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Venting ... GTC for isk is bad!

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Lorette Gallente Grandma's WIth Guns	Posted - 2006.08.15 06:10:00 - [31] I dont know what all the fuss is about, all that happens is isk moves from one player to another. Nothing special really
Missy Mai'la	Posted - 2006.08.15 06:16:00 - [32] Edited by: Missy Mai''la on 15/08/2006 06:17:25 Originally by: Lorette I dont know what all the fuss is about, all that happens is isk moves from one player to another. Nothing special really Those that realise that they can profit real cash without fear of being banned will now farm more so than ever before, and will probably stop at nothing to get that isk. When people realise that they can spend 300m isk on a timecode, then sell that timecode for at least ú20, people are going to start farming isk like crazy, buying timecodes of the forums and selling them, as i said a few pages back, imagine some of the t2 bpo owners, imagine khatred and his collection of bpos, he must profit like 10+ billion isk a week of those!! if he bought timecodes at the rate of 300m per 90 day code, he could buy 30+ codes per week, and sell them at a value of ú20+ each, thats over ú600 a week he can make selling timecodes that he bought with only isk ingame!
nahtoh Caldari Bull Industries	Posted - 2006.08.15 06:20:00 - [33] Originally by: Missy Mai'la Edited by: Missy Mai''la on 15/08/2006 06:17:25 Originally by: Lorette I dont know what all the fuss is about, all that happens is isk moves from one player to another. Nothing special really Those that realise that they can profit real cash without fear of being banned will now farm more so than ever before, and will probably stop at nothing to get that isk. When people realise that they can spend 300m isk on a timecode, then sell that timecode for at least ú20, people are going to start farming isk like crazy, buying timecodes of the forums and selling them, as i said a few pages back, imagine some of the t2 bpo owners, imagine khatred and his collection of bpos, he must profit like 10+ billion isk a week of those!! if he bought timecodes at the rate of 300m per 90 day code, he could buy 30+ codes per week, and sell them at a value of ú20+ each, thats over ú600 a week he can make selling timecodes that he bought with only isk ingame! Well it looks like tinfoil hats really do make you more crazy... ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
Missy Mai'la	Posted - 2006.08.15 06:25:00 - [34] Originally by: nahtoh Originally by: Missy Mai'la Edited by: Missy Mai''la on 15/08/2006 06:17:25 Originally by: Lorette I dont know what all the fuss is about, all that happens is isk moves from one player to another. Nothing special really Those that realise that they can profit real cash without fear of being banned will now farm more so than ever before, and will probably stop at nothing to get that isk. When people realise that they can spend 300m isk on a timecode, then sell that timecode for at least ú20, people are going to start farming isk like crazy, buying timecodes of the forums and selling them, as i said a few pages back, imagine some of the t2 bpo owners, imagine khatred and his collection of bpos, he must profit like 10+ billion isk a week of those!! if he bought timecodes at the rate of 300m per 90 day code, he could buy 30+ codes per week, and sell them at a value of ú20+ each, thats over ú600 a week he can make selling timecodes that he bought with only isk ingame! Well it looks like tinfoil hats really do make you more crazy... What are you talking about? This is 100% the truth, if you cant believe it you'd have to be an utter moron. When people can easily increase their earning power by up to a few hundred extra pounds a week, and not have to risk losing their eve account over it, what do you think they are going to do?
Kuolematon Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.08.15 06:34:00 - [35] So by end of this year, supply of GTC's will exceed by far demand of them and we will see prices crashing. 100mil for 90 days, anyone? Unnerf Amarr! "Just because you can utterly ruin another player's game doesn't mean that you must."
