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AnyDayNow
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Posted - 2003.10.09 13:34:00 -
[1]
(This is not aimed at all Pirate corps - Only those using cheap tricks to get kills...)
The whole issue with Pirate Gangs camping jump-in spots ("allegedly" to lag players) and to kill them before their screen even loads is getting beyond a joke (in 0.4 even more so...)
These so-called pirates, are using nothing less than a complete exploit IMO, and one which is as dishonourable as they come. If these pirates are so good, and dedicated to what they do, why do they have to turn to such lame-tactics as this to kill players?
Why, when 99% of your (pirates) skills and money goes to fighting abilities, do you insist in not even trying to have a fair fight with people who are less dedicated to the art of combat?
IMO - It seems that most of the Major pirates are beta-testers, who, through vast knowledge of the game mechanics, now push this game to its limit by using every weakness *cough* to stamp their dominance on this game. They do things "because they can", not because they want to play the game properly.
No wonder people leave every day, getting killed before you have even had a chance to activate a single module is ridiculous. Cheap tactics like this will destroy the potential this game has - I know 3 people who are quitting because of last nights event in sarum prime
People dont mind losing to a pirate in a fair (ish  ) fight, they appreciate good game play - But lagging is cheap, dirty, and potentially the death of Eve Online...
(and dont say "what about checking the map" - the first 5-10 people who jumped and lost a BS, what were they meant to check?)
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Agent Red
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Posted - 2003.10.09 14:01:00 -
[2]
 *cry*
kthx
agent red |
Nirvy
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Posted - 2003.10.09 14:04:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Nirvy on 09/10/2003 14:07:26
Edited by: Nirvy on 09/10/2003 14:04:57
OMG
There are 2 other thread in this forum stating the same.
Quit trying to label people up as Exploiters. CCP should start clamping down on you guys accusing ppl left right and centre of exploiting.
The dev have already stated they are changing jump-in mechanics. You wont appear in a system until your client has loaded the screen up.
So WHY oh WHY do you keep re-hashing problems that are already being addressed?
*also cries* 
Mercenary | The Azath |
Cao Cao
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Posted - 2003.10.09 14:09:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Cao Cao on 09/10/2003 14:11:00
Well,
I agree that camping jump-in points with lots of lag is a cheap dirty trick. I personally don't do it (I just jam the sentry guns and take people out that way ).
However, CCP really needs to get around to fixing the jump-in location (it is supposed to be at the jumpgate leading back to the system you came from) as well as getting on with the load-in lag fix they've been promising.
And as for your friends quitting because of "the events in Sarum Prime last night," well tough beans jackass. If they can't handle losing a battleship, then they:
a) shouldn't be piloting one.
b) shouldn't be piloting one in 0.4 or less secure space.
c) shouldn't be playing this game.
Personally I really hope that all the people like your friends actually do quit. They are just crybabies who come and whine for bad changes (like UBER CONCORD and the n a z i sentry guns) that do nothing to improve the game and everything to bring it down.
Anyway, that's my point of view. I've lost multiple battleships and innumerable cruisers. But I take it in stride. The last time I didn't have a battleship for about 3 or 4 weeks, but did I cry? No. I shrugged it off, hopped back in my thorax (or blackbird), and went on with the game.
BECAUSE IT IS JUST A GAME.
Anyway, truly, the more carebears that quit, the better. That's my view.
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AnyDayNow
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Posted - 2003.10.09 14:24:00 -
[5]
1) I am glad these issues are being addressed asap - the quicker the better
2) all these crybabies ask for is the ability to at least fight back, is that wrong?
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Dajjal
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Posted - 2003.10.09 14:48:00 -
[6]
Miners: waaah waaah - the pirates are pirating
Pirates: waaah waaah - the miners are mining
Everyone else: waaah waaah - the whiners are whineing
Me: waaah waaah - i ran out of beer!
damn i hate that
_______________________
E pluribus unum |
Nicholas Marshal
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Posted - 2003.10.09 14:53:00 -
[7]
The biggest problem here, is that Waaay too many people are in Battleships when they cannot afford them.
