|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Capqu
Love Squad
Pasta Syndicate
638
   |
Posted - 2014.09.17 23:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
good crow changes imo, but it should get some fitting to compensate the dmg bonus turning into a launcher. it's good that it's being moved away from best at literally everything and thus ships like the stiletto as a 4 mid 3 low tackler might actually see use again
the malediction doesnt really need the rof nerf to lmls, i think a more appropriate change would be changing the bonus to damage/level instead of rof and slightly buffing rocket damage if you want people to actually use them
raptor changes are great, it was complete **** compared to the ranis but the 4th mid will probably make it viable in a lot of situations
ares changes idk, i really liked the initial version with split weapons and double damage bonuses to both
mass changes are irrelivant
when you say rof reduction, i assume you mean a dps decrease as lmls are pretty dominant in frigate/destroyer sized fleets - so it's reasonable.
4 stars
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpMiT5qpyI |
Capqu
Love Squad
Pasta Syndicate
638
|
Posted - 2014.09.17 23:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
following up on why the malediction restriction really isn't needed:
http://puu.sh/bDlY8/7bdd0cf571.jpg
current top ships on zkb
stiletto is even on the list despite it's current state but malediction is not. the lml nerf alone nerfs the ship enough if you really think it needs one, but honestly it isn't seeing widespread use for a reason. the range bonus on the crow is one of the reasons it excels and lacking it puts the malediction at a distinct disadvantage in a lot of situations.
the tank bonus on the malediction is often irrelevant and the end result in restricting it would be a ship with half a bonus that never sees any use
i personally love the current malediction, and used to use it all the time to kill ratters with a friend - which would not be possible or even close to possible with rockets. the sole reason a crow could not do it was being locked into a damage type, which is going to be removed post patch. sure it's going to need creative fitting but the role will remain
the current malediction also does not overlap with the crow at all, the difference between a 30km range armor lml ceptor and a 60km shield lml ceptor is huge
it just feels like a change aimed at making rockets viable, as opposed to a tweak for the malediction - rockets currently are in a very bad state for this role in particular and i can't see the malediction being used with anything but 125mm gattling autos if this change went through. unless you are planning significant rocket fitting adjustments it just doesn't make sense to fit them over lmls and removing the lml bonus is not the solution to that problem
tldr plz dont nerf the malediction for no reason
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpMiT5qpyI |
Capqu
Love Squad
Pasta Syndicate
639
|
Posted - 2014.09.18 00:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
Reagalan wrote:The crow change does not go nearly far enough, and by that I mean, it doesn't do what it needs to.
The problem with the crow and malediction is their extreme range. Not the dps, not the tank, not the mobility; it's the range that lets them kite all the other interceptors to death and practically everything else as well. It's the range that has driven them to the top.
The malediction fix (by applying its bonus only to rockets) is entirely reasonable and does do what it needs to, nerfs the range of the malediction. This should fix it.
This crow fix does not do that. This crow fix merely increases the amount of time needed for a crow to kill something. For some reason it has even gained a damage bonus against small targets, which will make this ship even higher on the interceptor ladder.
No changes to LMLs were needed (which also affect hawks and kestrels and other not-broken-at-all ships). No changes to the slot layout, none of this. The crow can be fixed by doing to it what was done with the malediction: make the bonus only apply to rockets.
That was all you needed to do.
idk i think you're overestimating this whole "kite to death" ****
the raisin the crow is so overpowered is it's a stiletto (read: 4 mids, 3 lows) with 60km range
the malediction is not in the same boat because it cannot fit the standard fleet tackle setup (mse, mwd, point, scram) and fitting a plate generally means gimping yourself in other ways (less nanos due to maux, guns instead of missiles etc). as a fleet ship the malediction can be strong sure but it is not format warping in the same way the crow is, as evidenced by killboards everywhere. being armor comes with inherent disadvantages but i won't go into that because i don't think its relevant to the malediction alone
crow needed nerfs because right now there is no reason to get into the old "king of tackle" aka the stiletto because it does literally the same things but also shoots 70 dps to 60km.