nahtoh Caldari Bull Industries	Posted - 2006.08.15 06:48:00 - [36] Originally by: Missy Mai'la Originally by: nahtoh Originally by: Missy Mai'la Edited by: Missy Mai''la on 15/08/2006 06:17:25 Originally by: Lorette I dont know what all the fuss is about, all that happens is isk moves from one player to another. Nothing special really Those that realise that they can profit real cash without fear of being banned will now farm more so than ever before, and will probably stop at nothing to get that isk. When people realise that they can spend 300m isk on a timecode, then sell that timecode for at least ú20, people are going to start farming isk like crazy, buying timecodes of the forums and selling them, as i said a few pages back, imagine some of the t2 bpo owners, imagine khatred and his collection of bpos, he must profit like 10+ billion isk a week of those!! if he bought timecodes at the rate of 300m per 90 day code, he could buy 30+ codes per week, and sell them at a value of ú20+ each, thats over ú600 a week he can make selling timecodes that he bought with only isk ingame! Well it looks like tinfoil hats really do make you more crazy... What are you talking about? This is 100% the truth, if you cant believe it you'd have to be an utter moron. When people can easily increase their earning power by up to a few hundred extra pounds a week, and not have to risk losing their eve account over it, what do you think they are going to do? Some actual proof would go a long fecking way for starters... ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.08.15 06:54:00 - [37] Cheating in any game is ***** lame. GTC's for isk IS cheating, and it should be removed. CCP have stated in the past real life wealth should not affect your progression in the game. And they where right, its a shame as with so many things theyve backpedled in favour of more $$$. Alliaanna** DNC Treasure Hunt !!
spurious signal Caldari Brainiacs	Posted - 2006.08.15 07:18:00 - [38] Edited by: spurious signal on 15/08/2006 07:20:55 This topic will get locked as soon as the mods wake up, CCP do not allow any discussion of this massive change in the way EVE runs. I've emailed [email protected] asking for clarification of this issue since CCP mods and GMs have been contradicting themselves over the last 10 months. For example: 1) Kieron stated in a response to a player thread "We've discussed changing the police on allowing the trade of ISK for Game Time a number of times. For the time being, the policy is going to stay as it is." - November 2005. 2) GM Arkanon posted a long blog attacking real money transfers and saying, among other things, " This issue is not up for discussion. Buying your way ahead in EVE is cheating, pure and simple." - January 2006. 3) Last week (11th August 2006) Ivan Kirilenkov posted in a thread about how to make money "Buying isk is not allowed, and this thread will not be derailed into another GTC-sales thread." - August 2006. As you can see, big contradictions in statements from CCP employees. If I get a response from the mods to my email then I probably won't be allowed to say anything about it here so I suggest, if you care about this issue, that you also email the mods asking for clarification. Once this thread gets locked of course, any minute now. Edit: One of the threads I have linked there is a locked thread, which is generally frowned upon by the mods. Can I point out that the post I have linked to is the exact post that mods always link to when locking GTC threads, describing CCP's position on GTC sales.
nahtoh Caldari Bull Industries	Posted - 2006.08.15 07:19:00 - [39] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Cheating in any game is ***** lame. GTC's for isk IS cheating, and it should be removed. CCP have stated in the past real life wealth should not affect your progression in the game. And they where right, its a shame as with so many things theyve backpedled in favour of more $$$. Alliaanna** Great ban second accounts then...That also comes under the "real life wealth efecting your progression in the game" or explain how it does not... Providing TS servers for ISK could also be added...Hosting for ISK (not sure if thats still allowed, but it used to be). Any out game service for ISK could be considered cheating...with paybycash being so weird lately GTC sellers are providing a service. much like some other services are provided for ISK... ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
Geanina ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.08.15 07:26:00 - [40] I really don`t get it, what the **** are your problems? Play the game! So what if he made billions by selling gtc`s? I really, really don`t care about it. If GTC would not be allowed to sell for isk anymore, Eves comunity will drop. I`m was born in country where 100$ is a lot, i`m still living in that country. I keep my account, my only account, running by buying GTCs with isk and belive there are a lot of ppl like me. Just think a bit, player buys GTC from CCP, money goes to CCP, GTC is bought by another player, the seller happy now, the buyer happy coz he can play the game for another 90 days lets say. Now for us, this ain`t that easy, coz we have to work harder in order to get isk for ships, modules, ammo and in the same time for GTCs so we can play further more. If you want me to be against GTCs sales pay my account. I`m was born in country where 100$ is a lot, i`m still living in that country.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.15 07:56:00 - [41] GTC's for ISK is fine. ISK for GTC's is not. The purchaser of a timecode should never see that code. The seller should have a way of adding the gametime directly to the buyers account. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Missy Mai'la	Posted - 2006.08.15 07:57:00 - [42] Originally by: Avon GTC's for ISK is fine. ISK for GTC's is not. The purchaser of a timecode should never see that code. The seller should have a way of adding the gametime directly to the buyers account. Perhaps each account could be given a special name or id that is used to add gametime, that way you dont have to tell the seller your account name, but a unique id you either made up or were given that is linked to your account and that is the ID the seller adds the time to.
