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roadrage639 Caldari THE SHADOWS ASSASSINS	Posted - 2006.08.15 09:49:00 - [1] Hi. What are instas? Are they legal in EVE? How do you make them? road
Dukath	Posted - 2006.08.15 09:53:00 - [2] Instas are a pseudo-exploit that unfortunately have not been removed by the devs. I will not tell you how to make them cause i consider them bad for the game and I refuse to use them myself. Of course some exploit apologists will say they are perfectly ok, i guess its up to you to decide if you want to cheat and play it easy or play the game as its supposed to be and refuse to use instas
roadrage639 Caldari THE SHADOWS ASSASSINS	Posted - 2006.08.15 09:55:00 - [3] OK thanks :P
robacz Gallente	Posted - 2006.08.15 10:06:00 - [4] Read all info here: http://elroycruise.free.fr/bookieguide.html Instas are legal, they are bookmarks placed on right place next to gate or station. If you jump to them, you are close to gate/station so you can jump/dock immediately without usual 15km approach. You can buy sets for each region, just look around for some trusted BM sellers. ___________ Buying/Selling: Implants, Cargo Expanders and more
Megan Ryder VentureCorp CORE.	Posted - 2006.08.15 10:16:00 - [5] when you create a bookmark to an object, the closest you can warp to it is 15km. so instead of bookmarking the object itself, fly past the object in straight line for 15km, and bookmark that spot in space. When you warp to that at 15km you will arrive on the object. in practice, when making gate to gate bookmarks, you should bookmark ~10km past to allow for your deceleration out of warp. the type of gate (long+thin vs short+fat), and the direction you come from can affect the distance to fly past by +/-2km. try it and see. always test your bms before moving something expensive through. flying past some objects can be tricky, try to go as close as possible to the object without actually hitting it and bumping off. remeber to name your bm's sensibly. as you are flying past an object, where the bm is from is as important as where it goes... gate A gate B gate C given 3 gates in a line, as above, the bm FROM A TO B will not work from gate C. it will, infact, leave you further from the gate than 15km hope that makes sense, if not, it should point you in the right direction...
Mandrake Knight Gallente Euphoria Released	Posted - 2006.08.15 12:58:00 - [6] instas are perfectly legal and not a 'pseudo exploit'. It's a convenient way to navigate that is within game mechanics.
Baldour Ngarr Artemis Rising	Posted - 2006.08.15 13:02:00 - [7] Originally by: Mandrake Knight instas are perfectly legal and not a 'pseudo exploit'. It's a convenient way to navigate that is within game mechanics. Then why have the developers said that it was never intended for people to use them this way? Are they liars? ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Mandrake Knight Gallente Euphoria Released	Posted - 2006.08.15 13:04:00 - [8] Edited by: Mandrake Knight on 15/08/2006 13:04:58 Just because something is used as not intended does not mean its an exploit. By that rationale the t2 producers must be 'psuedo exploiting' too then amirite?
Baldour Ngarr Artemis Rising	Posted - 2006.08.15 13:17:00 - [9] Originally by: Mandrake Knight Edited by: Mandrake Knight on 15/08/2006 13:04:58 Just because something is used as not intended does not mean its an exploit. Ah. You have some new definition of the word "exploit" that nobody else has ever used. Fair enough. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Trojanman190 Caldari Everlasting Impact	Posted - 2006.08.15 13:20:00 - [10] Instas are great. I dont see what the fuss is about with them. People using instas to break through gatecamps? Maybe you should do something else to pvp...
