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chrisss0r
No.Mercy Merciless.
3
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Posted - 2011.11.25 14:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
Since CCP has devoted their time to fixing alot of things have been very annoying and bad in the last years. I think it is time that they also look at one of the most stupid decisions they have probably made.
Except DPS they make no sacrifice. People can tackle, scout and tank with these ships at the same time.
In travel they are practically invulnerable. With an insta-safes they will get out of every single station, even in 0.0. If you happen to actually tackle on at a station the ******** ehp will let him easily redock (if they happen to undock at a bad angle on kickouts they can ctrl-space and redock).
To actually catch one on a gate you need a good hour of setting up can (which will be petioned). You need enough DPS and effective tackle so they do not make it back to the gate.
Despite the scanning changes they can still sit around being practically unscannable, in some cases even run missions or plexes while being totally immune.
It takes almost no effort to fly these ships through any space.
Especially the Tengu is just totally overpwoered. Not taking its PvE abilities into account its agility allows it to even warp out if it randomly happens to get decloaked.
I think its time that this issue gets addressed. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1652
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Posted - 2011.11.25 14:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
chrisss0r wrote:Except DPS they make no sacrifice. GǪso except for a huge sacrifice (not to mention the other huge sacrifice, because no, a cloaky nullified, not-quite-unprobable ship can't tank), they don't sacrifice anything?
Got it.
GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
141
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Posted - 2011.11.25 14:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tippia wrote:chrisss0r wrote:Except DPS they make no sacrifice. GǪso except for a huge sacrifice (not to mention the other huge sacrifice, because no, a cloaky nullified, not-quite-unprobable ship can't tank), they don't sacrifice anything? Got it.
5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!-á If You Like My Sig, Like Me! |
chrisss0r
No.Mercy Merciless.
3
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Posted - 2011.11.25 15:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tippia wrote:chrisss0r wrote:Except DPS they make no sacrifice. GǪso except for a huge sacrifice (not to mention the other huge sacrifice, because no, a cloaky nullified, not-quite-unprobable ship can't tank), they don't sacrifice anything? Got it.
because dps is all that counts, right? Hate to break it to you but almost every fight is decided by the support, not the dps ships. Especially with the gang links they can decide big fleet fights pretty much on their own.
And yes they can tank enough to run any level 4 or sanctum so who needs more tank than that for ninja missioning/ratting/botting
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1652
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Posted - 2011.11.25 15:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
chrisss0r wrote:because dps is all that counts, right? No, tank also counts, but such a ship won't have any tank because they will not have the slots for it GÇö even less so if they're also supposed to provide fleet bonuses.
Quote:And yes they can tank enough to run any level 4 or sanctum Oh, you mean those tanks that fall apart instantly if something actually threatening shoots at them? GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
chrisss0r
No.Mercy Merciless.
3
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Posted - 2011.11.25 15:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tippia wrote:chrisss0r wrote:because dps is all that counts, right? No, tank also counts, but such a ship won't have any tank because they will not have the slots for it GÇö even less so if they're also supposed to provide fleet bonuses. Quote:And yes they can tank enough to run any level 4 or sanctum Oh, you mean those tanks that fall apart instantly if something actually threatening shoots at them?
why would a ship sitting in a safe providing bonusses need tank?
in case people use their t3 for botting/missioning/ratting they can easily fit enough tank to do that. it's not like they ever get in a situation where anyone can actually shoot at them because the pilot needs to be braindead to be caught |
Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
223
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Posted - 2011.11.25 15:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
chrisss0r wrote:Whine & butthurt
U MAD BRO? |
Ayanaya
Apple Industries Inc. Surely You're Joking
0
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Posted - 2011.11.25 16:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
No. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
1652
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Posted - 2011.11.25 16:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
chrisss0r wrote:why would a ship sitting in a safe providing bonusses need tank? To survive when it's probed down and shot at.
Quote: in case people use their t3 for botting/missioning/ratting they can easily fit enough tank to do that. GǪand that still makes them easy to kill and pretty much completely unthreatening to anyone.