By afford, I mean that you should be able to replace your Battleship at least twice from raw isk + plus all the equipment.
So that would mean that to own a BS, a person should relalistically have in excess of 200million isk (after purchase of BS 1) + other assets.
Also, the whiners should STOP whining. If you take your ship into 0.4 or below, there is a CHANCE that it will be destroyed - by large groups of aggressive pirates who will give you no mercy.
Like it or lump it.
If you don't like it, leave EVE.
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2003Cobra
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Posted - 2003.10.09 14:55:00 -
[8]
Well IMO it's whiners and cry babies like you that ruin this game and cause CCP to make all these changes to suit your tree-hugging needs. If you want a game with no PvP go play E and B. If not, deal with it.... |
Lu'cesha
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Posted - 2003.10.09 15:03:00 -
[9]
 Quote:
Well IMO it's whiners and cry babies like you that ruin this game and cause CCP to make all these changes to suit your tree-hugging needs. If you want a game with no PvP go play E and B. If not, deal with it....
Are you stupid ?? All he wants is a chance of fighting back, its NOT possible to fight back when you end up in a cloning station b4 the screen loads up after jumping.
Perhaps you are the "crybaby" for wanting to keep your lame tactics and being to chicken to fight peaple on even terms ?
It applies to all those who use "jumpin-lag-tactics" to get the upperhand.
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rocknic
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Posted - 2003.10.09 15:13:00 -
[10]
if everyone is so annoyed about people whinning, stop reading the forums and u will cut out at least 50-75% of all the moaning u normally come in contact with.
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Ebil Pirate
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Posted - 2003.10.09 15:15:00 -
[11]
thats the problem. the people who get jumped is becuz they dont want any combat. iv camped gates. ALONE. and iv seen people using mwd aft burners. not shooting back becuz they want to escape. people in eve do not want combat. they want to mine and get big bad ships that they dont know how to use. Give us pirates a way to attack people and we might not do stuff like this. atm we have gate camping = people get insta jumps bookmarks or jump in spawn point camping. those are 2 times a pirate can kill stuff.
*''''''''''''''''*
Ebil pirate has no fear
becuz she has lots of beer. |
Caelian
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Posted - 2003.10.09 15:21:00 -
[12]
Quote:
Well IMO it's whiners and cry babies like you that ruin this game and cause CCP to make all these changes to suit your tree-hugging needs. If you want a game with no PvP go play E and B. If not, deal with it....
LOL
Please explain what the PvP component is, in lagging someone out so they can't fire back while the environment renders.
To me it sounds more like PvE.
Well, at least they're working on a fix for the entire rendering and vulnerability issue, as another poster stated.
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Ebil Pirate
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Posted - 2003.10.09 15:27:00 -
[13]
AS SAID! WE ARE NOT DOING THIS TO LAG THEM OUT. BUT IF THEY SEE US THEY RUN. WE DONT WANT THEM TO RUN = WE LAG THEM OUT. CCP GET A STRUCTURE WARP SCRAMBLER. OR a device thats fitted on a bship. that takes HUGE ammounts of energy and cpu. then any ship that warps in 80k range. CANT WARP AWAY. = NO RUNNING AWAY TAKE IT LIKE A MAN.
*''''''''''''''''*
Ebil pirate has no fear
becuz she has lots of beer. |
Jasmyn
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Posted - 2003.10.09 15:37:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Jasmyn on 09/10/2003 15:44:00
indeed i agree with every point said.
yes its cheap camping gates to get kills
yes pirates need some action or else they have no purpose and everyone is a miner/trader
yes this game has pvp...so expect it sometime in your gaming exp you WILL loose something very expensive. i dont think pvp was a dev accident
to side with the pirates: i understand why you are lagging ppl at jump-in points.....its just another tactic used. i dont agree with it, but hey...its a pirates life however! it is possible to hunt ppl in system, and across systems. how do i know? because ive done it. have your gang seperate into search parties and go looking. your ship gets fat if all it does is camp and watch news
to side with the miners/ lagged and dead: i understand where you are comming from. lagging a person to kill them is not skill, its a mild exploit of lag. the pirates arent using their natural born killer instinct to actually go do work.
to both sides: pvp happens. deal with it. if you dont want to deal with it then keep your 97m miner in .4 and above and get rich and have a nice boring life. pirates...maybe get off your camping butts and hunt people! or npc convoys! one convoy can prodive several thousand-several hundred thousand isk. and you can do it in 1. space
thoughts? comments?
