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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.06 16:48:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Avon on 06/08/2006 16:48:54
Remidial annoys me.
When he stepped down I thought the Goons had turned a corner .. and then he forced his way back.
But, here is what really get me. The Goons seem to think that they are somehow better and more important than Eve and its other residents.
For example, they think is is okay to hack the game client because the GM's can't detect it, even though they know it is against the rules. That is bad enough, but then they flaunt the fact that they do it, rubbing it in the faces of the people who play within the rules.
The Goons have no respect for Eve as a game. They don't care how they corrupt what once was, because Eve should be their game.
They are like a virus, eating at the very heart of the community at large.
Those who dislike that in them, and point it out, are discredited as the 'old school' trying to repress them because they are different.
The don't care about Eve and its community, history, or even the setting of the game as a whole.
They want to be seperate from the rest of Eve, and that just can't work in the context of a single server universe.
They don't value what we value. They don't want to play Eve. They just want to play their own internet spaceship game, and to hell with anyone who wants Eve to be more than that.
When they crossed the line, they defended their right to do so because it was 'normal' for them, and could not (or would not) comprehend why that outraged so many people.
Their loyalty is to themselves, and not to Eve.
They have, however, brought things to a head.
The Goons will no longer be allowed to impose their community upon ours.
If they won't tolerate us, there is no need for us to tolerate them.
If they don't like the thought that the wishes of our community are every bit as valid as theirs, then tough, move on.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.08.06 17:15:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Brain Day
You are disgusting.
I am, or my opinion is?
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.08.06 17:18:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Captain Thunk
PS. For god's sake stop saying you speak for Eve community as a whole you arrogant clunk.
You made that claim, not I.
I clearly stated that it was my opinion.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.08.06 17:26:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Captain Thunk
The client modification as I understand it, is widely used for "war packs" which show war targets clearly in the local window. This is exploiting and ideally should lead to a ban. As I understand it Goonswarm do not do this, they use modified portraits to show their leaders - which provides absolutely no ingame advantage. I don't know the exact details, but I thought it was implanting pictures into the clients cache - not a client modification - the two are very different.
Originally by: EULA
You may not use your own or third-party software to modify any content appearing within the Game environment or change how the Game is played.
The goons cheat.
They don't even deny it, so why do you try to defend them?
Their justification is that it can not be detected, not that it is legal.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.08.06 17:31:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Captain Thunk
Edited by: Captain Thunk on 06/08/2006 17:22:23
You consistently refer to the community as "we" - you imply very strongly that you are speaking for all non-goon eve players. I'm just making sure you understand absolutely clearly you're not.
Eg:
Quote:
If they don't like the thought that the wishes of our community are every bit as valid as theirs, then tough, move on.
Edit for above example
Originally by: Avon
But, here is what really get me...
Clearly I am putting forward my opinion.
You can try and discredit me by trying to put your words in to my mouth, but to do so it is important you keep your foot out of yours.
My words are on record, so trying to claim I said something other that I actually posted is going to be pretty futile.
How about you try posting your opinions, rather than attacking mine?
The Goons are always banging on about freedom of speech, does that apply only to them?
Am I not to air my views in case I offend?
I thought everything was fair game?
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.08.06 17:37:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Captain Thunk
I said as far as I know it's only done to corp and alliance leaders and shows them in local with a different portrait - how is this cheating? how does this provide any advantage? Don't you think you're clutching at straws with this one?
As I understood it many corps DO do this to cheat, using war targets and so on.
But I've never actually tried it so I can't say with 100% certainty - have you?
CAPTAIN THUNK.
Firstly, you obviously haven't seen the screenshots I have seen, with allies and enemies clearly marked.
Secondly, it would make no difference anyway. No part of that rule states that you can modify how the game appears, so long as you don't gain an advantage, it says you can't do it period.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.08.06 17:39:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Captain Thunk
you simply talk of we the community as if your opinions correlate to everyone in eve who is not a goon.
Don't you think "I the community" may have sounded a little egotistical?
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.08.06 17:44:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Avon on 06/08/2006 17:45:44
Originally by: Captain Thunk
I've clarified that your opinion is in no way representative of the eve community as a whole so I'm satisfied.
CAPTAIN THUNK
Oh, so it is you that speaks for the community, not me?
Fair enough.
Good luck with that.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.08.07 20:14:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Devilish Ledoux
/me is amazed that this whine-fest has gone on so long even after the Goons stopped posting.
They just switched back to using alts.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.08.07 20:45:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Heldane
Edited by: Heldane on 07/08/2006 20:36:42
So now the story is that the sig was the 'last straw'?
I'm sorry but I don't recall hearing any previous reasons for this attempted genocide apart from something Remedial did over a year ago before GS's inception. From what the earlier posts by BoB members stated it was the ensuing insults post sig drama that brought this about. I am not in support of GS or their horrid slandering of the departed, but honestly as the days go by the BoB spin gets more and more inconsistant. GS has long since ceased commenting on the subject (likely due to a much needed gag order by their leadership since their posting barrage has all but stopped entirely) and BoB members still continue to argue and attempt to justify their position. This sort of action insinuates some level of deciet or untruthfullness behind their motives.
When I first read about GS's outrageous slandering of SirMolle's friend I was very much in BoB's moral corner. Now a little over a week later I am not so sure about the purity of their actions and this scourge campaign against the entirety of the GS fleet. I suppose I have the luxury of being on the outside looking in and can only speak on speculation, but as the time goes on and the self congratulatory backslapping, as well as the sheer arrogance displayed by many of BoB's members continues I am drawn to question much of what has transpired in a differant light.
