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The crux of Eve - to POSspam or not to spam

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Nafri Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises	Posted - 2006.08.07 11:23:00 - [31] I still prefer the combination of my idea and the other idea Give Stations reinforced mode, make POS modules which increase station HP, and take away the need to kill the POSes first. POSes should not be the only target in a war, as it is now. From Dusk till Dawn Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected])
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.08.07 11:36:00 - [32] Yeah, that probably makes sense, although I think "reinforced" should probably be handled subtly differently to how it is with POS.
Kaaii Caldari Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2006.08.07 11:41:00 - [33] Require an OUTPOST for system sov. Leave pos to moon mining "..Id rather fall beside 10 lions, than stand with One thousand sheep.." Trading 101
Hellraiza666 Regeneration Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.08.07 11:43:00 - [34] i was actually going make a post about this soon. The fact that we play this game for FUN, yet POS killing is more of a chore. Theres no fun in it. WHy pay to do chores? CCP should be paying us for killing POS not us paying them to play a game to do it. CCP one of the worst ideas you ever bought to eve was POS, or more particularly sovereignty
DeadDuck Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.08.07 11:46:00 - [35] I agree with the topic starter. Something really needs to change in the POS subject.
Tarri FACTA NON VERBA Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.08.07 11:46:00 - [36] Edited by: Tarri on 07/08/2006 11:46:10 Originally by: Hellraiza666 i was actually going make a post about this soon. The fact that we play this game for FUN, yet POS killing is more of a chore. Theres no fun in it. WHy pay to do chores? CCP should be paying us for killing POS not us paying them to play a game to do it. CCP one of the worst ideas you ever bought to eve was POS, or more particularly sovereignty QFT, 20 Ç per player per hour for anyone involved in killing a POS. And that isn¦t even enough money.... ----
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.08.07 11:55:00 - [37] Meh. I think the only problem with Sov is that it locks out stations. Everything else about the implementation - fuel savings, map marker, shipyards etc - seems to make sense. Only other change you might make if you decouple like that is that station ownership overrides sov automatically.
quellious COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.08.07 12:07:00 - [38] Nice post idea, my feeling is the following: - First, POS protecting a station balance a bit the game between a building and a fighting entity (read entity as corp/aliance/coalition of alliances). It gives industial entity an oportunity to build something without being really annoyed by a smaller fighting entity. I think we still need a mechanisme of that sort. - Next, POS war mean that, after reinforce mode, you have to get people online. This is from my point of view the main drawback of POS war. It's make the game interfering with Real Life. I even heard some people planning 1 or 2 holiday days to be there. - On the other hand, reinforced mode ensure that you cannot conquer an area with just 1 night of big fight. A good solution would, from what i think: - Not force people being online at a random time. Average number on a long time (1 week ?) only should be taken in account. - Allow to counter some part of damage with a pure industrial force. For example, you could give 10% shield per day to a station, by hauling like 200K m3. (numbers to ajust). - Allow a bigger force, being there for like 1 or 2 week, to capture a station. - It should also force people doing PvP, but without the necessity of blobing. - It should force people to spend some time in near their system, in order to avoid big entity claiming whatever empty area. Some technical propositions: - In every system with station, a named NPC spawn about every 2 hour. The entity that kill the most on 2 complete week won station ownership. If less than 10% of those NPC are killed, station become unclaimed (and you need 1 week oof NPCing to take it again). - Same idea with spawning secure containers. You need archeology skill and 30min near the container to get 1 item. Entity that have the more of those items get sovereignty. - Variation: Place those NPC and items spread in the contellation. Thus you need to spread forces, which will force small engagements in every system. - Variation: You can buy 1 of those items, per day, in empire. You can only haul it in basic industrial ship, and it take 10k m3 (forcing hauler with expanders + some escort). For technical implementation, make that item as a fitted item, which only haulers have bonus to fitt it. - Variation: 50 NPC tag allow you to buy 1 item, 1 per day maximum. - Variation: While mining rare ore, at random time you can get 1 of those items free. Roleplay raw background: Station require some quantic technology approching jump gate requirements, which from time to time loss a part of the fuel in probabilistic jump. You need to gather again this fuel to keep station services runnning (and a service is claiming). - Variation for POS (why not) 1 or 2 moons in system give 1 item per day. Spreading 10 POS will be of no use, but kill the only 1 will not guaranty soverignty neither. It just gives an advantage. That's enough for today :) c u - > Order Falcon & Pilgrim > Colsup