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.08.15 13:23:00 - [11] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Mandrake Knight Edited by: Mandrake Knight on 15/08/2006 13:04:58 Just because something is used as not intended does not mean its an exploit. Ah. You have some new definition of the word "exploit" that nobody else has ever used. Fair enough. This bloke is clearly right ^ If the bookmarking system was never intended to be used as a way of safe and quicker traveling. And the clever little chaps in eve realised they could then they would quite clearly be "exploiting the game mechanic for a purpose it was not intended" He's right! your wrong, End of. Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Mandrake Knight Gallente Euphoria Released	Posted - 2006.08.15 14:12:00 - [12] Edited by: Mandrake Knight on 15/08/2006 14:12:22 Ok then let me ask you this. Has anyone official said instas are an exploit? Is it illegal to possess, buy, sell, trade, find, or create them in any way shape or form? Is it a bannable or suspendable offense? No? I didnt think so. It's not an exploit.
Baldour Ngarr Artemis Rising	Posted - 2006.08.15 14:15:00 - [13] Originally by: Mandrake Knight Edited by: Mandrake Knight on 15/08/2006 14:12:22 Ok then let me ask you this. Has anyone official said instas are an exploit? Is it illegal to possess, buy, sell, trade, find, or create them in any way shape or form? Is it a bannable or suspendable offense? No? I didnt think so. It's not an exploit. Hence the phrase "pseudo exploit." Making one statement, and then proving a completely different statement, does not validate your position. And for reference, devs have said repeatedly that instajump bookmarks were never intended, shouldn't have been allowed, and they've spent the last three years trying to find a way to eliminate them without leaving the player base in total uproar. ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Mandrake Knight Gallente Euphoria Released	Posted - 2006.08.15 14:18:00 - [14] yeah well my first point was a little mis-worded. If you wouldn't have quoted me on it I would have fixed it. My point is that this thread is telling this noob that it's a pseudo exploit to discourage him and I wanted to clarify that it is NOT an exploit.
DukDodgerz	Posted - 2006.08.15 14:32:00 - [15] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Mandrake Knight Edited by: Mandrake Knight on 15/08/2006 13:04:58 Just because something is used as not intended does not mean its an exploit. Ah. You have some new definition of the word "exploit" that nobody else has ever used. Fair enough. This bloke is clearly right ^ If the bookmarking system was never intended to be used as a way of safe and quicker traveling. And the clever little chaps in eve realised they could then they would quite clearly be "exploiting the game mechanic for a purpose it was not intended" He's right! your wrong, End of. Alliaanna hmmm bms.. a.k.a. instas....faster to get from a->b by placing you near the spot you wanted as you come out of warp (to a can, astroid, safe spot...) ... sure sounds like instas are doing exactly what they are intended to me...and the grief play pvper-wannabees are getting their panties in a knot because being a criminal is not easy as pressing the "I WIN" button. FRODO HAS FAILED; BUSH HAS THE RING!!! The HippoKing spots a new post
Baldour Ngarr Artemis Rising	Posted - 2006.08.15 14:35:00 - [16] Originally by: DukDodgerz hmmm bms.. a.k.a. instas....faster to get from a->b by placing you near the spot you wanted as you come out of warp (to a can, astroid, safe spot...) ... sure sounds like instas are doing exactly what they are intended to me... ...it doesn't to the game developers. Whose opinion do you think is more important, yours or theirs? ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
DukDodgerz	Posted - 2006.08.15 14:39:00 - [17] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: DukDodgerz hmmm bms.. a.k.a. instas....faster to get from a->b by placing you near the spot you wanted as you come out of warp (to a can, astroid, safe spot...) ... sure sounds like instas are doing exactly what they are intended to me... ...it doesn't to the game developers. Whose opinion do you think is more important, yours or theirs? I have the proof that OUR opinon as customers matters more, or haven't you noticed, that instas are still in the game? (dee dee dee) FRODO HAS FAILED; BUSH HAS THE RING!!! The HippoKing spots a new post
voxen Es and Whizz	Posted - 2006.08.15 14:40:00 - [18] Edited by: voxen on 15/08/2006 14:40:59 Originally by: someone ...it doesn't to the game developers. Whose opinion do you think is more important, yours or theirs? you sound... like a dev spokesman...?