Someone once told me they loved me. |
DB Preacher
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Posted - 2003.10.09 15:39:00 -
[15]
Quote:
AS SAID! WE ARE NOT DOING THIS TO LAG THEM OUT. BUT IF THEY SEE US THEY RUN. WE DONT WANT THEM TO RUN = WE LAG THEM OUT. CCP GET A STRUCTURE WARP SCRAMBLER. OR a device thats fitted on a bship. that takes HUGE ammounts of energy and cpu. then any ship that warps in 80k range. CANT WARP AWAY. = NO RUNNING AWAY TAKE IT LIKE A MAN.
Fine by me, Ebil teddybear.
But on one condition...
CCP GIVE ME A WAY TO ATTACK YELLOW BELLY PIRATES HIDING INSIDE STATIONS
oh wait, we couldn't have that, because then the carebearsTM might actually be able to fight back without you running off with your tail between your legs everytime 3 people appear in local.
DB Preacher has no fear
becuz he stole Ebil pirate's beer.
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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Thanatar Thed
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Posted - 2003.10.09 15:42:00 -
[16]
*Hold his hands over his ears*
ARGHHHHHHHHHH .... SHUT UP
*Starts to rock backwards and forwards*
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.09 15:45:00 -
[17]
Quote:
Quote:
Well IMO it's whiners and cry babies like you that ruin this game and cause CCP to make all these changes to suit your tree-hugging needs. If you want a game with no PvP go play E and B. If not, deal with it....
Are you stupid ?? All he wants is a chance of fighting back, its NOT possible to fight back when you end up in a cloning station b4 the screen loads up after jumping.
Perhaps you are the "crybaby" for wanting to keep your lame tactics and being to chicken to fight peaple on even terms ?
It applies to all those who use "jumpin-lag-tactics" to get the upperhand.
Are you?
If he wanted the chance to fight back, he wouldn't be using the word 'pirate' anywhere in his post.
Everyone who has trained drones uses drones:
They will not stop. They will not give up one of their weapons. They will not give anyone a possible advantage by not having their drones out. That goes for anyone that uses drones, Pirate or Non-Pirate.
Anyone creating an ambush will set that ambush where it's most advantageous:
Fair fights are fought by fools and those without options. Anyone setting up an ambush will do so with the purpose of not giving you a chance to fight back. They are not concerned with your losses. They are concerned with theirs.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2003.10.09 15:48:00 -
[18]
The same people that was in M3G4 are now in BioMass Cartel, they had a facelift, not a brain transplant, still retards...
Convert Stations
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Gigi Ana
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Posted - 2003.10.09 15:57:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Miners: waaah waaah - the pirates are pirating
Pirates: waaah waaah - the miners are mining
Everyone else: waaah waaah - the whiners are whineing
Me: waaah waaah - i ran out of beer!
damn i hate that
Me: waaah waaah - I lost my walkman and now I can't block out the noise of all the crying!
~Gigi~ |
Indigo Seqi
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Posted - 2003.10.09 15:58:00 -
[20]
Ewwww, you address yourself as a "he" Preacher?
Props on the plastic surgery then, very nice work.
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DB Preacher
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Posted - 2003.10.09 16:00:00 -
[21]
Quote:
Ewwww, you address yourself as a "he" Preacher?
Props on the plastic surgery then, very nice work.
What do mean plastic surgery? I am a man! Just a very feminine man!
