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Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.10 11:27:00 - [1] ======================================================= Invention - A Next-Gen Research & Development Project Next step in Research & Development, utilizing Invention, players with the right tools, skills, items and knowledge can invent inefficient limited run blueprint-copies of Tech II items and ships. Some tidbits on Invention in Hammerheads dev blog. ======================================================= If you look under Patch Notes, and then check what is in Testing, there it is. Veteran Eve readers know that this means almost nothing as to when the "feature" will actually make it into game, other than to indicate it "might" (maybe...) make it in soon(TM). My prediction: Final, all expenses calculated in, Build Cost for a good "Invention" BPC will be about twice the cost (give or take a bit) of an unresearched BPO. The effect will be drop the price of the most highly priced T2 items, but to leave popular T2 with a healthy profit margin. No effect on unpopular items, as no one will bother using Invention on them. Then again, it could be years before we see Invention in game, if ever. Remember Comet mining??? snip This type of comment has no place in a signature, please remain courteous - Pirlouit
Laythun Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.08.10 11:29:00 - [2] no. Its so i can have a ship class called 'Laythun owns joo' based on the curse hull... *See You In Space Cowboy*
Mike Yagon Minmatar The Phoenix Legionaires	Posted - 2006.08.10 11:30:00 - [3] Well, it's been slated for Kali 1, so hopes are on September. ------ In Carebear We Trust
Kate Darieux Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.10 11:34:00 - [4] From what i read in the dev blog, it will come out in Kali 1. I wouldn't bet on it, though.
Wild Rho Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.08.10 11:45:00 - [5] Originally by: Laythun no. Its so i can have a ship class called 'Laythun owns joo' based on the curse hull... Maybe, but you still suck at bf2 WE ARE DYSLEXIC OF BORG. Refutance is systile. Your ass will be laminated. - Jennie Marlboro
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.10 12:35:00 - [6] My prediction is that invention will crash the prices of the top 3-10 overpriced T2 items, and considerably affect another 30-40. The vast majority won't even see a difference. --[23] Member-- Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
Mikal Drey Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.08.10 12:36:00 - [7] my prediction . . It will get nerfed in minutes of it hitting TQ. Because. . . 1400mm "uber tracker" autocannon. 200km ranged sniper torps Low slot shield boosters 90% all resist mods 50km web 50km 15strength scramblers siege launchers with 1mw & 1tf If invention is left to players and not structured eg. Baldurs Gate/RPG style item creation (+2 warp scram of incredible range) then i think that some players pure sneeky or ebil creativeness will cause havoc and the Dev's would have to step in. fyi : sisi isnt running any new khali features atm "in testing" generally means the the dev team are running their own crunching and munching on what looks like their own private server . . . . anyone see the new probe pics ?
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.10 12:43:00 - [8] Originally by: Mikal Drey my prediction . . It will get nerfed in minutes of it hitting TQ. Because. . . 1400mm "uber tracker" autocannon. 200km ranged sniper torps Low slot shield boosters 90% all resist mods 50km web 50km 15strength scramblers siege launchers with 1mw & 1tf If invention is left to players and not structured eg. Baldurs Gate/RPG style item creation (+2 warp scram of incredible range) then i think that some players pure sneeky or ebil creativeness will cause havoc and the Dev's would have to step in. fyi : sisi isnt running any new khali features atm "in testing" generally means the the dev team are running their own crunching and munching on what looks like their own private server . . . . anyone see the new probe pics ? Do you even know what invention is? It allows players to make T2 BPCs of current T2 items. Its not about making totally new "uber" items. --[23] Member-- Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
Wild Rho Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.08.10 13:32:00 - [9] Originally by: Dark Shikari My prediction is that invention will crash the prices of the top 3-10 overpriced T2 items, and considerably affect another 30-40. The vast majority won't even see a difference. Which is a good thing tbh as it creates a semi flexible supply to help match the shifting demands in the t2 market. It'll actually be interesting to see what effects this has in general when corps relying on the significant income from these particular high demand bpos finds their profits drop fairly rapidly. WE ARE DYSLEXIC OF BORG. Refutance is systile. Your ass will be laminated. - Jennie Marlboro
