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Rift Scorn Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.09 10:36:00 - [61] Edited by: Rift Scorn on 09/08/2006 10:38:04 Originally by: Nebuli If youre getting pwned by those cruisers in your rupture then all other points of being ub3r pilot are invalid and I think we have found the problem lol. Tempest sucks? Is this a joke thread? i have to agree with this. Flown Properly the Tempest is a monster be it 1400's for fleet (load Quake and watch for those 3,500+ on a decent wrecking ) or Auto's for DPS and close range, not to mention since the auto changes they now take no cap to fire at all. The vagabond is nigh on un-catchable flown properly. The Sleipnir tanks & humps the damage out. On the smaller ship front the inties with auto's & Barrage can tear you a new one at almost 15 whilst you keep out of web range and track everything whilst zipping around at super speeds. Sorry, but anyone who says the minnies are lacking in any way must be doing something terribly wrong. I love my Minnie character i trained up, they're awesome. Your friendly clone activation expert, free of service to the eve community since '03!
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.08.09 11:32:00 - [62] Originally by: Nervar Well just reactivated my account, part of leaving inn the first place was due to silly mee speccing inn mini's Now that i got back ive discovered that the imblances have gotten even bigger with mini's slugging behind on last place inn most ship classes. And to much ave reading that the Dev's still havent admited to that the whole concept of minmatars being completely flawed. Seeing as they have released new mini ships with the sole purpose of keeping the targets well painted and still. That has to prove that they know there are some serious design flaws going on. The whole concept of hit and run type of class pretty much contradicts itself. Here we have ships thats faster(whoopido those 20ms shure helps) And yet we have poor tracking weapons. Transversal+projectiles equals to bad. They say we are supossed to bee a Jack of all trades master of none type of faction. That whole concept has never worked inn anny mmo ive ever played and never will, it will allways bee imbalanced either way on the scale. Projectile ammo still does less dmg than its counterparts. Our slott layouts are on a broad spectrum awfull with some expetions ofc. Our hitpoints are lower than out counterparts Our cap and regen are lower than our counterparts Our shields/armor are lower du to the fact we are supossed to fill a role that's flawed to the bone. Our clip sizes are just dumb making our dpm even poorer. Our dps is just... Our much rumored strong side being the Alpha strike has allready been nerfed and by the dev's inntention of making combat last longer, its prolly gonna get nerfed again. Yes the vagabond is a good ship alltough the low/mids still suffer from that jack of all trades thing. So leave that one out of it. Here is a fun comparison T2 electron blaster=22,4 dps T2 800 =18,05 dps (cant hit for F word) T2 dual 250=14,76 dps T2 1400 howie =12,84 dps (cant hit for F word) Wait that cant bee right.. or can it.. I could prolly fill a couple of pages with whine allone but il leave it that. CCP please throw us silly people that specced Minmatar a friggin bone. /emote steps into his flame proof suit and limps along to train to for something else. alright first stop whining and doing numbers cuz on minmatar you need to fly it, then buy a vagabond and a sleipnir, then come back and dare say minmatar is flawed
PeopleDamager Minmatar Total Failure	Posted - 2006.08.09 12:17:00 - [63] /singed. Im fully minnie specced, even with dual dps bonus its still *****s. the guns miss a lot, if you want to make use of the speed/transveral its even worse ofcrouse. our ammo is weaker, why? read the description of our 1400mm artilary cannons... let me quote on that "The ultimate artillery cannon. It hurls death and destruction over incredible distances." WRONG! the 425 rail has much better range than the 1400, even with its large falloff. just have to say... LOAL! The minmatar concept is, from what i can make of it: average shield and armor, with good passive tanking. high speeds and the ability to stay at range because of that. range and speed are your main defence. this is just made impossible due to the lack of tracking/damage/speed/range good *** game, training up for minnie just wasted 2,5 years of training time on my main. Originally by:** Nervar Well just reactivated my account, part of leaving inn the first place was due to silly mee speccing inn mini's Now that i got back ive discovered that the imblances have gotten even bigger with mini's slugging behind on last place inn most ship classes. And to much ave reading that the Dev's still havent admited to that the whole concept of minmatars being completely flawed. Seeing as they have released new mini ships with the sole purpose of keeping the targets well