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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Mustafa Ken'Yova
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Posted - 2003.10.09 16:04:00 -
[22]
To the original poster:
Yes, these issues will be fixed in the upcoming patch hopefully so don't fret for too long. And I would also advise taking the offended pirate's calls of "carebear/crybaby/whiner" in stride because it is what they do best.
I would also like to point out that CCP will do what it feels is in the best interest of keeping the general population. I am all for pirates in the game, but if they are made too powerful and half the population leaves....well that isn't very good for business now is it ;) Just stating a plain and simple fact.
...... |
Cptn Stardust
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Posted - 2003.10.09 16:22:00 -
[23]
I agree with the first poster.
if it's becoming widespread, this camping entry points to systems, and ships getting destroyed before they have even loaded up, that sure is an exploit in my book.
for every person this happens to, you need to complain loudly.
if it's becoming as bad as the first poster says, then we need an emergency patch, or even take the main server offline until the issue is resolved, it's real serious.
or risk losing a whole lot more subscribers |
Lianhaun
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Posted - 2003.10.09 16:42:00 -
[24]
If you all concider camping such a huge problem, then support your local pirate and donate them 1 mil isk a day!
This is not a hijack
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Jasmyn
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Posted - 2003.10.09 16:47:00 -
[25]
Quote:
If you all concider camping such a huge problem, then support your local pirate and donate them 1 mil isk a day!
already 'donated' 1.3m to your corp...dont think i will be paying you more.
Someone once told me they loved me. |
Rufus Kex
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Posted - 2003.10.09 16:49:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Rufus Kex on 09/10/2003 16:53:28
I can't believe the pirates defending this exploit. Shouldn't people be able to warp anywhere without risking their ship? If this is your idea of PVP, I just lost all the respect for the earlier posts about "pirate life isn't as easy as you think it is".
Even though it's probably the lamest tactics around, I wouldn't blame the pirates for this exploit really - I think someone should have thought about this earlier.
And yeah, I've also been in this situation. My Scorp was down at armor damage before I had finished loading the system, and I had to bribe myself out of there. What to do but to accept it? Even though I just went there because I _had to_ to be able to reach main Lonetrek (Piak was bugged), I wasn't mad at it. It was my own fault, since I knew was on modem and knew the server itself was under severe lag, and I also knew about the practice of this kind of camping (especially there, in EC-P8R, hehe).
It's an exploit that has to be stopped, the sooner the better, but I don't think whining helps, really. Just be careful and don't put yourself in that kind of situation until it's fixed. It's not as this thing hasn't been discussed earlier... |
Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.10.09 17:03:00 -
[27]
ehehehe! 
bleh; spawn camping in any game is zero-skill PvP and no mistake..
Scrapyard Jack is really, really looking forward to the day when CCP finally changes system spawn points to prevent the use of this reprehensible tactic.
The sheer anticipation of the boards exploding with the posts of frustrated zero-skill PvPers who can no longer cheat their way to victory...ehehehe!
Frankly; ol' Jack believes that a great many problems could be solved with three simple steps:
1) Switch system spawn points to "the gate back to previous system"
2) Remove the inability to lock immediately after warping.
3) Create a warp scrambler and stasis webifier with a 100km range to give PvPers a chance to catch one another at belts/planets/etc.
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AnyDayNow
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Posted - 2003.10.09 17:10:00 -
[28]
"Are you stupid ?? All he wants is a chance of fighting back, its NOT possible to fight back when you end up in a cloning station b4 the screen loads up after jumping."
(forgot the quote button...)
This is all i am saying  is about Jump-in camping, not pirates in general
Yes - Pirates are good
Yes - gate-camping is part of game
Yes - PvP is the main element of the game
Yes - If u die in PvP combat, get on with it
No - Using a tactic that doesnt even let me enter combat (lagging) is not fair and about as lame as it gets (especially as u should be the best fighters in the game...)
