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Estan Drake
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Posted - 2006.08.06 23:33:00 -
[1]
Quoted from the Dev blog
"Well there is the Tier 2 battlecruisers. I don't really have any solid info on those yet. So far they're favoring damage over tankability which makes them extremely vulnerable to bigger ships due to their big signature radius and sluggish feel, but would make them quite devastating versus smaller ships, like cruisers."
You will have to excuse my sarcasm here, but it sounds like the tier 2's will be *radically* different. The current Battlecruisers are so darned fast and agile with such a tiny sig radius. And we all know they are invulnerable to larger ships because of this.
/end sarcasm
I know it is still early, and he doesn't have details, but does anyone else feel as if what was described does not add much at all in the way of variety to the next tier of BCs?
In this case I welcome more specialized ships that don't require months to train for. We have this variety in the tech 1 frigate and cruiser classes, so why not make the tier 2 BCs more....well... different from the tier 1.
What do you all think?
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Estan Drake
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Posted - 2006.08.06 23:33:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Estan Drake on 06/08/2006 23:33:57
Now, I fly minmatar ships, so I'm a bit partial & can only speak for myself here, but I was thinking the tier 2 BCs would be alot faster and more agile. Since minmatar get gimped in many other departments I would love to see a Battlecruiser or even a battleship capitalize on the this supposed speed advantage with a specialized ship other than the vagabond.
What Tuxford described in his blog doesn't seem to add anything new to the ship class. The BCs we currently have are pretty much only shine when taking on frigs and cruisers as it is. They tend to get wholloped fairly easily due to their relatively low HP compared to their huge signature radius. Not to mention... they are pitifully slow.... more than a few whine threads about it if you care to look.
So I'm only looking at the Minmatar Battlecruiser we have had a chance to see.
Doesn't its design just scream for lots o'speed and lots o'guns? I was hoping its form followed its function and it would be an all out autocannon boat more in line with the Stabber than the Rupture (which the current cyclone feels close to already when fitted with arty)
Maybe give it the same mass/agility bonus with Afterburners and MWD that they are thinking about with the tier 3 gallente ship to reflect this. Along with a damage bonus instead of the RoF bonus the cyclone gets. Oh, and of course, give it all turret slots instead of a missile/turret mix.
The RoF bonus to me, seems to favor the use of the slower firing artillery to get the most out of the bonus. while a damage bonus would help cut back on the massive ammo required with autocannons. To prevent it from becoming yet another Artillery gank boat the powergrid could be limited, this alone would limit the usefullness of an alpha-strike artillery (we have enough of those already) or fullblown tank setup in favor of Autocannons without any other tweaking needed.
Now according to the dev blog damage is emphasized over defense so this sounds like the perfect solution to me. Fast short range ship & no tanking bonuses.
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FireAnt
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Posted - 2006.08.06 23:48:00 -
[3]
I dont see the point make the tier t2 ones like the tier 1. I would love to see faster, more agile, but maybe only 3 to 4 high slots but them use large guns. Give them bonuses to have better tracking, so they can hit smaller targets. I just dont want to see the same ship over and over again, like a prophecy with one more gun or something like that. Boring.
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korrey
Corinth Associates
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Posted - 2006.08.07 00:04:00 -
[4]
I seriously want a ship than can dish out more burst dps than an 8 HS' II Pre-RMR Geddon with a tank about at good as mallers... ( <-- that was a sarcastic joke to all the non-Amarr users who still think its a great ship.)
If you cant beat something, arrange to have it beaten.
-Corinth Associates |
Jerick Ludhowe
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
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Posted - 2006.08.07 00:12:00 -
[5]
I'm very partial to a Minmatar BC that has a Speed and missle ROF bonuss. Give it 6 launchers and enough lows for a moderatly reasonable armor tank and I think you would have one hell of a ship once the new assault missles go live.
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Estan Drake
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Posted - 2006.08.07 00:33:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe
I'm very partial to a Minmatar BC that has a Speed and missle ROF bonuss. Give it 6 launchers and enough lows for a moderatly reasonable armor tank and I think you would have one hell of a ship once the new assault missles go live.
not bad, but they'd give it to the cladri before they gave it to our ships.
What we would end up with is some sort of bastard 4/4 turret/missile split which makes you have to fit 2 or 3 different types of damage mods: Balistic control units, gyrostab, *and* tracking computer. And the requirement to split you SP between two types of weapon classes, not looking forward to another typhoon at all.
Either all missiles or all turrets with an option to mix and match would be best I think.
