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Orryc Equilibrium LLC United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2006.08.13 21:53:00 - [1] Which would you keep? If you had to pick one, due to financial constraints... You fly mostly in small gangs, prefer to get up close and personal, and like the ability to tank a while. Right now the Deimos is winning, it just seems to do more damage than the Vaga.. all applicable skills are equal between the two. Opinions? Director Equilibrium LLC
Flaming sambuka IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2006.08.13 21:55:00 - [2] Vagabond because they are INVINCIBLE
Draugz Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.13 21:57:00 - [3] Survivability and control of your fights are the Vagabond. Huge dps, moderate tank close and personal with a few friends having your back is the Deimos. Deimos suits your wants the most. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty - Cortes
Aeaus Tharsis Security	Posted - 2006.08.13 22:31:00 - [4] To be honest, unless you're in an all-vagabond gang the deimos wins for small gang warfare. It does a lot of damage, it has a suitable tank. The vagabond is more suited for getting in and out quickly. My Guides
Akiman	Posted - 2006.08.13 22:37:00 - [5] imo vaga is a runner, deimos is a fighter... tho deimos needs a fix
kessah Caldari Blood Corsairs	Posted - 2006.08.13 23:23:00 - [6] i know a real life friend that has the deimos bpo and if he's a good friend he will sell me at least 3 for the price of one Vagabond. Thats quite enuf for me to train Gallente Cruiser 5 even tho i hate gallente. Remember that bastard coming into uni one day saying he got it seeded and at that time im a newb thinking "wow great, i just trained Gallente frig 5" as if that was anything close to his news. ahh mebbie i should have taken more notice and took advange of his situation..... bummer. Anyone have a time machine? Perhaps a DeLorean? -------------------------------------------------------- Forever Pirate
Elliott Manchild omen.	Posted - 2006.08.13 23:29:00 - [7] Edited by: Elliott Manchild on 13/08/2006 23:31:31 vagabond <3 deimos dies if it runs out of cap, has to get into really close so can't back out of a fight and in now days times its good to be able to get away from blobs. Or is it just me that finds 30 man blobs chasing my vagabond everywhere? :(
wierchas noobhunter Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.08.13 23:32:00 - [8] well this is wery sad but deimos sucks balls
Commander Thrawn Fluffy rabbit killer's inc	Posted - 2006.08.13 23:58:00 - [9] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter well this is wery sad but deimos sucks balls everyone says that, i must say i don't really get it pre-RMR the deimos was probably the best HAC along with the zealot what has changed here i know the vag is good since nos is a huge part of pvp now and it can run, where both the deimos and zealot have a bit more trouble with this are their other changes that i've missed here
Ras Blumin 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.14 02:34:00 - [10] Originally by: Commander Thrawn pre-RMR the deimos was probably the best HAC along with the zealot what has changed here i know the vag is good since nos is a huge part of pvp now and it can run, where both the deimos and zealot have a bit more trouble with this are their other changes that i've missed here I don't think deimos was ever that hot, it was more people thinking "OMFG DPS!?!", ie. ppl have gotten smarter since then. Heck, back in the day, muninns were more expensive than vagas, as hardly anyone had a clue how to fly or fit them. The buff of LSE 2's and the introduction of barrage helped the vaga bit tho ;o ..

