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Ashvul
Amarr XenoTech The Fonz Presidium
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Posted - 2006.08.04 04:40:00 -
[1]
First of all, the stats in developement, but everyone is acting like they are final. The Rokh isn't going to be some magic pwn all fairy battleship from fantasy island that blows up everything in the grid it's on.
Rails themselves have relatively low damage compared to other guns. They are the in the middle between big hitting alpha strikes and steady paced pump you full of damage guns. The only advantage is it's naturally longer range. So why add on 50% extra range to the longest range gun in game, when it really needs extra damage?
Railguns without a damage bonus are just long range napkin dispensers. While a sniping thron won't outrange the Rokh, it will slightly outdamage it. Using t2 with spike, the Rokh can reach out and touch that 249km limit just a little bit more easily than the thron (woopedy do... who really needs to be 249km away to shoot something?). TBH, adding optimal range onto railguns isn't really needed (I'd even take a falloff bonus over optimal range).
Nobody really knows what the tier 3 battleships will be like when they come out, but I can tell you this with certainty: railguns aren't that hot.
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Cohkka
LoneWolf Mining R i s e
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Posted - 2006.08.04 05:00:00 -
[2]
And this thread was needed, cause? There are enough out there, it's getting annoying... Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Misty Peaks
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Posted - 2006.08.04 05:07:00 -
[3]
25km blasters....nuff said
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Hamatitio
Caldari Fate. Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2006.08.04 05:57:00 -
[4]
Imagine a blaster eagle.
Then imagine an uber blaster eagle.
Hey, its a rokh :). Although, I guess it only works if you like Beagles. I've only flown Beagles as my HAC for a while now, which is why I look forward to the rokh. ---
Originally by: Wrangler ...why do you people always have to verbally assault each other over things that doesn't matter anyway?
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Logan Xerxes
Shinra Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.04 06:03:00 -
[5]
I'd prefer the Rokh to ahve 10% range bonus rather than a damage bonus as it's an indirect damage bonus in some cases, eg, hitting with AM ammo at a range where another ship would be using lead.
PS: Caldari powah!
"Draw them in with the prospect of gain, take them by confusion." -Sun Tzu |
Talori'i
Gallente University of Caille
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Posted - 2006.08.04 06:12:00 -
[6]
Plans are they are going to be shortening range sometime in the future. So this will probably make it a more attractive bonus in the future.
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Nikolai Nuvolari
Caldari Gilead's Bullet Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.08.04 06:24:00 -
[7]
I don't understand why everybody isn't screaming "OH MY GOD THE ABADDON IS GOING TO CRUSH EVERYTHING!!!"
I mean seriously, the 250km targetting cap gimps the hell out of the Rokh to the point where it's just barely useful compared to other snipers...the only reason I'm excited is because I already have skills for Caldari battleships, shield tanking, and rails, so it fits me perfectly. If I had ALL skills, it wouldn't be nearly as appealing.
The Abaddon is the scary one...an RoF bonus on a laser ship that can fit 8x Tachyons easily? Holy hell that's scary. ------------------ Originally by: kieron Buy ISK for RL cash here!
Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
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Kcel Chim
Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five
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Posted - 2006.08.04 07:32:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ashvul
Rails themselves have relatively low damage compared to other guns.
Wrong
Quote:
They are the in the middle between big hitting alpha strikes and steady paced pump you full of damage guns. The only advantage is it's naturally longer range. So why add on 50% extra range to the longest range gun in game, when it really needs extra damage?
Railguns without a damage bonus are just long range napkin dispensers. While a sniping thron won't outrange the Rokh, it will slightly outdamage it. Using t2 with spike, the Rokh can reach out and touch that 249km limit just a little bit more easily than the thron (woopedy do... who really needs to be 249km away to shoot something?). TBH, adding optimal range onto railguns isn't really needed (I'd even take a falloff bonus over optimal range).
Nobody really knows what the tier 3 battleships will be like when they come out, but I can tell you this with certainty: railguns aren't that hot.
wrong again, the rokh has 8 guns compared to the megathron having 7 guns with 25% dmg bonus (at bs 5 mind you) which means a total firepower of 8,75 guns. difference roughly 10% less dmg on the rokh compared to the megathron. 1 damage mod will fix that difference where the megathron has to stick tracking computers or enhancers to gain the range of the rokh. Tracking at long range doesnt really matter that much (above 100km) and rails already have a good base tracking compared to Arties.
