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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2003.10.09 17:29:00 -
[31]
Just wait for the damn patch...
And until it¦s here keep your arse safe or deal with the losses. Seriously... if you¦re considering leaving the game because you lost a ship (under any circumstances) then something¦s wrong with you 
Mai's Idealog |
NeoMorph
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Posted - 2003.10.09 17:38:00 -
[32]
Pirates are an important part to this game but unfortunatly spawn camping lagging is not pirating but as others have pointed out a blatent exploit.
CCP do need to sort this out asap... oh and before you think I'm moaning at all pirates I'm not. I got podded by a REAL pirate kill the other day (first time ever) - A pirate that chased me and locked me down and killed me... Now THAT's what pirating is about - not lagging someone out so they cant even have a chance to fight back.
If you win in true combat then it's worth more than if you exploit the game code just to get cheap kills.
Real pirates do combat... Exploiters just lag u out! It's as simple as that!
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<Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode
<Stavros> was a honda gold wing
<Ak-Gara> hah
<Stavros> |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.09 17:42:00 -
[33]
 Quote:
Pirates are an important part to this game but unfortunatly spawn camping lagging is not pirating but as others have pointed out a blatent exploit.
CCP do need to sort this out asap... oh and before you think I'm moaning at all pirates I'm not. I got podded by a REAL pirate kill the other day (first time ever) - A pirate that chased me and locked me down and killed me... Now THAT's what pirating is about - not lagging someone out so they cant even have a chance to fight back.
If you win in true combat then it's worth more than if you exploit the game code just to get cheap kills.
Real pirates do combat... Exploiters just lag u out! It's as simple as that!
So what do Corp and Alliance Military's do?
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
James Hawkings
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Posted - 2003.10.09 17:47:00 -
[34]
hahaha, were talking about ccp and eve lag here. it woudlnt' take more than 1 drone to lag a person jumping in to death.
~Built Hauler Tough~
~Dazed and Confused Currently~ |
Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.10.09 17:47:00 -
[35]
Quote:
If that was the case - wouldnt every ship that ran into a blockade die?
Of course! 
Unless it was equipped with an MWD & warp stabilizer(s) to counter-act the effects of the aforementioned modules, ehehehe!
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Turtle
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Posted - 2003.10.09 18:15:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Turtle on 09/10/2003 18:16:48
This subject is getting so old.
First drones are used in combat. If you have taken part in any large fleet actions you would know this.
Second camping a jumpin point is a tactical move. Unlike camping a gate there is no 10sec immunity timer when camping a jumpin point. So it comes down to whether I can lockon faster than you can warp, mwd, etc. This gives me a chance to trap you. At a gate if you are paying attention I can never trap you, you have to much time to avoid it.
What I find real funny is what are you going to do when CCP puts in the ability for me to track you in warp and pull you out of it. This is coming I hope.
In the final analysis it is up to the person flying the ship to be aware of there surroundings. If you are to lazy to to check your route often, equip your ship to avoid or run traps then maybe you shouldn't be flying. I have yet to be caught by this tactic. It is just to easy to avoid.
P.S. I have died many time in group combat do to lag. This is somthing that does need to be address but not at the cost of not using drones.
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3MPR3SS
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Posted - 2003.10.09 20:29:00 -
[37]
its an exploit but oh well until it gets fixed there's nothing u can do about it easy way to get around it make an alt to scout the area and if your alt gets blown up oh well didnt lose anything. yes its not fair not being able to fight back but they will do it until it gets fixed. another exploit that needs to be dealt with is the insta-bookmarks im not a pirate myself but many pirates have these bookmarks also and u cant get them because of it. the bookmarks are not only used by non-pirates,imagine that pirates complaining about the bookmarks when half of them use them theirselves anyways without pirating i would quit the game cause there would be no excitement in game. so keep up the good job guys and keep us on our toes
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Arthur Eld
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Posted - 2003.10.09 20:55:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Arthur Eld on 09/10/2003 20:56:06
Quote:
Even though it's probably the lamest tactics around, I wouldn't blame the pirates for this exploit really - I think someone should have thought about this earlier.
...
It's an exploit that has to be stopped, the sooner the better, but I don't think whining helps, really. Just be careful and don't put yourself in that kind of situation until it's fixed. It's not as this thing hasn't been discussed earlier...
Quote:
It's people using drones. Nobody except CCP can offer any real evidence of what's happening. Nobody but the persons using the drones can say with certainty why the drones are there. Nobody but CCP can state with any authority that a person is exploiting or preparing himself to defend himself under these conditions.
