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Tobias Sjodin
Caldari
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2006.08.06 17:59:00 -
[1]
As it is not yet apparent to me, how come you cannot warp to any ship that are within your viewing-distance?
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.06 18:02:00 -
[2]
I would actually love this. Would make sniping very dangerous, and give close combat ships a role in fleets. But there must be some obvious downside to it that im missing...
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Kate Darieux
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.06 18:03:00 -
[3]
Erm... that would break the definition of staying at long range, everyone would just run around with high-damage short range weapon systems.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.06 18:04:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 06/08/2006 18:04:42
 Originally by: Kate Darieux
Erm... that would break the definition of staying at long range, everyone would just run around with high-damage short range weapon systems.
As compared to now where everyone has long range? Its the same thing really... besides, looking at other mmorpg's, the long range fighters are always protected by the others while doing their magic.
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Kate Darieux
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.06 18:11:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 06/08/2006 18:04:42
Originally by: Kate Darieux
Erm... that would break the definition of staying at long range, everyone would just run around with high-damage short range weapon systems.
As compared to now where everyone has long range? Its the same thing really... besides, looking at other mmorpg's, the long range fighters are always protected by the others while doing their magic.
Ok, good point there. But tell me, with this change what will keep fleets from going 100% short range? There won't even be a case of short range ships protecting long range ships as you stated, because you'll be able to jump right on top of them.
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.06 18:14:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 06/08/2006 18:14:47
Originally by: Kate Darieux
Ok, good point there. But tell me, with this change what will keep fleets from going 100% short range? There won't even be a case of short range ships protecting long range ships as you stated, because you'll be able to jump right on top of them.
It would be kind of complicated to implement in Eve, yeah. If taking a fantasy mmorpg as example, the warriors would fight up close and keep the enemy from reaching the longbowmen standing further back. It would require some changes to how eve game mechanics work...:/ I just wish it could be implemented in some way. It would make the game more than a snipefest for fleets.
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Baldour Ngarr
Artemis Rising
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Posted - 2006.08.06 18:16:00 -
[7]
From a realism point of view .... kinda hard to see why. Either you can pick up a ship's engine to warp to it, or you can't.
From a gameplay point of view, it's pretty obvious. If you can warp to your chosen distance, it's a massive disadvantage to be in anything other than a short-range setup.As things stand now, long-range is only a clear advantage in certain places - far from ideal still, but unlimited warp-to would make it worse.
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"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Kate Darieux
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.06 18:23:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
From a realism point of view .... kinda hard to see why. Either you can pick up a ship's engine to warp to it, or you can't.
Why do you assume that the warp drive locks on a ship's engines in order to warp to it? It could lock to a beacon inside the ship, that is only detectable by your gang by being broadcasted on a secret frequency? Or something like that! 
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Erichk Knaar
Caldari
Tactical Enterprise Group LTD
The Imperial Order
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Posted - 2006.08.06 18:28:00 -
[9]
You need a friend in a covops to enable this feature 
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Kate Darieux
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.06 18:30:00 -
[10]
^^ And quite a lot of time to position the cov ops, too!
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Azerrad
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Posted - 2006.08.06 18:36:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kate Darieux
Erm... that would break the definition of staying at long range, everyone would just run around with high-damage short range weapon systems.
Well, you can't warp to anything thats less than 150km away, so you could still snipe, but you would have to do so at less than 150km to prevent short range enemies from warping in on top of you.
It actually sounds like an interesting idea to implement the range nerf.
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Shahadet
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2006.08.06 18:36:00 -
[12]
There a few things why its this way as I see it.
1) there is already a limit of warping to 15k of something so even if there was an option for it you would still be 15k away. Useful but not that much.
2) Fiction wise Warping is complex and not something you just target and go. You warp to location is normaly a stationary (or really slow moving) target. Not a something going 300+ m/sec
3) Right Click Warp to Pwnage would change fleet battles a lot. It would be lots of micro warping and swarm tatics.
4) What would keep someone from just Right Click warping away? Chasing would degrade into Micro Warps all over the system with small moments of combat as they come out and go back into warp.
5) There are things in game already to give you a boost to close the gap on a target already with out having to warp. Adding right click warp to pwnage would make most of these pointless.
just my random thoughts on it right now.