Commander Thrawn Fluffy rabbit killer's inc	Posted - 2006.08.14 02:42:00 - [11] Edited by: Commander Thrawn on 14/08/2006 02:43:11 Originally by: Ras Blumin Originally by: Commander Thrawn pre-RMR the deimos was probably the best HAC along with the zealot what has changed here i know the vag is good since nos is a huge part of pvp now and it can run, where both the deimos and zealot have a bit more trouble with this are their other changes that i've missed here I don't think deimos was ever that hot, it was more people thinking "OMFG DPS!?!", ie. ppl have gotten smarter since then. Heck, back in the day, muninns were more expensive than vagas, as hardly anyone had a clue how to fly or fit them. The buff of LSE 2's and the introduction of barrage helped the vaga bit tho ;o .. I must say 1v1 the vega would own a deimos and would probably get a draw vs a zealot. however both the zealot and deimos too me are much better in small gang because of the dps. ew and nos don't hurt as much in gangs as you may not be primary and will have other gang mates doing the ecm for you if the OP is planning on being part of a small gang with tacklers and ecm boats. then he is much better of being a dmg dealer. edit: if he's planning on doing belt piracy or solo hunting, then take the vag
wierchas noobhunter Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.08.14 02:46:00 - [12] Originally by: Commander Thrawn Originally by: wierchas noobhunter well this is wery sad but deimos sucks balls everyone says that, i must say i don't really get it pre-RMR the deimos was probably the best HAC along with the zealot what has changed here i know the vag is good since nos is a huge part of pvp now and it can run, where both the deimos and zealot have a bit more trouble with this are their other changes that i've missed here well pre rmr gank > tank all ways not its bit changed and most of your target has at least saml tank deimos problem is that he cant tank and gank some time for most other hac its going just fine deimos has bad pg / bad cap / and big fat armro exp rez its tho extremly close range ship its make deimos suck so bad diemos well is realy not bad ships in gangs with his hight dps well until he not runs out of cap ... thing is that anyone can setup rax for like ~ 400dps only paiing 7 mils for ship and rax gona show almost same performances in gang
Commander Thrawn Fluffy rabbit killer's inc	Posted - 2006.08.14 03:24:00 - [13] Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: Commander Thrawn Originally by: wierchas noobhunter well this is wery sad but deimos sucks balls everyone says that, i must say i don't really get it pre-RMR the deimos was probably the best HAC along with the zealot what has changed here i know the vag is good since nos is a huge part of pvp now and it can run, where both the deimos and zealot have a bit more trouble with this are their other changes that i've missed here well pre rmr gank > tank all ways not its bit changed and most of your target has at least saml tank deimos problem is that he cant tank and gank some time for most other hac its going just fine deimos has bad pg / bad cap / and big fat armro exp rez its tho extremly close range ship its make deimos suck so bad diemos well is realy not bad ships in gangs with his hight dps well until he not runs out of cap ... thing is that anyone can setup rax for like ~ 400dps only paiing 7 mils for ship and rax gona show almost same performances in gang probably if they changed the deimos 10% bonus to hybrid turret falloff range to just 10% bunos to medium hybrid turret range, it would make it a better ship. that way you could stay a little futher out of range and avoid med nos or at least light nos. not sure if that's true or not. I use lasers not blaster :)
wierchas noobhunter Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.08.14 03:37:00 - [14] Originally by: Commander Thrawn Originally by: wierchas noobhunter Originally by: Commander Thrawn Originally by: wierchas noobhunter well this is wery sad but deimos sucks balls everyone says that, i must say i don't really get it pre-RMR the deimos was probably the best HAC along with the zealot what has changed here i know the vag is good since nos is a huge part of pvp now and it can run, where both the deimos and zealot have a bit more trouble with this are their other changes that i've missed here well pre rmr gank > tank all ways not its bit changed and most of your target has at least saml tank deimos problem is that he cant tank and gank some time for most other hac its going just fine deimos has bad pg / bad cap / and big fat armro exp rez its tho extremly close range ship its make deimos suck so bad diemos well is realy not bad ships in gangs with his hight dps well until he not runs out of cap ... thing is that anyone can setup rax for like ~ 400dps only paiing 7 mils for ship and rax gona show almost same performances in gang probably if they changed the deimos 10% bonus to hybrid turret falloff range to just 10% bunos to medium hybrid turret range, it would make it a better ship. that way you could stay a little futher out of range and avoid med nos or at least light nos. not sure if that's true or not. I use lasers not blaster :) well that may help just problem is that diemos is fat and slow like old pig tbh deimos realy need bost ..
Vicious Phoenix	Posted - 2006.08.14 03:51:00 - [15] If it helps any a vaga will beat a deimos 1v1 every time. (This is irrelevant if you plan on using it in gangs though) If you will be using it primarily in gangs, I'd say go for the deimos. Then again, deimos really do suck. Deimos gets OMGBBQ'd if it encounters enemies with nos. They aren't really very versatile, it kinda just MWD to target F1, F2, etc. PRAY With the vaga you can zoom around at speeds that make inty pilots nervous and keep the range you want and generally dis-engage and run whenever you get in too deep. In conclusion: Deimos sucks except in gangs where DPS is needed. Vaga is the uber-HAC flavor of the month.