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.10 13:35:00 - [10] Originally by: Wild Rho Originally by: Dark Shikari My prediction is that invention will crash the prices of the top 3-10 overpriced T2 items, and considerably affect another 30-40. The vast majority won't even see a difference. Which is a good thing tbh as it creates a semi flexible supply to help match the shifting demands in the t2 market. Exactly. I proposed a similar solution many many months ago, and I'm guessing CCP thought it was a good idea. The best possible solution to the T2 problem is a small, flexible supply of T2 items that will automatically (through market forces) adapt to pull down the prices of the most overpriced T2 items. This ensures that there will never be a situation where supply of a particular T2 item is vastly less than demand. On the other hand, it doesn't crash the market either. --[23] Member-- Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.10 13:40:00 - [11] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Wild Rho Originally by: Dark Shikari My prediction is that invention will crash the prices of the top 3-10 overpriced T2 items, and considerably affect another 30-40. The vast majority won't even see a difference. Which is a good thing tbh as it creates a semi flexible supply to help match the shifting demands in the t2 market. Exactly. I proposed a similar solution many many months ago, and I'm guessing CCP thought it was a good idea. The best possible solution to the T2 problem is a small, flexible supply of T2 items that will automatically (through market forces) adapt to pull down the prices of the most overpriced T2 items. This ensures that there will never be a situation where supply of a particular T2 item is vastly less than demand. On the other hand, it doesn't crash the market either. Anyone have a good estimation on skill pre-requisites? Lets say I have all the required skills to build a Amarr HAC, what would I need to train to be able to "invent" one... Kind of stupid, they should just call it reverse engineering, as that's what it is... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
ArchenTheGreat Caldari Yesodic Nomads Corp Triumvirate.	Posted - 2006.08.10 13:42:00 - [12] Good thing to know would be skill requirements for invention. I bet some of the skills will be introduced with Kali but I think some old ones will be required too.
Verizana The Kru Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2006.08.10 13:44:00 - [13] Originally by: Mikal Drey my prediction . . It will get nerfed in minutes of it hitting TQ. Because. . . 1400mm "uber tracker" autocannon. 200km ranged sniper torps Low slot shield boosters 90% all resist mods 50km web 50km 15strength scramblers siege launchers with 1mw & 1tf If invention is left to players and not structured eg. Baldurs Gate/RPG style item creation (+2 warp scram of incredible range) then i think that some players pure sneeky or ebil creativeness will cause havoc and the Dev's would have to step in. fyi : sisi isnt running any new khali features atm "in testing" generally means the the dev team are running their own crunching and munching on what looks like their own private server . . . . anyone see the new probe pics ? duh..
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.10 13:44:00 - [14] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Wild Rho Originally by: Dark Shikari My prediction is that invention will crash the prices of the top 3-10 overpriced T2 items, and considerably affect another 30-40. The vast majority won't even see a difference. Which is a good thing tbh as it creates a semi flexible supply to help match the shifting demands in the t2 market. Exactly. I proposed a similar solution many many months ago, and I'm guessing CCP thought it was a good idea. The best possible solution to the T2 problem is a small, flexible supply of T2 items that will automatically (through market forces) adapt to pull down the prices of the most overpriced T2 items. This ensures that there will never be a situation where supply of a particular T2 item is vastly less than demand. On the other hand, it doesn't crash the market either. Anyone have a good estimation on skill pre-requisites? Lets say I have all the required skills to build a Amarr HAC, what would I need to train to be able to "invent" one... Kind of stupid, they should just call it reverse engineering, as that's what it is... No, its not. You're taking data cores and a tech 1 BPC and making it into a tech 2 BPC. You're not "using up" or even "analyzing" any T2 item to do so. --[23] Member-- Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
