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Mung Lore United Eve Mining Association	Posted - 2006.08.13 17:34:00 - [1] Edited by: Mung Lore on 13/08/2006 17:44:12 I am sad to announce that after repeated attempts to secure items held in trust by EIB I am no closer then I was 2 weeks ago in enforcing the insurance severance language. I have worked with due diligence to attempt to resolve the issues and enforce the insurance contract with EIB (multiple in-game chats, eve mails, securing a trusted third party and finally posts to the forum). I simply cannot continue to operate in the best interest of the shareholders without knowing where the outstanding shares are actually located. As posted by EIB, they have threatened a hostile takeover of UEMA Unfortunately, it seems the shares that were held in trust by EIB and now under the control of Kal, who also has threatened a hostile take over of UEMA. This uncertainty, the history of grossly failed internal procedures and lack of honoring the publicly posted insurance contract leave me no other choice. I have enacted a closeout strategy for UMEA. The process will be to: 1. Liquidate minerals, blue print originals and blue print copies Dual Light Paluse Laser II Capital Remote Armor Repair Capital Armor Repair Cynosual field Gen. 2. A dividend will be issued 3. I will then place the EIB person that cally placed in UEMA as the CEO so on his return he can issue the last dividends from the isk in the EIB account 4. I will keep Mung in the corp and attempt to assist with all final dividend issuances The problem this presents is that the shares held in trust by EIB will also receive the dividends issued. The final process to liquidate UEMA will be to issue a dividend payment accounting for these dividend payments and the Isk they currently hold in trust by EIB. I would like to thank all of my investors and people that have helped me. I believe UEMA had great potential to become an extremely profitable corporation. Regards, Mung Lore
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.13 17:35:00 - [2] --[23] Member-- Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
EMFi Manager EvE Mutual Fund Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.13 17:36:00 - [3] Edited by: EMFi Manager on 13/08/2006 17:41:08 Good post Mung, I understand how you feel and why you do this. I hope that EIB is allowing you to unlock these prints so you can sell and liquidate, and I hope you won't run of with the proceeds instead of paying out dividends. I also hope that EIB will payout everything to the shareholders with a minimum of 75%. This war of UEMA vs EIBI has gone on too long. And I am glad it is over and hope the shareholders aren't going to be the victim here. /me tips hat. Alt of Naphtalia Visit my investment site
Mung Lore United Eve Mining Association	Posted - 2006.08.13 17:43:00 - [4] Edited by: Mung Lore on 13/08/2006 17:43:44 Unlocking the BPO's wont be an issue, due to a BUGED voting system. :) I didnt cast the vote outside the station...
EMFi Manager EvE Mutual Fund Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.13 17:47:00 - [5] ok.. Mung, have you talked about this process with an EIB rep? or will they want to liquidate it themselves? Alt of Naphtalia Visit my investment site
EMFi Manager EvE Mutual Fund Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.13 17:57:00 - [6] Before I leave this thread... one VERY imporant issue... what I miss in your procedure is you returning the 3000 UEMA shares you "took" from the corp to your main without paying for them. I am sure you will move those back to corpwallet before you pay out dividends and you don't expect to receive 3bil bonus "for your troubles" while the shareholders are going to be losing out between 10% and 80% of their investments? I certainly hope that was an oversight. Faithfully, EMFi Alt of Naphtalia Visit my investment site
Archo X Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.13 21:00:00 - [7] Can I have your stuff? On a more serious note (though my request was serious :D) these events are unfortunate. However, they do help prove how unstable the current financial market is. Hopefully CCP will put in some measures that will help stabalize this system. Also, I commend how you handled this in the end. You have removed youself from the situation and now the shareholders are getting burned by EIB. There is nothing that can be done about that though.