The fact that the pirates are always used as the scapegoat while others who do it are cheered for attacking the nasty pirates is enough for me to not give a damn about whoever it's used by or against.
Until you can state with absolute certainty the number of drones necessary to cause a player jumping into a solar system to lag beyond the invulnerability period, your case has no merit. Until someone can say "x number of drones when used against a y brand computer with z ghz of cpu" you are only attempting to offer the worst opinion of the motives of people you do not like to begin with.
And interpreting the hidden motives of people in determining whether or not they are exploiting is not your domain. It's CCP's.
Jash, You should be a lawyer.
____________________
First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire. We deal in lead.
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Cruise
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Posted - 2003.10.09 21:20:00 -
[39]
It stikes me that we may be missing something crucial here: Biomass Cartel camped a jump-in point in large numbers for a reason. I believe part of that was to stir up SOME sort of outcry that PvP is becoming more and more about 'acceptable game mechanics' then about game play!
It almost seems like anyone who really WANTS to play out the Pirate part is restricted left and right of late:
Problem: 1.0 - 0.5 Empire Space is unsafe due to Pirates podding/pod killing newbs/easy targets.
Answer: Bring in Uber CONCORDE - Done.
Problem: Pirates camping gates (or stations) that jump (or dock) as soon as things get too hot for their liking.
Answer: Introduce hostility timers to block access - Done.
Problem: Pirates able to block gate access in 0.4 - 0.0 because of no CONCORDE.
Answer: Gate sentries at nearly every gate, including in 0.0 space - Done.
So now where are they supposed to go for what they came into this game for, namely PvP? They can't attack someone at a station, the sentries will take them down. Can't camp a gate anymore, the sentries there too will knock 'em out. Can't play in 1.0 - 0.5 because CONCORDE will put a world of hurt on them that spells overkill with a capital O.
The asteroid belts? Okay, let's say you're a player that's got SOME savvy to being in 0.4 - 0.0 sec space. You spot them in local and you've got your foldered bookmarks up on screen, ready to run. They DO warp in, and you're intelligently mining about 40km out from the warp-in point and now you've warped away. Scratch that, no effective hunting for them there, save for the few UNWARY dolts who don't have a clue or are unluckily afk for a coffee break.
Planets and moons? Sha, right. The only thing around those areas are secure cans to store loot or ore when there's no station nearby.
Jump in points? Heyyyy...now there's a spot to trap prey! Only no, because the way things are too many ships and drones in one spot lags gameplay into the dirt, and when people warp in the delay between when the Pirates see them and when they have control of thier ship is excessive.
So we have a quandry. On the one hand there's the lag induced and 'OMGOMG SPLOIT!' screams coming left and right. On the otherhand we have a bunch of players who are being slowly neutered by everything against a balance in PvP gameplay. It's too easy for the 'prey' to get away in almost any given situation and the game has too much against the Pirate player to make their end of the gaming field 'fair'.
I agree that if someone KNOWINGLY sits a jump in point and shoves a myriad of drones out there HOPING it's going to induce lag and give them undue advantage it's exploitive, but I can also see in a way they're trying like hell to make a point and maybe..just maybe..not end up in a game that looks more and more like a dead end bore for them.
Just my 2 cents.
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Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis ad capul tuum saxum immane mittam.
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Joanna Pearson
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Posted - 2003.10.09 21:23:00 -
[40]
This villification of drone users is just silly tbh.
Though drones do worsen the lag/rendering situation when people jump in; the real problem is that the hostiles are sitting there and using a flaw in the game mechanics to provide them with a huge (and often, Terminal) advantage over their victim.
Even if there's 3-4 ships at the jump-in point of a system (without drones) my poor 56k modem and low-end graphics card; (albeit hardware that meets the game's specifications) could very easily get me killed simply in the time it takes to render the surroundings.
If I was to lose a ship to this; I would consider it a clear-cut exploit of the game mechanics, and report the perpetrator without blinking.
And CCP needs to address this situation once and for all and put PvP back where it belongs; in areas where all parties can participate on a level playing field.
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Joanna Pearson
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Posted - 2003.10.09 21:28:00 -
[41]
Quote:
It almost seems like anyone who really WANTS to play out the Pirate part is restricted left and right of late:
I really don't see what the problem is here; there are no restrictions to where you can attack players outside of empire space.
Piracy inside empire space should be more difficult, (it's not impossible, ask Space Invaders) as it's exactly that.. EMPIRE space; and some measure of security (sentry guns) is to be expected.
