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Arian Snow Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.15 02:31:00 - [1] Edited by: Arian Snow on 15/08/2006 02:32:33 Buying Game Time Codes for isk makes no sense at all. All it serves is to undermine the economy in eve, promote farming and macromining and causing inflation! Its plain wrong and it makes no sense whatsoever that CCP allows this, no sense at all! I know thread have been made about this allready, but in my opinion the more the better! NO SENSE I TELL YA' I dont remember I dont recall I dont have memory of anything at all!
Chester McFester	Posted - 2006.08.15 02:35:00 - [2] Looks at his wallet Hmhmhmmm i like it :) Ive got a carrier, a DN and everything i could ever need because of it. TBH i dont know why CCP doesnt just open an isk store. Would make things much more simple since thats pretty much doing anyway. If i want to spend RL money to but isk, i will. And since CCP is so kindly providing me a legal way to do this, i thank them. Hail CCP!
Maya Rkell Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.08.15 02:36:00 - [3] Edited by: Maya Rkell on 15/08/2006 02:37:33 "All it serves is to undermine the economy in eve" How? It does not create or destroy ISK. It has crushed the RL value of the formerly larger Ebay trade by a factor of 12-15 times. "promotes farming and macromining" If anything, it discourages the farmers and macrominers from playing. Their market, Ebay, has crashed to unsustainable profit levels and they have largely moved on to other games. And it has had the MAJOR bonus of not getting IGE or Yantis interested in Eve. Their MO, of persuading corp/alliance leaders to sell corp/alliance funds would be especially disruptive in Eve. "causing inflation" There has, provably, has been no inflation as a result of it. The goods you use to track inflation (basic goods, T1 in this case) have not soared in price. They remain fluctiating quite evenly to mineral price levels. Ebay unchecked tends to cause at least mild inflation, on the other hand. There are plenty of very good reasons to allow it, and plenty of players who pay entirely via it, especially given the degenerating service from pay by cash, and the fact that CCP's own payment processor only takes credit cards and a few debit cards. You're ranting against a chimera which you have created, not the actual situation. Chester McFester, selling ISK directly WOULD be inflationary. Creating ISK from nowhere.
Arkanor Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.08.15 02:37:00 - [4] Extreme up, meet extreme down. Originally by: Ghosthowl WoW = hardcore paladins smashin dat face. Originally by: HippoKing I just cried, you know that?
Drayce Caldari Solitary Forsaken	Posted - 2006.08.15 02:44:00 - [5] So how about instead of complaining that isk for GTCs sucks balls give CCP some solutions to the problem. The reason that it's allowed is to stop the large amount of people that want to purchase ingame money with real money (something that I've never quite understood) from buying off non-CCP related websites. i.e. CCP gets the money as opposed to some third party sweatshop in downtown LA (or wherever they are around the world). Yes, I know and I'm sure that CCP also know that some sweatshops abuse the GTC for isk deal. Sweatshop owner/director/whipmaster buys 100 GTCs with isk that his minions have gained through nefarious macro mining means and then proceeds to sell the GTCs for real life cash on his website/EBay/Trademe/name any other online reselling website So going back to my original statement; how would you solve the issue of people wanting to buy isk with cash? Because if you can answer that, then it's pretty much problem solved on more than one front always remember... Think before you post
Deitre Cibrus Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2006.08.15 03:03:00 - [6] Originally by: Chester McFester Looks at his wallet Hmhmhmmm i like it :) Ive got a carrier, a DN and everything i could ever need because of it. TBH i dont know why CCP doesnt just open an isk store. Would make things much more simple since thats pretty much doing anyway. If i want to spend RL money to but isk, i will. And since CCP is so kindly providing me a legal way to do this, i thank them. Hail CCP! So you've spent over 400 dollars on GTC's.. If not more? ----------- Originally by: Santiago Cortes Please don't derail your own thread. What is this sig missing?