Mung Lore United Eve Mining Association	Posted - 2006.08.13 21:22:00 - [8] Originally by: EMFi Manager Before I leave this thread... one VERY imporant issue... what I miss in your procedure is you returning the 3000 UEMA shares you "took" from the corp to your main without paying for them. I am sure you will move those back to corpwallet before you pay out dividends and you don't expect to receive 3bil bonus "for your troubles" while the shareholders are going to be losing out between 10% and 80% of their investments? I certainly hope that was an oversight. Faithfully, EMFi You really need to read thee UEMA/EIB contact and the IPO, I didnt take anything, they were given to me for doing the IPO, GIVEN! (we talked about this).. the full given things. I would get isk from the dividends just like everyone els. For without them 3k shares I would not of put my self, and UEMA through all this.
EMFi Manager EvE Mutual Fund Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.13 21:37:00 - [9] Originally by: Mung Lore I would get isk from the dividends just like everyone els. Yes I know, I am not contesting you getting DIVIDENDS but do you think you should get 10% of the liquidated funds? pocket 3bil for your efforts in this failed operation (failed not becuase of you but still failed)? You are quiting so your dividends should stop don't you agree? and the shares should be returned? Yours Faithfully EMFi! Alt of Naphtalia Visit my investment site
Kitty O'Shay Tharsis Security	Posted - 2006.08.13 22:16:00 - [10] I'm surprised that Mung held on this long. So, it's working out like this: - The Mung character is pretty much abandoned into UEMA as a way to keep an eye on what's going on. - Investors will get a payout, based the liquidation. - Mung gets paid from the liquidation on his 3k shares (EMFI says 3b worth). - EIB gets to keep what it's holding, since if Cally comes back, I seriously doubt the EIB held ISK will be distributed. But when I read the EIB IPO insurance contract when it was first posted, I felt that any corp getting involved was asking for trouble. Game mechanics just don't support that sort of thing, and to have it work, involves people doing what they promised, and being online to do it. As for Mung getting the 3b (supposedly), good for him. It should be more for having to deal with Cally+alts/EIB all this time. It sounds like Mung's player has really had his game time ruined trying to run UEMA with all the bull going around it. Also, Cally/EIB can't complain now. I predict they'll hang on to the UEMA assets and never make the final liquidation payment. So, that's free ISK for them. --
bogir War And Peace Construction	Posted - 2006.08.13 22:55:00 - [11] why dont UMEA "buy" back the shares for us investors. for IPO price. the money shout be there when the BPOs are sold. then we dont have the problem whit EIB hold (15k shares if i rember right) that they will get "payed for". just my sad 2CP
Eilene Fernite	Posted - 2006.08.13 23:35:00 - [12] I fully understand Mung's decision. I think the way he's proposing to close shop is praiseworthy. He has had a total lack of assistance from the EIB, he's been flamed for lots of things (including bad grammar, if you can't get him on arguments, get him on grammar, right ). Actually, I'm sort of surprised he's trying his best to get things worked out for the investors until the end. Now that this story is coming to an end, I cannot conclude anything else but that the EIB and their total lack of organisation has helped bring down what could have been, and would have been a very successful business. A word of advise to Naphtalia, pull out of the whole EIB drama, stop picking on Mung Lore, and save whatever's left of your reputation before it's too late.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.13 23:56:00 - [13] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 13/08/2006 23:59:25 Originally by: Eilene Fernite I fully understand Mung's decision. I think the way he's proposing to close shop is praiseworthy. He has had a total lack of assistance from the EIB, he's been flamed for lots of things (including bad grammar, if you can't get him on arguments, get him on grammar, right ). Actually, I'm sort of surprised he's trying his best to get things worked out for the investors until the end. Now that this story is coming to an end, I cannot conclude anything else but that the EIB and their total lack of organisation has helped bring down what could have been, and would have been a very successful business. A word of advise to Naphtalia, pull out of the whole EIB drama, stop picking on Mung Lore, and save whatever's left of your reputation before it's too late. Mung Lore isn't perfect either. He's been extremely rude, and to be honest, none of what has happened has justified his attitude at any point. However, EIB(I) is equally responsible. The biggest issue appears to be the fact that Cally simply hasn't logged on, and thus everything EIBI-related has ground to a massive halt. Mung is justified in what he has done, but he is not justified in how he has done it. --[23] Member-- Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
Caroglac Amarr The Arrow Project The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2006.08.14 00:35:00 - [14] Mung, so your going to keep the 3,000 shares of UEMA that you hold in trust for uema? the reason I say in "trust" is becouse those shares dont belong to you... your only entitled to dividends from the shares ..... this is why I think its a bad idea for any publicly traded company in eve to issue shares to employees... instead you should pay a salery out of corp wallet to your employees becouse when the employee quits you haveto count on them being "honorable" to get your shares back.... ohwell, I guess this just proves that Kal of EIB is right about you mung Im glad I dont own any UEMA Stock :)
Ezoran DuBlaidd Minmatar Astromecha Industries	Posted - 2006.08.14 00:37:00 - [15] so who exactly is hounding EIB to pony up what they took? sounds rather stupid to go after mung for 3,000 shares if eib is sitting with 15,000 shares.
