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Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.14 04:17:00 - [1] Jumping the Research Queue: Corporate Research and Production, Ltd. (CRA) is a new venture which promises to revolutionize the Empire Research community. Many of you have already seen advertisements on the forums for new research services at CRAÆs high-sec POS in Gallente space. This large control tower contains 30 mobile laboratories, with more labs ready for deployment as demand increases. Corporate Research is now prepared to take the next step in increasing its profitable research venture. The high demand for well-researched Cruiser and Battlecruiser original blueprints (BPOs) has only increased due to the enormous backlog of NPC research slots. Our future clients are those of you who want to have a profitable BPO, but do not want to wait 1-2 months to obtain it, research it in an inefficient research lab, and then start producing your ship of choice. Instead, you want to jump the queue, and start producing immediately. Corporate Research has an answer to this quandary. Thus, CRA has prepared an Initial Public Offering (IPO) designed to generate the capital needed for this endeavour. We plan on meeting the needs of the EVE community, by selling researched BPOs on the forums for a profit. In this case, everyone is a winner. The client wins by jumping the research queue, while CRA wins by increasing its profitability and corporate assets. And now, with this IPO, you can win too. While we have 30 mobile laboratories, this means that at any one time we can run 90 ME slots, 90 PE slots, and 30 COPY slots. That is a total of 210 research slots at any one time. Financial plan: CRA plans to create 1,000,000 shares at an IPO price of 10,000 ISK per share. Of these, 500,000 will be available for public purchase. I have already put 5 billion ISK into the corporation personally, and thus the IPO monies will represent 5 billion ISK in new monies needed to increase profits. The cash infusion of 5 billion ISK will be immediately put to use by purchasing popular Cruiser, Battlecruiser, and select Battleship BPOs at NPC prices. We will then use our own high-sec labs, labs which are 25% faster than any NPC labs, to research each BPO to ME level 10, and PE level 5. All research will be conducted remotely from an NPC station in the system. This will ensure that, in the unlikely case of the POS being destroyed, the BPO assets will be safe. The corporation will continue to grow in Net Asset Value because 40% of the shares will be held by the corporation itself. Profits will thus result in future capital to purchase more BPOs. 10% of shares will be held by me as a management fee. I envision that my researched BPOs will maintain market penetration because my prices will be approx 20% below the competition. I have worked out a spreadsheet which calculates the NPC cost of the BPO, as well as fuel costs associated with that BPO. I have calculated that a mark-up in the neighbourhood of around 35% will be both profitable for the corporation, and still be a desirable price-point for CRAÆs future clients. If the market deems the value of a researched BPO at a substantially higher margin, I will sell the blueprint at a mark-up greater than 35%, while still maintaining an attractive market-determined price for it. To make the sales transaction easy for our clients, CRA will be publishing all BPOs on escrow. ôAdvertisingö will be done through a ôBPO Shopö forum thread which will list all BPOs for sale, featuring new additions and blueprints where the research is almost finished. Eventually, CRA may move towards a website with sales, but this is not in our immediate plans. I would personally prefer an IGB page that can be loaded, have customers log in using the Eve ôtrustedö feature, and then order their BPOs on the spot. This method will not be operational in the near future, however. Insured Research and Production Services
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.14 04:19:00 - [2] Client BPOs that use CRA as a research platform will not work in conjunction with the IPO. I plan on having 60 slots dedicated to the IPO, with a further 30 slots dedicated to customer BPOs. We will have no problem researching at this capacity because many research alts have joined the corporation and are paid on a per-job basis for their research. These employees only have view access at the local NPC station, so corp theft of the BPOs will not be possible. Income generated through CRAÆs research service will be separately accounted for and will be used to pay staff wages, as well as to make interest payments on the start-up loans that I required to begin this enterprise. These monies will not be included in the formula used to determine a dividend issuance. Financial details: The total assets of the corporation will be 10 billion ISK at the conclusion of the IPO. 5 billion of the ISK has already been put into the corporation by me. The current assets of Corporate Research Ltd. include: 1 Obelisk Freighter - 900 million ISK 1 Large Control Tower + defence - 500 million ISK 20 Mobile Laboratories - 1,800 million ISK Production Equipment - 800 million ISK POS Fuel Reserves (4-7 months)- 500 million ISK Funds currently insuring client BPOs - 250 million ISK Cash on hand earmarked for future client insurance - 250 million ISK Total Assets - 5,000,000,000 ISK The IPO funds will raise the additional 5 billion ISK needed for Tech1 ship BPO purchases. At the moment, it is unlikely that we will expand into the Tech2 market. We do plan, however, to expand into the Tier 3 Battleship and new Battlecruiser market when these ships become available. Over the long term, a successful, profitable, and accountable business will hopefully mean expansion into another Large Tower filled with mobile labs. Why should you buy into CRA Ltd.? The answer is simple: so that you can make money. The demand is there already for researched BPOs. Our corporation plans on meeting that demand. Each month the dividends will pay out 100% of the profits earned from the sale of researched BPOs. Because of the share breakdown, this means that profits will be allocated 50% to public shareholders, 40% to the corp wallet for future BPO acquisition, and 10% to me as a salary. Your shares will grow in value because the corporation retains a significant portion of the assets from future growth. In the meantime, you will have shares that promise to pay out a regular dividend every month. I expect to pay out dividends and publish a financial report on what most players will see as the last day of each month. Because I am Australian, this means that I will be processing dividends on the first of the month my time. I expect minimum return on investment (ROI) to be 5.0% of the IPO price. This is a conservative estimate as I see real growth potential in this enterprise. In the first month, dividends may be lower than expected, only because of the nature of this business which requires a certain amount of lead-time between the commencement of research and its conclusion. After the first monthÆs dividends, sales will be continually processed throughout the month as more researched BPOs come off the line. Insured Research and Production Services
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.14 04:20:00 - [3] Accountability and Transparency Corporate Research is accountable to you the shareholders. It offers the experience of a long-standing eve player who has been successful in various industrial jobs before. It also has an infrastructure that is not easily removed û a large POS in high-security space. To clarify, Ricdic is my other eve account, and neither he nor Ricdics are alts. I have shown my trustworthiness before at handling other peopleÆs ISK, dealing with approximately 15 billion ISK in Eve Intergalactic BankÆs funds as a bank teller under the alt Crazy Bugger. I expect that my reputation will ensure that many potential investors will know who I am, and will not be afraid to invest in my corporation. I am also happy to entertain a trusted member of the Eve public being a director in my corporation to ensure liquidation can be done if the situation requires it. For more information, I encourage all potential investors to contact me. Feel free to convo me or evemail me in-game. Also check the C-R-A chat channel. If you wish, post questions in this discussion thread: that way all potential investors can benefit from the extra information that a dialogue will bring about. For continued updates and a couple of pics, please stay tuned to my blog post here: C-R-A Blogspot Insured Research and Production Services
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.14 04:21:00 - [4] Reserved to advise of shares available. Insured Research and Production Services
cornfed1	Posted - 2006.08.14 05:43:00 - [5] Your numbers dont seem to work for me. Mobile lab: 500 cpu - 100,000 pg Caladari control tower (large)- CPU: 7,500 - 2,750,000 Later in the post u say 20 Mobile Laboratories - 1,800 million ISK but "While we have 30 mobile laboratories, this means that at any one time we can run 90 ME slots, 90 PE slots, and 30 COPY slots. That is a total of 210 research slots at any one time." This is a max of 15 labs per control tower... am i missing something?