Gradinger Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.08.07 12:10:00 - [39] although i cannot add many ideas atm, i too think something needs to be changed. IF we could fight at a POS with capitals etc, it could be some fun maybe, but apparently it's close to impossible to have major fights at POS¦s. on the other hand if numbers dont exceed the 100 player-mark it's very much fun to fight caps but players restricting their own numbers will definately NOT happen (not b4 everyone is soo **ed about the current sys that he joins a smaller group of ppl.. maybe ccp is just waiting for ppl to get **ed enough ) I know this topic is about the sov-system, but on a side-note i¦d like to mention that i¦d appreciate it if CCP would publish some sort of recommendations and stuff like: "you need a dual-core machine with blahblah graphics card for smooth gameplay and still you could suffer client lag.. whahah" "although you are free to try 200vs200 ppl blob-fights do not expect it to be lag-free or even working.. we recommend 100vs100 maximum..." instead of the current "Do everything you want, this is a free universe, there is no lag (server-side)" rant over. :) hope to get home soon to kill some stuff - in the (still) best game ever.
NereSky Gallente Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.08.07 12:10:00 - [40] a) get rid of 'Re-inforced mode' b) increase shield hit points c) 1 hour to anchor a tower 6 hrs to online or Get rid of POS's Hating pos's as there are in its current state 'burn them all'
Recluse Viramor Chosen Path Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.08.07 12:15:00 - [41] Originally by: Nafri I still prefer the combination of my idea and the other idea Give Stations reinforced mode, make POS modules which increase station HP, and take away the need to kill the POSes first. POSes should not be the only target in a war, as it is now. BEST IDEA EVER POS warfare is ruining EVE and the servers are not designed for it.
Azuriel Talloth M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.07 12:22:00 - [42] Agreed with OP. CCP needs to find a balance between station ping-pong, and omgwtf deathstar POS requiring huge server-killing fleets just to get them into reinforced. At the moment it's too much on the defensive side. CCP Please rename "Warp Disrupt Probes" to "Interdiction Spheres", thanks!
really dummy	Posted - 2006.08.07 12:23:00 - [43] Edited by: really dummy on 07/08/2006 12:23:48 Edited by: really dummy on 07/08/2006 12:23:34 Posting with main is better.
quellious COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.08.07 12:25:00 - [44] If going for that solution, add some protection generator that must be taken at the same time in constellation, to spread fight on several systems (reducing blob and lag). Make station conquer a multiple synchronous small fight :) - > Order Falcon & Pilgrim > Colsup
Nafri Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises	Posted - 2006.08.07 12:32:00 - [45] Something for reinforced timer Taking down a station should need about 10 dreads firing on it for 2h straight. Then station goes into reinforced mode which will take about 1 week. Reinforced mode ends excactly after 1 week, and stations comes out of reinforced excatly on that time where it was put into reinforced. Now defenders have 12h in which they have to defend the station. Within this 12h the attackers can shoot down the station into "changing stage", its kind of a flag which is raised on the station. The party which has the flag raised on the station after 12h is the new owner. This stops station pingpong, stations can only switch owners once a week. It still leads to blobbing, but at least at the station, where both parties have this problem. Defenders and attackers have to cover both about 1.5 timezones, you cant just bubbel the system for 5h, you need to be able to repel an attack at any possible moment. Putting station in "changing" mode will take with 10 dreads another 30mins, so no last moment hits are possible. From Dusk till Dawn Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected])
The Enslaver Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.07 12:38:00 - [46] The entire sovereignty making stations invulnerable is fine imo... POS's are the problem. I would prefer to see POS's have an active role in this; here is my proposal: -Sovereignty is claimed with a sovereignty module that costs about 300-500m -Module can only be fitted to large POS's. -Module causes reinforced times to 'fluctuate' randomly by +/- 6-18 hours of the supposed amount. -When fitted to a POS, no weaponry/hardeners can be fitted to that POS. -The oldest sov module placed overrides any new modules placed: you have to kill the sov module(s) for yours to take effect. Simple, instantly solves the POS spamming issue, and means that the 'owners' actually have to defend their system properly. --------
