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Instas: The Problem

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Peachy Peachpants	Posted - 2006.08.04 14:22:00 - [31] Originally by: Zeknichov Just make it take 10 seconds after warping to use a jumpgate. Still gives instas a use although they are no longer instas but rather 10secondAhs. That would screw people who fit for running gates and travelling, as they'd be sitting ducks for 10 secs regardless of what they fit. And it doesn't really adress the issue anyway.
Angry Sheep Amarr Aur0ra	Posted - 2006.08.04 14:26:00 - [32] Personally I think the problem is amazingly simple: 1. Activity is based around star gates 2. all of the above is about traffic at star gates - here is my take A: Gate to Gate travel has a 15 km bubble of range that you drop into B: A skill can limit this zone C: Add far more content at locations / beacons away from gates. D: remove local - you appear only if you speak So now with skill you donÆt need 5,000 BM for gate travel, but with content and location away from gates there is reason to go stalk / haunt these spots for prey. It's a Dog eat Dog World out there and I'm wearing Milky Bone underwear
Skawl GeoTech	Posted - 2006.08.04 14:28:00 - [33] Oveur has already said he wants to have a solution that keeps the travel time down for those people who are prepared to actively fly rather than using autopilot while increasing player vulnerability at gates. This would fit one requirement but not the other.
Peachy Peachpants	Posted - 2006.08.04 14:29:00 - [34] Originally by: Angry Sheep Personally I think the problem is amazingly simple: 1. Activity is based around star gates 2. all of the above is about traffic at star gates - here is my take A: Gate to Gate travel has a 15 km bubble of range that you drop into B: A skill can limit this zone C: Add far more content at locations / beacons away from gates. D: remove local - you appear only if you speak So now with skill you donÆt need 5,000 BM for gate travel, but with content and location away from gates there is reason to go stalk / haunt these spots for prey. This would be a semi-valid suggestion if instas only effected piracy and hunting in general. They don't. Alliance fleet movements, guerilla tactics and travelling in general are the main points that make instas an issue, not some outlaw ganking a blind/deaf carebear in low sec.
Del369 Caldari Office linebackers Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.08.04 14:34:00 - [35] like someone already said, 2 words "Warp Bubble" I want to die quietly in my sleep just like my dear old grandma, and not screaming in terror like her passengers!!
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2006.08.04 14:36:00 - [36] for all I care industrials should be able to warp to 0km but for combat ships instas need to be removed! yes R E M O V E D Greetings Grim
Burnhard Brutor	Posted - 2006.08.04 14:38:00 - [37] Originally by: Skawl Oveur has already said he wants to have a solution that keeps the travel time down for those people who are prepared to actively fly rather than using autopilot while increasing player vulnerability at gates. This would fit one requirement but not the other. Actively fly? You mean sit staring at the screen for 40 minutes without doing a damned thing apart from maybe clicking a button once a minute? FFS GAMES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE FUN.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.04 14:42:00 - [38] Edited by: Avon on 04/08/2006 14:42:42 The problem with instas is that there is no drawback to using them, only advantages. If you want faster travel, or more safety, it should involve compromise to the effectiveness of your ship. I suggested a lo-slot module, which would force players to give up damage mods / cargo expanders / warp core stabs / overdrives / nanofibers / tracking enhancers / cpu mods / power mods, in order to get closer to a gate. To land 5km from the jump point (7.5km from the gate), would require only 1 such mod, with the second putting you 1.25 km from the jump point, and 3 landing you in jump range. However, with the pending introduction of the new ship slots, it may be that using that for a navigational device rather than something more beneficial to your ship may be a suitable compromise. Allowing warp to 0km without penalty is not a solution, and nor is a skill based alternative. The key factor is that any alternative to instas must have a penalty, and that penalty must effect all ship classes (so combat efficiency on combat ships, cargo capacity on haulers, etc.) The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Peachy Peachpants	Posted - 2006.08.04 14:43:00 - [39] Quote: Actively fly? You mean sit staring at the screen for 40 minutes without doing a damned thing apart from maybe clicking a button once a minute? FFS GAMES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE FUN. You could always... you know... NOT TRAVEL SO FAR? Which you won't need to do when instas are removed anyway. Since no one gets super-fast super-safe travel you can be sure than no one will have to travel 50 jumps instead of 10 to compete.