Arian Snow Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.15 03:08:00 - [7] Quote: "All it serves is to undermine the economy in eve" How? It does not create or destroy ISK. It has crushed the RL value of the formerly larger Ebay trade by a factor of 12-15 times. There are no fixed ammount of isk in EVE! "GTC for ISK" promotes farming of isk to pay for your character those isk underminde the economy and creates inflation!!! Its like printing money in RL... its bad, just look at Post WW1 germany! Quote: "promotes farming and macromining" If anything, it discourages the farmers and macrominers from playing. Their market, Ebay, has crashed to unsustainable profit levels and they have largely moved on to other games. And it has had the MAJOR bonus of not getting IGE or Yantis interested in Eve. Their MO, of persuading corp/alliance leaders to sell corp/alliance funds would be especially disruptive in Eve. What prevents those people from selling GTC they bought for ISK? Quote: "causing inflation" There has, provably, has been no inflation as a result of it. The goods you use to track inflation (basic goods, T1 in this case) have not soared in price. They remain fluctiating quite evenly to mineral price levels. Ebay unchecked tends to cause at least mild inflation, on the other hand. There are plenty of very good reasons to allow it, and plenty of players who pay entirely via it, especially given the degenerating service from pay by cash, and the fact that CCP's own payment processor only takes credit cards and a few debit cards. You're ranting against a chimera which you have created, not the actual situation. No I have created no such thing. Prices for some items have soared, Tech2 namely, you cannot track inflation just by looking at basic goods. I dont remember I dont recall I dont have memory of anything at all!
Pesky LaRue Minmatar L.O.S.T. Foundation	Posted - 2006.08.15 03:11:00 - [8] i also don't get why someone would buy ingame money (kinda defeats the purpose and undermines any sense of achievment, but hey, that's just me) but i also don't understand why anyone gets worked up about it. frankly, i think it's kinda cool that CCP endorse this - it's going to go on anyway, them protecting the buyer only serves to help their customer base This message came from the Minmatar Messiah, accept no imitations Pesky LaRue, Minmatar Messiah Bringing Salvation To Your System Soon! ++ PRAY FOR PESKY ++
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.08.15 03:14:00 - [9] Edited by: Dark Shikari on 15/08/2006 03:14:56 GTCs for ISK are an evil. They unbalance the economy by letting those with too much RL cash buy their way to "winning EVE." On the other hand, they destroy eBay and ISK for $ sales, a worse evil, as ISK sales fund farmers. So its the lesser of two evils, really. --[23] Member-- Originally by: DB Preacher The only time BoB's backs are to the wall is when Backdoor Bandit is in local.
Testicular Testes	Posted - 2006.08.15 03:23:00 - [10] Edited by: Testicular Testes on 15/08/2006 03:24:04 Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 15/08/2006 03:14:56 GTCs for ISK are an evil. They unbalance the economy by letting those with too much RL cash buy their way to "winning EVE." On the other hand, they destroy eBay and ISK for $ sales, a worse evil, as ISK sales fund farmers. So its the lesser of two evils, really. ISK does not "win eve", especially not at a rate of 12 USD per 100mil. That's roughly 15 grand for a titan, which by anyones standards is quite an investment. It lets those with jobs trade money for grind, which is a good thing and allows them to keep playing in a somewhat competitive and demanding enviroment. And it lets those without jobs trade playtime for subscriptions, which keeps the playerbase healthy - particularly as these are some of the most likely to be active players. It's pretty much universally good. It might not sit perfectly with the mantra of being able to cripple an opponent economically in-game, but isk alone are irrelevant enough to anyone but the solo player that this isn't a big deal. Particularly as to fund something the size of a PoSwar solely on GTCs would run upwards of 2000 dollars every week (and the demand for GTCs is also not unlimited, keeping a natural cap on the possible income that can be bought).
Arian Snow Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.15 03:34:00 - [11] Edited by: Arian Snow on 15/08/2006 03:36:48 Again, Dont farmers just get GTC for isk then sell those for $ on Ebay then? ... You dont need alot of isk to stay competetive in Eve.. I am a father of small kiddoes and have a demanding job, and I manage just fine. I dont remember I dont recall I dont have memory of anything at all!