Pepperami Art of War	Posted - 2006.08.07 12:44:00 - [47] Originally by: The Enslaver The entire sovereignty making stations invulnerable is fine imo... POS's are the problem. I would prefer to see POS's have an active role in this; here is my proposal: -Sovereignty is claimed with a sovereignty module that costs about 300-500m -Module can only be fitted to large POS's. -Module causes reinforced times to 'fluctuate' randomly by +/- 6-18 hours of the supposed amount. -When fitted to a POS, no weaponry/hardeners can be fitted to that POS. -The oldest sov module placed overrides any new modules placed: you have to kill the sov module(s) for yours to take effect. Simple, instantly solves the POS spamming issue, and means that the 'owners' actually have to defend their system properly. I like it, but the pos with the module should be able to mount some defence, perhaps make the module consume 50-75% of the CPU/Powergrid
The Enslaver Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.07 12:48:00 - [48] Edited by: The Enslaver on 07/08/2006 12:48:39 Originally by: Pepperami I like it, but the pos with the module should be able to mount some defence, perhaps make the module consume 50-75% of the CPU/Powergrid Thats the entire point though - this is designed to require people to defend. Artificial defences defending in this way goes against the entire point of EVE imo... Not to mention it being viable with the current server situation. --------
Maya Rkell Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.08.07 12:54:00 - [49] Originally by: Nafri POSes are ruining alliance warfare, they ruin 0.0 space, they lead to thing the server cant handle (the megablobb). Rework them now! Please CCP, your game is kinda dying in 0.0 space... The moon mining function is critical to T2 production... I'd rather replace them with colonies, but eh.
Pepperami Art of War	Posted - 2006.08.07 12:59:00 - [50] Originally by: The Enslaver Thats the entire point though - this is designed to require people to defend. Artificial defences defending in this way goes against the entire point of EVE imo... Not to mention it being viable with the current server situation. Yeah, I agree that the defense needs to fall to people. I just think limited light defences should be available to prevent small groups in off-peak hours reinforcing/destroying a pos. I don't think the defences should be a threat to any sizable fleet or capitals.
The Enslaver Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.07 13:02:00 - [51] Originally by: Pepperami Originally by: The Enslaver Thats the entire point though - this is designed to require people to defend. Artificial defences defending in this way goes against the entire point of EVE imo... Not to mention it being viable with the current server situation. Yeah, I agree that the defense needs to fall to people. I just think limited light defences should be available to prevent small groups in off-peak hours reinforcing/destroying a pos. I don't think the defences should be a threat to any sizable fleet or capitals. A couple of small guns and a scrambler then perhaps... Nothing more. --------
Joerd Toastius Octavian Vanguard	Posted - 2006.08.07 13:03:00 - [52] Originally by: quellious Nice post idea, my feeling is the following: Most major PvP alliances have huge logistics wings. Anything a non-combat alliance can do, a PvP alliance can do too only usually with more people and with overwhelming military support on hand too. I can see some merit in the ability to fight economically I guess (although as per preceding sentence that's not going to swing the balance away from large 0.0 alliances as they tend to be rich anyway), but I don't think relying on a horrible mechanic like belt ratting is a good idea. Originally by: Nafri Something for reinforced timer Sounds reasonable
Xthril Ranger hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.08.07 13:08:00 - [53] I got no problems with having to go through a coupple of pos before attacking a station. What I got a problem with is that you can put up a lot of towers so the amount of time to kill them all gets too long. (/me eyes tfc ) There is 1 quick fix , that is removing the bug that makes you not get mail when someone anchors a tower in a system you got sovereignty. If you get a mail you got 30 min to secure the area or 1 hour to destroy it. Not much , but at least it doesnt require any design changes. Then you could up the anchoring time. Or require that you sit at the pos while anchoring it. If you have t babysit the anchoring process while the hostile forces gets mail that you are there it will be thought to anchor a lot of pos. But what if the defender choose to pos spam? I dont know. maybe find a way to break the pos sovereignty claim that dont require the pos to go down. Or large towers could cost more. More in the line with the fleet required to take it down. you'll never jump alone
Xrak Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.07 13:20:00 - [54] I really hope CCP is/has read this thread. POSes really do suck big time and are ruining 0.0
gaz widdow	Posted - 2006.08.07 13:22:00 - [55] I like the idea of the more pos the more the station hp,s. But that said i mean x10 even 20 the hit points they are atm so it takes not 1 hour to take a station but days depending on pos numbers, This gives defenders a chance to react. pos are here to stay thats for sure, but atm they are killing the game IMO. This way theres no need to change anything at the pos and still could be used to assemble fleets for the on comming battle a simple change. Im no programmer but to impliment massive changes would take ccp months. This way im sure it would be a easy fix and done sooner rather than later.