Baldour Ngarr Artemis Rising	Posted - 2006.08.15 14:40:00 - [19] Originally by: DukDodgerz I have the proof that OUR opinon as customers matters more, or haven't you noticed, that instas are still in the game? (dee dee dee) And yet you haven't noticed that the devs have been saying for three years they don't like them there, and intend to remove them as soon as they've come up with a better system. Don't notice much, do you? ________________________________________________ "I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked."
Jobie Thickburger Gallente Miner Guide to the Galaxy	Posted - 2006.08.15 14:41:00 - [20] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: Mandrake Knight Edited by: Mandrake Knight on 15/08/2006 14:12:22 Ok then let me ask you this. Has anyone official said instas are an exploit? Is it illegal to possess, buy, sell, trade, find, or create them in any way shape or form? Is it a bannable or suspendable offense? No? I didnt think so. It's not an exploit. Hence the phrase "pseudo exploit." Making one statement, and then proving a completely different statement, does not validate your position. And for reference, devs have said repeatedly that instajump bookmarks were never intended, shouldn't have been allowed, and they've spent the last three years trying to find a way to eliminate them without leaving the player base in total uproar. Just wanna make sure you had the right definition of Pseudo as well... Originally by: dictionary.com False or counterfeit; fake. Instas are Not Exploits. Some people just THINK that they are, mainly because they don't like them. Personally, Under this basis, Sniping out of range of Sentry guns is an Exploit too! CCP NERF THE SNIPERS!.... So you have to work to catch your dinner, Eh, life was never ment to be easy. TO the OP, Instas from Gate to gate are easy. Warp Normally to the gate, Fly STRAIT ~13km, Place bookmark. For Stations, fly on top of the station, BM, Done For Cans, BM a item/place past where you want to be, Then warp back to starting point, and then return to the BM, it should be where you want to drop your can at. CEO - MGTTG
Jim McGregor Caldari	Posted - 2006.08.15 14:43:00 - [21] Exploits... I think several people in this thread needs to check out the meaning of that word. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Del369 Caldari Office linebackers Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.08.15 14:45:00 - [22] instas 4tw, using instas means you fly safely, and as an added bonus you get all the poor ickle piwates whining on the forums cos they can't gank you, ofc they all use them to, but hey.......... for teh insta whiners, 1 word BUBBLE I want to die quietly in my sleep just like my dear old grandma, and not screaming in terror like her passengers!!
Brastagi Caldari g guild	Posted - 2006.08.15 15:09:00 - [23] Well sometimes it goes like this (in double standard aka hypocrite) It's not ok when they use it. Because you never get a lock on them when they running to the safety of station or jumpgate. <teh rabble from pirate and pvper who camped jumpgate and station> -or- Haha! I have instas sucker! Bite my dust! <sadly you see some pirate use them also> Mostly people relate instas with the fairness of PvP. But people who travel in slow ship found it as a much better option for jumping between systems (boating in 150 km/s anyone?). For ganksquad, instas is still a mean of getting your battleships to get into a hotspot in other system ASAP with coordinated timing or get everyman out should the situation became too hostile. You see that alot in 0.0 and empire war for fleet battle. But of course 0.0 has its advantage for gate camper to set up multiple warpbubble to stop those instas. --------- Don't quote teh monkeh!
Maya Rkell Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.08.15 15:44:00 - [24] roadrage639, hi, Dukath is putting foward an extreme, unpopular and highly biased view. An exploit is, quite specifically, something the GM's or devs have called so and is bannable. Hence, instas are not in any way, shape or form an exploit. Origionally, they were an unintended conseqence of some out-of-the-box thinging. Over two years later, with many ships and large aspects of gameplay based on them, they are a core game system. They are not exploits, they are not cheats and they are not bad. If they should be changed is a different debate entirely, and for example I am in favour of changing them (to a global 0 km warp and adding multiple new ways for PvPers to catch enemy ships) without believing they are an exploit, cheat or bad beyond the database issues they cause.