Kitty O'Shay Tharsis Security	Posted - 2006.08.14 00:51:00 - [16] Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd so who exactly is hounding EIB to pony up what they took? sounds rather stupid to go after mung for 3,000 shares if eib is sitting with 15,000 shares. Apparently, EIB/EIBI can do no wrong. Too many people have too much invested to say otherwise. Besides, the liquidation will benefit EIB more than anyone else, so why should they bother? And it's hard to get people to do anything, if they don't log their account in. --
Caroglac Amarr The Arrow Project The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2006.08.14 00:56:00 - [17] Originally by: Mung Lore Edited by: Mung Lore on 13/08/2006 17:43:44 Unlocking the BPO's wont be an issue, due to a BUGED voting system. :) I didnt cast the vote outside the station... so your going to exploit the voteing bug to sell UEMA bpo's? what price are you going to sell them for?
Salazar N'terre Caldari Intergalactic Combined Technologies	Posted - 2006.08.14 00:59:00 - [18] Originally by: Caroglac Originally by: Mung Lore Edited by: Mung Lore on 13/08/2006 17:43:44 Unlocking the BPO's wont be an issue, due to a BUGED voting system. :) I didnt cast the vote outside the station... so your going to exploit the voteing bug to sell UEMA bpo's? what price are you going to sell them for? Wait, can't mung be petitioned if he unlocks the bpos using a bug, and possibly banned. Escpecially if he knows its a bug? I mean do you really need to resort to using a bug to go around the voting system. "People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." "Laugh and EVE laughs with you. Cry and EVE laughs louder." -Anonymous
Funky Witherbean	Posted - 2006.08.14 01:08:00 - [19] Originally by: Kitty O'Shay Apparently, EIB/EIBI can do no wrong. Too many people have too much invested to say otherwise. Well, I'd say it's more like there are people reserving opinion, and then a lot of people with the "if you aren't against EIB, you are FOR them" mentality. There has been a very concerted effort of late by parties unnamed to force people to take sides. I guess it's simpler to think about that way. In any event, I think that the active players involved with EIB/EIBI are trying to figure out how to do their stakeholders as right as they can, and we should give them the time they have asked for. Mung- I think it is admirable that you are liquidating your venture in this way. When someone buys into an IPO, they should know that the business may fail (something like 2 out of 3 do in USA). You are demonstrating that the assets held by a company mean something, and that the risk of loss when investing in a company needn't be 100% of the investment. It's good to see a player try to do what he thinks is right.
Treelox Amarr Storm Industries	Posted - 2006.08.14 02:14:00 - [20] So now that you have rolled over Mung, how about posting the contract between UEMA and EIBI. I would be very intrested to read that, after the last month plus of scat throwing that has occured. My personal opinion Mung, unless it spells it out in the contract the 3k shares you recieved as salary, are not yours to keep so you can recieve a 3bil golden parachute. It was a mechanic to pay you a salary. Unless of course the contract stipulated otherwise. Keeping them and receiving more isk out than you put in smells of the ebil "S" word that gets thrown around in this forum often. No I am not calling you one. I am just stating that if you are giving up on a corp and closing it down in a nice and clean fashion, Should you really profit from it? P.S. Kitty, i love your sig, a good chuckle everytime.