Kalixa Hihro	Posted - 2006.08.14 05:47:00 - [16] Edited by: Kalixa Hihro on 14/08/2006 05:49:24 Edited by: Kalixa Hihro on 14/08/2006 05:48:54 Originally by: Vicious Phoenix If it helps any a vaga will beat a deimos 1v1 every time. haha like that ever happens. There are ganks and big fights. There is very little in-between. One opponent is almost always hopelessly overmatched. I don't do 1v1's because every last time I have tried it, 3-4 people jumped through and ganked me. 1v1 is never what it seems and it's never 1v1. -Kal /----------------------------------------------------------------------------------/ My opinion in no way represents that of my corp or anyone I am associated with, and is probably entirely wrong.
Yazoul Samaiel Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.14 08:57:00 - [17] Well accordign to the current stats if u wanna fly solo then vega but if ur will fly mainly in gangs u can use the deimos . Nerf the vega and improve the deimos tbfh vega is realy overpowered and needs to be stoped. "What ever that doesn't Kill me just makes me stronger"
Kilostream Caldari Roving Guns Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.14 18:16:00 - [18] Well, I'm fairly new to this HAC business - it's interesting to hear people say how the Vaga is just plain better than the Deimos, and needs a nerf - I'm not sure I agree, but then maybe I'm setting it up wrong. In my humble opinion, there is a kind of balance, because to get the Vaga to work nice I cannot spare any slots for any sort of tank (The lows are taken up with damage mods and cap-friendly gear to keep the mwd available, and after the mandatory mwd, web and scram there's only one mid left - I plumped for extender rather than booster, again for cap reasons). The Deimos is a different kettle of fish - the DPS is so outrageous (especially with that bigger drone bay) I feel I can afford to make a bit of sacrifice with some low slots to get a nice armour rep on there and plug the hole in armour explosive resists. In fact, I didn't even have to make that much of a sacrifice - first I was trying to stuff all tech 2 gear on there, which just doesn't work - but go for a medium acom armour rep, and a yt8 MWD, and you'll be surprised what else you can stuff onto a Deimos. If how good a HAC really is can be judged by how relaxed you feel when you go out flying in it, then the Deimos wins for me, coz when I undock I feel like I'm in a badass ship that is also hard to kill, but in the vaga whilst I still feel like I'm in a badass ship, there is a nagging doubt in the back of my mind about it's (perceived) fragility. I'm willing to bow to the knowledge of players better versed in the art of pvp than me about what is truly the best, but I DO fly both these ships, and in all honesty it's the Deimos that "feels" the better ship to me. Easy now, Kilo
John Blackthorn Foundation Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.14 18:53:00 - [19] The Vagabond is nice becuase you can have guns that have a damage bonus, nos for pulling cap. Drones for dealing even more damge, a speed bonus that will get you out of most any toruble, and the ability of a great tank (armor or shield).
Mekon Shraude Exotic Dancers Club	Posted - 2006.08.14 19:07:00 - [20] Vagabond is the most overrated ship in eve imo. It cant deal dmg nor tank. And the pricetag, 200-250M lol. good thing i got them at 100 Go for deimos...all the way.

Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.14 19:15:00 - [21] Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel Well accordign to the current stats if u wanna fly solo then vega but if ur will fly mainly in gangs u can use the deimos . Nerf the vega and improve the deimos tbfh vega is realy overpowered and needs to be stoped. Coming from gallente with the biggest pile of pwnmobiles in the game. Minmatar has a good hac and people want to nerf it... its just sad. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Sky Hunter Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.08.14 19:15:00 - [22] Damage is not everything. First of its all wrong to compare so different ships. Second is that Deimos can deal as much dmg, point is..will he have enough range? enough cap to maintain MWD\Tank\Guns? Useless discussion imo, both HACs win in certain situations. -=-
Sky Hunter Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.08.14 19:33:00 - [23] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel Well accordign to the current stats if u wanna fly solo then vega but if ur will fly mainly in gangs u can use the deimos . Nerf the vega and improve the deimos tbfh vega is realy overpowered and needs to be stoped. Coming from gallente with the biggest pile of pwnmobiles in the game. Minmatar has a good hac and people want to nerf it... its just sad. Then lets make him think about: Nerf Ishtar - Great EW Capabilities + Ability to pull out full dmg(drones). Nerf Dominix - Same reasons + great tank. -=-