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Hllaxiu
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.08.06 19:06:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Azerrad
Originally by: Kate Darieux
Erm... that would break the definition of staying at long range, everyone would just run around with high-damage short range weapon systems.
Well, you can't warp to anything thats less than 150km away, so you could still snipe, but you would have to do so at less than 150km to prevent short range enemies from warping in on top of you.
It actually sounds like an interesting idea to implement the range nerf.
Hold your interdictor cloaked on the other side of the grid...
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Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Tao Han
Caldari
Crucial Electronics
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Posted - 2006.08.06 19:24:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Tao Han on 06/08/2006 19:28:17
Originally by: Jim McGregor
It would be kind of complicated to implement in Eve, yeah. If taking a fantasy mmorpg as example, the warriors would fight up close and keep the enemy from reaching the longbowmen standing further back.
Like your friendly close combat wing keeping the enemies close combat wing from engaging your snipers with warp scramblers and enabling your longrange ships to work their magic.
And I agree that it should be possible.
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Deadeye Dave
Amarr
Lynx Frontier Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.06 20:37:00 -
[15]
By viewing-distance do you mean 'look at' distance? 'Look at' is 100km max if I remember correctly and you have to be 150km away from an object to warp to it.
I also think it would be game-breaking because everyone would fit short range setups for less than 15km though it might be fun I can think of it as mainly an annoyance.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.06 22:14:00 -
[16]
a warp to option for all ships would make thje game so much more interesting!
that combined with a 50% range reduction of all weapons.
fleetfights would happen at 100km,
reachable ranges for frigs etc.
also easy to setup on for closerange ships.
it would change the atm so obvious seperated groups thata re shooting each other from 180km, to a closer fighting from 140 to 0km.
it would also enable different squads in fleets, long and shiortrange ones,
in short,
it would make evebattles alot more interesting.
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Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
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Tehyarec
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Posted - 2006.08.06 22:33:00 -
[17]
So you cannot warp to a non-gang ship that's at, for example, 200km? Interesting. I actually thought you could, but had never tried. Tried to jump to a non-disabled drone at 150+km once, but couldn't, I thought it was just because it was such a small target. Damn. Well, this certainly explains a thing or two about fleet sniping battles 
This being the case, I can only say: they really should make it possible 
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Tamu Vos
Gallente
Guardians of Hell's Gate
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2006.08.06 23:02:00 -
[18]
If CCP did implement this firstly everyone would fit short range setups all the time, effectivley removing an entire chunk of the game, and secondly there would be no end of whining about it.
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Caethes Adain
Minmatar
The Descendents
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Posted - 2006.08.06 23:52:00 -
[19]
This used to be in the game but they took it out quite a while ago, was pretty good fun chasing after your target as they tried to warp away to get you at their optimal.
Aye, gone are the days of torpedo frigs, multi ab's/mwd's, mines, splash damage......
People dissapoint me. End my dissapointment. |
Eriv Kendri
Caldari
Quantum Industries
Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2006.08.06 23:54:00 -
[20]
I could see it if it was made possible by a high-slot module that acted like a cloak in the respect of requiring a sensor recalibration time after coming out of warp.
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shivan
Rampage Eternal
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Posted - 2006.08.07 00:02:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Eriv Kendri
I could see it if it was made possible by a high-slot module that acted like a cloak in the respect of requiring a sensor recalibration time after coming out of warp.
thats not a bad idea, make a ship able to do that. Might add something else to covert ops, or a new ship class entirly.
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Infinity Ziona
ISK LLC
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Posted - 2006.08.07 00:21:00 -
[22]
Agreed. Warp to ship is a good idea.
'The alliance should not be a solo contentmobile' - Albert Einstein |
Andargor theWise
Disbelievers of Fate
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Posted - 2006.08.07 00:27:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Andargor theWise on 07/08/2006 00:28:02
Excellent idea!
Interdictors would have their tactical advantage: preventing warp to their long range ships by dropping bubbles in between. The enemy would still need long range ships to retaliate, or destroy the interdictors.
And what's wrong with highly dynamic battlefields? "Short range pwnage" is, what, < 20km? Warp to 15km, and targets are moving.
Finally something more for FCs to do than call primary.
Perfect! I'm interested.