Lets just hurry and bring in the patch for this - and get it out of the way. In the meantime, all those that continue to use it as a plan to kill people, i will be speaking to every bounty hunter i can to find u and stop this unfair practice asap
------
Note:
I used the word pirates in a general meaning to explain who is doing this, not to include every type of activity every pirate and pirate corp does - and i also took note to congratulate those pirate corps who work well and make a lot of money. TBH it amazes me that people have to resort to such a lame arse tactic when they are obviously some of the best fighters in teh game....
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Q NO2
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Posted - 2003.10.09 17:11:00 -
[29]
Quote:
Frankly; ol' Jack believes that a great many problems could be solved with three simple steps:
1) Switch system spawn points to "the gate back to previous system"
2) Remove the inability to lock immediately after warping.
3) Create a warp scrambler and stasis webifier with a 100km range to give PvPers a chance to catch one another at belts/planets/etc.
If that was the case - wouldnt every ship that ran into a blockade die?
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.09 17:13:00 -
[30]
Quote:
I can't believe the pirates defending this exploit. Shouldn't people be able to warp anywhere without risking their ship? If this is your idea of PVP, I just lost all the respect for the earlier posts about "pirate life isn't as easy as you think it is".
"Should people be able to warp anywhere without risking their ship?" is the question. In my opinon, yes... in 1.0 - .5 space and not under war conditions. Under war conditions, no. You should not be safe anywhere.
Quote:
Even though it's probably the lamest tactics around, I wouldn't blame the pirates for this exploit really - I think someone should have thought about this earlier.
...
It's an exploit that has to be stopped, the sooner the better, but I don't think whining helps, really. Just be careful and don't put yourself in that kind of situation until it's fixed. It's not as this thing hasn't been discussed earlier...
It's people using drones. Nobody except CCP can offer any real evidence of what's happening. Nobody but the persons using the drones can say with certainty why the drones are there. Nobody but CCP can state with any authority that a person is exploiting or preparing himself to defend himself under these conditions.
The fact that the pirates are always used as the scapegoat while others who do it are cheered for attacking the nasty pirates is enough for me to not give a damn about whoever it's used by or against.
Until you can state with absolute certainty the number of drones necessary to cause a player jumping into a solar system to lag beyond the invulnerability period, your case has no merit. Until someone can say "x number of drones when used against a y brand computer with z ghz of cpu" you are only attempting to offer the worst opinion of the motives of people you do not like to begin with.
And interpreting the hidden motives of people in determining whether or not they are exploiting is not your domain. It's CCP's.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2003.10.09 17:29:00 -
[31]
Just wait for the damn patch...
And until it¦s here keep your arse safe or deal with the losses. Seriously... if you¦re considering leaving the game because you lost a ship (under any circumstances) then something¦s wrong with you 
Mai's Idealog |
NeoMorph
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Posted - 2003.10.09 17:38:00 -
[32]
Pirates are an important part to this game but unfortunatly spawn camping lagging is not pirating but as others have pointed out a blatent exploit.
CCP do need to sort this out asap... oh and before you think I'm moaning at all pirates I'm not. I got podded by a REAL pirate kill the other day (first time ever) - A pirate that chased me and locked me down and killed me... Now THAT's what pirating is about - not lagging someone out so they cant even have a chance to fight back.
If you win in true combat then it's worth more than if you exploit the game code just to get cheap kills.
Real pirates do combat... Exploiters just lag u out! It's as simple as that!
-------------------------------------------
<Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode
<Stavros> was a honda gold wing
<Ak-Gara> hah
<Stavros> |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.10.09 17:42:00 -
[33]
Quote:
Pirates are an important part to this game but unfortunatly spawn camping lagging is not pirating but as others have pointed out a blatent exploit.
CCP do need to sort this out asap... oh and before you think I'm moaning at all pirates I'm not. I got podded by a REAL pirate kill the other day (first time ever) - A pirate that chased me and locked me down and killed me... Now THAT's what pirating is about - not lagging someone out so they cant even have a chance to fight back.
If you win in true combat then it's worth more than if you exploit the game code just to get cheap kills.
Real pirates do combat... Exploiters just lag u out! It's as simple as that!