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Reatu Krentor
Minmatar
Void Spiders
Fate Weavers
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Posted - 2006.08.07 00:47:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Reatu Krentor on 07/08/2006 00:50:24
Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe
I'm very partial to a Minmatar BC that has a Speed and missle ROF bonuss. Give it 6 launchers and enough lows for a moderatly reasonable armor tank and I think you would have one hell of a ship once the new assault missles go live.
pls, no.
Minmatar tier 2 battlecruiser, make it a continuation of Stabber. Fast and many guns. Like a glass cannon of sorts, can dish out but not take too much damage. Rof and damage bonus pls
<edit: some more about the others>
As for the others it's pretty straightforward, Gallente a drone boat, Amarr a continuation of the Omen(Prophecy is Maller's bigger brother), Caldari a missile boat(with Ferox getting some adjustments like losing a couple launcher slots and gaining a turret with grid to match)
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"I wish CONCORD would scream "No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition" when they turn up to blob you.  " -_ Twilight Moon |
Jerick Ludhowe
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
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Posted - 2006.08.07 00:54:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Reatu Krentor
pls, no.
Minmatar tier 2 battlecruiser, make it a continuation of Stabber. Fast and many guns. Like a glass cannon of sorts, can dish out but not take too much damage.
I figured that missles complement a fast ship more than turrets as you would not have to worry about tracking. None the less I see your reasoning and chances are it will probably be an AC boat.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2006.08.07 01:07:00 -
[9]
All I want is for my Ferox to remain unchanged.
I am more afraid of the ending up with a worse missile ship than I am looking foward to a new one.
Wherever you went - here you are.
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Estan Drake
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Posted - 2006.08.07 01:07:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Jerick Ludhowe
I figured that missles complement a fast ship more than turrets as you would not have to worry about tracking. None the less I see your reasoning and chances are it will probably be an AC boat.
He's right, if you have ever tried an artillery Inty you know the pain. Autocannons don't have this problem nearly as bad though. Missiles have the advantage of ebing able to hit from long distance *and* at very fast MWD speeds. For whatever reason when you orbit a stationary target with MWD, with your guns facing the target the entire time, tracking makes you miss everytime.
Only problem with a missile boat is you lose your Minmatar identity. Not to mention all the people who fly caldari being able to switch over without training any projectile skills.
While a mix of projectiles and missiles solves this problem it just causes problems with a horrible damage output and difficult fitting with both CPU and PG intensive weapons on at the same time
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Nikolai Nuvolari
Caldari
Gilead's Bullet
Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.08.07 01:09:00 -
[11]
Amarr: 8/3/6 with an 8/0 turret/launcher split
5% medium energy turret RoF
10% reduction in medium energy turret cap use
This is the ship the Omen always should have been.
Caldari: 7/6/4 with a 2/7 turret/launcher split
5% missile RoF (NOT KINETIC DAMAGE GODDAMNIT!)
10% missile velocity
Nice missile ganker, but it really needs those assault missiles to make it work.
Gallente: 6/5/6 with a 6/0 turret/launcher split
5% drone damage
5% sensor dampener effectiveness
A 100m^3 drone bay should allow the option of heavy drones, and the sensor dampeners allow the ship to get in range.
Minmatar: 8/6/4 with an 8/4 turret/launcher split
5% medium projectile turret RoF
5% maximum velocity
With a base velocity of 200 m/s and a high shield recharge rate, this ship should make the perfect high-speed, passive tanking autocannon boat.
Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw
Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
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Nikolai Nuvolari
Caldari
Gilead's Bullet
Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.08.07 01:13:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ghoest
All I want is for my Ferox to remain unchanged.
I am more afraid of the ending up with a worse missile ship than I am looking foward to a new one.
ARRRRRRGH!!! NOOOOO!!! *beats Ghoest over the head with a baseball bat*
The Ferox IS NOT A MISSILE SHIP! Why the hell do you need TWO missile ships anyway? The Ferox needs to be changed from 5/5 to 6/3 with a powergrid boost.
Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw
Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
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McTaggart
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.08.07 01:14:00 -
[13]
For Gallente: Drone boat.
yay!
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LaCoHa
Acerbus Vindictum
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Posted - 2006.08.07 01:26:00 -
[14]
yes Drone ship for Gall please:
7.5% rpr bonus per level
+10m3 drone bay per Lvl (start with 75m3) so 5 heavies at BC V
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Aversin
Gallente
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.07 01:35:00 -
[15]
they shouldn't be bigger and slower, that'd make them BIGGER and SLOWER than battleships :)
Originally by: Razner Cerizo
They will never quit. The beatings will continue until morale improves.
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Reatu Krentor
Minmatar
Void Spiders
Fate Weavers
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Posted - 2006.08.07 01:35:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
Amarr: 8/3/6 with an 8/0 turret/launcher split
5% medium energy turret RoF
10% reduction in medium energy turret cap use
This is the ship the Omen always should have been.