Caroglac Amarr The Arrow Project The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2006.08.14 05:48:00 - [6] paid for 44,000 shares reserved a larger block... ive been waiting for this ipo for awhile now.. glad to see it going live.
Lisa Payne	Posted - 2006.08.14 05:50:00 - [7] Do you have the necessary alt's to operate 210 lab slots all at once ?
Fitzmaurice Wildly Unsuccessful Pacifists	Posted - 2006.08.14 05:55:00 - [8] I "reserved" 10,000 shares while the vote goes through. Best of luck Ric!
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.14 05:59:00 - [9] Originally by: cornfed1 Your numbers dont seem to work for me. Mobile lab: 500 cpu - 100,000 pg Caladari control tower (large)- CPU: 7,500 - 2,750,000 Later in the post u say 20 Mobile Laboratories - 1,800 million ISK but "While we have 30 mobile laboratories, this means that at any one time we can run 90 ME slots, 90 PE slots, and 30 COPY slots. That is a total of 210 research slots at any one time." This is a max of 15 labs per control tower... am i missing something? Thanks for your post. The numbers won't add up no matter how many times you try to calculate them. We purchased expecting to anchor two towers. However we then found that labs dont need to be onlined in order to work remotely. Therefore we decided that until this is all fixed up, we will run one tower to save on fuel costs. That is why we have more labs in use than is hypothetically possible. The 20 mobile laboratories was correct at the time of posting. I have since installed a further 10 to deal with larger demand. This isn't being counted as part of the initial 5b as the numbers already add up fine. I can write if off as I know the funds will be made up in the future, or those extra labs sold if we find they aren't necessary any more. So yes, 30 mobile labs are active with a total of 210 jobs available to be run assuming maximum occupancy Cheers Insured Research and Production Services
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.14 06:03:00 - [10] Originally by: Lisa Payne Do you have the necessary alt's to operate 210 lab slots all at once ? No, we don't. Would you like a job? Our current corp contracting alts can handle approximately 105 jobs at a time. Those alts are constantly skilling up, and telling their friends etc etc. As demand increases, so too will our employee requirements. I have been passively advertising for alts, and they seem to be appearing / skilling as required. Insured Research and Production Services
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.14 07:09:00 - [11] This IPO has been live for approximately 3 hours and we are almost sold out guys. If you are looking to invest, I suggest you don't waste any time Cheers Insured Research and Production Services
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.14 08:13:00 - [12] All shares have been sold guys. Thanks to all current and future shareholders, I hope we have a long and profitable relationship I will spend the next day or two getting organised on EGSE. Insured Research and Production Services
Erfnam Time Cube Syndicate Daikoku Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.14 12:38:00 - [13] For any who have doubts, I've seen the tower with it's cluster of labs and am currently a customer. Recruiting Casino - Monitor Thread
Altaree Gallente Red Frog Investments Daikoku Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.14 13:26:00 - [14] Ricdic, How will you handle the devs fixing the "Operating offline POS labs" bug? This sounds like it would make a MAJOR dent in your bottom line. This is not the type of thing they would post in the patch notes page. StopThePop
DrakeStone Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.14 13:32:00 - [15] I would like to reserve 75,000 shares should an issue arise and they be re-offered. I will pay immediately upon request. Please consider the time-stamp on this email concerning the request.
Erfnam Time Cube Syndicate Daikoku Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.14 13:48:00 - [16] Will the dividend for each month consist only of BPO resale profits? Or will it account for lab rental? Recruiting Casino - Monitor Thread
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.14 14:59:00 - [17] Originally by: Altaree Ricdic, How will you handle the devs fixing the "Operating offline POS labs" bug? This sounds like it would make a MAJOR dent in your bottom line. This is not the type of thing they would post in the patch notes page. My initial analysis and design of the POS was based on my not knowing that this bug even existed. Had I known, I could very well have just constructed a small tower with an extra 10 labs In the event of this being fixed (which I am definetly expecting to happen sooner or later) I will first increase pricing on my current customer rented labs, or change the structure a little. If customer demand is still high, I will determine the value in a second tower being placed. Due to my excessive amount of spare fuel, I could easily run 2 large towers for 3 months each at this point. The only purchase I would need to make would be the tower (300m) + defences (approx 50-100m). The most expensive items (being the labs) have all already been purchased. The above purchases would only make a minor dent in my capital, and would of course only be done if I felt the second POS could be used to increase profit. Either way, my profit structure was initially based on running 40 npc bpo's a month, and selling the researched bpo's at the end of the 1 month period. Once the bug is fixed, based on my current defences and calculations, I have determined that I can run approximately 18-21 mobile labs at a time. Even with 18 labs, this still gives 54 ME / 54 PE slots, which is more than enough for my business plan. However, at the time, my business plan required 3 billion isk capital (already selected bpo's) and 40 slots. With the 5b that has been raised, I plan on increasing output to 50 bpo's being researched at a time. This should still leave approximately 200m a month that can be used when required. See the business has two aspects. Customer BPO's - Customer BPO's earn a lot less profit, however they ensure that the funds will be available. I don't need to sell the end product basically. Corporate BPO's - Corporate BPO's have a huge profit margin, however those bpo's need to be sold once researched. This means having to deal with competition after making the outlay. So both have their pro's and con's. For example, click my below "queues" link. Lets assume "Customer 1" (not counting his later jobs), only counting economy jobs 1-15. The total employee salaries for these jobs is 16.5 million isk. The total income derived off this customer is 96.4 million isk. So a total profit of approximately 79 million isk on this customer. However, he has tied up 15 slots for 2 weeks. Now, we will base results on a 4 week return, as that is the approximate time taken for cruiser bpo's to reach maturity. So lets double the profit derived from the above customer. Total of 158 million isk profit / month / 15 slots. Now, lets assume those 15 slots, have 15 npc purchased thorax bpo's residing in them. I have already decided my pricing on all npc bpo's will be (npc value + pos fuel cost + 35%). So, those 15 thorax bpo's cost me in total 999,000,000 isk. Assuming max skills and POS bonus, they will take 23 days to mature (Me10, Pe5). Based on my above profit margins, the sale price will be 1.375 billion isk. Per unit = 66.6m purchase >> 91.6m sale. Anyone who watches the WTS forums, will see that the average researched thorax bpo is selling for 120-200 million isk. I have set my prices at a point where the profit is extremely good, and it should also ensure fast sales and regular customers. So basically : Customer with 15 jobs >> 30 days >> 158m profit >> Hot Sale NPC market 15 jobs >> 23 days >> 376m profit >> Cold Sale Mix the two up depending on demand and you have a great all round profit. Obviously, if I find my NPC purchased bpo's selling like hotcakes, I will divert a much higher percentage of lab slots to this avenue. I only used thorax as an example, I have around 14 different bpos in mind Insured Research and Production Services