painted and still. That has to prove that they know there are some serious design flaws going on. The whole concept of hit and run type of class pretty much contradicts itself. Here we have ships thats faster(whoopido those 20ms shure helps) And yet we have poor tracking weapons. Transversal+projectiles equals to bad. They say we are supossed to bee a Jack of all trades master of none type of faction. That whole concept has never worked inn anny mmo ive ever played and never will, it will allways bee imbalanced either way on the scale. Projectile ammo still does less dmg than its counterparts. Our slott layouts are on a broad spectrum awfull with some expetions ofc. Our hitpoints are lower than out counterparts Our cap and regen are lower than our counterparts Our shields/armor are lower du to the fact we are supossed to fill a role that's flawed to the bone. Our clip sizes are just dumb making our dpm even poorer. Our dps is just... Our much rumored strong side being the Alpha strike has allready been nerfed and by the dev's inntention of making combat last longer, its prolly gonna get nerfed again. Yes the vagabond is a good ship alltough the low/mids still suffer from that jack of all trades thing. So leave that one out of it. Here is a fun comparison T2 electron blaster=22,4 dps T2 800 =18,05 dps (cant hit for F word) T2 dual 250=14,76 dps T2 1400 howie =12,84 dps (cant hit for F word) Wait that cant bee right.. or can it.. I could prolly fill a couple of pages with whine allone but il leave it that. CCP please throw us silly people that specced Minmatar a friggin bone. /emote steps into his flame proof suit and limps along to train to for something else.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.08.09 12:25:00 - [64] Originally by: PeopleDamager /singed. Im fully minnie specced, even with dual dps bonus its still *****s. the guns miss a lot, if you want to make use of the speed/transveral its even worse ofcrouse. our ammo is weaker, why? read the description of our 1400mm artilary cannons... let me quote on that "The ultimate artillery cannon. It hurls death and destruction over incredible distances." WRONG! the 425 rail has much better range than the 1400, even with its large falloff. just have to say... LOAL! The minmatar concept is, from what i can make of it: average shield and armor, with good passive tanking. high speeds and the ability to stay at range because of that. range and speed are your main defence. this is just made impossible due to the lack of tracking/damage/speed/range good *** game, training up for minnie just wasted 2,5 years of training time on my main. Originally by:** Nervar Well just reactivated my account, part of leaving inn the first place was due to silly mee speccing inn mini's Now that i got back ive discovered that the imblances have gotten even bigger with mini's slugging behind on last place inn most ship classes. And to much ave reading that the Dev's still havent admited to that the whole concept of minmatars being completely flawed. Seeing as they have released new mini ships with the sole purpose of keeping the targets well painted and still. That has to prove that they know there are some serious design flaws going on. The whole concept of hit and run type of class pretty much contradicts itself. Here we have ships thats faster(whoopido those 20ms shure helps) And yet we have poor tracking weapons. Transversal+projectiles equals to bad. They say we are supossed to bee a Jack of all trades master of none type of faction. That whole concept has never worked inn anny mmo ive ever played and never will, it will allways bee imbalanced either way on the scale. Projectile ammo still does less dmg than its counterparts. Our slott layouts are on a broad spectrum awfull with some expetions ofc. Our hitpoints are lower than out counterparts Our cap and regen are lower than our counterparts Our shields/armor are lower du to the fact we are supossed to fill a role that's flawed to the bone. Our clip sizes are just dumb making our dpm even poorer. Our dps is just... Our much rumored strong side being the Alpha strike has allready been nerfed and by the dev's inntention of making combat last longer, its prolly gonna get nerfed again. Yes the vagabond is a good ship alltough the low/mids still suffer from that jack of all trades thing. So leave that one out of it. Here is a fun comparison T2 electron blaster=22,4 dps T2 800 =18,05 dps (cant hit for F word) T2 dual 250=14,76 dps T2 1400 howie =12,84 dps (cant hit for F word) Wait that cant bee right.. or can it.. I could prolly fill a couple of pages with whine allone but il leave it that. CCP please throw us silly people that specced Minmatar a friggin bone. /emote steps into his flame proof suit and limps along to train to for something else. well i really don't see what's wrong with minnies and you're 1400mm arguement is crap, it does hurl death and destruction over incredible distances and i don't see it stated anywhere in the description that it has a longer range then a 425mm railgun so that's a crap arguement aswell. Also don't start talking about lack of tracking/damage/speed/range cuz there isn't any