Shamis Orzoz SniggWaffe	Posted - 2006.08.04 14:47:00 - [40] Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 04/08/2006 14:47:00 Everybody has insta's. Server doesn't like insta's. Solution: warp at 0km.
Reithan Caldari Dark Planet Ventures	Posted - 2006.08.04 14:48:00 - [41] Simple Solution: CCP GM/DEV Team: "Instas are now considered an exploit and will be dealt with accordingly." Tada. Solved.
Del369 Caldari Office linebackers Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.08.04 14:49:00 - [42] if someone goes to the trouble of learning how to make (and it is trouble) and puts in that time and energy to make them, why should the uber gate ganking kiddies not have to work for their ganks ? they have bubbles, also takes a bit of work, as does making instas, when a bubbles up insta or no insta if your caught in it you aint instaing nowhere, checks and balances, and they are already there, now wcs on battle fleets, thats worthy of a thread maybe. I want to die quietly in my sleep just like my dear old grandma, and not screaming in terror like her passengers!!
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.04 14:50:00 - [43] Originally by: Del369 if someone goes to the trouble of learning how to make (and it is trouble) and puts in that time and energy to make them, why should the uber gate ganking kiddies not have to work for their ganks ? they have bubbles, also takes a bit of work, as does making instas, when a bubbles up insta or no insta if your caught in it you aint instaing nowhere, checks and balances, and they are already there, now wcs on battle fleets, thats worthy of a thread maybe. If you could only use instas that you had made yourself, I don't think they would be a problem. Unfortunately, that is not the case. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
SunBurnt	Posted - 2006.08.04 14:55:00 - [44] Sorry still a noobe to EVE but would not a minimun speed to use a gate work. Come screaming using an instant, drop from warp, now you must make a set speed based on the size and type of class to use the jump gate. Would mean small fast ships might be able to jump quickly but bigger ships would take more time as they are slow to get to max speed. Then It is just a matter of playing with numbers for the cargo haulers (give them a bouns) or even moduals that lower the needed speed.... just my idea
Peachy Peachpants	Posted - 2006.08.04 14:56:00 - [45] Quote: if someone goes to the trouble of learning how to make (and it is trouble) and puts in that time and energy to make them, why should the uber gate ganking kiddies not have to work for their ganks ? they have bubbles, also takes a bit of work, as does making instas, when a bubbles up insta or no insta if your caught in it you aint instaing nowhere, checks and balances, and they are already there, now wcs on battle fleets, thats worthy of a thread maybe. What a failing argument. How hard is it to learn how to click a button when you get 15km behind a gate? Does it require a doctorate or some sort of special institution to be able to do this? Puhlease. If there's anything more pathetic that screaming BOHOO UBER GATE GANKING KIDDIES BLAH BLAH it's saying that instajumps take any effort to use or make. Also, if you had bothered to read the thread instead of posting your most insubstantially omnious and exhuberant mis-opinion, you could see that it has been mentioned several times how; a) It is impossible to compare an insta to a bubble in terms of cost/risk/time. b) BUBBLES DON'T WORK IN EMPIRE. REPEAT: THEY DO NOT WORK. Sigh.