Shannon Kaly	Posted - 2006.08.15 07:57:00 - [43] Edited by: Shannon Kaly on 15/08/2006 08:02:29 Name a single popular MMO where real life money is not traded for in game goods on ebay? Even the largest companies do not have the manpower nor the legal rights to stop this from happening. It happens, there is nothing anyone can do about it. If game time cards for isk was removed from Eve, everyone that got their money from that will simply turn to Ebay and get their isk from there. The existance of GTC for isk is a great system and is the first kind i've seen in an MMO. Stopping it will not stop all the problems you guys complain it causes. A rich player who spends his real life money to obtain in game wealth in order to win a war for example could jsut as easily obtain that conversion through GTC or ebay. If GTC for isk was not available, his methods of obtaining isk for real life money will be less blatant but he certainly will still find a way to do it. Since stopping GTC solves no problems, it makes no sense to repeatedly complain about it because you are essentially complaining about a bigger problem which is out of anyone's control. Many people claim that it is unfair when people use real life wealth to progress in the game. All the ones who do play by paying forgets that they are PAYING to play. This means using real life money, to train skills in the game, and make isk in the game, and PROGRESS in the game with REAL LIFE money. Anyone who has a second account paid for by money is also guilty of claiming an unfair advantage through real life money. Are we suppose to stop all those people too? GTC however DO benefit the community. To truly make it fair, a person who does NOT have the real life wealth to even pay the monthly subscription (As some posters have already mentioned they can not pay for the game if it wasn't for GTC) should have a method of progressing in the game. If a really great potential eve player tried the trial and likes it, and is great at it, but is too poor to pay with real life money to continue progressing, how is that fair? This GTC for isk provides all those people with the means of using their in game skills to continue playing and progressing in the game.
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2006.08.15 08:08:00 - [44] Originally by: Avon GTC's for ISK is fine. ISK for GTC's is not. The purchaser of a timecode should never see that code. The seller should have a way of adding the gametime directly to the buyers account. Would solve the problem quite nicely.
Pepe Prawn	Posted - 2006.08.15 08:09:00 - [45] As long as CCP is making money of the whole GTC for isk thing, They will allow it. Its as simple as that. The whole "china-investment" got to come from some where.
Stephen HB Mystical Knights	Posted - 2006.08.15 12:13:00 - [46] Originally by: Avon GTC's for ISK is fine. ISK for GTC's is not. The purchaser of a timecode should never see that code. The seller should have a way of adding the gametime directly to the buyers account. OMG that's brilliant. I can't believe I've never seen that suggested before. Shouldn't be too hard to code either, although I'm not sure I'd be comfortable bandying my username about.. ---------- Signature core stabiliser II activated. This sig is immune to mod tampering! Rawr! EVE Tracking Guide
James Snowscoran Caldari Coreli Corporation	Posted - 2006.08.15 13:33:00 - [47] Originally by: Avon GTC's for ISK is fine. ISK for GTC's is not. The purchaser of a timecode should never see that code. The seller should have a way of adding the gametime directly to the buyers account. You win forums this month. The idea is brilliant. -----
Boonaki Caldari Suffoco Noctis Atrocitas	Posted - 2006.08.15 13:45:00 - [48] Originally by: James Snowscoran Originally by: Avon GTC's for ISK is fine. ISK for GTC's is not. The purchaser of a timecode should never see that code. The seller should have a way of adding the gametime directly to the buyers account. You win forums this month. The idea is brilliant. Interesting idea, although if I had some extra isk I'd think about buying GTC's with ISK and selling them on ebay. Wonder if anyone is doing that to pay for their trip to Iceland for fanfest. Fear the Ibis of doom!