Montero Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.08.09 14:46:00 - [65] Edited by: Montero on 09/08/2006 14:46:22 I thought i'd post something constructive but jesus... it isn't worth it. Instead i'll say this: If you have been playing this game for as long as alot of the minmatar guys in this thread who are whining and can't work out the basics of game mechanics and how to exploit the other races' weaknesses then nmaybe you should end yourself. In rl. --------- Scrapheap Challenge
Imperial Coercion Amarr	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:02:00 - [66] Originally by: Nervar Edited by: Nervar on 08/08/2006 18:21:19 Il give it to the Amarr they have rough time too. But thats acknowledged and getting changed. What, where? Adversus solem ne loquito Minmatar
Mr Peanut The New Empire R i s e	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:11:00 - [67] As a race you are the jack of all trades, but your ships are still just as specialized as everyone elses IMO, just with the capacity to think a little more outside of the box. You don't have anywhere close to the worst ships in each class: The Rifer is everyone's favourite T1 friggy. The Rupture is a great T1 Cruiser. The Vagabond is by far the most popular and feared HAC (and maybe even most feared non-capital ship) for solo PvP. The Huginn gets a bonus to freaking web range (OK so maybe it's not as hot in solo PvP as the vaga is, but damn that bonus would pwn in gangs). ACs do less damage than blasters because they have more range and no cap useage. Blasters are supposed to be the end-all kings of DPS so live with it. The Tempest is a popular PvP ship and probably the favourite sniper atm (yes, I know it doesn't do the most DPS or have the most range). The Typhoon has become a popular PvE ship and has the fun of spamming cruises and torps without being Caldari. -Overall- I can agree that Minmatar are not on the pointy tip of the buff/nerf curve, but oh well. You can't always be. Go nos an Amarr ship and laugh.
Montero Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:16:00 - [68] Originally by: Mr Peanut As a race you are the jack of all trades, but your ships are still just as specialized as everyone elses IMO, just with the capacity to think a little more outside of the box. You don't have anywhere close to the worst ships in each class: The Rifer is everyone's favourite T1 friggy. The Rupture is a great T1 Cruiser. The Vagabond is by far the most popular and feared HAC (and maybe even most feared non-capital ship) for solo PvP. The Huginn gets a bonus to freaking web range (OK so maybe it's not as hot in solo PvP as the vaga is, but damn that bonus would pwn in gangs). ACs do less damage than blasters because they have more range and no cap useage. Blasters are supposed to be the end-all kings of DPS so live with it. The Tempest is a popular PvP ship and probably the favourite sniper atm (yes, I know it doesn't do the most DPS or have the most range). The Typhoon has become a popular PvE ship and has the fun of spamming cruises and torps without being Caldari. -Overall- I can agree that Minmatar are not on the pointy tip of the buff/nerf curve, but oh well. You can't always be. Go nos an Amarr ship and laugh. The worrying thing is, most experienced Minmatar pilots agree with you. Myself inculded. --------- Scrapheap Challenge
Wrayeth Inexorable Retribution	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:18:00 - [69] Originally by: Ithildin Actually, pulse lasers have a lot better range without losing much damage at all from it. Additionally, AC fittings aren't tight. AC fittings are very generous compared to blasters or pulse lasers. The reason ACs are easier to fit is simple: ships like the tempest have fewer lowslots to play with than their Gallente and Amarr counterparts. This means they can't effectively fit RCUs, PDUs, and coprocessors without massively compromising their setup. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Wrayeth Inexorable Retribution	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:22:00 - [70] Originally by: Testy Mctest It's not as bad as you're making out. There's just a few outstanding things to look at: -Artillery DPS -Artillery fitting -AC DPS -AC ammo consumption -Fighting in falloff is not a good way to fight -Slight rebalancing of some stats (split shield/armour on some ships, speed/lock range/etc not making up for poor cap and such) Although none of it by any means breaks us. Sure, we still have some very bad ships. But so does everyone. Well, I'm not so certain of that. Thanks to Null L and smart piloting skills, it's impossible to maintain range on a blasterthron without a faction warp scrambler on your tempest (something with a 30km range like a republic fleet warp disruptor to allow you to take advantage of the range boost from Barrage L). Also, dominixes generally own tempests as well unless the tempest can stay out of nos range, again requiring a faction warp scrambler. Further more, once the hyperion hits the scene, it will be impossible to maintain range, period. What does this mean? It means that if you run into any of the Gallente battleships, your tempest is toast. Balanced? Hardly. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Shamis Orzoz SniggWaffe	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:47:00 - [71] 1400's with t2 ammo should have more range than rails. But I'm not complaining. My tempest with 1400's, quake and t2 siege does 700 dps. And no, I'm not counting reload times because the target is always dead before I reload. All of that damage is still dealt when I have ZERO cap. All of that damage while I'm jamming 2 caldari battleships. I think the tempest is just fine. Its not a ship for noobs, and its not a ship for people who can't think. But if you have good setups, tactics, and a lot of skillpoints the tempest rocks. This thread is silly. Minmater are the ideal race at the moment, because their lack of DPS doesn't hold them back at all. This provides variety and excitement in combat...and they are still Champs in my mind. Even if the Claw is one of the wort ships in EVE. Shamis
Montero Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:49:00 - [72] Originally by: Shamis Orzoz 1400's with t2 ammo should have more range than rails. Out of curiosity, why? --------- Scrapheap Challenge
Wrayeth Inexorable Retribution	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:55:00 - [73] Being able to fire when you have no cap doesn't help much if you can't tank the incoming damage (i.e. have no cap to run your repairers). It will give you an edge in a rare few situations, but most of the time it doesn't do much for you. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Montero Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.08.09 15:57:00 - [74] Originally by: Wrayeth Being able to fire when you have no cap doesn't help much if you can't tank the incoming damage (i.e. have no cap to run your repairers). It will give you an edge in a rare few situations, but most of the time it doesn't do much for you. The number of times i've won fights while cap dead says you are wrong. --------- Scrapheap Challenge
Wrayeth Inexorable Retribution	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:03:00 - [75] Originally by: Montero The number of times i've won fights while cap dead says you are wrong. That's the exact opposite of my experience. When I get deadcapped that's usually it. I may be able to continue firing, but I still die. I think it just has to do with luck and which opponents one runs into. Usually, I win or lose with a good chunk of my cap left or the ability to inject more. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Mila Prestoc	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:15:00 - [76] Ask the missile caldari's, firing with no cap is a advantage not to be overlooked. @ the op: The very few valid points you have are lost in all the bad figures and not including all the factors (ie sigg of 320 on a phoon vs 400 sig of BS size guns/torps is a good advantage since it reduces the damage by 1/5 and affects tracking which makes up for the overall HP difference in my eyes). I suggest looking at the specific problems individually and finding the existing topics on them such as the HP balance (armour tank phoon having more shield hp), breacher needing more speed/agility/slot and the bellicose needing a increase in sensor strength since its now a EW boat, it could also do with bonus changing to missiles and a defensive redesign since it has no defensive EW like the other 3 races. But there are already topics on these subjects. Let this topic die, its for the best. ------------------------- Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
Nafri Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:16:00 - [77] Originally by: Montero Originally by: Shamis Orzoz 1400's with t2 ammo should have more range than rails. Out of curiosity, why? cause minmatar were supposed to have better ranges thx to their falloff, tech2 ammo changed that From Dusk till Dawn Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected])
Nebuli Caldari Art of War	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:19:00 - [78] Wrayeth I realy dont know why you dont just train another race, everytime I see you post its to say how much Min suck, how much you get pwned by blasterthrons in your temps etc etc, honostly there is nothing wrong with Min AS LONG as the fighting style suits you, I think this is why some people LOVE Min and otherts hate them, if you have good piloting skills then people tend to love them, if you dont then you tend to hate them. CEO - Art of War
eLLioTT wave Art of War	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:21:00 - [79] If this thread gets a dev response before the 58 page amarr one.... well, there WILL BE BLOOD!