the malediction does not have the same impact, and would be receiving the 6%~ rof nerf anyway. the restriction just seems heavy handed and like it's been thrown in with the crow, when it really doesn't deserve to be.
i agree with you about the crow and i think these (very significant) nerfs will go a long way. it loses a damage bonus, gains a useless high and loses a low. end result will be a much weaker, much slower ship with the advantage of 60km range - the stiletto can once again compete as king of tackle with its pathetic armaments and is a good tradeoff in terms of speed etc vs application
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpMiT5qpyI |
Capqu
Love Squad
Pasta Syndicate
639
|
Posted - 2014.09.18 00:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Legetus Shmoof Metallii wrote:Yay Raptor Buff! I always preferred it to the Crow anyways... but I'm a crazy man... up until now!
they're completely different ships with completely different roles and you shouldn't compare them directly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpMiT5qpyI |
Capqu
Love Squad
Pasta Syndicate
642
|
Posted - 2014.09.18 00:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
t3hWarrior wrote:Why are the ceptors getting so many changes when the Ishtar is so overpowered and broken?
this is a very good question
why isn't the crow getting a 2.5% per level nerf? would solve everything right
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpMiT5qpyI |
Capqu
Love Squad
Pasta Syndicate
647
|
Posted - 2014.09.18 02:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
Powers Sa wrote:Capqu wrote:following up on why the malediction restriction really isn't needed: http://puu.sh/bDlY8/7bdd0cf571.jpgcurrent top ships on zkb stiletto is even on the list despite it's current state but malediction is not. the lml nerf alone nerfs the ship enough if you really think it needs one, but honestly it isn't seeing widespread use for a reason. the range bonus on the crow is one of the reasons it excels and lacking it puts the malediction at a distinct disadvantage in a lot of situations. the tank bonus on the malediction is often irrelevant and the end result in restricting it would be a ship with half a bonus that never sees any use i personally love the current malediction, and used to use it all the time to kill ratters with a friend - which would not be possible or even close to possible with rockets. the sole reason a crow could not do it was being locked into a damage type, which is going to be removed post patch. sure it's going to need creative fitting but the role will remain the current malediction also does not overlap with the crow at all, the difference between a 30km range armor lml ceptor and a 60km shield lml ceptor is huge it just feels like a change aimed at making rockets viable, as opposed to a tweak for the malediction - rockets currently are in a very bad state for this role in particular and i can't see the malediction being used with anything but 125mm gattling autos if this change went through. unless you are planning significant rocket fitting adjustments it just doesn't make sense to fit them over lmls and removing the lml bonus is not the solution to that problem tldr plz dont nerf the malediction for no reason :^) you can still kill ratters with a malediction, only downside is now you have to fully commit and open yourself to getting **** on.
if you go within 15~ you dont have a wide enough orbit to avoid heavy drones, and heavy drones 1 shot ceptors if they are in range
i think the new crow will actually be really good for killing ratters tho, im not really concerned about that
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpMiT5qpyI |
Capqu
Love Squad
Pasta Syndicate
649
|
Posted - 2014.09.18 02:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Talvorian Dex wrote:
So... you're making it even safer for interceptors to travel by reducing the mass?
no. the fastest aligning ceptor now aligns slower (malediction)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpMiT5qpyI |
Capqu
Love Squad
Pasta Syndicate
670
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 16:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey guys. A few more updates to this plan.
We've added some more powergrid to the Raptor, adjusted the Malediction mass/velocity/inertia so that it performs better when plated or while turning with the prop mod on, and added a touch of speed to the Claw.
OP is updated.
are you going to completely ignore everything people have said about the rocket restriction or what
some kind of justification would be nice, and some reasonable use case for rockets on a malediction
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpMiT5qpyI |
Capqu
Love Squad
Pasta Syndicate
670
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 17:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Capqu wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey guys. A few more updates to this plan.
We've added some more powergrid to the Raptor, adjusted the Malediction mass/velocity/inertia so that it performs better when plated or while turning with the prop mod on, and added a touch of speed to the Claw.