fuze Gallente Chosen Path Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.08.10 13:58:00 - [15] So invention = reverse engineering. Different name but stil requires a new skill. The name is stupid though. Invention means creating something new and this is just copying something that is already there. Invention could be that e.g. you mix up a faction module and a t2 module and you create a new t2 faction module from it destroying both. Then again it's nice because we've been waiting for this one for ages.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.10 13:59:00 - [16] Originally by: fuze So invention = reverse engineering. But you're not taking any T2 item and getting anything from it, so, no its not. The entire process, as far as we know, does not involve T2 items at all. --[23] Member-- Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.10 14:01:00 - [17] Edited by: Bhaal on 10/08/2006 14:02:00 Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Wild Rho Originally by: Dark Shikari My prediction is that invention will crash the prices of the top 3-10 overpriced T2 items, and considerably affect another 30-40. The vast majority won't even see a difference. Which is a good thing tbh as it creates a semi flexible supply to help match the shifting demands in the t2 market. Exactly. I proposed a similar solution many many months ago, and I'm guessing CCP thought it was a good idea. The best possible solution to the T2 problem is a small, flexible supply of T2 items that will automatically (through market forces) adapt to pull down the prices of the most overpriced T2 items. This ensures that there will never be a situation where supply of a particular T2 item is vastly less than demand. On the other hand, it doesn't crash the market either. Anyone have a good estimation on skill pre-requisites? Lets say I have all the required skills to build a Amarr HAC, what would I need to train to be able to "invent" one... Kind of stupid, they should just call it reverse engineering, as that's what it is... No, its not. You're taking data cores and a tech 1 BPC and making it into a tech 2 BPC. You're not "using up" or even "analyzing" any T2 item to do so. If the items came out with different bonuses etc, I'd say yes. But if the HAC I build is the same exact ship as the BPO holder builds, then I say no... End product should be based on the skill of the Inventor, and no Inventor should be able to build a HAC as good as the BPO holder can... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.10 14:04:00 - [18] Originally by: Bhaal If the items came out with different bonuses etc, I'd say yes. But if the HAC I build is the same exact ship as the BPO holder builds, then I say no... End product should be based on the skill of the Inventor, and no Inventor should be able to build a HAC as good as the BPO holder can... Wouldn't that eliminate the whole point? The point of invention is to add extra supply to the T2 economy as is needed so that CCP doesn't have to micromanage the number of BPOs in the game. --[23] Member-- Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
Wild Rho Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2006.08.10 14:07:00 - [19] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Bhaal If the items came out with different bonuses etc, I'd say yes. But if the HAC I build is the same exact ship as the BPO holder builds, then I say no... End product should be based on the skill of the Inventor, and no Inventor should be able to build a HAC as good as the BPO holder can... Wouldn't that eliminate the whole point? The point of invention is to add extra supply to the T2 economy as is needed so that CCP doesn't have to micromanage the number of BPOs in the game. And lets face it, if the demand and prices are high enough people will produce the items to fill that demand. If an item is over supplied it's just not worth the extra cost to produce it via invention and so the supplies won't be flooded. Overall it's a very good system. WE ARE DYSLEXIC OF BORG. Refutance is systile. Your ass will be laminated. - Jennie Marlboro
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.10 14:09:00 - [20] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Bhaal If the items came out with different bonuses etc, I'd say yes. But if the HAC I build is the same exact ship as the BPO holder builds, then I say no... End product should be based on the skill of the Inventor, and no Inventor should be able to build a HAC as good as the BPO holder can... Wouldn't that eliminate the whole point? The point of invention is to add extra supply to the T2 economy as is needed so that CCP doesn't have to micromanage the number of BPOs in the game. Not really, as a consumer I'd settle for a HAC with a few % less resists for 50mill less, etc... This in itself would inherently lower the price of the top of the line models... As overall demand for "HACS" would go down. Only those with the ISK for the top of the line models would be buying them... We're talking minor differences here, not drastic bonus changes, etc... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
loony zoon	Posted - 2006.08.10 14:13:00 - [21] The new blog suggests to me that invention is for 'rigs', no mention of invention affecting other t2 production. I may just be reading it wrong.
