Your facts are equally applicable to T1 industrials. Interceptors take 10d to train (racial frigate: 3d, evasive maneuvering 5: 7d) -- low training time, check. Smartbombing kills T1 industrials, check. Well timed bombing runs kill T1 industrials, check. Wrong T1 industrial fit = caught, check. Bad skills -> caught? T1 industrial, checkaroonie. Pilot error -> caught? You better believe T1 industrials get a check here. Bigger footprint? Logging on 16 titan pilots to bridge industrials around ISN'T a big footprint? Contact lists exist. T1 industrial footprint? Check.

You can't selectively apply your "facts" to interceptors and not allow them to touch T1 industrials too.

... I read 4000 freaking posts by myself. ...

So, basically your proposal encourages an existing system such as PL/N3 where they let players use the space in exchange for payments that ensure the renter doesnt get roflstomped out of their systems and replaced with the next eager tenant. And a simple change to breaking up NA/BoT into smaller alliances (most likely based of regions and still ultimately answering to the landlord) would circumvent any extra costs. It doesnt change any active factors. And if the landlords notice certain space not being worth the cost due to underuse, they let the sov drop and simply smack down any attempts to take it from them without proper compensation. This is all easily done with current mechanics. These changes don't completely render that impossible. It is one step in a process. And i dont expect renting to ever disappear so long as one person wants the benefits of the space without taking the major risks and is willing to pay for it.

The current situation allows massive blob of large ships to have relative agility much higher than even the fastest small ships, in the form of jump drives. The changes will curb that movement.

Part of the goal with logistics is to reduce the amount you need to live in null, which we think changes the playing field fairly substantially.

Whatever the changes are going to change in the future - much more interesting is to see what already changes. A -250 delta change for Brothers of Tanga is quite a number. That reads in my book: the changes are good as something is happening

You're creating a highly pocketed nullsec, don't turn it into space which can be handled with a single JF running continuously. You're creating challenges with the current changes, keep it that way.

I would much prefer this info come in a delayed time frame rather than moved completely. Even a decent-sized alliance isn't going to find any fun in checking every single POS every 24hrs to see if its not RFed. Even with the changes there will still be some empty systems with POSes running just because the system value is terribly placed. Basically still ends up with the same time delay if you had to check it yourself, but without the wrist cutting job of flying to every moon in your constellation (or larger if you are bigger).

My only argument against that, is under the current system most groups will have A: A lot (too many most likely) POSes to keep track of B: an automated system for reporting which reduces checking on a large amount to a biweekly/monthly basis, both of which I could agree are not the best gameplay. While we reduce the number of POSes through the jump changes and coalition consolidation, if we completely remove the warning system, it has a major negative impact on the number of POSes an alliance can manage sanely even theough they are easily capable of managing the sov space. Its much easier to check 10-20 systems and their structures, and extremely painful to check all of the moons (assuming more moons are used since less space).

Under the jump changes, possible future sov changes, and a removal of structure notifications the workload becomes intense. So rather than having to spend hours if not a day or two checking to see if a POS is still there, the notification would not be immediate and around a similar time-frame to if you had to manually fly yourself. The intent is to keep the time-frame the same, but the menial workload down. I suspect making the updates from 1-2 days delayed would be sufficient. With how POS timers work this would basically give you anywhere from <12 hours to prepare a defense. Removing notifications from sov structures would not be as harmful since it is more visible to see which ones are RFed and their are multiple timers to prepare for. POS (iirc) only has one timer, and the effect could be very painful and annoying if you missed one of 100+ POSes on your checklist.

Ideally the only affect this would have compared to a complete removal is the improved sanity of the POS teams.

The jump fatigue mechanics were designed to limit the travel speed of jumping whether by ship or bridge. So they don't need to go. People just need to understand that this wasn't a cap ship nerf, it was a travel speed nerf. And it appears to be working.

Ahem. As one that "mutters" I have a question.

Has anyone proposed having characters designate a "home region" where jump fatigue isn't generated? This could have at least a multiple month reset timer so changing couldn't be exploited.

The Jita monument awaits your attention.

You mean to say jump bridges arent used strategically?

Maybe I didn't say it clearly enough either, there is no Casual use of jump anything. A jump is a jump regardless of the destination or intention. The only exception to this use is with industrials. It was only allowed because nullsec is not in a position to handle its own production yet. Once that is solved it is likely to go away too.

Maybe I didn't say it clearly enough either, there is no Casual use of jump anything. A jump is a jump regardless of the destination or intention. The only exception to this use is with industrials. It was only allowed because nullsec is not in a position to handle its own production yet. Once that is solved it is likely to go away too.

How does a pilots intentions change the effects of a jump? Is there a menu that asks whether you are here for business or pleasure? And now that the pilot has successfully convinced customs that he is here to enjoy the sites, what's to stop him from shooting anything he wants?

You may think it's a casual use, but there is no difference in what you can do. Unless you consider hot dropping regions away as casual use then I guess that's part of the issue.

It doesn't matter what you intend to do at the other end. I could decide to refit my ratting carrier for combat after shooting a rat or two. How do you plan on differentiating the two? How do you plan to ensure a ship on the other side of a jump is not allowed to do combat? And it's not the jump itself that's the problem, it's the pilots movement. That's why phoebe came with death clone changes as well.

And I'm going to ask again, how do you plan to stop abuse of this? If you can shoot rats at your destination what's to stop from shooting players or structures?

I keep asking these questions because you won't answer them. Just snide remarks about "duh they're different. Everybody knows that". Yes jump bridges provide better QoL, but how do you plan to prevent that change from being abused for unintended purposes? Apparently it's so obvious that nobody brought it up in the last 400+ pages of discussion that preceded phoebe.

So please, educate my ignorant self.

Apparently the solution is too obvious to explain to some simpleton on the forums.

I explained a few pages back that there is no difference between casual and any other descriptive use of a jump anything. Casually using something does not make it casual as you would like it to be defined. Before phoebe people were dropping carriers everywhere and jumping around all the time. Simply saying you are trying to protect casual use does not make it better in any way. Especially when there is a claim to keep it relatively possible compared someone using it explicitly for strategic purposes. Thats why I kept asking the difference.

If its not worth the time, then obviously it wasn't important enough. No more,"Iforgot that module back in highsec, I'll be back in 5 minutes."

Also: Marxist? explanation please

If you think this is a threadnaught . . .

While I appreciate that Phoebe really shook things up in the Eve universe, I'd really like to install a fatigue timer on the elevators in CCP's offices. Oh, you want to go to the fifth floor? Well, either you can wait fifteen minutes between each floor, or else you won't be able to use the elevator for the next two weeks. .

While I appreciate that Phoebe really shook things up in the Eve universe, I'd really like to install a fatigue timer on the elevators in CCP's offices. Oh, you want to go to the fifth floor? Well, either you can wait fifteen minutes between each floor, or else you won't be able to use the elevator for the next two weeks. You don't like that? Take the stairs. Which are guarded by dogs. Or bees. Or dogs with bees in their mouths that shoot bees at you when they bark.

In other words, on the larger level, i classify Phoebe a success. On the individual level, it is a frustrating mechanic.

Or you could use a gate once in a while.