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.15 14:17:00 - [49] Originally by: Boonaki Interesting idea, although if I had some extra isk I'd think about buying GTC's with ISK and selling them on ebay. Wonder if anyone is doing that to pay for their trip to Iceland for fanfest. Which is exactly why the buyer should never see the code. Buying ISK from other players, in exchange for paying for their gametime, is harmless compared with people farming Eve's resources to make real life money. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2006.08.15 14:22:00 - [50] Originally by: Arian Snow Edited by: Arian Snow on 15/08/2006 02:32:33 Buying Game Time Codes for isk makes no sense at all. All it serves is to undermine the economy in eve, promote farming and macromining and causing inflation! Its plain wrong and it makes no sense whatsoever that CCP allows this, no sense at all! I know thread have been made about this allready, but in my opinion the more the better! NO SENSE I TELL YA' I just bought a 100 day card, how much can I sell it for? I cant be bothered to pirate/npc/mine tbh. For the state for the state for the state
Dr Happy	Posted - 2006.08.15 14:57:00 - [51] Originally by: Missy Mai'la Originally by: Arian Snow Edited by: Arian Snow on 15/08/2006 03:36:48 Again, Dont farmers just get GTC for isk then sell those for $ on Ebay then? ... You dont need alot of isk to stay competetive in Eve.. I am a father of small kiddoes and have a demanding job, and I manage just fine. Indeed, i envy those t2 bpo owners, imagine owning a hulk bpo, 3b profit per week, buy 10x 90 day timecodes from the forums with that 3b, sell the timecodes on ebay for over ú20 each, and there you have it, a profit of over ú200 a week and its endorsed by ccp. In my opinion this will encourage more isk farming also, because many players will see that they can now get real money for there isk by using this buy timecode with isk, sell timecode for real money technique, and not have the worry of being banned by ccp. In the long run, i bet this is going to amass to huge isk farming on a grandscale from everyone who thinks they can earn from eve in safety. sorry to burst you bubble but HULK BPOS OWNers and alot of other t2 bpos are big corperatino soo no oen man is gettign rich off them really poeple educate yourselfs!!!

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2006.08.15 15:03:00 - [52] The problem is that if you buy GTC for ISK directly from CCP, they won't earn any money. While as it is now, they make real money off the original buyer of the GTC. Imagine the scenario if everyone in-game bought their monthly subscription with ISK. Where would the real world money come from? Nowhere, and the game would die. EVE-Files \| EVE-Search \| Monitor this Thread

Maya Rkell Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.08.15 15:07:00 - [53] Arian Snow, Either people farm for ISK for GTC's or they farm for ISK for Ebay. What IS the difference again? Oh, with GTC's CCP gets paid. "What prevents those people from selling GTC they bought for ISK?" So you're saying they buy ISK, they buy GTC and they then sell the GTC? They LOSE cash given current Ebay prices! "No I have created no such thing. Prices for some items have soared, Tech2 namely, you cannot track inflation just by looking at basic goods." Yes, you have. T2 prices for certain items have gone up because the publicity has made cartels and price fixing...highly desireable to a number of people. Inflation is tracked RL, and must be tracked in Eve, by BASE good prices not luxury ones. Missy Mai'la, VALUE. Not quantity. They're trading at ludicrously low prices...they are not making any sort of reasonable profit compared to other games. You utterly understimate the SIZE of the secondary market for any game. There are certainly no more buyers in Eve than before... Defeating Ebay, and defeating IGE/Yantis IS good. If you ban GTC sales, then what happens? Ebay and IGE/Yantis soar. The difference is that Yantis frex will persuage some alliance leaders to sell off the alliance ISK, and that CCP get less cash, and... Avon, and how precisely is that going to stop them being passed? Oh, it dosn't. There are any number of ways to avoid that limit, the ENTIRE thing is a faith-based transaction in the first place, and the seller does NOT know that the "buyer's" account is in fact his own and not someone he's resold to in the first place! (Or that the seller even cares if it is, if he's given 100 accounts to send 1 each to...most will just go ahead and do it...).