Really though, you're off-topic .. the issue's not with piracy in particular, but with PvPers camping jump-in points in general.
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Cruise
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Posted - 2003.10.09 22:01:00 -
[42]
Quote:
Quote:
It almost seems like anyone who really WANTS to play out the Pirate part is restricted left and right of late:
I really don't see what the problem is here; there are no restrictions to where you can attack players outside of empire space.
Piracy inside empire space should be more difficult, (it's not impossible, ask Space Invaders) as it's exactly that.. EMPIRE space; and some measure of security (sentry guns) is to be expected.
Really though, you're off-topic .. the issue's not with piracy in particular, but with PvPers camping jump-in points in general.
I'm sorry if you think I'm off-topic, but if you had read ALL of my post you would have noted I was talking about the fact that maybe they ARE camping jump-in points because their areas of hunting prey is limited.
1.0 - 0.5 space is extremely prohibitive. They may get in to wreak some havoc but it is extremly tightly controlled and it is more than a bit rough for them to get back out once they DO initiate hostile actions. I'm not saying they can't do it, it's just a b*tch to try.
I was trying to say that in some respects it seems like gameplay changes to PvP have consistently gone against Pirating, forcing them to do little more than cat-and-dog chases or camping spots.
The lag issue is being addressed with a GTG system, so the jump-in problem should hopefully go away. Hopefully hardware changes and some tweaking of code at CCP's end will help reduce lag as well.
I was simply saying I can see both sides to the issue.
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Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis ad capul tuum saxum immane mittam.
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Joanna Pearson
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Posted - 2003.10.09 22:30:00 -
[43]
Quote:
I'm sorry if you think I'm off-topic, but if you had read ALL of my post you would have noted I was talking about the fact that maybe they ARE camping jump-in points because their areas of hunting prey is limited.
1.0 - 0.5 space is extremely prohibitive. They may get in to wreak some havoc but it is extremly tightly controlled and it is more than a bit rough for them to get back out once they DO initiate hostile actions. I'm not saying they can't do it, it's just a b*tch to try.
This thread; though aimed at pirates by the original poster; is based purely on the action of camping jump-in points. Jash Illian has (rightly) pointed out that camping jump-ins isn't the unique domain of pirates, ergo the "piracy is too hard" argument isn't relevant when the practice of jump-in camping isn't limited to pirates.
As an aside though; It is possible for a known pirate to get into "safe" space; successfully kill an innocent (not in a war) and escape back to 0.0 space; though hellaciously difficult, as you stated above.
That is exactly how it should be.
One would hardly expect Hannibal Lector to be able to walk into the London Ritz, casually bite someone's nose off and meander away without things getting "more than a bit rough" for him.
Quote:
I was trying to say that in some respects it seems like gameplay changes to PvP have consistently gone against Pirating, forcing them to do little more than cat-and-dog chases or camping spots.
Defending an exploit with the excuse: "it's too hard to chase people down" does not (by any measure) condone using that exploit.
Quote:
The lag issue is being addressed with a GTG system, so the jump-in problem should hopefully go away. Hopefully hardware changes and some tweaking of code at CCP's end will help reduce lag as well.
I hope so too; but until the situation is resolved, CCP needs to clarify their position on the issue.
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NeoMorph
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Posted - 2003.10.10 01:40:00 -
[44]
Well what I gather they ARE going to fix it so it doesnt lag you... and you appear when your client finally loads so both sides have an equal chance for once.
TomB has also said he is going to optimise the drone models so it will help some peoples machines too.
At that point the pirates can legitimatly have umpteen drones out as it will be a bloody good point in their favour and I for one will be looking forward to the better battles it will create.
Not all pirate laggers do it for lag but to give them the edge when the battles occur. But there are a great many who do it for the easy kills it creates.
EVE was supposed to be about combat in these circumstances... not about whose client loads first gets the advantage!
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<Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode
<Stavros> was a honda gold wing
<Ak-Gara> hah
<Stavros> |
Cormyat Astara
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Posted - 2003.10.10 02:05:00 -
[45]
Jump-in camping is an exploit, but I fully understand why pirates do it. I know from experience it is virtually impossible to force the issue in PvP...the devs have made it so if a player is even semi-intelligent, he can be completely immune to attack.
I think a lot of the complaints would go away with two changes: 1) Randomize jump-in points so camping one is fruitless. 2) Allow for the ability to warp to a ship on scanner, so players wouldn't be able to hide at mid-warp boomarks forever and ever.
To me, allowing a player to be immune to attack anywhere outside a station makes no sense.
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