BoinaAzul	Posted - 2006.08.10 14:15:00 - [22] If this ends the 100 times profit of the Cap Recharger II into something more reasonable then I'm all for it. In my humble opinion (and I understand almost no one agrees to me) when you have a blueprint that allows you to make such a ridiculous profit (like the Cap Recharger II) your getting near the concept of "exploit".
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.10 14:15:00 - [23] Originally by: loony zoon The new blog suggests to me that invention is for 'rigs', no mention of invention affecting other t2 production. I may just be reading it wrong. Read the old blog about invention. --[23] Member-- Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
Vadarr Mann	Posted - 2006.08.10 14:27:00 - [24] Originally by: BoinaAzul If this ends the 100 times profit of the Cap Recharger II into something more reasonable then I'm all for it. In my humble opinion (and I understand almost no one agrees to me) when you have a blueprint that allows you to make such a ridiculous profit (like the Cap Recharger II) your getting near the concept of "exploit". oh, cap recharger 2 will be the first bpc everyone goes to invent.
Evil Sulu Sanguine Legion Atrocitas	Posted - 2006.08.10 14:40:00 - [25] Originally by: Mikal Drey my prediction . . It will get nerfed in minutes of it hitting TQ. Because. . . 1400mm "uber tracker" autocannon. 200km ranged sniper torps Low slot shield boosters 90% all resist mods 50km web 50km 15strength scramblers siege launchers with 1mw & 1tf If invention is left to players and not structured eg. Baldurs Gate/RPG style item creation (+2 warp scram of incredible range) then i think that some players pure sneeky or ebil creativeness will cause havoc and the Dev's would have to step in. fyi : sisi isnt running any new khali features atm "in testing" generally means the the dev team are running their own crunching and munching on what looks like their own private server . . . . anyone see the new probe pics ? Quick, somebody get this man some more lemons! ------------- Public channel #KhanidBlood
thetwilitehour Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2006.08.10 14:57:00 - [26] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: fuze So invention = reverse engineering. But you're not taking any T2 item and getting anything from it, so, no its not. The entire process, as far as we know, does not involve T2 items at all. You are incorrect. The term reverse engineering does not necessarily mean that you take a given device and rip it apart in order to make an analog of it. Analysis of the function structure and operation of a given device, say for example certain annoying blue robots that bounce around, could take place merely by first observing their mechanical properties and programming abilities and then attempting to identify what components could comprise said robots. Admittedly usually reverse engineering is associated with literally taking something apart in order to discover what it does, but it can also mean merely figuring out what something is from what it does. So I think reverse engineering would be a more appropriate name than invention. You could also call it patent infringement, or industrial espionage.
Bhaal Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.08.10 15:03:00 - [27] Quote: So I think reverse engineering would be a more appropriate name than invention. You could also call it patent infringement, or industrial espionage. Yep. To me, "Invention" means discovering something new, never seen before... =Invention, not reverse engineering... Maybe I'm biased, as many Western based engineers see our work copied by my Asian "designers" all the time, so it's a sticky subject for me... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
Mervent Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.10 16:34:00 - [28] From the Dev Blog: Quote: ThatÆs when you take a T1 BPC, some Datacores, a Data Interface and some optional stuff like tech 1 items and Decryptors then mix it all up and hope that they output a tech 2 BPC. Define hope? I really HOPE that its not like the current BPO lottery system where you run agent missions and HOPE to get a bpo offer.
FFGR Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.08.10 17:04:00 - [29] Originally by: Mervent From the Dev Blog: Quote: ThatÆs when you take a T1 BPC, some Datacores, a Data Interface and some optional stuff like tech 1 items and Decryptors then mix it all up and hope that they output a tech 2 BPC. Define hope? I really HOPE that its not like the current BPO lottery system where you run agent missions and HOPE to get a bpo offer. % chance after a set ammount of time ? _____________________________ siggys v. 0.5
Andros vonBek Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2006.08.10 18:32:00 - [30] Put a Caracal BPO and some RDbs and some miscellaneous sensor/shield resistance upgrades, along with bits and pieces of T2 components, and put it in a Horadric Cube along with Wirt's Leg? (Sorry, I'm spaced out on cough medecine/sweets, this was the first thing into my head)

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