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Pie Napple
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
33
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Posted - 2014.10.12 07:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
There was an discussion on reddit about providing skill plan in the tutorial ( http://goo.gl/HUW5R5 ) and i got an idea.
ISIS is a great way for new players to get into the game and to know what skills to train. It is lacking, however, the bigger picture. It's a huge amount of ships and it can be hard for a new player to get an overview of what ship should be used for what. It also doesn't help players answer the "what do i do now?" question they have directly after the turorials.
I suggest an ISIS-like system, but for careers. Most of us have probably seen this: http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
I'm talking about a tree-like system with masteries, just like ISIS. The leaves should be career-paths and activities that you can do in eve, with the masteries needed for those activities.
The description for the careers should give you a brief introduction to the career. An description of a caldari frig pvp path could tell you that caldari uses shields and missiles and hybrids primarily. They could give you a bigger picture, saying that caldari prefers ECM, that the condor is the fast frigate and that merlin is the brawlier one and so on.
Things that could be in there:
Caldari frigate pvp - Take you through using caldari frigates, with relevant ewar, tackling, navigation, missile and hybrid skills, shield skills all the way to t2 frigates at the higher masteries. Salvaging - description tells you about drones, destroyers with salvagers and noctic. the masteries takes your skills through the destroyer all the way to mastering the noctic. Minmatar cruiser pvp T1 ship manufacturing Research & invention Mining (frigates) Mining (barge) Gas mining Missioning level 1 Missioning level 4 minmatar battleships Missioning level 4 caldari t3 cruiser Highsec exploration Nullsec combat exploration Hauling highsec Freighting highsec (freighter) Freighting nullsec (jump freighter) and so on....
There are a bunch of these that could be one per race. Those can just be variations of the same career 'leaf' in the trees, tabs or whatever.
I think it could be something really good for new players. The masteries are already there. This is just an interface to know which masteries to start working towards. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2871
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Posted - 2014.10.12 07:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Skills already have a description of what they do, a properties tab that says specifically what they do and a "Required For" tab that shows what those skills are used for. That's plenty.
The last thing EVE needs is to reinforce the pigeonhole concept that people come here from themeparks with. If EVE needs to do anything, it needs to somehow better help players to understand the concept of a sandbox and making their own/being someone else's content. |
Pie Napple
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
34
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Posted - 2014.10.12 08:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Skills already have a description of what they do, a properties tab that says specifically what they do and a "Required For" tab that shows what those skills are used for. That's plenty.
The last thing EVE needs is to reinforce the pigeonhole concept that people come here from themeparks with. If EVE needs to do anything, it needs to somehow better help players to understand the concept of a sandbox and making their own/being someone else's content.
There are hundreds of skills. This is aiming to provide overview and introduction.
Do you think the current ISIS is a bad thing too? You can find most of that information if you look at all ships and read their descriptions. Is the tutorial bad too? You can read most of that stuff on eve-uni wiki.
The whole purpose of this is to give new players an idea of how much you can do in the sandbox.
We don't keep new players by new players by completely ignoring them and just throwing them into the deep end of the pool without and direction. Eve is a huge game with a lot to learn and explore. We need to get clear information out there to the new players, in the client.
By having more information in the client we get new players to actually be in the client. When i started playing i probably did 80% reading and 20% actually playing.
Eve already is kind of an themepark for a new player with the tutorials. There are career agents. This is just an extension to this, see it as many many career agents, but without actual tutorials, just information and materies. |
Mharius Skjem
Republic University Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2014.10.12 08:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
I do think that the current isis is a bad thing, I hardly look at it and it only exists to make eve even more noob friendly. Eve used to be a puzzle, a great deal of satisfaction and enjoyment came from unravelling that puzzle, noobs will from now on be denied a large part of that joy, the joy of figuring things out for themselves. A recovering btter vet, -áwith a fresh toon and a determination to like everything that CCP does to Eve... |
Steppa Musana
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
210
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Posted - 2014.10.12 10:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
ISIS is great for those who are ignorant and want to try out new things. If you have a destructive mind, you can be trained into a variety of careers that will allow you to kill others indiscriminately. It's also good for the slightly more passive, who want to play a more command or logistical role, but ultimately remember that ISIS exists in a world based around violence and destruction.
Hey guys. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
510
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Posted - 2014.10.12 11:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Skills already have a description of what they do, a properties tab that says specifically what they do and a "Required For" tab that shows what those skills are used for. That's plenty.
The last thing EVE needs is to reinforce the pigeonhole concept that people come here from themeparks with. If EVE needs to do anything, it needs to somehow better help players to understand the concept of a sandbox and making their own/being someone else's content.
Going to say this.
Pigeon holing has its upsides...and its downsides.