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TricksR4Cats
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Posted - 2006.08.07 00:32:00 -
[24]
WTF you cant warp to another fleet's position??
WAit for one of them to blow up, then warp to their can if its over 100km away.
I did it today, i finished a lvl 3 mission, and on the way to the jump gate i saw someone on another mission. They were 110km away (you know how missions are, near gates and belts etc). I waited for him to blow up one rat, it made a can, i warped to it and helped him blow up the rest of the rats.
It should be the same in fleet battles surely: get to 100km away, then warp to one of their cans and let rip?
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DukDodgerz
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Posted - 2006.08.07 03:39:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 06/08/2006 18:14:47
Originally by: Kate Darieux
Ok, good point there. But tell me, with this change what will keep fleets from going 100% short range? There won't even be a case of short range ships protecting long range ships as you stated, because you'll be able to jump right on top of them.
It would be kind of complicated to implement in Eve, yeah. If taking a fantasy mmorpg as example, the warriors would fight up close and keep the enemy from reaching the longbowmen standing further back. It would require some changes to how eve game mechanics work...:/ I just wish it could be implemented in some way. It would make the game more than a snipefest for fleets.
we can already warp to objects at about 150ishkm...so if they are inside that range they could snipe without worry of a close range assault...seems like it would just have to be turned on and nothing more (making ships "warp to" objects) the rest is balanced.
FRODO HAS FAILED;
BUSH HAS THE RING!!!
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WeetBix
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Miners With Attitude
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Posted - 2006.08.07 04:49:00 -
[26]
What if there was an extra high slot item called a 'Microjump drive'. It is a device that fits to a ship which works off the same technology as the gates that go to deadspace complexes. It shoots a beam at a friendly ship and then flings them towards a target. As a tradeoff it has a very long recharge time, allowing them to do it perhaps once every minute or so. This would go well on command ships whose whole purpose it to buff ships around them. Imagine being in battle only to have a wave of ships jump into your front lines every minute or so.
As a side effect, perhaps the higher the mass of the ship you want to throw, the more capacitor you use to throw it. This means you can either throw a few small ships or one big one.
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If I see one more 'FIRST!' post, I'm gonna snap. |
Itaro Flagg
Sicarri Covenant
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Posted - 2006.08.07 06:51:00 -
[27]
I always liked the idea of having a high-slot module, a 'beacon launcher', that would launch a beacon in the direction of your target, that anyone could then warp directly to.
It could be restricted to certain ships (99% cpu reduction), perhaps covert ops/recon ships, or maybe logistics ships. You could give it a timer before it becomes active, and a very low sig radius (hard to lock). This would mean that the other fleet would have a method to counter this, by quickly locking and destroying the beacon before it goes online. Add a few skills to reduce the activation time, etc, and voila, a new dimension added into fleet combat ;)
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.07 07:57:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Tamu Vos
If CCP did implement this firstly everyone would fit short range setups all the time, effectivley removing an entire chunk of the game, and secondly there would be no end of whining about it.
I don't agree.
You can already use a covert to set-up on people, and yet fleets still fit for long range.
Why?
Because close range combat is far more risky than long range.
Not only do you have to deal with people shooting you, you then have to factor in drones, nos, ecm, scramblers, webs, and all sorts of other nastiness.
Also, it keeps combat within 150km, which is a good thing.
If your target wanders outside that range it risks you dictating the range, and range selection is one of the biggest advantages in combat.
Remember, also, that you don't have to warp to your target at 15km, you could warp to them at 50, or even 100.
As a side benefit, as already mentioned, it would make sniping at gates far more risky.
Either you have to attack within sentry range, or take the chance on people warping to your sniping position (which would be could be made even more fun if they warped to the opposite side of the gate at 100km from a celestial object, effectively being safe from the sniper until they choose to engage).
I'm not sure there would be the drawbacks, set-ups, or whining that you imagine.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Logan Xerxes
Shinra
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.08.07 08:16:00 -
[29]
My name is Logan Xerxes, and I approve this message
"Draw them in with the prospect of gain, take them by confusion."
-Sun Tzu |
Matori Kar
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Posted - 2006.08.07 08:33:00 -
[30]
Very good idea!! 
Maybe change the minimun warp range to 200km, but even that is not really needed.
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