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murder one
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2006.08.10 13:24:00 -
[1]
5x Heavy Assault Rocket launchers (T2?)
AB/Scram/2x T2 large extenders, 1x T2 Invuln. field.
2x BCUs lows.
Gank Rax killer anyone? 15km range, nos proof, decent tank, huge DPS, variable damage type, no tracking. Did I mention nos proof? No missing? 15km range? It's like a bad dream.
Oh right, it gets worse: Same deal but w/ a Ferox.
Oh wait, worse again: Tier2 BC (Drake) with EIGHT launcher slots. Even if players only manage to fit 80-90% of this with decent fitting skills (adv. weap. upgrades to 4) it's going to be insane.
The one thing the Brutix/Rax have over the Caracal/Ferox is their raw DPS when compared to missile boats. Ferox can have a HUGE passive tank, but it's DPS is kinda weak. Not anymore. And this concept can be applied to the Caracal/Drake quite easily. W/ BS sized ships the concept of passive tanks doesn't work due to no availability of oversized (comparatively) shield extenders etc. But for the cruisers/BCs, it's gonna be killer. Literally.
Even if you have to use a few fitting mods, or just sacrifice your *really* heavy tank for a slightly lesser one, the DPS will be such that it will put the ships tank/gank ratio far ahead of the current setups. Far enough to screw the other three races.
Because I said so...
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Waxau
Liberty Rogues
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2006.08.10 13:35:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Waxau on 10/08/2006 13:37:19
Can i point out to all players this:
With all newly implemented ideas/modifications to the game, there have always been changes after theyve been released.
Stop trying to predict how uber it'll be. If its too uber, it'll get nerfed. Its in effect the cycle of life. Theres no point saying how uber something is, when once its released, it'll be changed.
The whole bad side of these forums are the constant incessant whining that takes place when a player thinks their eve is coming to and end. But let me ask you this:
CCP is a company. We are its income. Why would they dissatisfy their customers when their profit is at stake?
in short: It'll not be Uber for long, as if it is when its released, and it is uber, it'll be balanced down.
<EDIT> but to stay on topic...yeah - looking forward to my nighthawk. Oh wait...its a slow lump of ****. Im having to buy a DG scrambler just to be able to scramble targets. damn BC and caldari mass lol.
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes |
inSpirAcy
Caldari
The Solopwnmobiles
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Posted - 2006.08.10 13:43:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: murder one
Gank Rax killer anyone? 15km range, nos proof, decent tank, huge DPS, variable damage type, no tracking.
You can already get a 15km range, nos proof, decent tank and variable damage type with a Rupture.
Huge DPS is speculation and there's nothing to suggest a Caracal will be able to fit five assault launchers without gimping its tank. Give them similar fitting problems that Neutrons give to the 'rax (or perhaps a little less - Neuts are an absolute pain to fit).
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.08.10 13:44:00 -
[4]
Ganking? Hardly. IIRC a maxed out caracal, all T2 max skills, does 230 DPS.
Add +25% for assault missiles or whatever, and you get 280-290. Not sloppy, but then run those same numbers on a blasterrax some time (don't forget the drones)
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The Wizz117
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Posted - 2006.08.10 13:44:00 -
[5]
if u like the ship so much why dont u keep it for urself and start using it.
-------------------------------------------
That ccp created a universe doesen't mean they'r gods
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Serj Darek
Minmatar
Mentally Unstable Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.08.10 13:49:00 -
[6]
The fitting requirement haven't been released yet, so it's kind of hard to speculate?
Originally by: Tuxford
I love how you guys can take stats from a test server that is few months out of date and then panic over them.
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Griff Skyshock
Caldari
Eve Defence Force
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.10 13:50:00 -
[7]
Where is this news about assault rockets. |
Twilight Moon
Minmatar
eXceed Inc.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.10 13:51:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Twilight Moon on 10/08/2006 13:51:51
...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative.
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Triest
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2006.08.10 13:51:00 -
[9]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Ganking? Hardly. IIRC a maxed out caracal, all T2 max skills, does 230 DPS.
Add +25% for assault missiles or whatever, and you get 280-290. Not sloppy, but then run those same numbers on a blasterrax some time (don't forget the drones)
I think the idea is that it'll be able to hit from 15 km and fit a (potentially) heavy tank, in addition to having high DPS and no tracking issues. We'll see what happens, I guess.
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Disco Flint
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.10 14:30:00 -
[10]
Originally by: murder one
5x Heavy Assault Rocket launchers (T2?)
AB/Scram/2x T2 large extenders, 1x T2 Invuln. field.
