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mimik
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Posted - 2006.08.04 05:33:00 -
[1]
apologies if this has been suggested before but i haven't read all the previous threads on subject.
during EVE TV there was an interview with hellmar where they talked about stabs, his view was that they need to remain a viable module for travel rigs but should gimp combat setups.
that being the case why dont u just hit them with a big RoF penalty.
for travel setups RoF is irrelevant but would seriously gimp anyone trying to fight with them on.
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Wat0721
GalacTECH Unlimited
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Posted - 2006.08.04 05:43:00 -
[2]
Q: When the tier 3 BSes come out, will the maelstrom have a higher alpha than the 1400 II tempest?
If so, RoF penalty would be super duper, kkthx, b/c that ship is definitely not gonna be so hot for any actual tanking or fighting anyway; might as well try a one-volley and warp.
</flamebait> 
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ECM Fix |
eLLioTT wave
Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.04 06:51:00 -
[3]
i have said this before and it is very simple:
for every 1x wcs fitted:
-50% rof, -50% velocity, - 50% cap regen, -50% shield regen, -50% damage of all weapon systems, -50% tracking, -50% targetting range (you get the picture.
Fit 1 wcs, you REALLY dont want to fight in that ship, fit a few, forget even thinking about fighting.
Haulers/mining ships ect get bonus: no penaltys for wcs fitted
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mimik
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Posted - 2006.08.04 06:55:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Wat0721
Q: When the tier 3 BSes come out, will the maelstrom have a higher alpha than the 1400 II tempest?
If so, RoF penalty would be super duper, kkthx, b/c that ship is definitely not gonna be so hot for any actual tanking or fighting anyway; might as well try a one-volley and warp.
</flamebait>
this thread is far from being flamebait.
i think its a realistic idea that fits in with the stated view of ccp's ceo that wcs should be gimped for combat setups.
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Magonushi
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Posted - 2006.08.04 07:07:00 -
[5]
Why not just put a WCS option for the mid slots most haulers and barges don't require as much as their valuable low slots. For combat ships it's the other way around, but for civilian ships low slots are much more valuable than mediums.
For King and Kingdom, God favor Khanid. |
Emsigma
Contraband Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.08.04 07:54:00 -
[6]
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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.04 14:50:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Grey Area on 04/08/2006 14:51:33
Originally by: eLLioTT wave
i have said this before and it is very simple:
for every 1x wcs fitted:
-50% rof, -50% velocity, - 50% cap regen, -50% shield regen, -50% damage of all weapon systems, -50% tracking, -50% targetting range (you get the picture.
Fit 1 wcs, you REALLY dont want to fight in that ship, fit a few, forget even thinking about fighting.
Haulers/mining ships ect get bonus: no penaltys for wcs fitted
It's not your IDEA that's simple...
Seriously, why should a module that simply gives you the abiity to run away like a big chicken attract a more serious penalty than a Titan's superweapon? I'll tell you why...simply because you can't BEAR the though of one tiny little ship getting away from you.
And DON'T use Burn Eden's blitzkrieg tactics as justification...it's not as if there are hundreds of ninja assault squads out there with multi-WCS setups.
Seriously, get over it. There's always the next guy you can gank.
Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums;
Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?"
Cleese: "I've told you once." |
Foulis
Minmatar
Chosen Path
Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.08.04 15:28:00 -
[8]
Originally by: eLLioTT wave
-50% velocity, - 50% cap regen
Making travell Rigs impossible.
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Cake > Pie - Imaran
Originally by: CCP Hammer
Boobies
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eLLioTT wave
Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.04 15:31:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Foulis
Originally by: eLLioTT wave
-50% velocity, - 50% cap regen
Making travell Rigs impossible.
Reading level 5 ftw |
eLLioTT wave
Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.04 15:33:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Grey Area
Edited by: Grey Area on 04/08/2006 14:51:33
Originally by: eLLioTT wave
i have said this before and it is very simple:
for every 1x wcs fitted:
-50% rof, -50% velocity, - 50% cap regen, -50% shield regen, -50% damage of all weapon systems, -50% tracking, -50% targetting range (you get the picture.
Fit 1 wcs, you REALLY dont want to fight in that ship, fit a few, forget even thinking about fighting.
Haulers/mining ships ect get bonus: no penaltys for wcs fitted
It's not your IDEA that's simple...
Seriously, why should a module that simply gives you the abiity to run away like a big chicken attract a more serious penalty than a Titan's superweapon? I'll tell you why...simply because you can't BEAR the though of one tiny little ship getting away from you.
And DON'T use Burn Eden's blitzkrieg tactics as justification...it's not as if there are hundreds of ninja assault squads out there with multi-WCS setups.
Seriously, get over it. There's always the next guy you can gank.
You think a BS should be able to fit 5 of these and still able to fight / snipe? I have no problem with people fitting one or two currently (although i never would) but with T2 ammo snipers can still snipe with a full rack of stabs.