Last but not least optimal surely does matter, if your opponent comes in at 150km (which isnt rare these days) you will simply have to pack up and leave if u cant shoot that far. It also limits YOUR own options to get a fight (thats what its all about) significantly.
As other posters suggested fight a blaster eagle and imagine a bigger blastereagle with more meds... Scary thought.
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Valerian Xavier
Beagle Corp
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Posted - 2006.08.04 07:43:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Hamatitio Although, I guess it only works if you like Beagles.
Everyone loves Beagles
these whining/nerf threads are getting old considering that none of you have actually flown the ships.... --
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DigitalCommunist
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.04 07:52:00 -
[10]
Honestly, you need to go buy a calculator.
Its obvious you can't do the simple math needed to discover just how broken and overpowered the ship is. Everyone is freaking out because its very justified; the stats might be final. You saying they're not is no guarantee. If they do get changed, it will be because of massive rejection.
And btw, your certainty sucks. Railguns are hotter than hot.
Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame. |
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Kcel Chim
Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five
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Posted - 2006.08.04 08:04:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Kcel Chim on 04/08/2006 08:05:22
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari I don't understand why everybody isn't screaming "OH MY GOD THE ABADDON IS GOING TO CRUSH EVERYTHING!!!"
I mean seriously, the 250km targetting cap gimps the hell out of the Rokh to the point where it's just barely useful compared to other snipers...the only reason I'm excited is because I already have skills for Caldari battleships, shield tanking, and rails, so it fits me perfectly. If I had ALL skills, it wouldn't be nearly as appealing.
Are you forgetting that you spare the range upgrade slots other ppl need to use to get to 250km ? You know, noone forces you to pimp up your rokh to hit beyond 250km, instead you could use those slots and pg/cpu for something else. Scary thought isnt it ? (Rokh with bs 5 and t2 ammo has 215km optimal and 30km falloff without any enhancing mod... worst case you need 1 tracking comp or enhancer)
Quote:
The Abaddon is the scary one...an RoF bonus on a laser ship that can fit 8x Tachyons easily? Holy hell that's scary.
Yes really scary one, it will fire all 5 shots before its cap is eaten. Really scares the hell out of me. Not to mention that even with a 33% dmg boost (lvl 5 bs) it will only have 12,5% more firepower (due to its additional turret) compared to a tachyongeddon, just that the arma will use >50% less cap per salvo.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.04 08:33:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 04/08/2006 08:36:24
Originally by: Kcel Chim
Yes really scary one, it will fire all 5 shots before its cap is eaten. Really scares the hell out of me. Not to mention that even with a 33% dmg boost (lvl 5 bs) it will only have 12,5% more firepower (due to its additional turret) compared to a tachyongeddon, just that the arma will use >50% less cap per salvo.
Abaddon will have about 530 dps compared to Armageddons 470 (tach armageddon). But I really dont see why you are complaining. With that kind of dps, of course you cant fit a tank or last forever, that would be insanely overpowered. Have a look at the rest of the ships:
Sniper charts (note that arma uses megabeams, the chart was for another thread originally)
As you can see, only Amarr have fantastic dps when sniping. And for cap problems, im sure you are aware there are cap injectors that works pretty well. I mean, just tell me with a straight face that you think that dps is fair if you can keep dishing it out forever.. i dont think you can. :)
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Ithildin
Gallente The Corporation
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Posted - 2006.08.04 08:44:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Hamatitio Imagine a blaster eagle.
Then imagine an uber blaster eagle.
Hey, its a rokh :). Although, I guess it only works if you like Beagles. I've only flown Beagles as my HAC for a while now, which is why I look forward to the rokh.
I hereby trademark the EVE concept of the "Brook". BrooksÖ will pwn yoo all. Dark skies torn apart Heavens open before me I, the light of death |
Kcel Chim
Caldari Arcane Technologies The Five
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Posted - 2006.08.04 09:19:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Kcel Chim on 04/08/2006 09:23:44 Edited by: Kcel Chim on 04/08/2006 09:21:06
Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 04/08/2006 08:36:24
Originally by: Kcel Chim
Yes really scary one, it will fire all 5 shots before its cap is eaten. Really scares the hell out of me. Not to mention that even with a 33% dmg boost (lvl 5 bs) it will only have 12,5% more firepower (due to its additional turret) compared to a tachyongeddon, just that the arma will use >50% less cap per salvo.