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2006.08.04 15:00:00 - [46] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Del369 if someone goes to the trouble of learning how to make (and it is trouble) and puts in that time and energy to make them, why should the uber gate ganking kiddies not have to work for their ganks ? they have bubbles, also takes a bit of work, as does making instas, when a bubbles up insta or no insta if your caught in it you aint instaing nowhere, checks and balances, and they are already there, now wcs on battle fleets, thats worthy of a thread maybe. If you could only use instas that you had made yourself, I don't think they would be a problem. Unfortunately, that is not the case. I can't agree on that. because it simply forces you to make them, like with a skill which you are simply forced to train to lv 5. and moreover the system of making them is utterly retarded ... it really is who in their right mind would fly 15km past an object just to make a bm of that point in space where your ship currently is in order to be able to warp to it at 15km which then puts you right in the middile of the stargate hull which then bounces you up and down and left and right it feels soooooooooo wrong Greetings Grim
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.04 15:02:00 - [47] Whilst people are making an insta they are vunerable. Using instas that someone else has made does not have that drawback. At least if they had to make them themselves they would have to face that initial risk .. and they would only own instas for places they had actually been. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Michayel Lyon Gallente Mercantile Exchange	Posted - 2006.08.04 15:07:00 - [48] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 04/08/2006 14:47:00 Everybody has insta's. Server doesn't like insta's. Solution: warp at 0km. The only one who got it right in this thread. Some refinements could be: Warp at 0km doesn't work with autopilot. Warp at 0km doesn't work in 0.5+ sec space. (... unless currently in war?) Warp at 0km requires navigational computations that takes time proportional to ship mass. (Choose to be safe(r) on warp out or warp in.) I also kinda liked Avon's idea, as long as the module doesn't require skills. More skills will never be a viable solution to the insta-bookmark "problem".
Kaomi Zorbaz	Posted - 2006.08.04 15:08:00 - [49] Quote: I suggested a lo-slot module, which would force players to give up damage mods / cargo expanders / warp core stabs / overdrives / nanofibers / tracking enhancers / cpu mods / power mods, in order to get closer to a gate. To land 5km from the jump point (7.5km from the gate), would require only 1 such mod, with the second putting you 1.25 km from the jump point, and 3 landing you in jump range. Having just started playing this game last week. I fly in empire all the time and only hit .4 once which had me warping immediately as pirates were on me. Anyways funny that you mention a module. I fit my merlin with an afterburner when I travel outside the system on missions. Cuts my time out of warp in half when going to the gate. I can see the problem with insta's and how it wasnt designed in. I think your idea of a module could work. Also a skill book could work as well.
Malena Panic Gallente Acme Technologies Incorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.08.04 15:19:00 - [50] Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 04/08/2006 14:42:42The problem with instas is that there is no drawback to using them, only advantages. The problem with the market is that there is no drawback to using it, only advantages. Not everything has to be risk/reward. The killboards are FULL of ships that die every day; Eve is non-stop carnage 23/7. I don't see any a priori need to further increase the vulnerability of ships who don't want to engage. Quote: If you want faster travel, or more safety, it should involve compromise to the effectiveness of your ship. I don't think anyone is arguing for 'more safety' here. Travel with instas is the standard for safety. And it's far from perfectly safe. Quote: Allowing warp to 0km without penalty is not a solution It maintains the status quo while removing a persistent database problem. Sounds win/win to me. Quote: The key factor is that any alternative to instas must have a penalty That is regressive and punitive. Why not a system that maintains the existing level of danger while improving the game's responsiveness?
Malena Panic Gallente Acme Technologies Incorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.08.04 15:20:00 - [51] Originally by: Peachy Peachpants Instas are on their way out, along with local chat. PvP in EVE has stagnated to the point of pure boredom because of instas and local. You've only been playing Eve for a short few months and you're already bored? Poor guy.