You said that GÇ£its [sic] time this issue gets addressed" GÇö I don't quite see the issue. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
souhyeahright
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.11.25 16:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Get a virtue set and probe them down if they bother you that much. |
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Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
224
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Posted - 2011.11.25 17:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tippia wrote:chrisss0r wrote:why would a ship sitting in a safe providing bonusses need tank? To survive when it's probed down and shot at. Quote: in case people use their t3 for botting/missioning/ratting they can easily fit enough tank to do that. GǪand that still makes them easy to kill and pretty much completely unthreatening to anyone. You said that GÇ£its [sic] time this issue gets addressed" GÇö I don't quite see the issue.
Silly question. The issue is that he's not getting free kms. Such is the thought process of fresh pubbie from single player games. It should be easy to win in pvp. After all, everyone else exist for their enjoyment. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
266
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Posted - 2011.11.25 21:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
It's not because they're nullified they're imune to TARGETED warp disruption.
I still can't unerstand why U so mad about this, almost 1B ship requiring a lot of lvl5's to e effective adn you'd like it to pop under your guns like frigs....
Cry me a river. You can get them, it's very hard yes but you can.
Cloaky stuff no matter if it's a cloaky tengu/proteus/legion/loki T1 FRIGATE BS or even Titan will always ruin your anom site until crucible, kill all mobs and it will respawn somewhere else.
You don't want to take risks when someone else is in the system? -change for another system, pick some friends and trap it.
The only ones I see really bored about this is bot dudes so the excuse about cloaky tengus or wtf else it's just a terrible excuse to feel safe boting. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
2333
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Posted - 2011.11.25 21:47:00 -
[13] - Quote
chrisss0r wrote:Except DPS they make no sacrifice.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Salo Aldeland
Luma Operations
2
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Posted - 2011.11.26 18:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
Why does it even matter if you can't kill some guy who's just ratting or doing missions? Is it really that upsetting that you can't ruin somebody's day? If it takes a billion ISK ship and half a year in skills just to play the game without having to deal with mentally disturbed **** heads, so be it. |
Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
29
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Posted - 2011.11.26 18:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
And still T3s die every day, i wonder why. |
SpaceSquirrels
14
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Posted - 2011.11.26 19:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
Any armored ship will sacrifice both tank and DPS. (or their E war spot which is also a trade) Tengu I suppose not, but to up the tank or DPS going to have to blow a lot of ISK to close the gap. I could argue any ship fitting 500million to a billion worth of mods is going to be hard to kill. |
Angsty Teenager
Derpotle
4
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Posted - 2011.11.26 19:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
Chriss0r, you're doing it wrong.
I have no problem killing cloaky, nullified, unscannable T3's and I live right next to you. T3's are not overpowered in this configuration in any respect. If you choose to run cloaky and nullified, you lose over half your dps, even more if you actually want to fit pvp mids. If you fit unscannable, you are wasting 3 mid slots to do so, and you can still be scanned down, just buy some virtue implants.
The reason I don't care about cloaky T3's running missions is becuase they don't make **** for isk since they do missions slowly. The missions where they can finish it fast enough to make it worth it are just as easily doable in a frigate like a dramiel so there is no risk either way, and with the T3 you're just risking 400 more mil.
It honestly seems like you are complaining because there is no easy to way to say "I have 10 guys here that can camp, so I should be able to catch everything that undocks or jumps gate." I see no reason to complain about T3's in a fleet fight, any cloaky/nullified fits are useless in the battle, and even if there are unscannable fleet boosts for the enemy fleet, they take barely any time to train for, just get your own.
T3's fit out to be hard to catch are supposed to be hard to catch, especially if they're piloted by non-idiots.
EDIT:
Quote:
- They don't sacrifice any multiplier role for their ability to escape/evade everything. A cloaky nullified ship does not sacrifice ability to probe, it does not lose any ability to tank rats and it does not lose any ability to boost their gang. And if you think sacrificing dps is the only thing that counts then you are a ******. Fights are almost never decided by the dps ships.
So why should I fly a 500mil ship to probe when i can fly a 20mil probing frigate and just as easily escape any gate camp since I can move at 3000m/s ? At least that way I can guarantee that i can burn back to gate if there are cans out or enough people out to decloak my T3. Who cares about tanking rats while you're cloaky and interdiction nullified? You're making 30mil isk/hr, why would anybody care if anybody is stupid enough to do that. If you dislike bots, you should be complaining about CCP being horribly incompetent at getting rid of them rather than a ship class. And as far as unscannable gang links go, I think this is honestly a very stupid argument because frankly rarely do people actually try to scan these ships down. I have, in the past, used a cyclone to gang boost myself, and it wasn't unscannable, I just left it in an off-scan bookmark aligned out and would periodically check for probes--you would not catch me even if you tried to scan me--this isn't any different in result than running an unscannable gang booster except that I don't have to waste my time watching out for my ship. I do agree that fights are almost never decided by the dps ships, but they are most certainly almost never decided by a cloaky nullified T3. They are decided by other EWAR ships like the curse, falcon, what have you and the tengu or any other T3 never plays those roles because they are quite simply worse than their recon counterparts for playing these roles.