Trust me, the whole thing was not the comming together of a master plan.
We had to cut short our planned ops, delaying them indefinately, in order to settle this score.
If you had access to the BoB forums you would know that the outrage was very real, and that it was not a staged excuse to attack the goons.
If we wanted to attack them, then we would have done so at a time that better suited us, and without it having to get all personal.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.08.08 00:07:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Heldane
Do not mistake my questions as sympathy for the goons. What was done by members of that organization after the fact was absolutley horrid and they deserved to be punished, but at this point it appears more like BoB is simply flexing its considerable muscle due more likely, in my humble opinion, to a slightly grandiose and inflammatory comment made by Remedial in that profanity laced diatribe called a speech that was released here concerning their war against D2 just days before this incident. If I recall correctly in said speech there was a bold statement concerning large alliances in general but going so far as to actually name BoB and thus aroused their ire.
Yeah, the speech annoyed a bunch of people. Not because it seemed threatening; let's face it, interesting though the Goons antics may have been, they couldn't really be considered a threat; but because of the style and wording used.
The title was pretty offensive .. and it went downhill from there.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.08.08 08:19:00 -
[12]
DC's post scores 10 out of 10 goldfish, with a castle thrown in as an extra bonus.
(Oh, and can we get all the alts removed from this thread please?)
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.08.08 13:35:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Antetma
Come down off of your high and mighty pedestals and do us all the favor of never hitting "Reply" again.
Well, at least they don't break the rules of this forum section if they do hit "Reply", unlike some...
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.08.08 14:20:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Antetma
This is my main thank you very much.
And I found my post to be about as constructive as DC's.
Self praise is no recommendation.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.08.08 17:13:00 -
[15]
This little 0.0 ideological debate is fun, but silly.
Both have their merits.
NBSI is proactive, and the "warm and friendly" approach is reactive.
NBSI is more effective when your space is less secure, but it is much more work intensive.
It is easier to only target those who directly threaten you, and it is also more efficient.
A reactive position is not weaker, but it definately requires more restraint.
NBSI is not better, because it fosters a repressive image, but it is effective.
I like the freespace concept, and it would be something worth working towards, but I don't think it is currently feasible (because it isn't really possible to build the required infrastructure under the current game mechanics).
NBSI, I think, is probably more a means to an end, rather than a workable long term goal, but it currently suits the nature of 0.0
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.08.09 11:21:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Captain Thunk
The signature guy was kicked from his alliance yet you still insist that you have the right to exorcise an entire group from the game?
Actually, he wasn't.
The Goons said they were going to do that because they thought it would avoid hostilities, not because they thought it the right thing to do.
When it became apparent that it would not have the intended goal (mostly because of the huge volumes of Goon posts defending him before the announcement that he would be removed), they stated that it was nothing more than an act of appeasement, and not in any way a sincere gesture.
Don't believe me?
Go back and read, rather than spouting your fantasy version of events.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.08.09 11:30:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Captain Thunk
he left his corp
No, he didn't.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.08.09 11:52:00 -
[18]
Look Thunk, you can try to spin it however you like; however if the sig had never existed, none of this would have happened.
You can dislike or mistrust BoB's reaction, but it was just that, a reaction.
Ultimately, you are trying to blame the effect, not the cause.
If you think the effect in some way justifies the cause, you seriously need to consider what you are saying.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.08.09 12:30:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Captain Thunk
BoB are perfectly free to wage war on Goonswarm, I'm not disputing that.
The problem is the outofgame nature of this particular war and what it holds for the future. Its setting a precedent of convenience for BoB, just because they've pledged to not do this themselves again and prevent anyone else from following in their footsteps does not excuse what they are doing, in fact makes it worse as it conceeds that what they are actually doing is wrong and they know it.
Warring the goons is perfectly legitimate and fine, but trying to grief them entirely out of the game is wrong on many levels.
CAPTAIN THUNK
Well, if they care then obviously Eve is more to them than just an internet spaceships game, and so their rhetoric is undone ... or if they don't care, why should you?
If they fail to disassociate themselves from cause, then they are seen as condoning it, and so it is perfectly fair to hold each and every member equally responsible.
Besides, they say they like shooting at internet spaceships, so we are doing them a favour, right?
(If only they would actually back that claim up)
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.08.09 12:41:00 -
[20]
If they don't agree with the image their alliance paints of itself (and it is the image they paint, not one we paint them with - you should sit in local with these guys), they should leave.
Guilt by association.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2006.08.09 13:55:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Captain Thunk
You two are possibly the most sane pair I've so far encountered in these here forums. Thanks for the replies guys.
So in conclusion (my conclusions noone elses)
With BoBs inability to sing from the same hymm sheet as to actually why they are so pi**ed off it does indeed look as if they have used every trick in the book (which is legal and fair to do in the world of Eve) in order to have a reason to attack Goonswarm.
Because of the inconsistency's I and others have pointed out in past posts, the reality is that Goonswarm achieved not a success, but more than anyone anticipated with the D2 campaign. BoB in it's wisdom have calculated what could happen in a years time, particularly if Goonswarm were to establish links with other big league entities such as ASCN, and have decided to annihilate them now rather than be in the embarrassing situation of potentially fighting a battle that becomes long and drawn out further down the line inviting more enemies to participate while BoB is occupied.
MAN! I am loving this political intrigue stuff! I'm just gonna set long skills and post here for a year or two 
CAPTAIN THUNK
I tell you what Thunk, if that is what you want to believe, fine.
I would like for it to be true, because I love all that tinfoil hat stuff, but sadly it was nothing so clever.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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