Dupac Corsets and Carebears Whips and Chains	Posted - 2006.08.04 15:26:00 - [52] Originally by: Del369 Edited by: Del369 on 04/08/2006 14:42:35 like someone already said, 2 words, "Warp Bubble" there is no "problem" with instas Like I am sure someone else has said "Empire" not everyone lives or wants to live in 0.0 I don't like the skill idea as it is a pointless time sink for older players and puts new players at a disadvantage. I have a straightforward suggestion - 1. Remove Instas 2. Allow warp at 0km 3. Allow bubbles / interdiction spheres in low sec empire within X km of the gates Instas are gone, players in high sec can warp directly all day. Pirates (including me, just reached -10 today \o/) get a chance as long as they organise and set up bubbles at the gates. I'm not suggesting removing sentry guns ofc -
Izo Azlion Veto.	Posted - 2006.08.04 15:28:00 - [53] Heres one off the top of my head. Why doesnt CCP ust make everyone insta without bookmarks until we can figure out something fair for everyone? Why do that? So thousands of bookmarks can be deleted and we can lessen the strain on the server, and have cleaner servers to run on. We can adjust to a proper solution later on. Izo Azlion. --- Veto.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.04 15:30:00 - [54] Warp to 0km is definately not a solution. Why pick a faster, lower capacity hauler over a slower, larger capacity one? Ship speeds are meant to be a major balancing factor in Eve. Avoid travel and you avoid balance. If you avoid the travel, something needs to be in place to restore that balance. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.04 15:33:00 - [55] Originally by: Izo Azlion Heres one off the top of my head. Why doesnt CCP ust make everyone insta without bookmarks until we can figure out something fair for everyone? Why do that? So thousands of bookmarks can be deleted and we can lessen the strain on the server, and have cleaner servers to run on. We can adjust to a proper solution later on. Because the uproar would be even worse then than it would be if the change was brought about to fix a broken mechanic. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Peachy Peachpants	Posted - 2006.08.04 15:35:00 - [56] Originally by: Malena Panic Originally by: Peachy Peachpants Instas are on their way out, along with local chat. PvP in EVE has stagnated to the point of pure boredom because of instas and local. You've only been playing Eve for a short few months and you're already bored? Poor guy. Funny how you couldn't come up with a single-counter point to any of my arguments.
Macon Squaredealer Squaredeal Enterprises	Posted - 2006.08.04 15:37:00 - [57] Sigh, another insta thread. Okay look, I know nobody could care less about my thoughts on this and it will be buried 27 pages back in a few minutes, but here it goes anyway: First off, it doesnÆt matter what anybody here thinks, itÆs what Oveur thinks that counts. Please stop with the ôtravel is to fast with instaÆsö nonsense. Oveur has stated he wants 2 things out of any solution for the great insta menace û same or better travel time, and more vulnerability at gates. Okay fine, how? Same or better travel time Remove the need for instas with a warp to 0 km option. Those people flying afk continue to land 15 km from the gate. More vulnerability at gates * Nerf low sec sentry guns to make them do about half of the damage they currently put out. * ALL ships within 20km of a gate/station have insta-lock - as in click target=locked. * No longer allow disrupted/scrambled ships to jump through a gate. Have a nice day ___________________________________________ Watch for the Squaredeal Enterprises IPO in the coming months.
Azrael Bierce Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.04 15:43:00 - [58] Originally by: Peachy Peachpants Which you won't need to do when instas are removed anyway. Since no one gets super-fast super-safe travel you can be sure than no one will have to travel 50 jumps instead of 10 to compete. I'll throw your words back at you, "This is a failing argument". You'll probably have to go further. You'll have far, far fewer targets entering lowsec without the instas. All told, I don't care if they get rid of instas, as long as they get rid of all bookmarks at the same time. If I can't instawarp through gates, there's no good reason why the "All I want is fair PVP" snipers can have gates bookmarked with sniping positions. You want to snipe you warp to the gate and slowboat to your sniping locations.
Macon Squaredealer Squaredeal Enterprises	Posted - 2006.08.04 15:44:00 - [59] Originally by: Peachy Peachpants Lol. Worst suggestions ever, for obvious reasons. Instalock within 20km of a gate? What? Weaker sentry guns? What does that solve? No jumping while scrambled? Hello? Anyone home? Hello alt! What it solves is Oveur's desire to provide more vulnerability at gates - PER OVEUR's STATED DESIRE. Hello? Anybody home? Comprende? ___________________________________________ Watch for the Squaredeal Enterprises IPO in the coming months.
Peachy Peachpants	Posted - 2006.08.04 15:52:00 - [60] Originally by: Macon Squaredealer Originally by: Peachy Peachpants Lol. Worst suggestions ever, for obvious reasons. Instalock within 20km of a gate? What? Weaker sentry guns? What does that solve? No jumping while scrambled? Hello? Anyone home? Hello alt! What it solves is Oveur's desire to provide more vulnerability at gates - PER OVEUR's STATED DESIRE. Hello? Anybody home? Comprende? It doesn't solve anything, especially vulnerability at gates. It's simply silly.

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