xeom Obsidian Sins	Posted - 2006.08.14 19:37:00 - [24] Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel Well accordign to the current stats if u wanna fly solo then vega but if ur will fly mainly in gangs u can use the deimos . Nerf the vega and improve the deimos tbfh vega is realy overpowered and needs to be stoped. In no way is the vaga overpowered Yaz.It may seem overpowered be the stab always being used with them but really nothing amazing.Once they WCS nerf roles around watch its usefullness drop. Ishtar+Deimos>Vaga+Munnin(doesnt get much worse then the munnin) CCP where are our t2 shield power relays? \| Join[..SIN]
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.14 19:41:00 - [25] Originally by: xeom In no way is the vaga overpowered Yaz.It may seem overpowered be the stab always being used with them but really nothing amazing.Once they WCS nerf roles around watch its usefullness drop. Depends on the penalties. Im hoping there will be a penalty that affects gate snipers the most and doesnt hurt the Vaga too badly. In almost every class, there is a gallente ship coming out on top. And when there isnt, there are discussions about how to boost the ships or nerf the others. Minmatards and amarrians both needs new engineers already... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.14 19:46:00 - [26] Originally by: Sky Hunter Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel Well accordign to the current stats if u wanna fly solo then vega but if ur will fly mainly in gangs u can use the deimos . Nerf the vega and improve the deimos tbfh vega is realy overpowered and needs to be stoped. Coming from gallente with the biggest pile of pwnmobiles in the game. Minmatar has a good hac and people want to nerf it... its just sad. Then lets make him think about: Nerf Ishtar - Great EW Capabilities + Ability to pull out full dmg(drones). Nerf Dominix - Same reasons + great tank. As far as solo pwnmobiles are concerned: curse > ishtar, pilgim >>>> ishtar. And guess what, they work better in gang. --------------------- Looking for frentix? Mail me.
Sky Hunter Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.08.14 20:00:00 - [27] Originally by: xeom Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel Well accordign to the current stats if u wanna fly solo then vega but if ur will fly mainly in gangs u can use the deimos . Nerf the vega and improve the deimos tbfh vega is realy overpowered and needs to be stoped. In no way is the vaga overpowered Yaz.It may seem overpowered be the stab always being used with them but really nothing amazing.Once they WCS nerf roles around watch its usefullness drop. Ishtar+Deimos>Vaga+Munnin(doesnt get much worse then the munnin) oh just dont start the stab discussion again. all those who whine about them just cant get anything that they can kill so once they can chase something down and it warps they go and cry. wonder why people with good amount of kills never whine about stabs being used and their targets warpin away? because its not SO frequent as some wannabes think. -=-
Bazman Caldari The Establishment	Posted - 2006.08.14 20:16:00 - [28] It's quite sick how quickly a Deimos will kill a dual large shield extended Vagabond if you can web him. Had this misfortune of losing a Deimos to an RA gank squad quite a while ago, but the two Vaga's who initially caught me had quite a surprise. One of them died and the other one survived with about 10% structure when I died. And that was using Null ammo on Ion Blasters. Ouch. If you know what your doing flying a Vagabond (Beyond web range with Barrage ammo etc) then your basically invunerable to the likes of a Deimos, the Vaga also has the advantage that interceptors enjoy, picking their fights. If you like being a thug though, get the Deimos ----- Sig removed, maximum allowed image dimensions are 400x120 and maximum allowed size is 24,000 bytes. Please contact [email protected] for more info (including a copy of your picture!) -wystler Hi TUXFORD! Blasterboat for tier 3 Gallente battleship please! Make it look cool too. Thanks. I am a
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.14 20:19:00 - [29] Originally by: Bazman It's quite sick how quickly a Deimos will kill a dual large shield extended Vagabond if you can web him. Had this misfortune of losing a Deimos to an RA gank squad quite a while ago, but the two Vaga's who initially caught me had quite a surprise. One of them died and the other one survived with about 10% structure when I died. And that was using Null ammo on Ion Blasters. Ouch. If you know what your doing flying a Vagabond (Beyond web range with Barrage ammo etc) then your basically invunerable to the likes of a Deimos, the Vaga also has the advantage that interceptors enjoy, picking their fights. If you like being a thug though, get the Deimos Yes, the tank sucks and it relies on speed and range to slowly kill its prey. Just like all matar ships should, but very few are actually capable of. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Asurix Caldari Finite Horizon	Posted - 2006.08.14 21:39:00 - [30] this is the most obvious thread I've ever seen...



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