Dukath	Posted - 2006.08.15 15:58:00 - [25] And then you have Maja Rkells view, the other extreme of wanting the game to completely stagnate, block any possible improvement and criticise every possible solution without ever giving a solution himself. For me personally they are an exploit, they are definitely bad and don't let maja rkell fool you. My view is not near as unpopular as he likes to make out. Just look around in threads where he posts. All his views are disliked by players who have played this game a long time and know what they talk about.
Maya Rkell Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.08.15 16:05:00 - [26] And yes, we have the Dukath view which is to assign drastic negative charaxcteristics to anyone who dares to disagree with them. I agree with as many threads as I disagree with, I come up with answers which Dukath happens to disagree with in others. Virtually everyone who is resonable on balance issues agrees with me sooner or later, even Avon (heya!). But...not you. Your little clique of old players dislikes me, not my ideas, yes. More widely? No, you're entirely incorrect.
Mandrake Knight Gallente Euphoria Released	Posted - 2006.08.15 16:15:00 - [27] Originally by: Dukath For me personally they are an exploit, they are definitely bad... The OP was asking for factual information, and here you are giving your opinion. Instead of trying to hinder uninformed players with your twisted logic, why not just go to the next thread?
Farrellus Cameron Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2006.08.15 17:20:00 - [28] I love my instas. They are so warm and furry I just want to hug them all day long. I gave them each their own cute little name and their own little beds and I make sure they never feel neglected. AND I'LL CUT ANYONE'S THROAT WHO TRIES TO TAKE THEM AWAY FROM ME! Sorry. Got a little out of hand there. Anyways, I have an idea. Why don't the people who don't like instas stop using them out of protest? That would be SWELL. You could even form a group, like PETI (People for the Ethical Treatment of Instas). P.S. a lot of you guys are WAY too serious.
DukDodgerz	Posted - 2006.08.15 18:43:00 - [29] Originally by: Baldour Ngarr Originally by: DukDodgerz I have the proof that OUR opinon as customers matters more, or haven't you noticed, that instas are still in the game? (dee dee dee) And yet you haven't noticed that the devs have been saying for three years they don't like them there, and intend to remove them as soon as they've come up with a better system. Don't notice much, do you? Did I say that I hadn't noticed them??? NO I DID NOT! I said they pay attention to US the CUSTOMERs as being MORE IMPORTANT. We as customers are more important to CCP then even the DEV's opionion on an unforseen use of an ingame tool. Even a DEV would agree that it is in CCP's best interest to NOT remove insta's at this time, since they have no means to replace them or the reasoning behind their usage. (and IIRC the DEVs even say so...) No go find someone elses post to twist and skew with troll spew. FRODO HAS FAILED; BUSH HAS THE RING!!! The HippoKing spots a new post
DukDodgerz	Posted - 2006.08.15 18:54:00 - [30] Originally by: Dukath And then you have Maja Rkells view, the other extreme of wanting the game to completely stagnate, block any possible improvement and criticise every possible solution without ever giving a solution himself. For me personally they are an exploit, they are definitely bad and don't let maja rkell fool you. My view is not near as unpopular as he likes to make out. Just look around in threads where he posts. All his views are disliked by players who have played this game a long time and know what they talk about. You offer nothing constructive, only extremely biased OPINIONS without proof or references. You should reference these other players that agree with you, because we have yet to see one. on second thought...since you are a just troll, why should anyone bother listening to your dribbling rants? Instas are working just as the BM system was designed to do. Makes travel faster, hauling/mining/ratting are all done faster due to less travel time. This is a good thing for all players. If you can't think of how to counter them as far as PVP (done daily in 0.0 space) then you should get with others that have a few more brain cells then you have. FRODO HAS FAILED; BUSH HAS THE RING!!! The HippoKing spots a new post

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