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.14 15:44:00 - [18] Originally by: Erfnam Will the dividend for each month consist only of BPO resale profits? Or will it account for lab rental? The dividend will account for all sales, either npc purchases, or customer jobs being completed. The other issue with NPC purchases, is that they need a month to mature and then need to be sold. This may mean that the first dividend is relatively poor until those sales come through. It also means that I cannot purchase more bpo's until enough of the initial ones are sold. For this reason, I have injected 500m of my own funds to run a few cruiser and frig and industrial bpo's to try and basically get a head start before the IPO went live. Frigates will be calculated differently, as the 35% above npc cost would be extremely low and wouldn't even pay for staff salaries. After much watching on the WTS forums, I have seen researched frigate bpo's selling for approximately 10-15 million isk each. Assuming ie a kestrel bpo at around 2.5m, selling it at 10m ensures a healthy 400% profit margin. Obviously, with larger bpo's, the lower profit margin will still give a much higher return. Frigate bpo's take approximately 16 days to mature. I plan on running customer prints until the new bpo's are purchased and will basically deal dividends mainly off customer jobs until the IPO capital can be used to turn a profit (basically 1 month in arrears). Due to this, having the first dividend on 31/08 would be relatively low, however majority of customer's bpo's currently queued will be completed and delivered by that time. At the end of this month, all paid customer bpo's should equal approximately 383 million isk minus 83m in employee salaries. Salaries are at such a high level due to a large portion of a customers bpo's being 1 day jobs, meaning much higher pay from employee's. While this may initially seem like a problem, I was aware of the fact that we would be moving into much longer term bpo's and thought it only fair to allow the very short term bpo's to run at a very low profit, as this ensures employee morale and longetivity with the corporation. Either way, this wont be possible in the future, I will likely change the customer's charge to ie a 1 million isk minimum charge per bpo, so those 1 day bpo's still turn a decent profit. So assuming a 300 million isk dividend payment at the end of this month, this would give a 3% ROI for only a half month without having the capital available. Assuming I run and am able to sell 50 NPC ship bpo's per month, using my pre-selected selection, the dividend payout would be 1.364 billion isk, meaning a 13.6% ROI. Remember, that ROI is only considering just over half of the POS's abilities, and not taking any customer orders into account. The 13.6% ROI doesn't include salaries or POS upkeep costs. These would likely drop the ROI closer to 11%. Please feel free to ask any questions you like guys. I feel that I have done a ton of research on this (no pun intended) but if I have missed anything, I am happy to explain it better, or improve the corporation for current and future shareholders. Insured Research and Production Services
Marodi Carpentine	Posted - 2006.08.14 16:45:00 - [19] I'd like to reserve 2000 shares.
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2006.08.14 16:56:00 - [20] Originally by: Ricdic Thanks for your post. The numbers won't add up no matter how many times you try to calculate them. We purchased expecting to anchor two towers. However we then found that labs dont need to be onlined in order to work remotely. Therefore we decided that until this is all fixed up, we will run one tower to save on fuel costs. That is why we have more labs in use than is hypothetically possible. Congratulations, you are trying to profit from an exploit. Well, It's been nice knowing you. Be sure to send a postcard from Doomheim.
Nub	Posted - 2006.08.14 17:28:00 - [21] The location of his POS is Bawilan V - Moon 1 Not only is he using labs in an offline state, he's trying to mount a full deathstar defense on top of that.
Funky Witherbean	Posted - 2006.08.14 17:40:00 - [22] Originally by: voogru Congratulations, you are trying to profit from an exploit. Well, It's been nice knowing you. Be sure to send a postcard from Doomheim. As long as the costs are factored into his price, then it is his customers who profit from the bug- not him. I don't know if setting up expensive research when there was a much cheaper way to go would be competitive or not.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.14 22:52:00 - [23] Originally by: Nub The location of his POS is Bawilan V - Moon 1 Not only is he using labs in an offline state, he's trying to mount a full deathstar defense on top of that. Firstly, if you wanted the location, you only had to look at my other posts on the matter, or simply ask. Secondly, a few guns is hardly a deathstar defence. But thanks for your interest. Unless someone can provide linkage to confirm that this is an exploit, or someone from CCP can confirm it, as far as I am concerned it is no different to logging off when in warp to a camped gate. Or any of the other things in game that can be done. Until this confirmation is given, everything will continue as normal. Insured Research and Production Services
Proton Power Power Corrupts Trading Inc	Posted - 2006.08.14 23:07:00 - [24] I have a job for you if you would like it. Not sure where else to post it sorry. I would like 2 sets of every t2 componet bpo researched to ME10 PE10. I need them all other than Reactors. Eve Mail me a quote if you can please. Thanks. ----------------------------------------------- Keep the Game Rolling.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.14 23:34:00 - [25] Originally by: Proton Power I have a job for you if you would like it. Not sure where else to post it sorry. I would like 2 sets of every t2 componet bpo researched to ME10 PE10. I need them all other than Reactors. Eve Mail me a quote if you can please. Thanks. Hi Proton, we can handle this request no problem. Could you please evemail me in-game or convo so we can organise details etc. Cheers Ricdic Insured Research and Production Services
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2006.08.15 07:25:00 - [26] Originally by: Ricdic But thanks for your interest. Unless someone can provide linkage to confirm that this is an exploit, or someone from CCP can confirm it, as far as I am concerned it is no different to logging off when in warp to a camped gate. Or any of the other things in game that can be done. Until this confirmation is given, everything will continue as normal. FFS, Just because there isn't a "LINK" saying it's an exploit, doesnt mean it's not an exploit. Are you really that shallow? The Research Labs take up powergrid and CPU for a REASON. If there is a way to use them without them taking up CPU or powergrid, that's called an exploit. You even admitted yourself, that it's a bug. What do we call it when we abuse a bug? Ah ha, exploiting. Logging off in combat isn't a bug, nor an exploit. CCP can't control when you log in or off. That's a horrible comparison to what your doing.