Drayce Caldari Solitary Forsaken	Posted - 2006.08.15 03:38:00 - [12] Originally by: Drayce Yes, I know and I'm sure that CCP also know that some sweatshops abuse the GTC for isk deal. Sweatshop owner/director/whipmaster buys 100 GTCs with isk that his minions have gained through nefarious macro mining means and then proceeds to sell the GTCs for real life cash on his website/EBay/Trademe/name any other online reselling website So going back to my original statement; how would you solve the issue of people wanting to buy isk with cash? Because if you can answer that, then it's pretty much problem solved on more than one front Quoting because you seem to have missed my original post always remember... Think before you post
Alessar Kaldorei Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.15 04:07:00 - [13] If anything, allowing the trade of GTCs for ISK levels the playing field between the people that have money and those that don't have as much. People with RL money can easily have (and many do have) several accounts. Since the accounts can and are played all at the same time in a single or several computers by a single person, this gives the people that can fund several accounts an obvious advantage over those that can't afford them. Alts can do pretty much anything you need them to. You can have mining ops all by yourself, without the inconvinience of finding mates to work with, so you can make loads more ISK. You can use them to spy gates, check prices in other regions, reinforce camps, anything. This gives the people that can afford the alts a huge advantage. An advantage far greater than simply changing ISK for RL money. An alt is far more valuable than ISK. Allowing the trade of ISK for GTCs allows the people that wouldn't normally be able to get several accounts to work for them in-game. A little grind, and you can get an alt to make everything easier. Sure, the guy that spends money to get ISK still has an advantage, but now that the guy without money can get an alt, the advantage is much smaller. So, far from tipping the game in favour of the people with money, it tips it in favour of those that don't have it.
Lord Sid Minmatar Lordless	Posted - 2006.08.15 04:10:00 - [14] Edited by: Lord Sid on 15/08/2006 04:12:04 Originally by: Arian Snow Edited by: Arian Snow on 15/08/2006 02:32:33 Buying Game Time Codes for isk makes no sense at all. All it serves is to undermine the economy in eve, promote farming and macromining and causing inflation! Its plain wrong and it makes no sense whatsoever that CCP allows this, no sense at all! I know thread have been made about this allready, but in my opinion the more the better! NO SENSE I TELL YA' We get it, you're poor IRL as well as ingame. /oh was that insensitive?
Moghydin Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2006.08.15 04:13:00 - [15] Every system which allowes RL cash to in-game cash transaction is breaking the game mechanics and encourages farming or macroing. The prices for many T2 items are slowly but steadily going up. And the more inflation there's in game, the more need there is to either join the ISK buyer club or to have an account, solely dedicated to ISK making, and to pay for that account by... GTCs. And don't tell me that GTCs are for ppl with demanding jobs. My impression is that it's for kiddies who actually suck at game, but need to feel uber at any cost - OMG I need godmode, plz more GTCs...
Dahin Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.08.15 04:16:00 - [16] I want to see peoples reactions when they finally meet an enemy that will outspend them in war efforts and win just because of GTC's. I don't say thay isk will win you a war, but it's more than enough to tip the balance on many occasions. There are many people out there with silly amounts of $, and they are given a way to project that power in the game. When you see that, you realize this is no longer a game. And don't even go saying "noone would spend loads of $ for isk", because it has both happened in many occasions and as you all know by now eve can turn into a mania for some people. As people can spend thousands of $ for a ski resort week, they can easily spend that much money (if they easily afford it) for bbq'ing you in eve.
Lorth Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.08.15 04:18:00 - [17] Well like it or not, buying isk for RL cash is going to happen. CCP can make a profit from it, or they can not. I don't like it more then any one else, but its going to happen regardless, and I don't think CCP can do much to stop the illegal transactions from happening. The only really bad thing is, GTC have made it cheaper to buy isk then the illegal market was selling it for.
Arian Snow Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.15 04:20:00 - [18] We get it, you're poor IRL as well as ingame. /oh was that insensitive? No no not at all ... I just dont like to confuse RL with the game ... make whatever conclusions you will about my RL economy it will not slight me i the least! Isk for Dollars, is what GTC for Isk is... its that simple really. I dont like what it does for gameplay It has never been a good thing in any mmorpg to use RL money as currency which is what this really is about. I dont remember I dont recall I dont have memory of anything at all!