2x BCUs lows.
will not fit. never ever. even with only T2 Heavy Missile Launchers which will use less PG than the upcoming Assault launchers, I can't fit 2 Large Shield Extenders II. With Eng5, Elec5, WU and AWU5.
Originally by: murder one
Gank Rax killer anyone? 15km range, nos proof, decent tank, huge DPS, variable damage type, no tracking. Did I mention nos proof? No missing? 15km range? It's like a bad dream.
- vary damage type to anything but kinetic: -25% damage
- it can't fit a decent tank, not without sacrificing its Lows for fitting mods -> much less gank
- ya know, there are some other "NOS-PROOF!!!" ships out there, especially since projectiles dont use cap anymore it's pretty viable to passiv tank them Minnie ships
Originally by: murder one
Oh right, it gets worse: Same deal but w/ a Ferox.
Ahahahaha riiiight, because the Ferox is such a threat to the other BCs out there. But even tank-wise the Ferox will have to cut back if it is to field Assault Launchers. Also, I wouldn't want to see, much less fly a Ferox trying to limp into range.
Originally by: murder one
Oh wait, worse again: Tier2 BC (Drake) with EIGHT launcher slots. Even if players only manage to fit 80-90% of this with decent fitting skills (adv. weap. upgrades to 4) it's going to be insane.
SEVEN launcher slots is current, but of course not certain and subject to change, info.
Tier2 battlecruisers will also have a pretty pathetic tank compared to their Tier1 counterparts. Not to mention that the Drake will at MOST get the PG of the Ferox, but more likely 800'ish like the Nighthawk -> further gimped tank
Originally by: murder one
The one thing the Brutix/Rax have over the Caracal/Ferox is their raw DPS when compared to missile boats. Ferox can have a HUGE passive tank, but it's DPS is kinda weak. Not anymore.
With only 5 Heavy Missile Launchers II the Ferox does ~180dps with good skills and 2 BCU II. +25% = 225 dps.
Awesomeness, that will be so the killer.
Originally by: murder one
And this concept can be applied to the Caracal/Drake quite easily.
Yep, Caracal base DPS with KINETIC missiles and 2 BCU II: 225; +25% = 281.25 DPS. Infuriatinig, to think I only have to completly give up tanking to achieve HALF the dps a Thorax can do, truly overpowered.
Originally by: murder one
W/ BS sized ships the concept of passive tanks doesn't work due to no availability of oversized (comparatively) shield extenders etc. But for the cruisers/BCs, it's gonna be killer. Literally.
I fail to see how battleships all of a sudden show up in your equation, as they have no real use for Assault missiles (cept for a PG cheap whateverthehell should I put in my last highslot) and can passive tank as well.
Ever heard of a passiv shield tanked Domi? Yeah, learn about passiv tanks before you whine about them. I can only forward you to Pottsey's guide to passiv shield tanking
Originally by: murder one
Even if you have to use a few fitting mods, or just sacrifice your *really* heavy tank for a slightly lesser one, the DPS will be such that it will put the ships tank/gank ratio far ahead of the current setups. Far enough to screw the other three races.
A "few" fitting mods DO screw the Caracal's gankability, the higher PG requirements will kill its "really heavy tank". Lol. Are you impressed of your paper towel's tank after sneezing into it? No? Yeah, that's about 'Caracal-tankability'.
The Ferox on the other hand will lose her ability to field a true passiv shield tank because of the higher PG reqs, for an amazing 25% extra. Those 25% extra equal 45dps. That's not taking into accaunt that the Ferox is NOT built to get into ANY range, it's the slowest and least agile of the BCs, even 15kms are not easily reached when you're as fast as a mammoth.
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Hugh Ruka
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.10 14:39:00 -
[11]
Originally by: murder one
5x Heavy Assault Rocket launchers (T2?)
AB/Scram/2x T2 large extenders, 1x T2 Invuln. field.
2x BCUs lows.
Gank Rax killer anyone? 15km range, nos proof, decent tank, huge DPS, variable damage type, no tracking. Did I mention nos proof? No missing? 15km range? It's like a bad dream.
Oh right, it gets worse: Same deal but w/ a Ferox.
Oh wait, worse again: Tier2 BC (Drake) with EIGHT launcher slots. Even if players only manage to fit 80-90% of this with decent fitting skills (adv. weap. upgrades to 4) it's going to be insane.
The one thing the Brutix/Rax have over the Caracal/Ferox is their raw DPS when compared to missile boats. Ferox can have a HUGE passive tank, but it's DPS is kinda weak. Not anymore. And this concept can be applied to the Caracal/Drake quite easily. W/ BS sized ships the concept of passive tanks doesn't work due to no availability of oversized (comparatively) shield extenders etc. But for the cruisers/BCs, it's gonna be killer. Literally.