Ricdics Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.15 08:54:00 - [27] Originally by: voogru Originally by: Ricdic But thanks for your interest. Unless someone can provide linkage to confirm that this is an exploit, or someone from CCP can confirm it, as far as I am concerned it is no different to logging off when in warp to a camped gate. Or any of the other things in game that can be done. Until this confirmation is given, everything will continue as normal. FFS, Just because there isn't a "LINK" saying it's an exploit, doesnt mean it's not an exploit. Are you really that shallow? The Research Labs take up powergrid and CPU for a REASON. If there is a way to use them without them taking up CPU or powergrid, that's called an exploit. You even admitted yourself, that it's a bug. What do we call it when we abuse a bug? Ah ha, exploiting. Logging off in combat isn't a bug, nor an exploit. CCP can't control when you log in or off. That's a horrible comparison to what your doing. I have submitted my own petition regarding this matter, as I am not out to break any rules that can get me into trouble. The fact is that there are a ton of things in Eve that people can/will do and have been doing without any intervention from CCP/DEVs. Even the same thing as me, check the station and starbases forum. On the first 5 pages alone you will see at least 5 references to them being used in the same fashion. So if others are doing it without any repercussions, or intervention, how can it be considered an exploit? As you said in-game, the devs admitted it was an exploit back in february (which i still havent seen proof of). My question. Why hasnt it been fixed if it is a bug that ccp don't want us to use? A single dev/isd/gm etc either convo'ing me, sending me an evemail, responding to my petition, or posting in here will be more than enough for me to remove the extra labs. Until that time, I don't see why I need to punish myself while there are likely hundreds of others doing the same thing with zero repercussions. And for the record, Mobile Lab's do need to be online when researching/copying locally. It is quite possible that the design of them is to allow remote researching to not require them to be online. Unlikely, but possible. Does anyone know if remote production without onlining the modules is possible as well? If so, it may be more of a design rather than a bug. Would make sense as to why people have been doing it for 6 months + without it being changed as well. Insured Research and Production Services Queues
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.16 06:25:00 - [28] Ok guys, shares have been created and distributed to those who got in. All bar one reservation has been met with payment. 24 hours remain for the person to claim his reservation. If not claimed within those 24 hours, a total of 178,400 shares will be made public again. There will be no further reservations, after the 24 hour period it will basically be the first person/people to contact me in game will get them. I am sure he will meet the reservation. But if not, the above applies. Kind Regards, keep an eye on my blog, it will get some additions in a few hours. Insured Research and Production Services
DeODokktor Caldari Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2006.08.16 07:33:00 - [29] So all of the people using your labs are at risk of having those lab jobs killed and the prints going poof. Are you going to be replacing those prints if ccp do that? I rekon not as you'll hopefully get a ban for this. ---- WTB Aurora S bpo - Evemail me in game.. Scammed by "Not Superman" AKA "Nyphur" Then go visit the link
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.16 07:56:00 - [30] Originally by: DeODokktor So all of the people using your labs are at risk of having those lab jobs killed and the prints going poof. Blueprints are being researched remotely from an NPC station. This means it is impossible for the prints to go 'poof' Quote: Are you going to be replacing those prints if ccp do that? Read above Quote: I rekon not as you'll hopefully get a ban for this. Please Read my above statements and then reply when you actually understand them. Anyway CCP haven't said this is a bug, therefore I cannot be exploiting. I have scoured all the bug/patch notes I can find and haven't found this come up once. As I said above, should I be given advice from someone who can give an accurate answer (GM/DEV/ISD etc) I shall act accordingly. However, thank you for your concerns, and have a nice day. Insured Research and Production Services
DeODokktor Caldari Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2006.08.16 08:20:00 - [31] Well, you said yourself that until ccp fix this you would do it this way. That's an admission that you know somethings wrong, and TBH when you realise you can put 1000 lab modules on 1 pos with them working like normal then you should see something is wrong. I hope they ban the guy's who are really exploiting this, as I offer the same service but I have to figgure in fuel (you cant say it's the same fuel as my cpu and grid suck up fuel). I have confirm'd this is a bug in the past and the gm's have asked for the information to not be spread. I guess a unpublished bug that can see your pos go poof is okay for me to use since it's not posted in the forums by a dev? ---- WTB Aurora S bpo - Evemail me in game.. Scammed by "Not Superman" AKA "Nyphur" Then go visit the link
Lt Widowmaker	Posted - 2006.08.16 11:55:00 - [32] Edited by: Lt Widowmaker on 16/08/2006 11:55:17 so he is using a bug to run this IPO that may or may not get hem baned. but when CCP fix's the bug, and he can only run 15 and no more, then how is he going to grow becouse right now with that many alts in his corp there is no way he can. So he has no room to grow, so the investors will only get a MAX amount of isk per month and no more.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.16 12:39:00 - [33] Originally by: Lt Widowmaker So he has no room to grow, so the investors will only get a MAX amount of isk per month and no more. Well I guess you are lucky you didn't invest then. Thank you for your time Insured Research and Production Services
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.16 12:49:00 - [34] Originally by: DeODokktor Well, you said yourself that until ccp fix this you would do it this way. That's an admission that you know somethings wrong, and TBH when you realise you can put 1000 lab modules on 1 pos with them working like normal then you should see something is wrong. Yes I believe it may be a bug. However I don't know this. Neither does anyone else. If you as you said, have spoken to a GM about this, I would like you to email the chatlog/petition text to me at [email protected]. Once I see this, and it is legit, I will remove excess labs from my POS. However, just saying that you have spoken to someone and they said it was wrong, isn't going to cut it. Quote: I have confirm'd this is a bug in the past and the gm's have asked for the information to not be spread. Out of curiosity, how far in the past did you have this confirmed? And surely seeing as you have gone to the effort to find my thread and post your GM results, you can use www.eve-search.com to locate the other 10+ threads with people all saying they are doing exactly the same thing? Or you could fly around to the hundreds of other POS's doing the same thing. Fact is that i haven't seen notice of this being a bug, what I have seen is this being the norm for POS operations. Hell, I have been informed that another IPO PRIG are doing the exact same thing. So why are we singling me out as being this amazing exploiter, when your corp is likely doing the same thing. Quote: I guess a unpublished bug that can see your pos go poof is okay for me to use since it's not posted in the forums by a dev? Well, if GM's decide to 'poof' my POS without prior explanation of their actions etc, then I will be very annoyed. It would be understandable for them to stop the research, or give a timeframe that this must be fixed. But anything like you are suggesting would just be wrong, and would guarantee my petitions bouncing through. In the event that this did happen, and they destroyed X billions worth of my belongings, if petitions didn't fix the problems, I would repay investors and close my 4 accounts. Time will tell. As people who aren't investing and have zero plans on investing, I ask that trolling be taken back to crime and punishment forums. I understand constructive critisism but "your pos is going poof" is a simple waste of space. This wasnt directly related to your post De0. Insured Research and Production Services
DeODokktor Caldari Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2006.08.16 13:28:00 - [35] If you feel I am trolling then please report it to isd. For isd's wishing to remove this post then I suggest they actually just lock the thread as there's a strong support of "I will use this bug because ccp doesnt have public details of it posted". ---- WTB Aurora S bpo - Evemail me in game.. Scammed by "Not Superman" AKA "Nyphur" Then go visit the link
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.16 14:03:00 - [36] As soon as my petition in exploits has been answered, I will act accordingly. I don't see how this is so hard to understand??? You guys coming on here blaming me for doing this and that, when I am actively checking to make sure it is all legit. That is why I called it trolling, initially, it was brought to my attention that this may be an exploit. Since then, it has just been blaming and "hoping I get my account banned" and crap like that. Insured Research and Production Services
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.16 16:39:00 - [37] Ok guys, my petition has been answered. I have been informed that this is a bug, therefore exploit. The GM thanked me for 'dobbing myself in'. I requested that we be given some time for current jobs to finish, standings to adjust etc so we can ie construct a second POS etc. The GM accepted this request and has allowed us to fix this up of our own accord. He also advised that they would be looking to fix this in the next patch. Therefore over the next week or two, CRA will be sending up a vote to determine whether a small portion of the capital raised should go towards a second POS, or whether we should restrict operations to one. To those who advised me that this was/might be an exploit, I extend my gratitude. When putting these up, the thought never crossed my mind. Only when you guys started talking about it, I got to thinking that you may be correct. I think a lot of the comments were too harsh, but I will thank the fact that I was informed before GM intervention may have happened. I also extend thanks to the GM involved as he didn't need to give us that leeway to re-organise our operations, but chose to anyway. I will update the blog-site with further information in regards to short term planning as it becomes available. Kind Regards Ricdic Insured Research and Production Services
Serania Lai'Daigano	Posted - 2006.08.16 17:02:00 - [38] I praise your decision Ricdic. It was the honorable and right thing to do for your IPO.