Jago X	Posted - 2006.08.07 13:39:00 - [56] Originally by: Nafri I still prefer the combination of my idea and the other idea Give Stations reinforced mode, make POS modules which increase station HP, and take away the need to kill the POSes first. POSes should not be the only target in a war, as it is now. agreed that the pos warfare we have atm needs to go .. and i like this idea. Obvioulsly the amount of hp and how the reinfoced mode works (presumably the defending side will still be able to dock and use station services while the station is in reinforced mode?) will be the crucial factors in wether an idea liek this would actually change anything. also remeber that if it takes 10 dreads only a couple of hours to put a station into reinforced mode then large alliance will jump in 30-40 dreads + a 200man fleet and do it in 10mins - imo playing station ping-pong will be just as dull as what we have now.
spurious signal Caldari Brainiacs	Posted - 2006.08.07 13:47:00 - [57] Edited by: spurious signal on 07/08/2006 13:46:53 Originally by: Pepperami Yeah, I agree that the defense needs to fall to people. I just think limited light defences should be available to prevent small groups in off-peak hours reinforcing/destroying a pos. I don't think the defences should be a threat to any sizable fleet or capitals. Problem with this is that EVE will then become a game of "Who can get the most people to set alarm clocks for 4am?". This is what happened in DaoC where midnight ninja raids when the opposing faction were all asleep in bed became the method of choice for keep captures. That's not fun, it's just abuse of game mechanics to avoid tough fights, and the same would happen here. There need to be positive incentives to taking POS's when they're defended but also positive incentives to defend the POS's. No, I don't know how to achieve this, but I'm starting to see what a poorly implemented idea POS's are
CB LoKi	Posted - 2006.08.07 13:57:00 - [58] I think it would be alot more funny if all the alliances stopped fighting for one month and use the ish they make to setup a outpost in every 0.0 system there is. That will naff the servers Please resize your signature, oh and I love you - Jacques ♥♥Give Zealot a Drone Bay♥♥
Cadman Weyland Millennium E.R.A	Posted - 2006.08.07 14:00:00 - [59] camn we get a statement from CCP as to why POS cause so much lag ? What ened is the lag coming from and why ? I was sat repairing one the other nite for hrs, my pc went all to hell by the end of it. Ive never liked the cluster of random free floating modules in space idea anyways and wonder if that plus the shield graphics are too blame. Even if pos are kept, od like to see the models swapped for some of those mini stations u get on Lvl 4s and Complexs. POS in their current form are ruining the game, too easy to spawn, too hard to kill. Im liking the idea of simply reducing pos to semi secure safe spots, factories and moon mining only, its the Outposts and Capturable stations that should have Sentries, reinforced modes and such. Director of Bubbles and Noobs
Wrayeth Inexorable Retribution	Posted - 2006.08.07 14:00:00 - [60] I agree 100% with the original post. POS warfare has really killed the fun in 0.0. This is one of the reasons I left -V-, because I was sick of dealing with RA's POS spam tactics that allowed an alliance consisting of maybe 200 active members to stand off several alliances with active memberships in the thousands. This is also the reason why my dread will be sitting in station in lowsec for the foreseeable future (CCP, can I have the ISK and skillpoints I spent on it back?). -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"

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