So what do Corp and Alliance Military's do?
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
James Hawkings
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Posted - 2003.10.09 17:47:00 -
[34]
hahaha, were talking about ccp and eve lag here. it woudlnt' take more than 1 drone to lag a person jumping in to death.
~Built Hauler Tough~
~Dazed and Confused Currently~ |
Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.10.09 17:47:00 -
[35]
Quote:
If that was the case - wouldnt every ship that ran into a blockade die?
Of course!
Unless it was equipped with an MWD & warp stabilizer(s) to counter-act the effects of the aforementioned modules, ehehehe!
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Turtle
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Posted - 2003.10.09 18:15:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Turtle on 09/10/2003 18:16:48
This subject is getting so old.
First drones are used in combat. If you have taken part in any large fleet actions you would know this.
Second camping a jumpin point is a tactical move. Unlike camping a gate there is no 10sec immunity timer when camping a jumpin point. So it comes down to whether I can lockon faster than you can warp, mwd, etc. This gives me a chance to trap you. At a gate if you are paying attention I can never trap you, you have to much time to avoid it.
What I find real funny is what are you going to do when CCP puts in the ability for me to track you in warp and pull you out of it. This is coming I hope.
In the final analysis it is up to the person flying the ship to be aware of there surroundings. If you are to lazy to to check your route often, equip your ship to avoid or run traps then maybe you shouldn't be flying. I have yet to be caught by this tactic. It is just to easy to avoid.
P.S. I have died many time in group combat do to lag. This is somthing that does need to be address but not at the cost of not using drones.
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3MPR3SS
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Posted - 2003.10.09 20:29:00 -
[37]
its an exploit but oh well until it gets fixed there's nothing u can do about it easy way to get around it make an alt to scout the area and if your alt gets blown up oh well didnt lose anything. yes its not fair not being able to fight back but they will do it until it gets fixed. another exploit that needs to be dealt with is the insta-bookmarks im not a pirate myself but many pirates have these bookmarks also and u cant get them because of it. the bookmarks are not only used by non-pirates,imagine that pirates complaining about the bookmarks when half of them use them theirselves anyways without pirating i would quit the game cause there would be no excitement in game. so keep up the good job guys and keep us on our toes
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Arthur Eld
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Posted - 2003.10.09 20:55:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Arthur Eld on 09/10/2003 20:56:06
Quote:
Even though it's probably the lamest tactics around, I wouldn't blame the pirates for this exploit really - I think someone should have thought about this earlier.
...
It's an exploit that has to be stopped, the sooner the better, but I don't think whining helps, really. Just be careful and don't put yourself in that kind of situation until it's fixed. It's not as this thing hasn't been discussed earlier...
Quote:
It's people using drones. Nobody except CCP can offer any real evidence of what's happening. Nobody but the persons using the drones can say with certainty why the drones are there. Nobody but CCP can state with any authority that a person is exploiting or preparing himself to defend himself under these conditions.
The fact that the pirates are always used as the scapegoat while others who do it are cheered for attacking the nasty pirates is enough for me to not give a damn about whoever it's used by or against.
Until you can state with absolute certainty the number of drones necessary to cause a player jumping into a solar system to lag beyond the invulnerability period, your case has no merit. Until someone can say "x number of drones when used against a y brand computer with z ghz of cpu" you are only attempting to offer the worst opinion of the motives of people you do not like to begin with.
And interpreting the hidden motives of people in determining whether or not they are exploiting is not your domain. It's CCP's.
Jash, You should be a lawyer.
____________________
First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire. We deal in lead.
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Cruise
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Posted - 2003.10.09 21:20:00 -
[39]
It stikes me that we may be missing something crucial here: Biomass Cartel camped a jump-in point in large numbers for a reason. I believe part of that was to stir up SOME sort of outcry that PvP is becoming more and more about 'acceptable game mechanics' then about game play!
It almost seems like anyone who really WANTS to play out the Pirate part is restricted left and right of late:
Problem: 1.0 - 0.5 Empire Space is unsafe due to Pirates podding/pod killing newbs/easy targets.