Lord Sid Minmatar Lordless	Posted - 2006.08.15 04:22:00 - [19] Originally by: Dahin I want to see peoples reactions when they finally meet an enemy that will outspend them in war efforts and win just because of GTC's. I don't say thay isk will win you a war, but it's more than enough to tip the balance on many occasions. There are many people out there with silly amounts of $, and they are given a way to project that power in the game. When you see that, you realize this is no longer a game. And don't even go saying "noone would spend loads of $ for isk", because it has both happened in many occasions and as you all know by now eve can turn into a mania for some people. As people can spend thousands of $ for a ski resort week, they can easily spend that much money (if they easily afford it) for bbq'ing you in eve. when I played shadowbane an opposing guild was using a known dupe to fund themselves. Even with unlimited resources we still beat them into a pulp and took over the server.
DuckM4n Vo	Posted - 2006.08.15 04:26:00 - [20] To the OP, if you are going to make assertions back them up!
Gierling Gallente Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.08.15 04:40:00 - [21] Actually they don't sell the isk on Ebay anymore. The recent method is that they run complexes or macro for isk, then they take that isk to buy a GTC off the forum. Then they take it and place it on a third party website (laundering) and sell that GTC for money at CCP's rate. Hence the recent warnings to use only retailers that CCP links to directly. Its a rather ingenious method although it does tend to contribute to the downfall of the game, seeing as these players have a huge incentive to keep the isk rolling and resort to all sorts of foul tactics and methods to keep others from stopping them. Its just no fun to play eve against someone who needs the game to pay his rent, his motivation is much greater then mine.
Arian Snow Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.15 04:47:00 - [22] Originally by: Dahin I want to see peoples reactions when they finally meet an enemy that will outspend them in war efforts and win just because of GTC's. I don't say thay isk will win you a war, but it's more than enough to tip the balance on many occasions. There are many people out there with silly amounts of $, and they are given a way to project that power in the game. When you see that, you realize this is no longer a game. And don't even go saying "noone would spend loads of $ for isk", because it has both happened in many occasions and as you all know by now eve can turn into a mania for some people. As people can spend thousands of $ for a ski resort week, they can easily spend that much money (if they easily afford it) for bbq'ing you in eve. You have it right! My point exactly. By endorsing isk for GTC (i.e dollars) you also promote it. One day it can have the effect that CCP will have to change the game mechanics due to this, effectively taking the 'play' out of the game. I dont remember I dont recall I dont have memory of anything at all!
Dr Happy	Posted - 2006.08.15 04:48:00 - [23] If theyr didn't sell GTc's for isk I would not be able to play how fare it that :-\
Arian Snow Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.15 04:49:00 - [24] Edited by: Arian Snow on 15/08/2006 04:54:59 Originally by: DuckM4n Vo To the OP, if you are going to make assertions back them up! If you cared to read my posts you will see that there is plenty of resoning to my claims! reasoning as in sense! Also in this game you can fly a frigate and be a deadly adversary if you bothered to gang up. So the excuse some people make that they need to pay dollars for isk doesnt hold up. You dont need 300million isk ships! Those should be a reward for those putting an effort into actually playing the game (I dont own any imo.) I dont remember I dont recall I dont have memory of anything at all!
Vertical Amarr	Posted - 2006.08.15 05:01:00 - [25] sense? It makes huge sense to me not to have real cash for a online game! period
Arian Snow Minmatar	Posted - 2006.08.15 05:08:00 - [26] If you playing the game selling isk for dollars is ruining it then I have no sympathy. There are other games to play online with no monthly fee's I.e Guildwars... So dont whine to me about the monthly fee. I dont remember I dont recall I dont have memory of anything at all!
Kuolematon Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.08.15 05:20:00 - [27] Those nbar PvP players always says that EVE is like real life. You don't go to dark alley and expect to get away safely. Most of times you get but sometimes you will burn yourself. Now, this ISK buying is another real life reflected to game world. People who has money to buy virtual money, will do it just because "they can" and because it shows that as in real life, in virtual life rich people gets it more easier. Stop complaining. GTC is win-win situation regardless of money laundry of chinese sweatshops. CCP gets players to play and people who dosen't have that much cash to pay for their accounts, can still enjoy their "free game". Your "free game" is still paid by someone else. Unnerf Amarr! "Just because you can utterly ruin another player's game doesn't mean that you must."