Kenz Rider	Posted - 2006.08.16 18:33:00 - [39] Just as a pre-amble, you are completely free to run your operation as you see fit, but here are some financial suggestions. These are not criticisms. On day one, when you contributed 5 billion of capital to the corporation, you owned 100% of the corporate stock. To effect the IPO, you would have issued an additional number of shares (amount unimportant). Post-IPO you would personally have 50% of the company and the other investors would have had 50% of the company. However, you say the corporation owns 40% of the shares, but this doesn't make sense based on your contributions. Stepping aside from the above point for a minute, when the corporation 'owns' its own shares, they are considered to be retired, and therefore do not exist in an economic sense. You should state instead that out of 60 shares, 10 are owned by you and 50 are owned by the public, giving you 16.6% of the company.
Naphtalia Millennium E.R.A	Posted - 2006.08.16 20:16:00 - [40] Often when founding a corporation with your own cash the corporation borrows cash from you. Scenarios: Scenario A: 1) Player x has 5bil isk. 2) Player x starts up Corp X and hires himself as the CEO 3) Player x buys 10% of the shares of Corp X for 1bil 4) Player x loans 4b isk to the Corp. 5) Corp sells 50% of shares to the public for 5b 6) Corp keeps 40% of the shares 7) Corp pays Salary to the CEO In this scenario: Corp assets: 10b isk (4b shares) Corp liabilities: 4b loan 6b investor equity (4b shares) Profit: Capital + Labour = Return on 10b capital Loss: Salary (Price of Labour) Interest on 4b (Price of Capital) Principle payments on 4b loan (Reinvestment) Profits paid as dividends to 6b investor equity (Price of Capital) Income for CEO: Dividends on 1b equity Salary Interest on 4b Loan Scenario B: 1) Player x has 5bil isk. 2) Player x starts up Corp X and hires himself as the CEO 3) Player x buys 10% of the shares of Corp X for 1bil 4) Player x donates 4b isk to the Corp. 5) Corp sells 50% of shares to the public for 5b 6) Corp keeps 40% of the shares 7) Corp pays Salary to the CEO Corp assets: 10b isk (4b shares) Corp liabilities: 6b investor equity (4b shares) (note here that the corporation has increased 60% in value immediately) Profit: Capital + Labour = Return on 10b capital Loss: Salary (Price of Labour) Profits paid as dividends to 6b investor equity Income for CEO: Dividends on 1b equity Salary Scenario C: 1) Player x has 5bil isk. 2) Player x starts up Corp X and hires himself as the CEO 3) Player x buys 10% of the shares of Corp X for 1bil 4) Corp X borrows of 4b isk of a Bank. 5) Corp sells 50% of shares to the public for 5b 6) Corp keeps 40% of the shares 7) Corp pays Salary to the CEO In this scenario: Corp assets: 10b isk (4b shares) Corp liabilities: 4b loan 6b investor equity (4b shares) Profit: Capital + Labour = Return on 10b capital Loss: Salary (Price of Labour) Interest on 4b (Price of Capital) Principle payments on 4b loan (Reinvestment) Profits paid as dividends to 6b investor equity (Price of Capital) Income for CEO: Dividends on 1b equity Salary In Scenario A-C shares in corp wallet have no economic value and aren't used to pay dividends unless an SMO happens, corps like OT-TS and ESINV use this model. Scenario D: Same of Scenario A & C but with different accounting method (EMFi used this) to count shares in wallet. Corp assets: 10b isk + 4b Shares in Corp X Corp liabilities: 4b loan + 10b investor equity Profit: Return on 10b capital Dividends from 4b shares in Corp X Rise of Shareprice on 4b shares in Corp X Loss: Salary (Price of Labour) Interest on 4b (Price of Capital) Principle payments on 4b loan (Reinvestment) Profits paid as dividends to 10b investor equity (Price of Capital) I am interested which of the models A-C (or any of the Scenario D variants) RicDic is using.
EMFi Manager EvE Mutual Fund Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.16 20:32:00 - [41] Edited by: EMFi Manager on 16/08/2006 20:33:15 Originally by: Kenz Rider On day one, when you contributed 5 billion of capital to the corporation, you owned 100% of the corporate stock. Depends which law/corporate model you use. EvE uses the english word "Corporation" which means it is a legal entity by itself and it "owns" its own stock. Quote: A body that is granted a charter recognizing it as a separate legal entity having its own rights, privileges, and liabilities distinct from those of its members. As the CEO and Founder and Only employee, of course you could decide to sell all stock to yourself for 0.1 isk, and then sell each share for 100mil on open market. However the Capital raised in that manner will be owned by you and not "the corporation" also: Quote: A corporation has the ability to raise capital by selling stock to the public. This is of course if we use the word corporation to define the legal for of a eve-corporation. Quote: organizations that may carry out activities that are generally considered to be business exist under the laws of various countries. These include: Franchising Partnership Limited partnership (LP) Limited liability partnership (LLP) Limited liability company (LLC) Limited company (Ltd.) Not-for-profit corporation Sole proprietorship Trust company, Trust (law) USA, Trust (law) non-USA Anyways.. to conclude this: a Corporation is an entity (a non-natural person) that can own stuff, be sued, and be held liable. In priciple it owns its own stock unless he sells it for capital (or gives it away for free) Alt of Naphtalia Visit my investment site
Lt Widowmaker	Posted - 2006.08.16 22:40:00 - [42] Originally by: Ricdic Ok guys, my petition has been answered. I have been informed that this is a bug, therefore exploit. The GM thanked me for 'dobbing myself in'. I requested that we be given some time for current jobs to finish, standings to adjust etc so we can ie construct a second POS etc. The GM accepted this request and has allowed us to fix this up of our own accord. He also advised that they would be looking to fix this in the next patch. Therefore over the next week or two, CRA will be sending up a vote to determine whether a small portion of the capital raised should go towards a second POS, or whether we should restrict operations to one. To those who advised me that this was/might be an exploit, I extend my gratitude. When putting these up, the thought never crossed my mind. Only when you guys started talking about it, I got to thinking that you may be correct. I think a lot of the comments were too harsh, but I will thank the fact that I was informed before GM intervention may have happened. I also extend thanks to the GM involved as he didn't need to give us that leeway to re-organise our operations, but chose to anyway. I will update the blog-site with further information in regards to short term planning as it becomes available. Kind Regards Ricdic Your forgetting something, becasue you let so many alts into your corp there is no way you can get standing high enought to put a pos up in safe space. You mean your going to put it up in a 0.3 system, and tell everyone to move there blueprints there?