Even if you have to use a few fitting mods, or just sacrifice your *really* heavy tank for a slightly lesser one, the DPS will be such that it will put the ships tank/gank ratio far ahead of the current setups. Far enough to screw the other three races.
I think it was stated by Tux that assult rocket launchers will take more grid than heavy missile launchers (like cruise vs siege), so you will have no grid to fit that.
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at least fit ECCM before you start crying how overpowered ECM is. |
Jerick Ludhowe
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
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Posted - 2006.08.10 15:41:00 -
[12]
I'm hoping assault missles will actually do less damage to an un painted cruiser than heavies however will inturn do a reasonably larger amount of damage against BCs and BSs than heavies do at the moment.
Comparing a 300 dps gank caracal to a 500 dps gank rax is rather silly imo. In real combat the caracal will do more dps than a rax in almost all situations. For a rax to atain 500 dps it would need to use void ammo forcing it to about the 1km range mark, also to use void effectivly against another cruiser you are almost forced to stop your ship. For these reasons I do not think that a capless/trackingless weapon system should ever come close to the dps of blasters or lasers against ships in the same class. However as I stated above I have 100% no problem with assault missles doing comparable dps against larger targets as that is what the mid range missles systems are lacking at the moment.
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xeom
Obsidian Sins
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Posted - 2006.08.10 15:50:00 -
[13]
I can't remeber the last time i had a fight with caracal and it was anything resembling hard or intresting.Hopefully this will spice up things.
CCP where are our t2 shield power relays? | Join[..SIN] |
Ozzie Asrail
Hybrid Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.08.10 16:05:00 -
[14]
Since Tux said that assault launchers will use more grid than heavies I highly doubt you'll be seeing much of a tank on a caracal and even a ferox will strugle. I reckon we'll be looking at at least 200mw per launcher.
Add that to the fact that the caracal has a gimpy cap and is slow as hell.
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Agnar Koladrov
Gallente
Hurricane Corporation
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Posted - 2006.08.10 16:17:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ozzie Asrail
Since Tux said that assault launchers will use more grid than heavies I highly doubt you'll be seeing much of a tank on a caracal and even a ferox will strugle. I reckon we'll be looking at at least 200mw per launcher.
Add that to the fact that the caracal has a gimpy cap and is slow as hell.
Ok so the new Assault Launchers will replace the current onces?
So CCP is going to screw-over Minmatar ships bigtime with this decision, unless he keep the current assault launchers as 'Light' Assault Launchers. If not a whole lot of ships useing the current assaults as a secondary weapon system will be screwed.
________________________________________________
Bring The Stabber in line with the other two versions. Add a fourth low. |
PirateShampoo
Eve Defence Force
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.10 16:26:00 -
[16]
LOL i wont b going within 30 km of these ships in a vagabond or any other minmatar cruiser/frig, its all so ghay. Nerf Missiles..
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Lucian Corvinus
Gallente
Expert Systems
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Posted - 2006.08.10 16:40:00 -
[17]
Originally by: murder one
Even if you have to use a few fitting mods, or just sacrifice your *really* heavy tank for a slightly lesser one, the DPS will be such that it will put the ships tank/gank ratio far ahead of the current setups. Far enough to screw the other three races.
Ohhh enlightened one please fill us in on the DPS of this setup, cause you seem to know ALOT more of these missiles than even the devs, and yes with it's mighty speed and tank it will crush EVERY other ship in eve, it is tah DOOMSDAY
Why don't you wait with your crying until we actually have some facts about these missiles.. nub
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.08.10 16:48:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Agnar Koladrov
Originally by: Ozzie Asrail
Since Tux said that assault launchers will use more grid than heavies I highly doubt you'll be seeing much of a tank on a caracal and even a ferox will strugle. I reckon we'll be looking at at least 200mw per launcher.
Add that to the fact that the caracal has a gimpy cap and is slow as hell.
Ok so the new Assault Launchers will replace the current onces?
So CCP is going to screw-over Minmatar ships bigtime with this decision, unless he keep the current assault launchers as 'Light' Assault Launchers. If not a whole lot of ships useing the current assaults as a secondary weapon system will be screwed.
It would not be the first time that happens.
--*=*=*--
Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment. |
Rexthor Hammerfists
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.10 16:49:00 -
[19]
this is a pre whinage thread?
welcome to 2006.
why dont u just wait til their on the testserver?
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Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
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inSpirAcy
Caldari
The Solopwnmobiles
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Posted - 2006.08.10 16:59:00 -
[20]
Far as I recall Tux was going to create a new launcher for assault rockets, not re-use the existing assault launcher.