Answer: Bring in Uber CONCORDE - Done.
Problem: Pirates camping gates (or stations) that jump (or dock) as soon as things get too hot for their liking.
Answer: Introduce hostility timers to block access - Done.
Problem: Pirates able to block gate access in 0.4 - 0.0 because of no CONCORDE.
Answer: Gate sentries at nearly every gate, including in 0.0 space - Done.
So now where are they supposed to go for what they came into this game for, namely PvP? They can't attack someone at a station, the sentries will take them down. Can't camp a gate anymore, the sentries there too will knock 'em out. Can't play in 1.0 - 0.5 because CONCORDE will put a world of hurt on them that spells overkill with a capital O.
The asteroid belts? Okay, let's say you're a player that's got SOME savvy to being in 0.4 - 0.0 sec space. You spot them in local and you've got your foldered bookmarks up on screen, ready to run. They DO warp in, and you're intelligently mining about 40km out from the warp-in point and now you've warped away. Scratch that, no effective hunting for them there, save for the few UNWARY dolts who don't have a clue or are unluckily afk for a coffee break.
Planets and moons? Sha, right. The only thing around those areas are secure cans to store loot or ore when there's no station nearby.
Jump in points? Heyyyy...now there's a spot to trap prey! Only no, because the way things are too many ships and drones in one spot lags gameplay into the dirt, and when people warp in the delay between when the Pirates see them and when they have control of thier ship is excessive.
So we have a quandry. On the one hand there's the lag induced and 'OMGOMG SPLOIT!' screams coming left and right. On the otherhand we have a bunch of players who are being slowly neutered by everything against a balance in PvP gameplay. It's too easy for the 'prey' to get away in almost any given situation and the game has too much against the Pirate player to make their end of the gaming field 'fair'.
I agree that if someone KNOWINGLY sits a jump in point and shoves a myriad of drones out there HOPING it's going to induce lag and give them undue advantage it's exploitive, but I can also see in a way they're trying like hell to make a point and maybe..just maybe..not end up in a game that looks more and more like a dead end bore for them.
Just my 2 cents.
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Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis ad capul tuum saxum immane mittam.
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Joanna Pearson
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Posted - 2003.10.09 21:23:00 -
[40]
This villification of drone users is just silly tbh.
Though drones do worsen the lag/rendering situation when people jump in; the real problem is that the hostiles are sitting there and using a flaw in the game mechanics to provide them with a huge (and often, Terminal) advantage over their victim.
Even if there's 3-4 ships at the jump-in point of a system (without drones) my poor 56k modem and low-end graphics card; (albeit hardware that meets the game's specifications) could very easily get me killed simply in the time it takes to render the surroundings.
If I was to lose a ship to this; I would consider it a clear-cut exploit of the game mechanics, and report the perpetrator without blinking.
And CCP needs to address this situation once and for all and put PvP back where it belongs; in areas where all parties can participate on a level playing field.
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Joanna Pearson
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Posted - 2003.10.09 21:28:00 -
[41]
Quote:
It almost seems like anyone who really WANTS to play out the Pirate part is restricted left and right of late:
I really don't see what the problem is here; there are no restrictions to where you can attack players outside of empire space.
Piracy inside empire space should be more difficult, (it's not impossible, ask Space Invaders) as it's exactly that.. EMPIRE space; and some measure of security (sentry guns) is to be expected.
Really though, you're off-topic .. the issue's not with piracy in particular, but with PvPers camping jump-in points in general.
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Cruise
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Posted - 2003.10.09 22:01:00 -
[42]
Quote:
Quote:
It almost seems like anyone who really WANTS to play out the Pirate part is restricted left and right of late:
I really don't see what the problem is here; there are no restrictions to where you can attack players outside of empire space.
Piracy inside empire space should be more difficult, (it's not impossible, ask Space Invaders) as it's exactly that.. EMPIRE space; and some measure of security (sentry guns) is to be expected.