Leilani Solaris Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.08.15 15:12:00 - [54] hey if CCP don't want to accept my bank card and won't let me pay via paypal, ISK for GTC is fine with me..
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.08.15 15:13:00 - [55] Originally by: Maya Rkell Avon, and how precisely is that going to stop them being passed? Oh, it dosn't. There are any number of ways to avoid that limit, the ENTIRE thing is a faith-based transaction in the first place, and the seller does NOT know that the "buyer's" account is in fact his own and not someone he's resold to in the first place! (Or that the seller even cares if it is, if he's given 100 accounts to send 1 each to...most will just go ahead and do it...). You have completely misunderstood what I have said. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Down Range	Posted - 2006.08.15 15:14:00 - [56] Originally by: Arian Snow Edited by: Arian Snow on 15/08/2006 02:32:33 Buying Game Time Codes for isk makes no sense at all. All it serves is to undermine the economy in eve, promote farming and macromining and causing inflation! Its plain wrong and it makes no sense whatsoever that CCP allows this, no sense at all! I know thread have been made about this allready, but in my opinion the more the better! NO SENSE I TELL YA' Your simple mind can't grasp the complexity of the situation. Just accept it.
Jerick Ludhowe Arcana Imperii Ltd.	Posted - 2006.08.15 15:17:00 - [57] Originally by: Drayce So how about instead of complaining that isk for GTCs sucks balls give CCP some solutions to the problem. Here is a good one, stop allowing the sale of GTCs for isk. I'm a strong believer that any interaction between rl money and the ingame economy is bad for MMOs. Many people including myself play MMOs to get away from the frustrations one faces in the real world, we want a blank slate in which there is a level playing field once someone joins the game. Everyone follows the same rules and has the same options for sucess ect. When you allow somone to use real life cash to buy ingame isk it throws this ideal out of wack. All of a sudden that level playing field is no longer level if the guy on the other side of the screen has the ability to use real life cash (beyond the subscription) to recover losses ect. For this reason I think ANY option that allows someone to turn real life funds into ingame isk is bad for the game as a whole.
Twilight Moon Minmatar eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.15 15:21:00 - [58] Edited by: Twilight Moon on 15/08/2006 15:22:46 I'm not overly worried about it. While it may help some people get the equipment they want, they wont actually be able to use their shiny new Dreadnaught without a good couple of years of skills. Besides, its so easy to lose items in this game. A Dread costs....what....4 Billion ISK or so? Losing one of those is going to put a large dent in your wallet. Originally by: Kuolematon So by end of this year, supply of GTC's will exceed by far demand of them and we will see prices crashing. 100mil for 90 days, anyone? I'd love that. It'd be free EVE. ...on the other hand using a banana might be a viable alternative.
Maya Rkell Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.08.15 15:39:00 - [59] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 15/08/2006 15:39:23 Originally by: Avon Originally by: Maya Rkell Avon, and how precisely is that going to stop them being passed? Oh, it dosn't. There are any number of ways to avoid that limit, the ENTIRE thing is a faith-based transaction in the first place, and the seller does NOT know that the "buyer's" account is in fact his own and not someone he's resold to in the first place! (Or that the seller even cares if it is, if he's given 100 accounts to send 1 each to...most will just go ahead and do it...). You have completely misunderstood what I have said. And your detailed explination is where, precisely? Jerick Ludhowe, then you just kickstart ebay and IGE/Yantis. Problem...NOT solved. (And CCP are now making less cash too!)
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.15 15:56:00 - [60] Good luck reaching any new conclusions in this thread compared to the already existing hundreds of them. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate

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