In my opinion T3's give the ability for individual or small groups of players to effectively be safer against larger groups of players through scouting/boosting etc... without having to deal with dualboxing and actively fighting on multiple accounts, and this is a good thing. |
chrisss0r
No.Mercy Merciless.
3
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Posted - 2011.11.26 20:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
Angsty Teenager wrote:Chriss0r, you're doing it wrong.
I have no problem killing cloaky, nullified, unscannable T3's and I live right next to you. T3's are not overpowered in this configuration in any respect. If you choose to run cloaky and nullified, you lose over half your dps, even more if you actually want to fit pvp mids. If you fit unscannable, you are wasting 3 mid slots to do so, and you can still be scanned down, just buy some virtue implants.
The reason I don't care about cloaky T3's running missions is becuase they don't make **** for isk since they do missions slowly. The missions where they can finish it fast enough to make it worth it are just as easily doable in a frigate like a dramiel so there is no risk either way, and with the T3 you're just risking 400 more mil.
It honestly seems like you are complaining because there is no easy to way to say "I have 10 guys here that can camp, so I should be able to catch everything that undocks or jumps gate." I see no reason to complain about T3's in a fleet fight, any cloaky/nullified fits are useless in the battle, and even if there are unscannable fleet boosts for the enemy fleet, they take barely any time to train for, just get your own.
T3's fit out to be hard to catch are supposed to be hard to catch, especially if they're piloted by non-idiots.
the main problem i have with nullified t3s is that they are a botters dream. Before t3s you had a chance to catch botters by anchoring bubbles. It is now impossible to catch a bot short of awoxing and that affects me very much because if whole powerblocks can run macro farms taht are impossible to catch. And no you should not be able to be left alone just because u fitted your ship somwhat expensive. t would be ok if nulli cloaky t3s would be very very good blockade runners but they can do so much more than that and i'm sure ccp didn't intend a claoky nullified hardly probable tengu to run level 4 missions or bot the isk for numerous moms
edit: because a tengu aligns as fast as a helios, doesnt have to burn out of any bubbles and can be used to run plexes you find.
you can easily make 200m an hour in a cloaky nullified tengu and you know full well you can but of course you are feeding the ignorance of empire dwellers and maybe ccp to keep profiting from that broken game mechanic ;)
How else would you be able to afford flying 1.4b dramiels? :P |
Angsty Teenager
Derpotle
4
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Posted - 2011.11.26 20:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
>implying I fly covert ops interdiction nullified tengus :P The fact that I don't should be apparent from the effort I went through to make warp spots to redock when the n5y station was bubble camped.
Also, show me proof of you making 200mil an hour in a covert ops interdiction nullified tengu. This, in my experience, is impossible.
And you have to keep in mind that guristas missions don't exist everywhere in 0.0. I would argue that if anything, you should be complaining about the profitability of guristas missions since that's really the only reason why you would care about having covert ops tengus in your area regardless of whether or not they are catchable. I.e. you wouldn't care about afk cloakers because they aren't doing anything.
And yes, sure they are a botter's dream. But like I said before, this isn't a problem of T3's, this is a problem of CCP failing to do anything really about catching botters. Blaming T3's for botting is ridiculous because it's stupid to compromise gameplay (in my opinion) to make botting harder. Botting should just be better monitored, and there should not be any sort of absurd rules like only getting a 2 week ban for the first offense so that the botters can just sell their character, buy a new one, and start anew. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
2356
|
Posted - 2011.11.26 23:47:00 -
[20] - Quote
chrisss0r wrote:the main problem i have with nullified t3s is that they are a botters dream. Before t3s you had a chance to catch botters by anchoring bubbles. It is now impossible to catch a bot short of awoxing and that affects me very much because if whole powerblocks can run macro farms taht are impossible to catch. You want to nerf a ship class and fittings because of botters? Did I read you right?
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
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