Really though, you're off-topic .. the issue's not with piracy in particular, but with PvPers camping jump-in points in general.
I'm sorry if you think I'm off-topic, but if you had read ALL of my post you would have noted I was talking about the fact that maybe they ARE camping jump-in points because their areas of hunting prey is limited.
1.0 - 0.5 space is extremely prohibitive. They may get in to wreak some havoc but it is extremly tightly controlled and it is more than a bit rough for them to get back out once they DO initiate hostile actions. I'm not saying they can't do it, it's just a b*tch to try.
I was trying to say that in some respects it seems like gameplay changes to PvP have consistently gone against Pirating, forcing them to do little more than cat-and-dog chases or camping spots.
The lag issue is being addressed with a GTG system, so the jump-in problem should hopefully go away. Hopefully hardware changes and some tweaking of code at CCP's end will help reduce lag as well.
I was simply saying I can see both sides to the issue.
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Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis ad capul tuum saxum immane mittam.
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Joanna Pearson
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Posted - 2003.10.09 22:30:00 -
[43]
Quote:
I'm sorry if you think I'm off-topic, but if you had read ALL of my post you would have noted I was talking about the fact that maybe they ARE camping jump-in points because their areas of hunting prey is limited.
1.0 - 0.5 space is extremely prohibitive. They may get in to wreak some havoc but it is extremly tightly controlled and it is more than a bit rough for them to get back out once they DO initiate hostile actions. I'm not saying they can't do it, it's just a b*tch to try.
This thread; though aimed at pirates by the original poster; is based purely on the action of camping jump-in points. Jash Illian has (rightly) pointed out that camping jump-ins isn't the unique domain of pirates, ergo the "piracy is too hard" argument isn't relevant when the practice of jump-in camping isn't limited to pirates.
As an aside though; It is possible for a known pirate to get into "safe" space; successfully kill an innocent (not in a war) and escape back to 0.0 space; though hellaciously difficult, as you stated above.
That is exactly how it should be.
One would hardly expect Hannibal Lector to be able to walk into the London Ritz, casually bite someone's nose off and meander away without things getting "more than a bit rough" for him.
Quote:
I was trying to say that in some respects it seems like gameplay changes to PvP have consistently gone against Pirating, forcing them to do little more than cat-and-dog chases or camping spots.
Defending an exploit with the excuse: "it's too hard to chase people down" does not (by any measure) condone using that exploit.
Quote:
The lag issue is being addressed with a GTG system, so the jump-in problem should hopefully go away. Hopefully hardware changes and some tweaking of code at CCP's end will help reduce lag as well.
I hope so too; but until the situation is resolved, CCP needs to clarify their position on the issue.
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NeoMorph
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Posted - 2003.10.10 01:40:00 -
[44]
Well what I gather they ARE going to fix it so it doesnt lag you... and you appear when your client finally loads so both sides have an equal chance for once.
TomB has also said he is going to optimise the drone models so it will help some peoples machines too.
At that point the pirates can legitimatly have umpteen drones out as it will be a bloody good point in their favour and I for one will be looking forward to the better battles it will create.
Not all pirate laggers do it for lag but to give them the edge when the battles occur. But there are a great many who do it for the easy kills it creates.
EVE was supposed to be about combat in these circumstances... not about whose client loads first gets the advantage!
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<Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode
<Stavros> was a honda gold wing
<Ak-Gara> hah
<Stavros> |
Cormyat Astara
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Posted - 2003.10.10 02:05:00 -
[45]
Jump-in camping is an exploit, but I fully understand why pirates do it. I know from experience it is virtually impossible to force the issue in PvP...the devs have made it so if a player is even semi-intelligent, he can be completely immune to attack.
I think a lot of the complaints would go away with two changes: 1) Randomize jump-in points so camping one is fruitless. 2) Allow for the ability to warp to a ship on scanner, so players wouldn't be able to hide at mid-warp boomarks forever and ever.
To me, allowing a player to be immune to attack anywhere outside a station makes no sense.
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