The problem? now you need 3 tacklers to get them and so the only way you can play is in gangs / with dictors. What happened to good old 1v1? wcs needs to have penalties, CCP agree. |
wierchas noobhunter
Caldari
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.08.04 15:46:00 -
[11]
god damnit WCS is fine lern how to play
join col ! now |
dust monkey
Minmatar
Tender Loving Care
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Posted - 2006.08.04 16:08:00 -
[12]
there is no problem with warp stabs, if i fit a warp stab on my ship im gimping it, either im reducing its dmg by having to remove a dmg mod, or im reducing my tanking ablity by removing a hardener etc. there is soo much better things that you can fit than a warp stab.
this is why you see some many ships warping away while beeing jammed, because they have gimped there set ups ( for fairish fights )
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Grey Area
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.04 17:19:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Grey Area on 04/08/2006 17:23:14
Originally by: eLLioTT wave
You think a BS should be able to fit 5 of these and still able to fight / snipe? I have no problem with people fitting one or two currently (although i never would) but with T2 ammo snipers can still snipe with a full rack of stabs.
The problem? now you need 3 tacklers to get them and so the only way you can play is in gangs / with dictors.
Amazing. You quote the "problem" then offer a perfectly workable solution to it, but refuse to take it.
Originally by: eLLioTT wave
What happened to good old 1v1? wcs needs to have penalties, CCP agree.
If CCP agree, then why the hell are you flapping your lips here?
Adding penalties to WCS (and particularly ridiculous ones like your "turn-every-BS-with-warp-stabs-into-a-shuttle" penalty) is using a sledgehammer to perform brain surgery. I agree that the whole issue of scrambling/stabbing needs review, but it's far more subtle than the approach of gimping either side of the argument so hellishly that no one would ever consider fitting them (which, be honest, is what you were trying to achieve).
In my opinion, scrambling shouldn't be a win/lose auction. A scrambler shouldn't hold a ship down FOREVER, it should simply massively increase the time it takes to warp. Conversely, stab's shouldn't allow a "get out of jail free" card, but should reduce the effect on the warp core that scramblers have...so for example (and i'm not suggesting these as real figures, just as a guideline)
Ship A fires one scrambler at Ship B with no stab: result...ship B spends 60 seconds getting in to warp.
Ship A fires one scrambler at Ship B with one stab: result...ship B spends 30 seconds getting into warp...if it had two stabs it would spend 15 seconds...three 7.5 seconds...etc
Ship A and B both fire a scrambler at ship C with one stab...Ship C spends 60 seconds again
Ship A and B both fire a scrambler at ship C with No stab...Ship C spends 90 seconds
In other words...modules countering other modules have full effect, modules that are ADDING to other module effects have only 50% effect.
I do believe there should be a random element to scrambling as well, which was minimised/maximised by skills...there should be a high probability of a player with level one warp scrambling only getting a 10 second warp scramble on a target...a player with level 5 would get 60 seconds 99.9% of the time. Same applies in reverse for stabs...a low skilled player might only shave 5% off a succesful 60 second warp delay, but a player with level 5 would get the full 50% reduction 99.9% of the time.
If there was a DELAY of warp instead of a PREVENTION, it would change the dynamics of warp scrambling greatly - people might pay more attention to their tank as it could enable them to survive the few seconds that they might need to get away.
Of course, scrambling gankers aren't going to like it, because they don't think ANY ships should EVER get away.
Monty Pythons spoof of the EVE Forums;
Palin: "Is this the right room for an argument?"
Cleese: "I've told you once." |
NumbaONE Gunna
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Posted - 2006.08.04 17:49:00 -
[14]
Jeebus H Christ WSC's are just fine. Think about it to get away from a *decent* warpjam you have to fit 3 wsc's on your ship.....wait a sec let it sink in for the dull ones.
3 wsc will gimp any friggin setup hardcore, who fits that many? I have no idea. I personally would fit no more than 2 on any ship. The fact of the matter is that currently it takes so many wsc's to counter a warpjam its silly. 2 WSC's can break away from a weak 20km warpjam. Which imo are R E T A R D E D if your a "pirate" who is complaining about wsc being overpowered your an idiot and need to be kicked outta eve all together. If your a npc'er who happened to get run into by a vaga and could not lock him down with your **** warpjam get over it. He knew what he was doing going into the battle.
*Best warpjam is 3 pointsl best WSC is one point*
Get over it you sh1t....
Minmatar are kind of like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair firing an uzi
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MyOwnSling
Gallente
New Hope Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.08.04 18:14:00 -
[15]
Edited by: MyOwnSling on 04/08/2006 18:14:39
While I think stabs are just fine the way they are, if there were to be a new system implemented, I would like the one Grey Area proposed (2 posts above). Makes it so that neither side of the fence has an absolute escape/scramble solution.
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Deeik
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.08.04 20:27:00 -
[16]
While i do think maybe (MAYBE) wcs need a lil nerf, some people are totally going overboard. WCSs should NOT effectively disable your ability to fight outright. That's crap. Hit and run etc should still be viable tactics. The problem as it is it's just too easy. So there needs maybe to be a slightly bigger drawback to fitting WCS than just the lost slot. However, the -50% to everything or turns your ship into a flying turd suggestions are ridiculous. combat ships SHOULD be able to fit WCSs, there just needs to be a bigger drawback for balance. ie a hit n run vehicle shouldn't fight AS well, but should still be able to.
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