Yah, pure gank  (though I don't/can't fly amarr)
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
Caldari: 7/6/4 with a 2/7 turret/launcher split
5% missile RoF (NOT KINETIC DAMAGE GODDAMNIT!)
10% missile velocity
Nice missile ganker, but it really needs those assault missiles to make it work.
Rather see 6 launchers then if it would receive a RoF bonus, with 7 launchers it's DoT would be a bit too high imo. kinetic missile damage bonus allways was a bit weird, indeed.
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
Gallente: 6/5/6 with a 6/0 turret/launcher split
5% drone damage
5% sensor dampener effectiveness
A 100m^3 drone bay should allow the option of heavy drones, and the sensor dampeners allow the ship to get in range.
Decent suggestion, nothing to add.
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
Minmatar: 8/6/4 with an 8/4 turret/launcher split
5% medium projectile turret RoF
5% maximum velocity
With a base velocity of 200 m/s and a high shield recharge rate, this ship should make the perfect high-speed, passive tanking autocannon boat.
Just a RoF bonus?  , I'd make it an armor tanked ship rather, y'know minmatar being all over the place with their tanking  (one BC a shield tank, one armor)
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"I wish CONCORD would scream "No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition" when they turn up to blob you. " -_ Twilight Moon |
LaCoHa
Acerbus Vindictum
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Posted - 2006.08.07 01:45:00 -
[17]
i also would like to say that i think a Sensor Dampner bonus is a total waste. A ship this big and slow is NOT going to dictate range, no matter what the situation. -okay okay maybe with a Rapier in gang - (iirc thats the long range webbing ship)
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Reatu Krentor
Minmatar
Void Spiders
Fate Weavers
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Posted - 2006.08.07 01:49:00 -
[18]
Originally by: LaCoHa
i also would like to say that i think a Sensor Dampner bonus is a total waste. A ship this big and slow is NOT going to dictate range, no matter what the situation. -okay okay maybe with a Rapier in gang - (iirc thats the long range webbing ship)
and huginn(Rapier is the covert recon).
gallente tier 2 wouldn't need to keep range that much... it is possible to dampen a bs down to 15k locking range and when it is like that it would take a *long* time before it would lock anything.
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"I wish CONCORD would scream "No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition" when they turn up to blob you. " -_ Twilight Moon |
LaCoHa
Acerbus Vindictum
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Posted - 2006.08.07 01:54:00 -
[19]
yeah that may be true - but in my experience PVP starts at about 10k, and ends with my ship touching whoever im attacking. Therefore, I am pro anything that helps me out close in, and anti anything that requires me to watch my orbit range.
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Reatu Krentor
Minmatar
Void Spiders
Fate Weavers
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Posted - 2006.08.07 02:12:00 -
[20]
Originally by: LaCoHa
yeah that may be true - but in my experience PVP starts at about 10k, and ends with my ship touching whoever im attacking. Therefore, I am pro anything that helps me out close in, and anti anything that requires me to watch my orbit range.
Even if you would go inside the zone where the target can target you, the time it takes him to lock you gives you a big advantage as he won't be doing anything to you while you are doing all kinds of stuff, could also add 1 ecm as well (with the dampners active it's like a free jam on top of every succesfull one).
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"I wish CONCORD would scream "No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition" when they turn up to blob you. " -_ Twilight Moon |
Benco97
Gallente
On Ravens Wings
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Posted - 2006.08.07 02:17:00 -
[21]
Personally I want them to be super slow, super bulky and super ugly.
They should suck tremendously at everything.
Have relatively low survivability.
Bonuses to SMALL guns for damage and range.
Hooray, I invented the destroyer!
proof of why I am not allowed to make the ships in eve ;.;
Snug Radio - Fart like a Pirate |
Estan Drake
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Posted - 2006.08.07 02:33:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Aversin
they shouldn't be bigger and slower, that'd make them BIGGER and SLOWER than battleships :)
no kidding.
I hope CCP makes these ships something interesting. I wouldn't mind seeing some bonuses on these ships that havn't been in the game before. Out of the box thinking would be a +
Like I dunno, Lets give them something truely crazy like a 5% Damage mod boost per level (of a drone mod boost for gallente.) That'd be in line with the "hard hitting, weak defense" philosophy and would allow them to place heavy restrictions on CPU and PG while still allowing lower tier guns to do heavy damage. you keep em fast, but also keep their defenses weak because now they have less PG and CPU need and also stay competitive.
Like normal Gyrostab: 10% (1.1 X) to damage modifier and 10.5% to Rate of Fire
With BC level 5: 12.5% (1.125 X) to damage modifier and 13.125% Rate of fire.