Mila Prestoc	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:25:00 - [80] Originally by: eLLioTT wave If this thread gets a dev response before the 58 page amarr one.... well, there WILL BE BLOOD! LOL Even I have enough faith in Tux n co to not reply to this topic, theres nothing worth replying to. I wonder when the Amarr thread people will realise that for there thread. ------------------------- Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
Nafri Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:26:00 - [81] Nervar is a Artillery *****, same as me. And artillery on Minmatar ships, thats something which is hardly decent. The ammount of fitting mods you need is rediculus, your tracking really is a pain, and your damage output is subpar at all. Quake Ammo is nice, but it is not like other BS dont have closerange tech2 ammo aswell. Anyway, what is really blowing is the tracking and the hard fitting. From Dusk till Dawn Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected])
Nafri Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:27:00 - [82] Originally by: Nebuli Wrayeth I realy dont know why you dont just train another race, everytime I see you post its to say how much Min suck, how much you get pwned by blasterthrons in your temps etc etc, honostly there is nothing wrong with Min AS LONG as the fighting style suits you, I think this is why some people LOVE Min and otherts hate them, if you have good piloting skills then people tend to love them, if you dont then you tend to hate them. I have tripple the SP for minmatar than for Caldari, but I end to prefer the caldari counterpart for except one thing, fleetdamage. From Dusk till Dawn Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected])
Montero Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:28:00 - [83] Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Montero Originally by: Shamis Orzoz 1400's with t2 ammo should have more range than rails. Out of curiosity, why? cause minmatar were supposed to have better ranges thx to their falloff, tech2 ammo changed that fair reason that. Maybe the minmatar sniping ammo should get a slight falloff increase as well? Albeit that this is moving slightly away from the subject of the thread, which is to say that the OP needs to end himself. --------- Scrapheap Challenge
Nafri Caldari Cataclysm Enterprises	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:29:00 - [84] Originally by: Montero Edited by: Montero on 09/08/2006 14:46:22 I thought i'd post something constructive but jesus... it isn't worth it. Instead i'll say this: If you have been playing this game for as long as alot of the minmatar guys in this thread who are whining and can't work out the basics of game mechanics and how to exploit the other races' weaknesses then nmaybe you should end yourself. In rl. maybe you rethink what your posting, lacking social skills shouldnt make the internet a ffa for insults From Dusk till Dawn Sig removed, e-mail us if you'd like to know why. -ReverendM ([email protected])
Montero Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:31:00 - [85] Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Montero Edited by: Montero on 09/08/2006 14:46:22 I thought i'd post something constructive but jesus... it isn't worth it. Instead i'll say this: If you have been playing this game for as long as alot of the minmatar guys in this thread who are whining and can't work out the basics of game mechanics and how to exploit the other races' weaknesses then nmaybe you should end yourself. In rl. maybe you rethink what your posting, lacking social skills shouldnt make the internet a ffa for insults I don't lack social skills, i choose to insult those who whine and whinge without really thinking first. --------- Scrapheap Challenge
Wrayeth Inexorable Retribution	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:50:00 - [86] Edited by: Wrayeth on 09/08/2006 16:53:12 Originally by: Mila Prestoc Ask the missile caldari's, firing with no cap is a advantage not to be overlooked. I am a "missile Caldari". I fly both Caldari and Minmatar, and except for mobility and fleet capability, Caldari outclass Minmatar in every way. Again, I usually have cap left at the end of a fight, whether I've won or lost. Yes, not using cap to fire is an advantage, but it's not as massive as you'd make it out to be. I've flown Minmatar in both the "use cap to fire" and "don't use cap to fire" states, and have only actually seen the difference have an effect in one or two fights since the change. TBH, lately I've been wishing I'd gone for Gallente instead of Minmatar. Their ships don't seem to be anywhere near as gimped - in fact, they have some of the best in the game. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Montero Black Omega Security E.R.A	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:53:00 - [87] When you're doing something like taking on a BS with a cruiser it means you can actualy kill them (assuming you're speed tanking/praying) as opposed to your guns constantly switching off. --------- Scrapheap Challenge