Treelox Amarr Storm Industries	Posted - 2006.08.16 23:42:00 - [43] widow maker, pos is already up and functioning in high sec. The alts that do the research are not allowed to have any standings at all. Since they have no standing, only ric's main, which is the ceo, comes into play for the factional standings. Want to join the Storm?
Lt Widowmaker	Posted - 2006.08.17 01:36:00 - [44] but he said he going to put up a 2nd, I was just wanting to know how if his standing isnt high enought anymore becouse of the alts.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.17 02:09:00 - [45] Originally by: Lt Widowmaker but he said he going to put up a 2nd, I was just wanting to know how if his standing isnt high enought anymore becouse of the alts. You are somewhat correct. Out of the 30 odd players in my corporation, only this character, and my second main Ricdics have standings towards the Gallente Federation. Ricdic has approx faction standings of 6.8. Ricdics has basically 0.5 faction standings. So when the average is determined between both characters, Ricdics is obviously letting the team down. Therefore for the moment whilst we finish a t2 components job (which he is one of the few that can handle) I am hammering out missions to being to increase the corp faction standing on Ricdics. Once this work is complete (Approx 2 days), Ricdics will likely leave the corporation for a week or so, until standings are back up and the second POS is deployed. There are a few other possible alternatives, which I have been speaking to a few people in-game about, but we need to do some research before they come into fruition. (ie joining an alliance, having ricdics start a placeholder corp in the alliance and use the labs through alliance tab, until standings increase.) This will be decided shortly. To answer your previous question. We will be placing the second tower in the same 0.5 again. There is zero option of it being placed in low-sec. Cheers Insured Research and Production Services
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.17 03:23:00 - [46] Due to reservations not met, I am relisting 178,400 shares. Now, in order to give everyone a fair chance to get ready for these (as a lot were annoyed due to me only catering for OZ time zone), the shares will go live directly after the next downtime. The first person/people to send funds after downtime will get the shares. So basically, the faster you log on, the faster you get them. This should be quite amusing. Anyone who sends funds after no more shares remains, will be sent their isk back. Remember guys, when sending your funds, make sure to send an evemail as well. May the best man/men/woman/women win :) Insured Research and Production Services
Salazar N'terre Caldari Intergalactic Combined Technologies	Posted - 2006.08.17 04:09:00 - [47] damn and here I was thinkin their would be an employee option stock plan later on! "People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do." "Laugh and EVE laughs with you. Cry and EVE laughs louder." -Anonymous
Proton Power Power Corrupts Trading Inc	Posted - 2006.08.17 04:36:00 - [48] 1. As per the exploit. Who cares. ATM CCP does nothing about it so leave it be. 2. As per his IPO. If its a scam then its a scam, but I am tired of every IPO out there getting crushed. Let the guy be and do what he needs to do. I still get asked daily if I am a scam, and get accused of things that have nothing to do with me. 3. I can verify he is working on a job only he can do atm, since the job is for me, which I paid for upfront. I dont think he is starting this as a scam, but to be honest, keep accusing him and he will probably walk. ----------------------------------------------- Keep the Game Rolling.
DeODokktor Caldari Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2006.08.17 11:16:00 - [49] Originally by: Proton Power 1. As per the exploit. Who cares. ATM CCP does nothing about it so leave it be. No, This is wrong. If you find a shedload of offline labs at a pos you should petition it so it's known. GM's will contact the owner and tell them they shouldnt be doing such a thing. I am glad to see that yet another person is supporting bug usage however, it says a lot about you guys.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.17 11:37:00 - [50] Good luck guys, these shares will become available any time in the next 20-30 minutes. I have been contacted by a few big players already so if you want to get in there, I suggest you don't delay. I look forward to the frantic flashing of my wallet upon entrance back into Eve after downtime. I will post as soon as all shares are sold, and transfer excess payments back to their rightfull owners. Cheers and good luck all Insured Research and Production Services
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.17 12:01:00 - [51] ok guys, I have recieved more isk than there are shares, so please stop sending funds through. I will begin processing now, and will evemail the lucky ones who got through. For those that didn't you will also be evemailed and funds sent back. Please stop sending me your money :) Insured Research and Production Services
Kasia Pelarar	Posted - 2006.08.17 12:43:00 - [52] Edited by: Kasia Pelarar on 17/08/2006 12:44:59 My first post and it is an apology. Sorry, sent the money for shares before checking here. Now, if anyone wants to send me money, for no reason, I will not say anything, well, maybe a thank you. KP (not nuts!) Kasia Pelarar is also Kaylanar Ortan (edit) Missing word
Kenz Rider	Posted - 2006.08.17 17:48:00 - [53] I can see one of the problems here is how we account for "company-owned" shares. In reality, the company does not own the shares in the sense that a shareholder owns the shares. They are simply not counted in the ownership structure at all, at least in real life. Let me re-write scenario a for you using the proper accounting: Your way: Scenario A: 1) Player x has 5bil isk. 2) Player x starts up Corp X and hires himself as the CEO 3) Player x buys 10% of the shares of Corp X for 1bil 4) Player x loans 4b isk to the Corp. 5) Corp sells 50% of shares to the public for 5b 6) Corp keeps 40% of the shares 7) Corp pays Salary to the CEO Reality: 1. dic starts the corp (its 100% his) 2. dic makes a capital contribution of 1b (it's still 100% his) 3. dic loans the corporation 4b (in rl this would be very difficult to get away with, it would likely be called equity by the tax autorities)[the corp is still 100% his] 4. corp creates and issues shares to effect the desired distribution of ownership, in this case it seems the distribution is 5 public shares for every 1 dic share.(dic now owns 16.6% and 83.3% is owned by the public)