OP is updated. are you going to completely ignore everything people have said about the rocket restriction or what some kind of justification would be nice, and some reasonable use case for rockets on a malediction it's actually pretty easy to understand the malediction has four lows, allowing it to achieve <2s align, making it literally impossible to catch having a 45km weapons platform with nearly perfect damage application on any target is hella overpowered forcing the hull into rockets requires pilots to engage at distances where a suitable counter-response can be applied if the goal of the malediction pilot is to kill things by itself
i think you missed the part where he said
-0.55 Inertia
addressing that issue
also the fact that it has exactly the same damage as the crow now means that a lml malediction would just be a crow with -1 mid +2 lows, and no range bonus, no application bonus and a useless armor bonus topped off by 6% reduced rof
that line of nerfs is so unnecessary i don't even know where to begin
this coming from the same balance team that thought -2.5% per level on a 10% bonus was enough to balance the most disgustingly overpowered ship in the game just solidifies the complete lack of thought that goes into anything balance related.
they just roll a dice and see where it lands and then try justify it afterwards while ignoring valid criticism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpMiT5qpyI |
Capqu
Love Squad
Pasta Syndicate
670
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 18:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:
inertia got reduced but mass also got increased
that's a bad thing
Promiscuous Female wrote:also the malediction has one less launcher than the crow post-oceanus so the damage is not exactly identical
3 launchers with 25% rof is exactly the same as 4 launchers dps, i'm saying there is no reason to restrict the male to rockets when the crow exists
Promiscuous Female wrote:
it's almost like the changes are specifically designed to reduce the viability of uncatchable interceptors
i'm fine with that, uncatchable is bullshit. but gutting the malediction into irrelevance is not the way to do it imo
i'd like the malediction to remain a threat to ratters basically, while just removing the uncatchability of them (make it so there is no possible way to align in under 2.5 s or w/e). i don't think removing the threat from ratters completely even while there is no-one actively camping for ceptors is a good thing.
and until rockets get a rework, especially in the fitting department, they aren't viable really for anything
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpMiT5qpyI |
|
|
Capqu
Love Squad
Pasta Syndicate
670
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 18:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:so you think instalocking gatecamps are a legit and good thing for the game
no but i think a straight up uncatchable interceptor is even worse
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpMiT5qpyI |
Capqu
Love Squad
Pasta Syndicate
670
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 20:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Capqu wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:also the malediction has one less launcher than the crow post-oceanus so the damage is not exactly identical 3 launchers with 25% rof is exactly the same as 4 launchers dps, 3 * 1.25 = 3.75 3.75 < 4 think, mcfly, think
sorry thats not how rof works, thats how a damage bonus would work
it's 3/0.75 as someone pointed out earlier
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpMiT5qpyI |
Capqu
Love Squad
Pasta Syndicate
670
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 20:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Capqu wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey guys. A few more updates to this plan.
We've added some more powergrid to the Raptor, adjusted the Malediction mass/velocity/inertia so that it performs better when plated or while turning with the prop mod on, and added a touch of speed to the Claw.
OP is updated. are you going to completely ignore everything people have said about the rocket restriction or what some kind of justification would be nice, and some reasonable use case for rockets on a malediction Want one? Historically khanid ships were supposed to use short range missiles only. So they can say LORE.