Wrayeth Inexorable Retribution	Posted - 2006.08.09 16:59:00 - [88] Originally by: Montero When you're doing something like taking on a BS with a cruiser it means you can actualy kill them (assuming you're speed tanking/praying) as opposed to your guns constantly switching off. Well, aside from the fact that BS are supposed to kill cruisers.... I'm mostly a battleship pilot. I'm talking about fights on the battleship level, and I find not using any cap to fire doesn't help much compared to when projectiles used to take cap to fire. I find that, while the tempest is a good ship, a properly set up battleship with a good pilot from one of the other races will usually win unless I'm using EW on my tempest (oh, and EW is getting nerfed). The problems are most noticeable when fighting Gallente and Caldari, but even an armageddon can beat an AC tempest if the 'geddon pilot is smart and fits a web instead of a sensor booster. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Trojanman190 Caldari Everlasting Impact	Posted - 2006.08.09 17:06:00 - [89] Ive got almost 7mil sp and im a minnie pilot and I love it. I used to read over threads like these and think I was screwed for being minmatar... but thats just not true. I dont do much pvp so I cant comment there... but I do do a ton of pve. Hopefully I'm not going to far off topic... PVE Pros: 1. Tempest can shield tank or armor tank. I can beat the crap out of angels with a shield tank then turn around and armor tank sanshas and blood raiders. 2. Projectiles get a bunch of damage types. My guns fire Fusion at Angels, EMP at Bloodraiders, and Titanium Sabot Guristas. 3. Defenders cant hit bullets. I can NEVER get defenders to work... but npcs all seem to have 10 million sp dedicated to their Tech 3 Defenders. They almost never miss. When 4 guristas battleships are beating on a raven, its dps is signicantly lowered by those stupid defenders. We minmatar can choose not to worry about that. I think a lot of people over look defender missiles when viewing caldari as superior mission runners. 4. I can fit two webber when armor tanking. Scramble frigates pop in 1 volley. 5. When I'm low on cap I dont ever have to think about shutting my guns off to try and boost my tank... I never need to. [granted nor does a raven] This also plays into a team tactics... but more on that in a bit. 6. NPCS are morons and always try to run from you if you get to close, so even if you are shield tanking a pest [no webbers], simply aproaching a target will generally cause them to try to move away... thus reducing transversal to 0. My brother and I recently discovered a way to make our mission running extremely fast. We tried it on a guristas extrav lvl 4. Tempests Me: 6x 800mm Scout [Titanium] 2x Heavy Diminishing NOS 2x Fleeting Prop Inhibitors. 1x Afterburner II 2x Eutectic Cap Rechargers 1 Gyrostab II 1 Large Armor Repper II 3 N-Type Kinetic Armor Hardeners 1 N-Type Thermal Armor Hardener. My Bro: 6x 800mm Scout 1x Cap Transfer Array 1x Tractor Beam 1x Large Shield Booster II 1x Afterburner II 1x Kinetic Named Shield Hardener. 2x Eutectic Cap Rechargers. 3x Gyrostab II 3x PDS IIs He can transfer cap until hes empty and still blast away with his weapons. I carry all of our ammo and he grabs all the loot. We dont have to come back to loot missions. my tank never breaks, we never worry about defender missiles and we never worry about scramble frigs. Since we are AC tempests, we are always very close to our kills, so he can tractor in all cans as they pop. Im not a pvp dood... but maybe you guys are looking at it wrong. A great thing about eve is its diversity. If every race had an amazing solo pwnmobile this would be a boring game. Maybe the minmatar arent supposed to have a bs like that... maybe the minmatar are designed to be fantastic non ewar support ships. Like i said... my brother could cap transfer till he was empty and still dish out his full dps. I dont think thats possible in an blasterboat or a laserboat. Lastly [sorry for the uber long post!]... You guys keep talking about a 1 on 1 with a tempest and a blasterthron. I have only read a single post about such a 1 on 1 actually occuring. Most small scale pvp seems to be when a large group attacks a much smaller one. If 4 tempests attack 2 blasterthrons im pretty sure the tempests would win... Just like if 4 Blasterthrons attacked 2 tempests... you get the rest. I think looking at everyship in a 1v1 situation is way to shallow.
Wrayeth Inexorable Retribution	Posted - 2006.08.09 17:13:00 - [90] Edited by: Wrayeth on 09/08/2006 17:14:25 While you may be able to do uber things to NPCs with your Minmatar ships, PvP is much different. Minmatar have some very good ships (rifter, vagabond, rupture - I'd include the sleipnir if it had enough medslots to fit a web with its tank, scrambler, and MWD), but they also have some massive disadvantages which have already been brought up. I respect your bravery for posting based on your NPCing knowledge (since you'll probably get flamed all to hell), but PvP is a whole 'nother beast. EDIT: Also, 1-v-1's do happen, and it's not that unfrequent. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"

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