Kenz Rider	Posted - 2006.08.17 17:52:00 - [54] Edited by: Kenz Rider on 17/08/2006 17:55:30 Originally by: EMFi Manager Anyways.. to conclude this: a Corporation is an entity (a non-natural person) that can own stuff, be sued, and be held liable. In priciple it owns its own stock unless he sells it for capital (or gives it away for free) Sorry, this is completely wrong. A corporation cannot own itself. A corporation always has a third-party owner, that can be another corporation or a natural person.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.17 18:20:00 - [55] Hi Kenz, I spoke to EMFi in-game, and he explained to me how it comes across as confusing, ie me not explaining the scenario correctly. I tried explaining what I was trying to achieve with him, and he has advised he will post in here to explain it in business terms. I know my idea is sound, at least in terms of making money for my shareholders, however the corporate details etc are fuzzy. Initially, I was happy to just give the 4b to the corporation, however EMFi has explained this to me a little better. Once he makes his post, if it still doesnt clear things up, I will try to explain it myself trying to make it as clear as possible. I guess I could have easily gone with some huge amount of isk required, and brought home dividends on that. However, due to my limited knowledge in the IPO area, I am still learning so please bear with me. I have advised EMFi and am happy to stand by this. Once his post is made, which explains things better, if anyone feels they have been misled in any way, I will buy back their shares at IPO price, and re-issue them to the public at the same price who can then make their own decisions based on the new information in this thread. I am not trying to mislead anyone, however it is quite obvious that I am unaware of a lot of the fineprint. Kind Regards guys, Ricdic Insured Research and Production Services
EMFi Manager EvE Mutual Fund Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.17 19:35:00 - [56] Originally by: Kenz Rider Sorry, this is completely wrong. A corporation cannot own itself. A corporation always has a third-party owner, that can be another corporation or a natural person. Well this is the difference between a Corporation (as defined by a Corporate Charter) and any of the other business forms (LTD. etc). In general your description is sound, however that is not what really happened, since I know what really happened I assumed some steps :) Alt of Naphtalia Visit my investment site
EMFi Manager EvE Mutual Fund Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.17 19:51:00 - [57] Edited by: EMFi Manager on 17/08/2006 19:51:02 as requested by RicDic, explanation of the Corporate structure of C-R-A and example reports. The truth behind C-R-A. Process: 1) RicDic has loaned 5b isk from a bank (personal liability) 2) RicDic starts up C-R-A 3) C-R-A starts hiring staff (researchers and CEO) 3) RicDic buys 50% of the shares of C-R-A for 5bil 4) Corp sells 50% of shares to the public for 5bil 5) RicDic promisses to donate to the bank dividends he gets over the 40% stake in excess of 500mil each month for reinvestment. (on 5: dividends on 1b equity will always be kept by RicDic, dividends on 4b equity will be used to pay of the personal loan RicDic has with the bank, any dividends in excess of the bank payments will be donated to C-R-A for corporate growth. If the loan is ever paid back or voided RicDic will still give monthly donations to C-R-A but may more more then just what is received in excess of 500m) C-R-A Balance: Assets: Towers and Equipment Pos Fuel Reserves BPO's to Research Corporate wallet ISK in Clients hands as Colleteral ------------------ total: 10bil Liabilities: 10bil shareholder equity C-R-A Profit/Loss: Operational Profit: Income from Research Services Income from BPO Reselling Non-Operational Profit: Donations from CEO Loss: Consumed POS Fuel Salary to research staff (per job) (extras such as brokerfees and cscp charges) Conclusion I would like to see the Donations from the CEO take a mandatory Character (voluntary contract which could be added to balancesheet) or I would like to advise the shareholders not to take the donations and corpgrowth into account when deciding how much they would like to pay for shares. RicDic admitted that if he would sell part of his 50% equity he would consider the revenue from those sales as personal profit and personal capital. Since RicDic is a major shareholder, corporate growth is in his interest and it is likely he will reinvest into C-R-A whatever he wants.. However nothing is stopping him to become his own client (purchase 1b in Blueprints to resell instead of donating 1bil to C-R-A to purchase the same blueprint. I hope I explained the structure of C-R-A for everyone to understand. Alt of Naphtalia Visit my investment site
Kenz Rider	Posted - 2006.08.17 20:13:00 - [58] Originally by: Ricdic Hi Kenz, I spoke to EMFi in-game, and he explained to me how it comes across as confusing, ie me not explaining the scenario correctly. I tried explaining what I was trying to achieve with him, and he has advised he will post in here to explain it in business terms. I know my idea is sound, at least in terms of making money for my shareholders, however the corporate details etc are fuzzy. Initially, I was happy to just give the 4b to the corporation, however EMFi has explained this to me a little better. Once he makes his post, if it still doesnt clear things up, I will try to explain it myself trying to make it as clear as possible. I guess I could have easily gone with some huge amount of isk required, and brought home dividends on that. However, due to my limited knowledge in the IPO area, I am still learning so please bear with me. I have advised EMFi and am happy to stand by this. Once his post is made, which explains things better, if anyone feels they have been misled in any way, I will buy back their shares at IPO price, and re-issue them to the public at the same price who can then make their own decisions based on the new information in this thread. I am not trying to mislead anyone, however it is quite obvious that I am unaware of a lot of the fineprint. Kind Regards guys, Ricdic Actaully I was stating this for your benefit, because it seems you gave away more of the Company than you intended.

Tirg Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2006.08.18 04:20:00 - [59] Thread has been given a good scrubbing. Please don't discuss exploits on the forums. If you have any questions, feel free to email us at [email protected].

Lt Widowmaker	Posted - 2006.08.19 12:31:00 - [60] Hi there I did the math and I just dont see anyway for you to put up a 2nd pos with your corp. it will take 20 people, with a 9.0 standing to get the 5.0 your needing for the corp your size. Here is something you could do. Making your own allance, send one of your chars to it to make the corp put up a pos, then use one corp for bus class reserch and one for norm reserch. and if you need more pos's just start up a 3rd corp have it join your allance and so on and so forth. But again this will cost you 1bil to make the allance (+ about 20 days training if you dont have teh skills) + concord fees per month. (not sure how much) But its the only way I see you can do it, and again if you need to do it, its need to config your stuff a little make sure you have that "allow alliance members usage" and your if you other corps in your allance wants to use it you need to set that corp at a +10 (and even then its still buggy, so to be safe set everyone + corp who needs to use it to a +10) But its the only way I seeing you putting up a 2nd pos.