Ariu Devine	Posted - 2006.08.14 03:08:00 - [21] Originally by: Treelox So now that you have rolled over Mung, how about posting the contract between UEMA and EIBI. I would be very intrested to read that, after the last month plus of scat throwing that has occured. My personal opinion Mung, unless it spells it out in the contract the 3k shares you recieved as salary, are not yours to keep so you can recieve a 3bil golden parachute. It was a mechanic to pay you a salary. Unless of course the contract stipulated otherwise. Keeping them and receiving more isk out than you put in smells of the ebil "S" word that gets thrown around in this forum often. No I am not calling you one. I am just stating that if you are giving up on a corp and closing it down in a nice and clean fashion, Should you really profit from it? Quote: http://www.eve-search.com/index.dxd?thread=353390
Treelox Amarr Storm Industries	Posted - 2006.08.14 04:09:00 - [22] Originally by: Ariu Devine http://www.eve-search.com/index.dxd?thread=353390 Thank you Ariu. I really must use eve-search, but always space it(lazy). I had read this before. The reason I asked mung to show the contract he has refered to here, in previous posts, and in different assorted finacial in game chat channels. Is because there are many thing that mung claims are a violation of contract, that I do not see spelled out in the contract as was posted by Cally orginally. This leads me to wonder if there is not some secrect appendix, or some serious misunderstandings on either parties understanding of the contract. Unfortunetly I must pose these questions to Mung since Cally has been MIA. Although intrestingly enough there are no provisions in the contract for Cally being MIA only if Mung was to be.
Kuame Lore Supero Omnia	Posted - 2006.08.14 06:52:00 - [23] Originally by: Salazar N'terre Originally by: Caroglac Originally by: Mung Lore Edited by: Mung Lore on 13/08/2006 17:43:44 Unlocking the BPO's wont be an issue, due to a BUGED voting system. :) I didnt cast the vote outside the station... so your going to exploit the voteing bug to sell UEMA bpo's? what price are you going to sell them for? Wait, can't mung be petitioned if he unlocks the bpos using a bug, and possibly banned. Escpecially if he knows its a bug? I mean do you really need to resort to using a bug to go around the voting system. Its a BUG not a explot, there is a very big difference, its not like I'm trying to use it, its very hard not to use a buged system. Petition all you like. I will be saling everything for as much as I can get out of them so you the investors get as much as you can back. People said I should buy back the shares, and thats fine, but whos going give UEMA that much money should I sale a 4bil BPO for 12.. As far as my shares go, well there my shares, they were given to me by the IPO and says nothing about giving them back. I earned them, I will get some isk from this as well it works out for everyone. BTW: If your like any of the BPO's listing above contact me so we can work out a deal price. the t2 is reserched to me 100 and pe 100
EMFI AATP	Posted - 2006.08.14 08:14:00 - [24] Originally by: Kuame Lore BTW: If your like any of the BPO's listing above contact me so we can work out a deal price. the t2 is reserched to me 100 and pe 100 Convo me about the t2 print if you happen to unlock it.