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Agnar Koladrov
Gallente
Hurricane Corporation
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Posted - 2006.08.10 17:01:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Agnar Koladrov on 10/08/2006 17:01:47
Originally by: Tachy
Originally by: Agnar Koladrov
Originally by: Ozzie Asrail
Since Tux said that assault launchers will use more grid than heavies I highly doubt you'll be seeing much of a tank on a caracal and even a ferox will strugle. I reckon we'll be looking at at least 200mw per launcher.
Add that to the fact that the caracal has a gimpy cap and is slow as hell.
Ok so the new Assault Launchers will replace the current onces?
So CCP is going to screw-over Minmatar ships bigtime with this decision, unless he keep the current assault launchers as 'Light' Assault Launchers. If not a whole lot of ships useing the current assaults as a secondary weapon system will be screwed.
It would not be the first time that happens.
Would be a shame.
But Tux should see that then there would be a gap in cruiser sided launchers when this goes through. (pg low to high) Nothing - heavy launcher - assault launcher.
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
why dont u just wait til their on the testserver?
Because, by what I have seen before, by that time it is already too late.
Lets hope inSpirAcy is right though 
________________________________________________
Bring The Stabber in line with the other two versions. Add a fourth low. |
Benglada
Central Defiance
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Posted - 2006.08.10 17:37:00 -
[22]
might make the ferox worth a **** offensively though
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Originally by: Wrangler
Unfrtinately you dnot get to vote.. 
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Shreven Bulks
Meridian Arms Research Combine
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Posted - 2006.08.10 18:10:00 -
[23]
Originally by: inSpirAcy
Far as I recall Tux was going to create a new launcher for assault rockets, not re-use the existing assault launcher.
Which is a genius idea. Let's leave the frig pwnage launcher in so the cerb can continue to outclass every intended anti-frig platform in the game from 90km away.
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Tachy
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Posted - 2006.08.10 18:18:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Agnar Koladrov
[...]
Tux didn't talk about new launchers in the open.
On the other hand, he might actually be forced to have to work on some Minmatar ships instead of posting that he'll have a look at them.
Scythe, Bellicose, Breacher, Stabber, Vigil come to my mind instantly. *eg*
--*=*=*--
Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment. |
Valea Silpha
Cereal Killerz
Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.08.10 18:18:00 -
[25]
The issue with new assault missiles are on the cerberus (due to double range bonus).
On the caracal im not too worried, just because if it has HIGH fittings, it'll nail any passive tank ideas. The new BC does cause me a little concern with 7 launcher points with new high damage missiles. Hopefully it'll have a sub-par tank to compensate. Or be laughably slow.
I would be upset if the new missiles do more damage to MWDing ships of similar sizes, because it'll make attacking one in a close range ship difficult.
<Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing
<Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head |
inSpirAcy
Caldari
The Solopwnmobiles
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Posted - 2006.08.10 18:33:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Tachy
Tux didn't talk about new launchers in the open.
He sure did.
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Agnar Koladrov
Gallente
Hurricane Corporation
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Posted - 2006.08.10 18:53:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Tachy
Scythe, Bellicose, Breacher, Stabber, Vigil come to my mind instantly. *eg*
So to keep it simple, every Minmatar tec1 and 2 cruiser (plus maybe the Cyclone)
________________________________________________
Bring The Stabber in line with the other two versions. Add a fourth low. |
Tachy
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Posted - 2006.08.10 19:05:00 -
[28]
Originally by: inSpirAcy
Originally by: Tachy
Tux didn't talk about new launchers in the open.
He sure did.
Wow, must have missed his post there.
He had an interesting insight about 2xrange and 2xdamage bonus on a missile ship 
Strange that a certain gunboat seems to get a similar bonus. There is hope.
--*=*=*--
Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment. |
Master OlavPancrazio
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Posted - 2006.08.10 19:29:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Master OlavPancrazio on 10/08/2006 19:29:09
Assault rockets will cause the sky to crash and everyone's p3nis to fall off.
If you consider yourself one who believes the above, please stop posting in this forum because frankly you are a waste of all our trolling time.
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Testicular Testes
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Posted - 2006.08.10 19:36:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Tachy
Originally by: inSpirAcy
Originally by: Tachy
Tux didn't talk about new launchers in the open.
He sure did.
Wow, must have missed his post there.
He had an interesting insight about 2xrange and 2xdamage bonus on a missile ship
Strange that a certain gunboat seems to get a similar bonus. There is hope.
You're forgetting a 25% speedbonus here 
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