fitzbookworm Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.19 14:02:00 - [61] Originally by: Lt Widowmaker Hi there I did the math and I just dont see anyway for you to put up a 2nd pos with your corp. it will take 20 people, with a 9.0 standing to get the 5.0 your needing for the corp your size. Here is something you could do. Making your own allance, send one of your chars to it to make the corp put up a pos, then use one corp for bus class reserch and one for norm reserch. and if you need more pos's just start up a 3rd corp have it join your allance and so on and so forth. But again this will cost you 1bil to make the allance (+ about 20 days training if you dont have teh skills) + concord fees per month. (not sure how much) But its the only way I see you can do it, and again if you need to do it, its need to config your stuff a little make sure you have that "allow alliance members usage" and your if you other corps in your allance wants to use it you need to set that corp at a +10 (and even then its still buggy, so to be safe set everyone + corp who needs to use it to a +10) But its the only way I seeing you putting up a 2nd pos. Thanks for looking at the maths on that one. I think there may be one thing that you are forgetting or are not aware of. If an alt character (like this one) has no standings at all (not 0.00 standing, but literally no listing), they do not affect corp standings one way or the other. They just don't come into the equation. We are working on a way to solve the problem right now of the very few toons that are in the corporation that do have standings with the Gallente Federation. ================================================= Associate Manager, CRA
Fitzmaurice Wildly Unsuccessful Pacifists	Posted - 2006.08.19 14:04:00 - [62] I confirm that fitzbookworm is me, and that the avatar is rather more attractive than the ! would have you believe.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.19 15:12:00 - [63] From everything I have read on the matter, Fitz is completely correct, and this is the very reason I hired only alt contractors. After doing a thorough check, the only people with standings are this character (8.0) and Ricdics (0.01). Ricdics has removed roles and is awaiting removal from the corp. As soon as he is removed, the standings should begin to rise, and once they are at the correct level, the second POS can be constructed. I have toyed on the idea of joining an alliance, and spoken in-game to someone about it, both for a war blanket and the ability to have standings not constantly hindering the corporation. I hope this clears things up, let's just hope that the information I have read (from roughly 5-6 sources) saying that 0.00 characters don't affect the average, is correct. If it doesn't change, I will place a petition to confirm this, and worse case scenario, create a placeholder corporation inside an alliance for work to continue whilst Ricdic man's the corp alone to get those standings back up. Thanks for the constructive post. I apologise for not answering this in my sales thread, as at the time I believed you were trolling it. Apologies. Insured Research and Production Services
Ricdics Corporate Placement Holding	Posted - 2006.08.22 07:49:00 - [64] Hello everyone, I have put a lot more information on my blog for investors and future investors to read. Please have a look and let me know if you have any questions whatsoever and I will answer them asap. Here she is, hope you like reading Kind Regards, Ricdic/s Insured Research and Production Services Queues
Erfnam Time Cube Syndicate Daikoku Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.23 11:48:00 - [65] In case anyone has doubts, I have used [C-R-A]'s services for over a dozen BPOs thus far. They have done in a week, research that would have taken me almost a month. I trust him enough to have allowed him to join Daikoku Trade Syndicate. Recruiting Casino - Monitor Thread
EMFI Auditor Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.23 12:17:00 - [66] RicDics Would like to order: Iteron and Medium Pulse Laser BPO researched, biz class. thx ------------------------------------------ "The only thing I am gonna argue with alts is wether I should argue with alts." -- Naphtalia 2006
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.08.23 15:19:00 - [67] Originally by: EMFI Auditor RicDics Would like to order: Iteron and Medium Pulse Laser BPO researched, biz class. thx There are 5 different Iteron BPO's. Your post would lead me to believe you want an Iteron MK I BPO, but would prefer clarification. Either post here or in-game, and we can get started on that right away. Thanks for the kind words Erfnam Insured Research and Production Services
JP Moregain Gallente Moregain Guaranty Trust	Posted - 2006.08.23 17:47:00 - [68] Edited by: JP Moregain on 23/08/2006 17:49:34 Originally by: EMFi Manager Originally by: Kenz Rider Sorry, this is completely wrong. A corporation cannot own itself. A corporation always has a third-party owner, that can be another corporation or a natural person. Well this is the difference between a Corporation (as defined by a Corporate Charter) and any of the other business forms (LTD. etc). In general your description is sound, however that is not what really happened, since I know what really happened I assumed some steps :) Actually you are both right, but this appears to be a semantics problem. A corporation can HOLD its owns shares (=treasury shares). However treasury shares are not an asset, they are a contra-equity account, which is netted against equity for whatever the corp. paid for them, which possibly equals zero if they were never issued. They can create an asset if issued for cash. Bottom line is that a corporations shares cannot represent an asset for that same corporation, but can be held for future issuance and should be netted against total shares authorized to come to a net shares outstanding at any point in time. Regards, JP "In JP We Trust, All Others Require Collateral..."
EMFI Auditor Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.08.23 18:13:00 - [69] Originally by: JP Moregain Scenario B appears off to me, if the CEO 'donates' (I am reading as 'gives')the additional $4 billion it is either an equity infusion which requires no shares issued (since he already owns 100%) or a gift that is 100% profit to the corp, which also would increase equity by $4 billion. They both would have the same net effect and would end up having a $5 billion capital base before the outside investors are involved. Am I misunderstanding what you are trying to say here? JP No you are correct, however Scenario B isn't what the corp uses, see one of the later posts where it is explained after a long discussion with Rickie ------------------------------------------ "The only thing I am gonna argue with alts is wether I should argue with alts." -- Naphtalia 2006
Samantha Kensington Gallente	Posted - 2006.09.04 11:20:00 - [70] Gotta say I'm glad this is working out for you Ricdics. You might remember me from the POS channel where I am looking to start my own service in the same manner (abliet MUCH smaller) I was wondering if I could form a small, overflow agreement with your corp. I have a few customers already lined up, however they are already outstripping my demand by over 450%. I wanted to know if it's possible to send players your way. I'm not looking for any kick back, nore am I looking for any compensation in any form. I am just looking for a peaceful co-existance between our two services. As I will have a total of 6 labs, ever, I believe it can work. Let me know if you can, or eve mail me in game. My service will hopefully go live within the next week and I wanted to start sending clients your way if possible. The only thing you should know is that I am contacting ALL the research services equally (as we all seem to be running the same prices) and looking for the same deal. Hopefully that's acceptable. -Sammy
Nariana Verex	Posted - 2006.09.04 23:03:00 - [71] I have to say, this is one of the most impressive, organized business models I've ever seen. I hope you make loads of ISK off these, Ricdic, and in the future you can bet our corporation will be ordering all our BPO research solely from you. :) When we can afford it.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.09.05 03:06:00 - [72] Originally by: Samantha Kensington Gotta say I'm glad this is working out for you Ricdics. You might remember me from the POS channel where I am looking to start my own service in the same manner (abliet MUCH smaller) I was wondering if I could form a small, overflow agreement with your corp. I have a few customers already lined up, however they are already outstripping my demand by over 450%. I wanted to know if it's possible to send players your way. I'm not looking for any kick back, nore am I looking for any compensation in any form. I am just looking for a peaceful co-existance between our two services. As I will have a total of 6 labs, ever, I believe it can work. Let me know if you can, or eve mail me in game. My service will hopefully go live within the next week and I wanted to start sending clients your way if possible. The only thing you should know is that I am contacting ALL the research services equally (as we all seem to be running the same prices) and looking for the same deal. Hopefully that's acceptable. -Sammy Hey Samantha, thanks for the kind words. Throw me an evemail in-game and we can organise decide on a few ways to handle this. Either way, you would be paid in some way for referring us customers, but I am sure we can handle some sort of arrangement. And yes, demand is great, with our 50 researchers all running 4-12 jobs each. Right now the issue is a shortage of labs, so our scheduled expansion should help to solve this issue. Insured Research and Production Services
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.09.05 03:11:00 - [73] Originally by: Nariana Verex I have to say, this is one of the most impressive, organized business models I've ever seen. I hope you make loads of ISK off these, Ricdic, and in the future you can bet our corporation will be ordering all our BPO research solely from you. :) When we can afford it. Thanks for the kind words Nariana. I believe we are doing great as well, and am looking forward to the next couple of weeks when our first IPO bpo's are coming off the line, ready for sale. I will be posting another blog in a few hours with a few updates so keep an eye out Thanks guys Insured Research and Production Services
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd	Posted - 2006.09.09 10:06:00 - [74] Hi guys, I have updated the blog with a ton of new information. Subjects you will find: Click HERE and have a read * E-I-B and how it affects us * Status of current upgrades * IPO Progress Update * C-R-A shares, what are they worth? * Final scam information * Scams and ways to inject customer confidence I am so sorry for the large amounts of writing, I just get so bored at work and want to relay everything to my shareholders. Some may see this as a weakness, but I assure you C-R-A has a lot of fancy goodies in store for investors. Insured Research and Production Services

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