Heikki Gallente Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2006.08.14 12:42:00 - [25] Originally by: Kuame Lore/Mung Lore Its a BUG not a explot Actually, one defition of exploit is an intentional use of a bug for illegal gain. Although in this case you might just be using a bug to overcome another bug.. Originally by: Kuame Lore/Mung Lore People said I should buy back the shares IMHO, if your goal is to return as much assets back to investors, this is about the only way. Especially if we assume that there is lot of fishy things going in EIB(I), who own most of the shares. You probably don't want to pay even more ISK to them as dividends. This would actually honor the spirit of your original backup plan: Originally by: "Mung Lore" isk will be returned to the investors .. at a rate of 100% of what they paid for it. Do you have (or able to generate) list of who bought what shares in the IPO? I reckon sales went through Cally himself, so might be tricky. Anyway, one suggestion for 'fair' liquidation: 1) Announce your buyback plan in Forums 2) Start selling assets (or have EMFI to do it) 3) If you placed some initial assets to the corp in the beginning, take these away. 4) Decide how much salary you want from the investors for all these problems/handling the liquidation, and take that first. Any shares you own are irrelevant to this, assuming you 'bought' them for 0 invested ISK. 5) Keep transaction log of events in steps 6 and 7 5a) If you have list of the original IPO buyers and amounts, buy shares back from them first 5b) Otherwise, buy first from reputable fellows who assure they bought at the IPO 6) Use rest of the liquidated ISK to buy back from the folks who hold rest of the shares, regardless where they got them 7) Finish selling assets and buying back shares Publish the final report and success of liquidation. Should you one day start another operation, folks will know you are trustable (at least up to these kind of ISK amounts). Some of the investors (early buyers) will get full refund, later speculators will get partial/no reimbursements -> sounds like fairest possible solution to me. -Lasse
Death Mate	Posted - 2006.08.14 13:21:00 - [26] Originally by: EMFI AATP Originally by: Kuame Lore BTW: If your like any of the BPO's listing above contact me so we can work out a deal price. the t2 is reserched to me 100 and pe 100 Convo me about the t2 print if you happen to unlock it. DUDE, did you just imply you wanted to purchase (profit off) a BPO from a failed and controversial venture whilst stock-holders may be SHORTED money from the loss at the end of the day. Please, STEP AWAY from the keyboard if you'd like to keep any objectivity and integrity. You're supposed to be the AUDITOR and third-party that people are to trust. Seriously?
EMFI Auditor	Posted - 2006.08.14 13:42:00 - [27] Quote: DUDE, did you just imply you wanted to purchase (profit off) a BPO from a failed and controversial venture whilst stock-holders may be SHORTED money from the loss at the end of the day. I don't want Mung Lore to unlock the print... but if it unlocks he could do anything with it, and try to sell it. Don't see why I shouldn't buy it.. If I am in the market at least that is 1 more buyer and if I offer the highest price. If Mung decides to liquidate then he has more isk to do so. Quote: If you'd like to keep any objectivity and integrity. You're supposed to be the AUDITOR and third-party that people are to trust. I am not auditing UEMA and have no position in the relationship between UEMA and EIB.. also this thread isn't about UEMA vs EIB (which I am auditing) but about UEMA's liquidation. As the CEO of AATP it is my responsibility to my shareholders to get any deals that can be gotten. I have no ethical problem with buying this t2 print from Mung Lore if he manages to unlock it by circumventing the EIB vote. Even though I might disagree with him selling it.
Eilene Fernite	Posted - 2006.08.14 14:53:00 - [28] Originally by: Dark Shikari He's been extremely rude, and to be honest, none of what has happened has justified his attitude at any point. If that's a reason to bash on a business venture, than the EIB is no better, just read Kal d'vogh's posts.
Mung Lore United Eve Mining Association	Posted - 2006.08.14 15:08:00 - [29] if you people look at your share I didnt send the unlock vote for the tech 2 bpo yet, I may not. I may put the EIB char in charge of the corp and leave it lock and let cally deal with it when he gets back, becouse he caused this . That may be the better way.
Eilene Fernite	Posted - 2006.08.14 15:12:00 - [30] Originally by: EMFI Auditor I am not auditing UEMA and have no position in the relationship between UEMA and EIB.. also this thread isn't about UEMA vs EIB (which I am auditing) but about UEMA's liquidation. As UEMA's liquidation appears to be a direct result from the EIB failing in executing it's IPO insurance contract, you do have a position in their relationship. As the auditor, you should have the details on exactly what assests the EIB holds in EUMA. Also, you offering to buy EUMA's bpos is making it look like you're trying to take advantage of the end of a corporation that you yourself have helped take down. It's good business, but not exactly good publicity.

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