Abaddon will have about 530 dps compared to Armageddons 470 (tach armageddon). But I really dont see why you are complaining. With that kind of dps, of course you cant fit a tank or last forever, that would be insanely overpowered. Have a look at the rest of the ships:
Sniper charts (note that arma uses megabeams, the chart was for another thread originally)
As you can see, only Amarr have fantastic dps when sniping. And for cap problems, im sure you are aware there are cap injectors that works pretty well. I mean, just tell me with a straight face that you think that dps is fair if you can keep dishing it out forever.. i dont think you can. :)
i stated in my orginal post already that the tier 3 will do 12,5% more dmg (backed up by your dps numbers) but with t2 crystals and the standard "fleetbattle" setup ull run out of cap quickly just firing your guns. So as i said, its good for ganks and not for prolonged battle. Im not complaining about that and i personally think its fairly balanced. DOT wise an Arma will beat it most likely after a minute of shooting. As the abaddon is out of cap (just firing guns and having tracking comps / sensorboosters running). That equals like 10-15 salvos (depending on the grid and cpu the abaddon has it might squeeze 2 caprelays in prolonging the phase to <80 seconds). An Arma could without any caprelays fire for 120+seconds making it 20-25 salvos.
Conclusion Abaddon DPS Armageddon DOT. Balanced and fine. Nothing to complain about. Abaddon has ~540 dps with 3 heatsinks t2 and maxed skills, good but not too outstanding either considering the short amount of time it has in combat. Arma has 470 dps. But Lasers have higher base damage anyways due to shooting em and thermal dmg. So u have to compare the damage on armor in fleetbattles as no ships are really shieldtanked and rather have EW fitted.
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Kazaam
Caldari Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2006.08.04 10:11:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Kazaam on 04/08/2006 10:14:51 Edited by: Kazaam on 04/08/2006 10:14:34 1/ Railguns are hot. I didn't give up Missiles for Rails for no reason.
2/ With the "Damocles' Sword" ( aka range nerf ) above snipers' head, Rokh's 10% optimal range will be some kind of FTW imo. Gotta love to use some better dmg outputting T1 ammo at optimal range where nearly every other sniping ship will still need to use Spike.
3/ Not to say, while the targetting range will still cap at 249kms, the Rokh could still stay even farther away from other enemy ships and snipe them without even getting scratched ( or slightly ). Imagine a Rokh at optimal range while the enemy could barely use his optimal+falloff, or even worse... pwnage.
4/ That "nerf" would be even great for sniping ships as you'll need less range enhancement mods ( Tracking Comps or Enhancers ), to possibly fit some other mods, such as, on the Rokh for instance, a better tank. _________________________________________
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DarK
STK Scientific
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Posted - 2006.08.04 10:13:00 -
[16]
Whatever OP.
I'm pretty excited at having a BS which can hit past 200km with no tracking mods, and has a base targetting range of 100km.
The rest of the slots can go toward a mean tank and 2 sensor boosters.
ftw if you ask me.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.08.04 11:01:00 -
[17]
Rokh is clearly too uber. 8x Miner IIs, Buff passive shield tanking for 0.0 spawns, and 'cos it's caldari, plenty of CPU for mining upgrades.
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Magunus
The Forsakened Few
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Posted - 2006.08.04 11:46:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ithildin
Originally by: Hamatitio Imagine a blaster eagle.
Then imagine an uber blaster eagle.
Hey, its a rokh :). Although, I guess it only works if you like Beagles. I've only flown Beagles as my HAC for a while now, which is why I look forward to the rokh.
I hereby trademark the EVE concept of the "Brook". BrooksÖ will pwn yoo all.
I nominate Blokh (block). It's slow, big, boxy, and hurts when you drop it. ---
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, 'The Restaurant at the End of the Universe' |
kirjava
Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.04 11:48:00 -
[19]
So, you are saying that this ship makes a good mining ship. Well imho it will not outmine my Hulk but its got promise. Has anyone seen what layout it has for the lowslots?
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Denrace
Amarr STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.04 12:02:00 -
[20]
Rails?
Whats a railgun?
Im putting Heavy Neutron Blaster II's on mine! ________________________________________
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