Stacking penalties like normal
This way you get lower tier guns doing comparable damge to the larger tiers. Just a thought, I know its kinda out there.
It needs to stay in balance with other ship classes and such, I know. But why not take this oppourtunity to invent something new like that?
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Brechan Skene
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Posted - 2006.08.07 02:46:00 -
[23]
I would like the following
8/5/5 setup (4 guns/4 missile hi slot setup)
with 5% rof projectiles and 5% rof missile rof
with a drone capacity for 10 light drones. cannot remember the exact amount though
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Nikolai Nuvolari
Caldari
Gilead's Bullet
Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.08.07 02:53:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Reatu Krentor
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
Caldari: 7/6/4 with a 2/7 turret/launcher split
5% missile RoF (NOT KINETIC DAMAGE GODDAMNIT!)
10% missile velocity
Nice missile ganker, but it really needs those assault missiles to make it work.
Rather see 6 launchers then if it would receive a RoF bonus, with 7 launchers it's DoT would be a bit too high imo.
Seeing as both the Amarr and Minmatar ships have 8 weapons and an RoF bonus (especially considering that lasers have much higher DPS than missiles), I don't think seven for this one is even close to overpowered.
Originally by: Reatu Krentor
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
Minmatar: 8/6/4 with an 8/4 turret/launcher split
5% medium projectile turret RoF
5% maximum velocity
With a base velocity of 200 m/s and a high shield recharge rate, this ship should make the perfect high-speed, passive tanking autocannon boat.
Just a RoF bonus? , I'd make it an armor tanked ship rather, y'know minmatar being all over the place with their tanking (one BC a shield tank, one armor)
Yes JUST an RoF bonus, this ship is specifically designed for autocannons, not artillery. As far as tanking, I think the Minmatar need more shield tanks, because right now they only have a few. I figure with an unusually low shield recharge time, a lot of shields, and a good number of medslots, it would make an ideal passive tanker, compared to the Cyclone, which is definitely an active shield tank. The other advantage is that with autocannons and a passive shield tank, the ship is completely immune to nos, which is one of the great dangers of close-range combat.
Originally by: LaCoHa
i also would like to say that i think a Sensor Dampner bonus is a total waste. A ship this big and slow is NOT going to dictate range, no matter what the situation. -okay okay maybe with a Rapier in gang - (iirc thats the long range webbing ship)
I was trying to think up a way to make it an effective drone ship without being completely overpowered.
How about this?
6/4/6 with a 6/0 turret/launcher split
10% drone damage
7.5% drone tracking
This should make it highly effective with large drones.
Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw
Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
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Kombikiller
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Posted - 2006.08.07 03:05:00 -
[25]
I think the Battlecruiser teir 2, just needs to be simila but more sophisticated with a bigger punch and better defence,.. keeping in mind where it sits in the whole heirachy of Eve ships.
If they want to go left field and make it really different, then why not introduce a whole new ship class instead.
I like Nikolai's concept on the T2's.
A Battleship should not need to run from up to 3 T2 Battlecruisers... The BS must always be the all round king by a long way imo.
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Nikolai Nuvolari
Caldari
Gilead's Bullet
Kimotoro Directive
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Posted - 2006.08.07 03:10:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Kombikiller
I think the Battlecruiser teir 2, just needs to be simila but more sophisticated with a bigger punch and better defence
Bigger punch, yes, better defense, no. The Tier 1 battlecruisers are the tanks, Tier 2 battlecruisers are the ganks.
Originally by: Kombikiller
I like Nikolai's concept on the T2's.
\o/
Keep in mind that the ships I designed aren't as tough as resiliant as the Tier 1 battlecruisers, though.
Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw
Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
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Khadur
Minmatar
Spontaneous Defenestration
Coalition of Carebear Killers
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Posted - 2006.08.07 03:19:00 -
[27]
fast mofo autocannon boat......
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Khadur
Minmatar
Spontaneous Defenestration
Coalition of Carebear Killers
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Posted - 2006.08.07 03:20:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Khadur on 07/08/2006 03:20:21
Edited by: Khadur on 07/08/2006 03:20:14
ffs double post...
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welsh wizard
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Posted - 2006.08.07 03:21:00 -
[29]
Edited by: welsh wizard on 07/08/2006 03:22:56
I like the idea of a ship that trades survivability for high damage output.
Just like a battlecruiser should be.
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Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.07 03:28:00 -
[30]
I've read that the teir 2 Battlecruisers will have a focus on "gank" rather than "tank" as the teir 1 Battlecruisers do.
I'm happy with that Options ftw.
I expect them pop in PvP frequently, but to be nice ships while they live, and to be cheap enough that many folks can afford to lose them.
*snip*
This type of comment has no place in a signature, please remain courteous - Pirlouit
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