Kaylana Syi Minmatar The Nest	Posted - 2006.08.15 05:27:00 - [28] Originally by: Maya Rkell Edited by: Maya Rkell on 15/08/2006 02:37:33 "All it serves is to undermine the economy in eve" How? It does not create or destroy ISK. It has crushed the RL value of the formerly larger Ebay trade by a factor of 12-15 times. "promotes farming and macromining" If anything, it discourages the farmers and macrominers from playing. Their market, Ebay, has crashed to unsustainable profit levels and they have largely moved on to other games. And it has had the MAJOR bonus of not getting IGE or Yantis interested in Eve. Their MO, of persuading corp/alliance leaders to sell corp/alliance funds would be especially disruptive in Eve. "causing inflation" There has, provably, has been no inflation as a result of it. The goods you use to track inflation (basic goods, T1 in this case) have not soared in price. They remain fluctiating quite evenly to mineral price levels. Ebay unchecked tends to cause at least mild inflation, on the other hand. There are plenty of very good reasons to allow it, and plenty of players who pay entirely via it, especially given the degenerating service from pay by cash, and the fact that CCP's own payment processor only takes credit cards and a few debit cards. You're ranting against a chimera which you have created, not the actual situation. Chester McFester, selling ISK directly WOULD be inflationary. Creating ISK from nowhere. /agree 100% Team Minmatar Carriers need Clone Vats
Missy Mai'la	Posted - 2006.08.15 05:55:00 - [29] Originally by: Maya Rkell Edited by: Maya Rkell on 15/08/2006 02:37:33 "All it serves is to undermine the economy in eve" How? It does not create or destroy ISK. It has crushed the RL value of the formerly larger Ebay trade by a factor of 12-15 times. "promotes farming and macromining" If anything, it discourages the farmers and macrominers from playing. Their market, Ebay, has crashed to unsustainable profit levels and they have largely moved on to other games. And it has had the MAJOR bonus of not getting IGE or Yantis interested in Eve. Their MO, of persuading corp/alliance leaders to sell corp/alliance funds would be especially disruptive in Eve. "causing inflation" There has, provably, has been no inflation as a result of it. The goods you use to track inflation (basic goods, T1 in this case) have not soared in price. They remain fluctiating quite evenly to mineral price levels. Ebay unchecked tends to cause at least mild inflation, on the other hand. There are plenty of very good reasons to allow it, and plenty of players who pay entirely via it, especially given the degenerating service from pay by cash, and the fact that CCP's own payment processor only takes credit cards and a few debit cards. You're ranting against a chimera which you have created, not the actual situation. Chester McFester, selling ISK directly WOULD be inflationary. Creating ISK from nowhere. What is your obsession with ebay, every single thread about this, in you come, first words are "it has crushed ebay" When infact ebay market is still there going strong it would appear, now we just have a lot more buyers and overall the RMT situation is far out of control, not just because of isk sellers, but due to all the people now buying timecodes and selling them for isk. Is your obsession with trying to defeat the ebay market so huge that you've lost all care for the good of the game?
Missy Mai'la	Posted - 2006.08.15 06:05:00 - [30] Originally by: Arian Snow Edited by: Arian Snow on 15/08/2006 03:36:48 Again, Dont farmers just get GTC for isk then sell those for $ on Ebay then? ... You dont need alot of isk to stay competetive in Eve.. I am a father of small kiddoes and have a demanding job, and I manage just fine. Indeed, i envy those t2 bpo owners, imagine owning a hulk bpo, 3b profit per week, buy 10x 90 day timecodes from the forums with that 3b, sell the timecodes on ebay for over ú20 each, and there you have it, a profit of over ú200 a week and its endorsed by ccp. In my opinion this will encourage more isk farming also, because many players will see that they can now get real money for there isk by using this buy timecode with isk, sell timecode for real money technique, and not have the worry of being banned by ccp. In the long run, i bet this is going to amass to huge isk farming on a grandscale from everyone who thinks they can earn from eve in safety.

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