yea and that is a pretty good reason honestly, amarr do use rockets primarily - however i don't think game balance should be restricted by lore, and i don't think rockets are in a place right now where they can be considered as a primary weapon choice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpMiT5qpyI |
Capqu
Love Squad
Pasta Syndicate
672
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 00:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
even before bubble immunity I caught and subsequently had my fleet kill hundreds of ratters with ceptors
the ceptor bubble immunity is completely un-needed and all it does is reduce the actual skill required to play the game - and I say that as someone who has benefited from the change immensely
however the change to the malediction is completely unneeded when the crow is not being nerfed in the same way
if long range damage fleet tackle ceptors are a problem, none of them should have the damage. there is no reason for the crow to have 63km damage if 40km equivalent damage is "too strong" on the malediction. in fact even post change the crow has better slot layout for tackling (4 mids for fleet tackle is basically essential - the reason you saw 0 ares and infinite stilettos pre-ceptor first round changes). the malediction always had (and still has) its niche as a plated tackler but those are not common nor particularly desirable
i don't know what more i can say but i don't understand how anyone can look at the rocket restriction on the malediction and say "yep, that makes sense from a balance perspective" while considering the existence of the crow. it's just stupid, arbitrary change that will remove the malediction from the game in 90% of circumstances
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpMiT5qpyI |
Capqu
Love Squad
Pasta Syndicate
672
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 12:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:The Crow gets the ranged DPS but is losing the ability to be fitted for <2 second align, meaning it would be at least possible to catch it on a gate.
The issue with the Malediction was that it had the lows to fit for speed, with a range bonus to tackle, and a decent ranged weapon. The only thing the Malediction is really losing is the ability to do appreciable damage out past 20km. And given that it is a ship that can be fit for speed and bonused for tackle, no one should really care if it does any damage at all. It is still an very fast tackle frigate.
yeah maybe your right i dunno, i just really hate this nerfing ships into oblivion to counteract their uncatchability. imo no ship should be uncatchable in the first place but i guess with 1hz server ticks and bubble immunity on a frigate you're gonna run into those problems
i honestly wish they would just revert the bubble immunity. it makes interceptors way too common because they are just so much better than the alternatives no matter what for that reason and it also makes travelling in general in null way too easy
but thats never gonna happen so c'est la vie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpMiT5qpyI |
Capqu
Love Squad
Pasta Syndicate
676
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 13:37:00 -
[16] - Quote
rsantos wrote:I've hinted this before in this thread... The malediction bonus changes to only apply to rockets, and the range nerf, are made specifialy to stop people from going down to dekelin in malediction fleets and kill rating ships. Here is the a link for zkillboard of all the Heavy Assault Crusiers killed by Maledictions in Dekelin. https://zkillboard.com/ship/11186/group/358/region/10000035/The isthar is probaly the most used ratting ship in dekelin. The crow doesn't get the same treatment because rating ships in dekelin are tanked for kinetic damage and the isthar already has high base resists for kinetic. I would like to know the reasoning behind these changes... saying "Crow and Malediction (which are a bit too good in their light missile configurations currently)" to justify this nerf doesn't cut it... these change are not a "bit".
WHAT THERE IS A SHIP ABLE TO STAND UP TO MY ISTHAR????????????????
INTO THE GROUND
-ccp fozzie
time to wait another 12 pages for 3 non-posts that completely fail to address any concerns
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpMiT5qpyI |
Capqu
Love Squad
Pasta Syndicate
676
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 13:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
Phaade wrote:
Anyone who thinks that double tackle has any serious prevalence, surely has no place in a balance discussion thread.
jesus christ how did i miss this
https://zkillboard.com/character/331608676/topalltime/
oh ok now it makes sense, basically no experience flying interceptors, riding the crow wave
come back when you get good son
god damn my sides
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpMiT5qpyI |
Capqu
Love Squad
Pasta Syndicate
677
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 21:59:00 -
[18] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:rockets are ok. not everything can be grossly overpowered like light missiles.
rockets are garbage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpMiT5qpyI |
Capqu
Love Squad
Pasta Syndicate
685
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 20:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
patch notes out but you still wont even respond when everyone agrees the malediction changes are pointless
i know you don't do balance by consensus but actually communicating why you're doing something for once would be nice
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpMiT5qpyI |
Capqu
Love Squad
Pasta Syndicate
692
|
Posted - 2014.09.28 15:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
A tiny launcher that can carry a very limited supply of rockets. Not really intended as a primary weapon but rather as a cheap supplementary weapon system.
so when are you going to buff rockets if you intend them to be a primary weapon system now? everyone knows they are complete trash except for the person doing the balancing apparently, even the guy who writes the module descriptions knows more than fozzie lmao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpMiT5qpyI |
|
|
|
|
| |
|