Even see this is op's statement of caldari shield tanks. Not always the case. Have the obvious jam boats who armour tank. However I have seen (non-fail) armour caldari armour frigs as well. Passable armour tank in lows to free up mids for an effect (more tackle/ewar). And as we know...armour ships do this with shield fits.
Minmatar be another one that be contentious. ISIS says thou shall armour tank any ship more lows and than mids. ISIS might also say all frigates must run tackle.
And I have 2 wolf fits types that say not how it goes chief.
Arty wolf I run shield rigs. Other mid is point. Lows damage related and fitting mods.
And I have a fleet spec wolf that runs no tackle. MSE in the other mid. It relies on others to tackle and I come in and take a lead pipe to the target's head so to speak. As lows are all gyro TE for damage/application. Heresy to the frigates tackle crowd but if the stars align just right....real fun ship to run as it does put out some pain. got 10 ships all running tackle...will ship number 11 missing it be end of the world?
Also the (increased) pigeon holing waters down eve to me. Already get it now with vanilla fits that don't diverge from the norm. We only get our variance in limited doses like say AT. There we see check this out, its either gonna crash and burn or throw the other side for a loop. Go back to day to day eve.....hello vanilla. |
Kaerakh
Surprisingly Deep Hole Try Rerolling
445
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Posted - 2014.10.12 14:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
-1 There are no set roles in EVE.
Last thing I want to log in and see is this. Schrodinger's Hot Dropper - The Fate of Forum Alts - Click me! Click me! |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
37
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Posted - 2014.10.12 14:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mharius Skjem wrote:Eve used to be a puzzle, a great deal of satisfaction and enjoyment came from unravelling that puzzle, noobs will from now on be denied a large part of that joy, the joy of figuring things out for themselves. And in real life there are those that are good at puzzles and those that are not. Some like you obviously enjoy having puzzles to solve, there are others that do not. That does not make them bad players or bad for the game it just makes them different than you. So why not extend the current ISIS system to help new players with a small portion of this great big puzzle we all play.
Kaerakh wrote:-1 There are no set roles in EVE. True enough but there are a small and fairly clearly defined set of general areas of game play. I see no downsides to the game as a whole if the ISIS system was extended to include a basic amount of information about these general areas of game play.
People learn in many different ways, some can read and fully understand even the most complex topics, others are more visually oriented essentially needing graphs and charts so they can fully comprehend and understand the information they are being given. ISIS and the proposed system would not replace the information that some here want to read, it simply places that information into a format that is more appropriate for the visual based learners in our midst. You can call it lazy if you want but that only shows your lack of understanding in the how people differ in the ways that they learn and adapting the in game tools to better suit people who learn visually opens up this game to an entire group of potential players that are currenlty excluded to some degree.
So what if ISIS and this new system exists in the game, you are free to use it if you choose, or you can ignore it and figure this puzzle out your own way. Over all I say +1 to the basic idea of the OP. |
Pie Napple
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
39
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Posted - 2014.10.12 18:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
This doesn't solve puzzles. That is not what it is about.
It is about being able to find information easily. Now, you are pretty much forced to google for information about basic information about game mechanics. I want to see more information available in the actual game client.
This is just about presenting the masteries, that are already in there, in more ways and grouping them together. I want to enlighten and inform our newbies, the greatest resource we have in this game. :)
I think that, overall, masteries are underused in the game. They feel even more hidden away than certificates where. You don't even get an notification when you complete a mastery level? That change alone would help make more people aware that the system exists.
Certificates had some roles as certificates, if i remember correctly. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2879
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Posted - 2014.10.12 19:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ytterbium specifically wanted to de-emphasize the perceived importance of certificates during the change to calling them Masteries, That's why they stopped being about activities or professions and instead became an indicator of how well you can fly this or that ship. |
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Pie Napple
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
39
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Posted - 2014.10.12 20:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Ytterbium specifically wanted to de-emphasize the perceived importance of certificates during the change to calling them Masteries, That's why they stopped being about activities or professions and instead became an indicator of how well you can fly this or that ship.
Ok. I don't think they would be too interested in this then. :P
I think its too bad. Certificates were talked about. You were "trying to get the core competency certificate" or were told to "get the armor tanking certificate to at least". You never hear any talk about masteries. I don't even think most third party developers of applications like evemon or vitality have even bothered to implement support for masteries.
I remember thinking certificates was nice when i was a new player. They gave me something to strive for, as a new player. I hope they have more changes planned, involving masteries. |
Kaerakh
Surprisingly Deep Hole Try Rerolling
447
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Posted - 2014.10.12 20:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Pie Napple wrote:...core competency certificate...
And that was really the only certificate of any worth. Schrodinger's Hot Dropper - The Fate of Forum Alts - Click me! Click me! |
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