me in non-consensual RP. we never armwrestled. Watchlisted for CQ pillow fight. phancas only. no bougie vise allowed President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub \| Rainfleet on Twitch \| Twitter \| Rainfleet mk.III \| Imgur
Avaelica Kuershin University of Caille Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2014.09.15 04:31:00 - [39] - Quote GordonO wrote: Pay to win has been here for a while now.. buy plex.. but a character .. buy more plex, sell in game.. and buy stuff.. I got the impression that was "pay for lossmail"
Derrick Miles EVENumbers 6812	Posted - 2014.09.15 04:56:00 - [40] - Quote AkJon Ferguson wrote: In principle this is wrong. While the value/quantity of stuff being magicked into existence is small, it sets a terrible precedent. CCP will probably point to this precedent later to justify far more sandbox-breaking, pay-to-win 'offers.' I agree, the items themselves are obviously mostly trivial in these packs, but in the future if limited edition items are sold as dlc? PLEX was designed as the one item you could buy out of game and so it has a vibrant market. Competition would dilute that and though it obviously wouldn't be pay to win, it's still buying in-game items directly with cash.
Sobaan Tali Caldari Quick Reaction Force 357	Posted - 2014.09.15 05:00:00 - [41] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: JC Anderson wrote: Put on a shirt! Why don't you ........................ ....................... take yours off? ;) I like where this is going. Please, continue...
Indahmawar Fazmarai 2919	Posted - 2014.09.15 06:56:00 - [42] - Quote Sobaan Tali wrote: Solecist Project wrote: JC Anderson wrote: Put on a shirt! Why don't you ........................ ....................... take yours off? ;) I like where this is going. Please, continue... For assorted weirdness, OOPE. For softcore in character erotism, TGFB. The Greater Fool Bar-áis now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden!-áIngame chat channel: The Greater Fool Bar
Xtreem Knockaround Guys Inc. Sin City Coalition 212	Posted - 2014.09.15 07:33:00 - [43] - Quote If it gets more people playing by helping them at the start of Eve, then i am all for it tbh. Seems you can't win EVE IS DYING on one side OMG HELPING NEW PLAYERS on the other
Chinwe Rhei Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 104	Posted - 2014.09.15 07:34:00 - [44] - Quote I'm outraged that you can get like maybe 10 million worth of useable stuff at most for the price of a PLEX. Outraged ! Well that and some coats.
Vera Algaert Republic University Minmatar Republic 1388	Posted - 2014.09.15 08:36:00 - [45] - Quote GordonO wrote: Pay to win has been here for a while now.. buy plex.. but a character .. buy more plex, sell in game.. and buy stuff.. This isn't about Pay2Win, it's about CCP breaking the economic sandbox. PLEX may be P2W but it doesn't spawn assets from thin air. Sadly, we're already so far down the slippery slope ("starter packs" etc) that nobody cares about the integrity of the sandbox anymore. .
Solecist Project 9927	Posted - 2014.09.15 08:41:00 - [46] - Quote Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: Sobaan Tali wrote: Solecist Project wrote: JC Anderson wrote: Put on a shirt! Why don't you ........................ ....................... take yours off? ;) I like where this is going. Please, continue... For assorted weirdness, OOPE. For softcore in character erotism, TGFB. That's true. OOPE is full of weirdness with no brains behind ... ... but TGFB is actually quite erotic. Now even with paragraphs! For everything sensual and real-time related ... oh man I really need to get out of my bed .......... (: :)
Vyl Vit 762	Posted - 2014.09.15 10:11:00 - [47] - Quote Now who in the world would bring such a thing to your attention, your highness...or majesty...whichever...hmmmm? Anyone with any sense has already left town.
Solecist Project 9935	Posted - 2014.09.15 10:28:00 - [48] - Quote Vyl Vit wrote: Now who in the world would bring such a thing to your attention, your highness...or majesty...whichever...hmmmm? Are you talking to me? :/ (: :)
Absolutely Not Analt Caldari Provisions Caldari State 123	Posted - 2014.09.15 14:30:00 - [49] - Quote Avaelica Kuershin wrote: GordonO wrote: Pay to win has been here for a while now.. buy plex.. but a character .. buy more plex, sell in game.. and buy stuff.. I got the impression that was "pay for lossmail" Well someone is winning...seems odd to pay for someone else to win though. Eve is a multi player game.-áAnd you are the content. - Ralph King-Griffin Being meh at two things is not better than being great at one. - Lugh Crow-Slave
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 24571	Posted - 2014.09.15 14:40:00 - [50] - Quote Vera Algaert wrote: This isn't about Pay2Win, it's about CCP breaking the economic sandbox. GÇªbut they're not doing that either. Again, this is no different than giving newbies a frigate during the tutorial. In fact, it's even less than that, since the tutorial stuff is handed out en masse and this isn't. Quote: To think that just merely years ago people were ready to lynch CCP for spawning Scorpion hulls out of thin air. That's because what they were suggesting would break the sandbox in new and interesting ways: specifically, insert money, get (huge amounts of) minerals to wherever you want whenever you want. So it's pretty much entirely unlike what we have in this case. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
Ssabat Thraxx Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project 534	Posted - 2014.09.15 14:42:00 - [51] - Quote Grog Aftermath wrote: Would be great if you got 3 mil sp to use as you will, as part of a starter pack, it would get you into your profession quicker. Yeah, that'd be cool, and I wouldnt have a probkem with it. I think the basic idea is how those cerebral accelerators work, although it sure seems like a lot of people sell them. vov Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
Erika Tsurpalen SoulFire Gaming The Alliance of The Eternal Flame 8	Posted - 2014.09.15 17:52:00 - [52] - Quote -ú4 for a few million worth of basic stuff? CCP you sly bastards. Someone tell the newbies for -ú15 they can get 800mil and they will flip their ****.

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